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Ash and Mountain Ash........

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
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I've turned plenty of Ash bowls, but I don't believe I've ever turned any of the Mountain Ash variety. For those of you who have turned both, can you tell me how one compares to the other? Turning and finishing characteristics. Are they pretty much the same thing?

thanks

ooc
 
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Odie,

I have only turned kiln dried ash and sopping wet mountain ash, so a direct comparison isnt possible for me. What I can say is that the green mountain ash turned beautifully with the possible exception of some endgrain tearout - in retrospect that was likely my fault as I was doing an intial roughout and wasnt as concerned with surface finish as I could have been.

Something else that I have noticed is that it seems to move quite a lot when drying, but I think that is the nature of ash in general, is it not?

As for the finishing, the roughouts are still waiting final turning as my chuck is awaiting pickup at my woodturning store after my run in with a bad batch of Oneway anti-rust coating.
 
Greg Keddy said:
Odie,

I have only turned kiln dried ash and sopping wet mountain ash, so a direct comparison isnt possible for me. What I can say is that the green mountain ash turned beautifully with the possible exception of some endgrain tearout - in retrospect that was likely my fault as I was doing an intial roughout and wasnt as concerned with surface finish as I could have been.

Something else that I have noticed is that it seems to move quite a lot when drying, but I think that is the nature of ash in general, is it not?

As for the finishing, the roughouts are still waiting final turning as my chuck is awaiting pickup at my woodturning store after my run in with a bad batch of Oneway anti-rust coating.
Click to expand...

As for White Ash, or regular Ash, it would be hard for me to say it's a general fact that there will be a lot of warp during seasoning. I think it would depend on how much moisture content there is at the time it was roughed, AND the grain pattern of each individual bowl block, AND the generalized shape the turner is shooting for. I've had Ash roughed bowls that have warped quite a bit.......and others that have warped little to none. The closer to stabilization the MC is, I'd say the less warp it will have during seasoning.....that, I think can be considered a generally accepted pattern of what to expect.

Some kiln dried Ash that is in the 6-8 percent MC range will not have much warp at all, if any.....but, these I generally don't bother with a seasoning process anyway.

ooc

more responses?
 
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mt ash/vs ash

This is not a botanist speaking!!!!!. But they seem to be completely different. I have a dying Mt ash in my back yard (and have turned other MA from 3-4 different sources the last 10 years) . These are ?? ornamental trees and don't grow that tall.. It has red berries and small pinately compound leaves. Bark is smooth. It is closed grain (vs open grain of reg ash). My mt ash spalts nicely. The crotch figure spalted can be stunning and I frankly have a hard time telling it from spalted crab apple.
I like to turn Mt ash when it is quite dry to ease sanding. I sometimes have the same problem sanding it as cedar. It seemed to take finish unevenly so I use 2 coats of sanding sealer. It is soft wood, and sanding marks show up. Regular ash is much easier with its open graininess breaking up the sanding marks. I just applied finish today on a mt ash small bowl . I have turned a 10x3" green (not as in wet) ash as well the last 2 weeks, and am in the process of applying finish to that as well, so can compare side by side. The reg ash will have palpable annular rings when it dries-not so with Mt A. Wonder why Mt ash has been named so?? I have a "stash" of many small pieces crotch pieces that I have been spalting the last 2 years . Cut them up about 2 months ago and will be turning more this winter. If you want to "experiment" before "buying" some, I'd be happy to send you a couple of pieces. Gretch
 
Odie

Have turned both. I find that there is not that much difference. Have brought back Colorado Ash to down here in the swamp land and have turned Ash from down here. I like both. I know that this really doesn't answer your question.

Gary:cool2:
 
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Gretch Flo said:
This is not a botanist speaking!!!!!. But they seem to be completely different. I have a dying Mt ash in my back yard (and have turned other MA from 3-4 different sources the last 10 years) . These are ?? ornamental trees and don't grow that tall.. It has red berries and small pinately compound leaves. Bark is smooth. It is closed grain (vs open grain of reg ash). My mt ash spalts nicely. The crotch figure spalted can be stunning and I frankly have a hard time telling it from spalted crab apple.
I like to turn Mt ash when it is quite dry to ease sanding. I sometimes have the same problem sanding it as cedar. It seemed to take finish unevenly so I use 2 coats of sanding sealer. It is soft wood, and sanding marks show up. Regular ash is much easier with its open graininess breaking up the sanding marks. I just applied finish today on a mt ash small bowl . I have turned a 10x3" green (not as in wet) ash as well the last 2 weeks, and am in the process of applying finish to that as well, so can compare side by side. The reg ash will have palpable annular rings when it dries-not so with Mt A. Wonder why Mt ash has been named so?? I have a "stash" of many small pieces crotch pieces that I have been spalting the last 2 years . Cut them up about 2 months ago and will be turning more this winter. If you want to "experiment" before "buying" some, I'd be happy to send you a couple of pieces. Gretch
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gary rock said:
Odie

Have turned both. I find that there is not that much difference. Have brought back Colorado Ash to down here in the swamp land and have turned Ash from down here. I like both. I know that this really doesn't answer your question.

Gary:cool2:
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Howdy Gretch and Gary........

Sort of looks like you two have differing opinions about Mountain Ash! Could be many possible reasons for that.

Thanks for the offer, Gretch........but, I do have one piece of Mountain Ash on the way. I'll get some experience with it soon enough! Personally, I have my doubts that I'll want to turn much of this species, but if one comes up that looks especially interesting, I might get more. I was able to look at this one from a photo, and it looks promising. After I have done at least one, I'll have a definite basis for whether or not, I'll be interested in doing more......but, in any case, I won't spend any time on any piece of wood, unless it aesthetically inspires me!

ooc
 
I've turned mountain ash but I'm not all that fond of it. I find that if it's been sitting a while (month or two) before turning it seems to have greyish smudge-like marks when finished. It will look dirty, as if you've handled it with grubby hands. You also have to use a clear finish or it's rather unattractive.

If you turn it right away it cuts like butter - easiest turning you will find. I rough turn it and coat it with end sealer and let it dry to 8%. I find you can get a very nice smooth finish to the dry wood.

I've never turned real ash.
 
regular ash

A friend of mine that owns a large woods lost an ash tree(6 1/2 ft. in dia.) to a wind storm 2 years ago and he has been after me to cut it up. When it gets a little colder we will whack away at it. It should produce some large bowls and jars.
I like turning ash but it isn't the most aesthetic looking wood as far as I am concerned. It does has adifinite grain pattern and sands pretty good.
I wish a storm would blow down a persimmon,mulberry, or catalpa tree, more to my liking--just kidding about losing more trees. Gary
 
Gary Chapman said:
A friend of mine that owns a large woods lost an ash tree(6 1/2 ft. in dia.) to a wind storm 2 years ago and he has been after me to cut it up. When it gets a little colder we will whack away at it. It should produce some large bowls and jars.
I like turning ash but it isn't the most aesthetic looking wood as far as I am concerned. It does has adifinite grain pattern and sands pretty good.
I wish a storm would blow down a persimmon,mulberry, or catalpa tree, more to my liking--just kidding about losing more trees. Gary
Click to expand...

Hello Gary......

I agree that most of the commonly encountered commercial Ash is pretty boring......but, some of it can get really spectacular. Here's photos of a couple Ash bowls I've done recently that, in my opinion, have excellent grain and character.

I have some other Ash bowls coming up that are rather plain looking, and other than the fact that they are already on hand, I probably wouldn't be turning them. Also, sometimes with the larger bowl blanks, 12" and up, you make allowances for plain looking wood in order to secure the larger bowl blocks.

ooc
 

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Odie,
Those are beautiful pieces, I surely can find some interesting configurations in this humongous tree. There is sure a lot of wood to pick from. Thanks Gary
 
Gary Chapman said:
Odie,
Those are beautiful pieces, I surely can find some interesting configurations in this humongous tree. There is sure a lot of wood to pick from. Thanks Gary
Click to expand...

Thanks, Gary........

Ya......good luck in your search for the "perfect" piece of wood! 😀

ooc
 
ash

I think white colored ash is boring. My neighbor cut down a 36"+ diameter tree, and another smaller one with branches and thus crotch figure. I have had some good color and some great figure. I think in general the base of the tree will have more interesting figure. The tannish color for some reason leaves me cold and I have had fun learning how to dye.. I have used color on these (before and after) for a better contrast. Sorry about no pics-I have taken many pics but it's a "pain" to transfer to computer and convert from raw and photo shop. It's just a chore. It was simpler with my point and shoot camera!!!! Maybe when I get incapacitated!!!! Gretch
 
Odie, I have turned both ash and mountain ash. In my opinion, they are not closely related, The mountain ash vase was turned from a green 6" diameter limb (spindle orientation). It turned easily, was left to dry on the counter of as unused bathroom. (out in the open-not much air flow or sun). There was very little distortion in this orientation. Hand sanded, some WOP, it was more of an experiment just to see what it was like. I also roughed out a couple of small diameter bowls from a crotch area that turned crisply, but were not particularly dramatic. The tree was of the wild variety, but allowed to grow as an ornamental. In conclusion, I wouldn't pass it up, especially in my case where it was cut up in blocks and was curbside, free for the taking.
 

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mountain ash

Mountain ash is not a true ash(Fraxinus). It has a similar compound leaf and there the similarities end. Mountain ash(Sorbus americana) is a small tree or shrub that belongs to the Rose family.
 
Frederic Braun said:
Mountain ash is not a true ash(Fraxinus). It has a similar compound leaf and there the similarities end. Mountain ash(Sorbus americana) is a small tree or shrub that belongs to the Rose family.
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Tell that to the 50 ft high mountain ash that I cut down a couple of months back. It seems the usage of the term "Mountain Ash" can be for a vareity of species, including those in the Sorbus genus
 
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