As anyone tried the new Axminster chucks at Lee Valley? Made in the UK and they look very nice. I am leaning toward a Vicmarc VM120 but checking out the Axminster Evolution. Would appreciate any info.
Doug
Doug
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Axminster chucks at Lee Valley?
- Thread starter Douglas Ladendorf
- Start date
I have bought the sk100. Well made and finished.
My interest was for the O'Donnell Spigot Jaws, also well made and versatile.
My interest was for the O'Donnell Spigot Jaws, also well made and versatile.
I also have the Clubman SX100 and they are now stainless steel and are very well made. I have a few of the old clubman chucks and although they were not stainless steel they are very well made also.
I am UK based and use Axminster chucks. I would highly recommend them. The new Evolution is my every day chuck and works very sweetly. Great range of jaws available too.
Richard
Richard
Thanks all. They do look like quality chucks. The direct mount seems to be extra low profile. I had noticed the O'Donnell jaws and thought they looked interesting.
Doug
Doug
I have in all 5 Axminster Chucks including the Evolution Chucks all are well engineered.
The O'Donell Jaws are my favourite.
The thing I like most about the Chuck System is that you can purchase the carrier jaws, this allows you to have each set of jaws always attached to a set of carrier jaws so they can be changed in seconds.
Looking at the prices in Canada they appear to be something like 23% cheaper, but not sure if the LV price has to be adjusted for Tax?
Richard
The O'Donell Jaws are my favourite.
The thing I like most about the Chuck System is that you can purchase the carrier jaws, this allows you to have each set of jaws always attached to a set of carrier jaws so they can be changed in seconds.
Looking at the prices in Canada they appear to be something like 23% cheaper, but not sure if the LV price has to be adjusted for Tax?
Richard
Stainless Steel Chucks
I don't know how I feel about SST chucks. Stainless steels are generally soft and gall easily.
They call it an improvement because they can machine closer without the imperfection of chrome plating.
They are correct that chroming is an imperfect albeit quite precise science. Vapor deposition plating is very precise compared to the kind of chroming done for auto bumpers and restoration work, but I'll take them at their word on this.
However The whole idea of making a chuck from a soft material like SST troubled me.
I spent about 20 years in machine shops and tool rooms so I've cut a lot of different steels & done a considerable amount of heat treating and As a general rule one never uses a Stainless steel where one wants a nice hard gall resistant bearing surface material. Cast iron is better.
There are precipitation hardening SSTs (call PH series) and 400 series which are also Hardenable in a reducing atmosphere, But none will hold a knife edge or get as hard as a good alloy tool steel.
So I Wrote Axminster a query and they answered.
They make their chucks from:
Rockwell B is the soft scale.
303 is not one of the stainless steels that can be hardened. It can be work hardened at the surface but work hardening is not reliable and sets up cracks. 95 on the B scale is pretty much what it is when you buy the metal from the supplier as raw stock
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MQ303H
So it's not hardened.
Plus 303 tends to spall and gall
There are coatings that can be applied to alleviate these conditions
https://www.nickelinstitute.org/~/M...lingCharacteristicsofStainlessSteel_9006_.pdf
but when you apply a high loading to SST parts and cause the pieces to move against each other the result is usually galling.
I think some kind of lube in the ways and on the scroll is definitely in order when using a stainless steel chuck.
If one is confronted with a lot of corrosion this may be a great material for a chuck. Otherwise I dunno.
As an aside and by way of legitimizing the material choice a little: Machine shops use mere cast iron (preferably Meehanite) chucks for all manner of high precision hi energy turning and they last - - well - - I have some that are about 80 years old and as precise and reliable as the day they were made. The Jaws are hardened. The difference of course is that these chucks exist bathed in oil and grease all the time.
Which all caused me to wonder what steel my Vicmark is made from and whether it is hardened. So I wrote 'em a letter and inquired. Haven't heard back yet. Normally I'd take a file to a steel to test the hardness (an old toolmaker's trick), but these are chromed and normally I'd take a steel sample to the grinder with the lights out to see what alloy it might be but I ain't grinding on my chucks.
If some one asked me what steel I'd prefer, I'd default to 4140 for the scroll, the body, and the jaws; heat treated of course. I'd be happily surprised ( shocked too) if any one is making 'em that way.
Vicmark is making them from K105 Steel and nickel plating not chrome
I don't know how I feel about SST chucks. Stainless steels are generally soft and gall easily.
They call it an improvement because they can machine closer without the imperfection of chrome plating.
They are correct that chroming is an imperfect albeit quite precise science. Vapor deposition plating is very precise compared to the kind of chroming done for auto bumpers and restoration work, but I'll take them at their word on this.
However The whole idea of making a chuck from a soft material like SST troubled me.
I spent about 20 years in machine shops and tool rooms so I've cut a lot of different steels & done a considerable amount of heat treating and As a general rule one never uses a Stainless steel where one wants a nice hard gall resistant bearing surface material. Cast iron is better.
There are precipitation hardening SSTs (call PH series) and 400 series which are also Hardenable in a reducing atmosphere, But none will hold a knife edge or get as hard as a good alloy tool steel.
So I Wrote Axminster a query and they answered.
They make their chucks from:
Rockwell B is the soft scale.
303 is not one of the stainless steels that can be hardened. It can be work hardened at the surface but work hardening is not reliable and sets up cracks. 95 on the B scale is pretty much what it is when you buy the metal from the supplier as raw stock
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MQ303H
So it's not hardened.
Plus 303 tends to spall and gall
There are coatings that can be applied to alleviate these conditions
https://www.nickelinstitute.org/~/M...lingCharacteristicsofStainlessSteel_9006_.pdf
but when you apply a high loading to SST parts and cause the pieces to move against each other the result is usually galling.
I think some kind of lube in the ways and on the scroll is definitely in order when using a stainless steel chuck.
If one is confronted with a lot of corrosion this may be a great material for a chuck. Otherwise I dunno.
As an aside and by way of legitimizing the material choice a little: Machine shops use mere cast iron (preferably Meehanite) chucks for all manner of high precision hi energy turning and they last - - well - - I have some that are about 80 years old and as precise and reliable as the day they were made. The Jaws are hardened. The difference of course is that these chucks exist bathed in oil and grease all the time.
Which all caused me to wonder what steel my Vicmark is made from and whether it is hardened. So I wrote 'em a letter and inquired. Haven't heard back yet. Normally I'd take a file to a steel to test the hardness (an old toolmaker's trick), but these are chromed and normally I'd take a steel sample to the grinder with the lights out to see what alloy it might be but I ain't grinding on my chucks.
If some one asked me what steel I'd prefer, I'd default to 4140 for the scroll, the body, and the jaws; heat treated of course. I'd be happily surprised ( shocked too) if any one is making 'em that way.
Vicmark is making them from K105 Steel and nickel plating not chrome
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Great info Raul. I've wondered about stainless myself. Too bad the vendors don't provide a that data. I'm interested to hear what Vicmarc says. I ended up finding a VM 120 lightly used.
Doug
Doug
SS Chuck
Being a bit of a metal geek myself, I can't help but agree with Raul McCai.
The information is spot on.
I would hope that they use a harder steel than stainless in the scroll and contact points for the scroll.
I see the value in the body being stainless as I turn a lot of wet and tannic woods.
But Raul is correct in the ease at which standard SS galls.
Maybe someone will make one from inconel or hastalloy, then we could have a SUPER-CHUCK.
Being a bit of a metal geek myself, I can't help but agree with Raul McCai.
The information is spot on.
I would hope that they use a harder steel than stainless in the scroll and contact points for the scroll.
I see the value in the body being stainless as I turn a lot of wet and tannic woods.
But Raul is correct in the ease at which standard SS galls.
Maybe someone will make one from inconel or hastalloy, then we could have a SUPER-CHUCK.
I don't know much about metal and I don't know what spall or gall is, but I can't help thinking you might be over analysing the metal point a little. I've used the Evolution for over 2 years daily in my professional workshop and it has shown no problems at all. The scroll and the bit where the key goes in are definitely different metals to the body but I don't know what. The stainless steel body has a few slight marks around the keg hole where I have slipped or missed with the key, but otherwise it's been great.
Hope this helps
Richard
Hope this helps
Richard
I'm not as technical as you guys, but suspect that SS is used more for marketing reasons than engineering.
If someone spends $200-400 on a chuck, they want it to look good (unstained) for cosmetic reasons and hence interpret that as desirable.
And I suspect that in most cases, the SS is , "good enough" functionally.
My chucks are Oneway Strongholds, not sure what grade of steel the jaws and components are, but definitely not stainless. They do stain, and do rust - when I've left a wet piece on the chuck for a week.
However that bit of surface rust cleans off easily and has never affected functionality. Admittedly they do not look "new" and have splotches.
Personally, I don't care - they work.
Over the years I've acquired (and use) lots of antique machines. Many have been neglected for years, some sat out in the rain, snow, etc for years.
Almost all have gone through conditions that most people here would not dream of subjecting their lathes to.
All have various grades of steel, cast etc, but none of the components are stainless.
When I initially take them apart for restoration, I'm often shocked how little rust or functional damage there is...and that on machines that over 100 years old and have often had a tough life.
So while my observations are far from scientific (or was well grounded in engineering as the comments above) its my opinion that for most of our functional needs, SS is not needed or the best choice. But it is desirable for cosmetic/marketing reasons. 🙂
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