Hello to everyone Newbie to the forum here...Im hoping to get some feed back on the Monster Lathe Tools articulated arm hollowing system. Im finally in the position to buy a rig and am having a terrible time deciding on one...its allot of cash for me to let go of!! Ive chose this rig mainly cause of the square cutters it uses, i was a machinist for several years so this style of bit is familiar to me, cheap to replace, and easy to sharpen compared to the carbide bits that alot of the other boring bars use. I would love to hear from anyone with experience using a rig like this. Also if anyone has a good reason why the articulated systme is better than a captive hollowing system or visa versa i would be all ears...ive only based my decession on the articulated rig looks as if it would be more controllable and less tiring than the captive system for long turning sessions...Thanks in advance for any insight!!!
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articulated arm hollowing rigs
- Thread starter Mike Renfro
- Start date
Welcome!
I don't have a captured system, I selected the Monster articulated arm after looking long and hard.
The captured system takes up more room than I have to use it properly. I LOVE the articulated arm.
If I had not already used the Rolly Munro articulated hollower, I would probably be quite happy with the scraper type cutters.
There are plenty of threads about this topic on the site...
Take a look around.
I don't have a captured system, I selected the Monster articulated arm after looking long and hard.
The captured system takes up more room than I have to use it properly. I LOVE the articulated arm.
If I had not already used the Rolly Munro articulated hollower, I would probably be quite happy with the scraper type cutters.
There are plenty of threads about this topic on the site...
Take a look around.
Monster rig
I purchased the Monster Articulating Hollowing system as a Christmas present from my wife...........
It is rare indeed when a product actually exceeds its reputation, but in my opinion the Monster system is so well machined, and so well thought out, that it exceeds the "hype" you see on some of the forums.........turns out the reviews are not hype at all!
I have hand held hollowing tools, and the Monster rig is like the difference in riding a bike and riding in a cadillac. The rig takes the torque and stress out of doing hollowing by hand.
I think it is a safer way as catches [although can be done] are minimized a great deal.
Bottom line........if I had to do it over, I would jump on it with both feet, and purchase it again.......in my opinion it is that good!
I purchased the Monster Articulating Hollowing system as a Christmas present from my wife...........
It is rare indeed when a product actually exceeds its reputation, but in my opinion the Monster system is so well machined, and so well thought out, that it exceeds the "hype" you see on some of the forums.........turns out the reviews are not hype at all!
I have hand held hollowing tools, and the Monster rig is like the difference in riding a bike and riding in a cadillac. The rig takes the torque and stress out of doing hollowing by hand.
I think it is a safer way as catches [although can be done] are minimized a great deal.
Bottom line........if I had to do it over, I would jump on it with both feet, and purchase it again.......in my opinion it is that good!
monster rig
Hey thanks guys thats awesome news...problem solved...definantely going with the Monster articullated arm system!!!
Hey thanks guys thats awesome news...problem solved...definantely going with the Monster articullated arm system!!!
Steve W. is presenting a rotation on hollowing systems at st paul, should be interesting
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I have a home built Jamieson copy and have been making sketches to make myself something similar to the Monster tool. The reason. Storage. I believe I can store the articulated arms and various attachments in a much smaller place.
The monster tool system is excellent based on many happy responses from users. I have played with it and like it a lot. I may actually buy the laser system from him and add it to my homemade system. His laser mount and laser is excellent.
The monster tool system is excellent based on many happy responses from users. I have played with it and like it a lot. I may actually buy the laser system from him and add it to my homemade system. His laser mount and laser is excellent.
AlanZ
Resident Techno Geek
I've had my Monster articulated rig for a few weeks. Very nicely made.
I have had a great deal of success with the monster system. The laser attachment allows me to turn consistently thin (1/16 to 3/32) walls with out catches or blow outs. One thing I have had to relearn is the constant clearing of chips as they will cause the system to "chatter" if not cleared frequently. In closing, if I had to buy this system again, I would.
The biggest advantage of any articulated system, is the ability to "snake" in offset cutters through a smaller hole. I have a home-made articulated system and the Jamieson system. The articulated system will let you do more severe undercutting, through a smaller hole, than the Jamieson. You run out of travel with the Jamieson back rest. You can shift the backrest around during the cutting, but it is bothersome to do that when you are making the final smoothing cuts.
Mike,
Attached are a couple of photos of my Kobra rig in use. One (with my mug) was done for a Woodworker West article on hollowing systems and tools by Ellis Walentine of WoodCentral. The other is a shot of the rig being set up to work out the bottom of a large 16" deep maple bowl. This is the only articulated rig I've seen that allows the turner to use full-body motion to make cuts; the others I tried (including a Sudol/Jamieson clone that I made for myself) mostly come down to finger work to advance the cutter.
IMHO, the Kobra is the best rig there (currently) is, but it's also the most expensive and there's a long waiting list. PM me if you want more info.
Attached are a couple of photos of my Kobra rig in use. One (with my mug) was done for a Woodworker West article on hollowing systems and tools by Ellis Walentine of WoodCentral. The other is a shot of the rig being set up to work out the bottom of a large 16" deep maple bowl. This is the only articulated rig I've seen that allows the turner to use full-body motion to make cuts; the others I tried (including a Sudol/Jamieson clone that I made for myself) mostly come down to finger work to advance the cutter.
IMHO, the Kobra is the best rig there (currently) is, but it's also the most expensive and there's a long waiting list. PM me if you want more info.
Attachments
I haven't had a chance to try the Kobra system, but I think the biggest difference between it and the Monster system is that the Kobra is more heavy duty. I have had my Monster for 2 years or so, and love it for smaller hollow forms, up to maybe 8 inches deep, which is about as deep as it can go without chattering. I did have an adapter made for my Kelton hollowing blades, which I prefer to the ones that come with the tool. Excellent laser system.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
I will be showing an articulated system, but it is Vicmarcs, they were the one that loaned me one. In principle they are all the same. I like the compactness of the Kobra though and it is well made. He shared space in my booth one year at AAW.
I have several bushings that I made for my old Sudol rig that fit nicely in the Kobra's 1" receiver. I can thus use tooling and boring bars from 1/4" rod up to 1.5" bar with equal ease. The single rig will do small turnings up to my current bar limit of 24" deep.
The thing that really sets it apart is that you can use your whole body (and weight) for big-muscled tool control because you're holding the tool just as you would doing a bowl gouge or even hollowing Ellsworth style which is how I learned to hollow.
I've never tried the Kobra but I don't need to as I have the Monster. The Monster Hollowing System will and has done everything I've ever asked it to do on all of my lathes. The laser system is the easiest to set up and use than any I've tried. I can go plenty deep with my big Keltons and Jordans with the adapter I got from Randy to hold the 3/4" tools. Randy supplies a lot of tools with the initial purchase. For the money it is a great deal in my estimation.
Bill
Bill
Another vote for the Kobra
If you have the money, the Kobra is the way to go. If you have the room for a captive system, the Jamieson is the way to go. As has already been said, the Jamieson allows finger tip control. SO does the Kobra ... just reach up there and guide it using your fingers just as you would on the Jamieson hollowing system.
Another reason to go Kobra (if you are considering articulated arms systems) is that you can safely turn much deeper than with any other articulated system. I have seen Al Crandall go deeper than 18 inches, with a larger boring bar of course.
For those who favor the carbide cutter route, you can by the tip (#1 Hunter cutter) and the standard boring bar from Lyle. They will fit the Kobra system. Am I biased towards the Kobra and Jamieson modls? You bet your sweet bippie I am! I did my hollowing freehand until I had to have surgery on both shoulders for rotator cuff repairs. Either of these rigs would have prevented the damage, had they been around 30 years ago.
Just my $ .05 worth (its the economy you know?)
If you have the money, the Kobra is the way to go. If you have the room for a captive system, the Jamieson is the way to go. As has already been said, the Jamieson allows finger tip control. SO does the Kobra ... just reach up there and guide it using your fingers just as you would on the Jamieson hollowing system.
Another reason to go Kobra (if you are considering articulated arms systems) is that you can safely turn much deeper than with any other articulated system. I have seen Al Crandall go deeper than 18 inches, with a larger boring bar of course.
For those who favor the carbide cutter route, you can by the tip (#1 Hunter cutter) and the standard boring bar from Lyle. They will fit the Kobra system. Am I biased towards the Kobra and Jamieson modls? You bet your sweet bippie I am! I did my hollowing freehand until I had to have surgery on both shoulders for rotator cuff repairs. Either of these rigs would have prevented the damage, had they been around 30 years ago.
Just my $ .05 worth (its the economy you know?)
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Thumbs up on the Kobra and everything that has been said. I do not have one but im sure its a great hollowing rig.
I have the Monster articulating and everything said is true and Robo is probably right in that it works great up to 8' diameter or so before the chattering. When I turn larger I have a different homemade rig that I really like but thats another story. What I like most about the monster hollowing rig is this: When I have a question or a problem Randy is a phone call away and will talk to you about it. The customer service is worth alot to me to be able to quickly and easily talk directly to him rather than a phone tree or leaving a message etc......He also has adapters for the rig and other tooling available on his website depending on what you are trying to do. His advice has helped me alot over the past couple years and I have never had any regrets buying the rig. It works great and comes with alot of extra parts and tooling in package...........for me I would buy it again
I have the Monster articulating and everything said is true and Robo is probably right in that it works great up to 8' diameter or so before the chattering. When I turn larger I have a different homemade rig that I really like but thats another story. What I like most about the monster hollowing rig is this: When I have a question or a problem Randy is a phone call away and will talk to you about it. The customer service is worth alot to me to be able to quickly and easily talk directly to him rather than a phone tree or leaving a message etc......He also has adapters for the rig and other tooling available on his website depending on what you are trying to do. His advice has helped me alot over the past couple years and I have never had any regrets buying the rig. It works great and comes with alot of extra parts and tooling in package...........for me I would buy it again
problem with mini monster
I was intriqued with the mini monster, but found out that they no longer offer carbide cutters, I don;t know how and don't want the bother of sharpening HSS cutters, I can get the same articulating jig from Hollow fast by TMI with ' the carbide cutter and it is cheaper than the Jameison system or the mini monster by over $100.
Seems like an overlooked system.
I was intriqued with the mini monster, but found out that they no longer offer carbide cutters, I don;t know how and don't want the bother of sharpening HSS cutters, I can get the same articulating jig from Hollow fast by TMI with ' the carbide cutter and it is cheaper than the Jameison system or the mini monster by over $100.
Seems like an overlooked system.
I'm another very happy Kobra owner. I still free hand hollow forms that are less than 8" but bought the Kobra system to be able to Hollow deeper forms with out getting my body beat up doing it. As said earlier one holds the handle and uses the system just like they would when free hand hollowing. Using ones body to move the tool gives greater control. I have hollowed 14" deep with this system and had no trouble doing it. It doesn't take a long bed to hollow on either. I've been able to hollow forms up to 14" on the outboard bed of my lathe which is only 24" long.
Jack
Jack
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about sharpening the HSS cutters. They are about as simple as it gets. Very easy to sharpen and the smaller 3/16" cutters can be either very aggessive or very light depending on how hard or soft you work with them.
The end of this video shows how I sharpen them. I believe I learned this from Lyle Jamieson. it's about as simple as it gets.
\http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9G16ylEZHQ
The end of this video shows how I sharpen them. I believe I learned this from Lyle Jamieson. it's about as simple as it gets.
\http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9G16ylEZHQ
I wanted to add a review to the articulated hollowing systems - I have a Kobra and couldn't be happier. The thing is a beast for sure - watch your fingers when you are taking it on or off the lathe - but it makes hollowing a simple and safe breeze. It took a while to get the thing - I think it was about 8 months from the time that I placed my order until it arrived. I actually placed my order and then forgot about it until one day an email came in saying it was ready, send us money. From that point it was only a couple of weeks - send them money, they send me the rig. The bottom line - I cannot imagine how I ever hollowed anything before this thing. It is really all about safety for me. Could not be happier! If you buy one, be sure to get the laser - it is worth every penny!
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I have briefly played with most of the various articulated hollowing rigs and agree that the Kobra is the best with respect to sturdiness, range of motion, and reach. I agree with those who like the Monster rig that it certainly is no slouch. I have used a friend's Monster hollowing rig to make a small hollowform using his Powermatic 3520B and have no complaints about it. Mike, I don't own any of the articulated hollowing rigs so my opinion is more like the thoughts of a bystander.
I won a Jamieson hollowing rig at SWAT this year and I do think that is is excellent for fine fingertip control of the cutter. I sold it because I already had bought an Advanced Lathe Tools (Steve Sinner) hollowing rig because I was interested in making deeper hollowforms. The Sinner hollower is really solid and heavy duty (and just plain heavy), but because of its mass, there is not the same degree of fingertip control in making fine detail cuts as there is with the Jamieson rig. For John Lucas: From what I can tell, the Jamieson rig stores more compactly and is lighter than any of the articulated arm rigs that I am familiar with, except for maybe the Elbo rig for a mini lathe.
Regarding cutters -- I have both HSS and carbide. I have a Rolly Munro cutter that can use either HSS or carbide inserts. Steve Sinner said that he thinks that the carbide cutter in the Rolly Munro tool is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, maybe not quite that good, but it does make beautiful fine slicing cuts. I agree with John that sharpening HSS is not a big deal. However, I had one particularly hard piece of post oak burl that simply could not be cut with HSS -- at least not without stopping every ten or fifteen seconds to resharpen the cutter. The wood was so hard that it wore out one carbide cutter and most of another. I didn't really think that anybody was actually complaining about HSS -- more like stating a preference for carbide by a couple folks -- and, it's their money, so whatever rattles their cage.
Also, one other thing, Mike, I think that round nose or circular cutters (HSS or carbide) work better than square cutters for most hollowing. With square cutters, there will always be one corner digging into the wood.
I won a Jamieson hollowing rig at SWAT this year and I do think that is is excellent for fine fingertip control of the cutter. I sold it because I already had bought an Advanced Lathe Tools (Steve Sinner) hollowing rig because I was interested in making deeper hollowforms. The Sinner hollower is really solid and heavy duty (and just plain heavy), but because of its mass, there is not the same degree of fingertip control in making fine detail cuts as there is with the Jamieson rig. For John Lucas: From what I can tell, the Jamieson rig stores more compactly and is lighter than any of the articulated arm rigs that I am familiar with, except for maybe the Elbo rig for a mini lathe.
Regarding cutters -- I have both HSS and carbide. I have a Rolly Munro cutter that can use either HSS or carbide inserts. Steve Sinner said that he thinks that the carbide cutter in the Rolly Munro tool is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, maybe not quite that good, but it does make beautiful fine slicing cuts. I agree with John that sharpening HSS is not a big deal. However, I had one particularly hard piece of post oak burl that simply could not be cut with HSS -- at least not without stopping every ten or fifteen seconds to resharpen the cutter. The wood was so hard that it wore out one carbide cutter and most of another. I didn't really think that anybody was actually complaining about HSS -- more like stating a preference for carbide by a couple folks -- and, it's their money, so whatever rattles their cage.
Also, one other thing, Mike, I think that round nose or circular cutters (HSS or carbide) work better than square cutters for most hollowing. With square cutters, there will always be one corner digging into the wood.