are yea a crow?

[Charlie Knighton]

which is more important, shiney or lift?

i know the crow likes shiney, which do you value more? 😱 😀

 

[Barbara Gill]

I must not understand the question. What is lift?

 

[Rob Wallace]

Charlie:

If I am interpreting your concept of 'lift' as I do, this is an integral element of the form of the piece, and is an essential component of the overall success of the piece's shape and proportion, relative to the surface it is sitting on.

Lift is far more important than 'shiny' (....which I interpret as a gloss finish). Whether the surface is shiny, matte, or textured matters very little if the overall form of the piece falls short of providing a aesthetically pleasing relationship of faired curves, scale, and proportion - of which lift is a component. If the piece looks like it is 'sunken' or visually embedded into the surface on which it sits, it can be described as 'static' or 'clunky', as opposed to a piece which seems to float above the surface ("lift") due to its intrinsic curves how the bottom shape is formed.

It doesn't matter one bit how the surface is treated (shiny or not) to affect the viewer's perception of how they see the form of piece. A well-formed piece with lift and a dull surface will still seem appealing; if it is poorly shaped, "shiny" won't correct this. Certainly, all pieces do not need to be shiny - IMHO, all pieces should have some element of lift.

Rob Wallace

 

[Max Taylor]

[I am not touching Rob's explanation with a ten foot pole. Max.SIZE="3"][/SIZE]

 

[MichaelMouse]

It doesn't matter one bit how the surface is treated (shiny or not) to affect the viewer's perception of how they see the form of piece. A well-formed piece with lift and a dull surface will still seem appealing; if it is poorly shaped, "shiny" won't correct this. Certainly, all pieces do not need to be shiny - IMHO, all pieces should have some element of lift.

Rob Wallace

It's not whether forms are shiny, matte, or gracefully executed, but whether they're hollow with thin walls....😉

 

[Bill Boehme]

I had a pet crow when I was a teenager a couple years ago. They definitely do like shiny stuff. We would deliberately put out some small bright metal object and then pretend to not be paying attention while Crow would try to be sneaky and also pretend to not be interested while easing up closer and closer with one eye on me and the other on the shiny object. Finally, he would get bold enough to make his move and grab the shiny object and fly into "his" tree with it. Once safely out of reach, he would laugh at me and be saying in crow talk, "look what I stole from you". Since I could speak Crow, I would say, "it was a gift, caw caw, hah, hah".

 

[GA Darling]

I had a pet crow when I was a teenager a couple years ago. They definitely do like shiny stuff. We would deliberately put out some small bright metal object and then pretend to not be paying attention while Crow would try to be sneaky and also pretend to not be interested while easing up closer and closer with one eye on me and the other on the shiny object. Finally, he would get bold enough to make his move and grab the shiny object and fly into "his" tree with it. Once safely out of reach, he would laugh at me and be saying in crow talk, "look what I stole from you". Since I could speak Crow, I would say, "it was a gift, caw caw, hah, hah".

Me thinks there might be something in the air there in Texas. 🙂

 

[Bill Boehme]

Me thinks there might be something in the air there in Texas. 🙂

Since I grew up in Houston during the middle part of the last century, I would have to say that there was plenty of high octane stuff in the air.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

hollow with thin

if hollow and thick would/could command more force????? to the viewer or less skill of the turner to the viewer???????

 

[Bill Boehme]

For the most part, the only people who care about thin are turners who want to showcase their skills to other turners. Buyers want things with some "heft" -- sort of like getting your money's worth in weight takes priority over space being occupied.

This realization was a bit hard to swallow after spending so much time developing my skill to the point of being able to see how much wood I can remove from the interior of a vessel while still having something on the outside. On a number of my "weightless turning projects, my chief art critic has given a thumbs down to what I thought were great accomplishments both technically and artistically, so off they went to the Empty Bowls Project where their ultimate fate is unknown to me.

 

[MichaelMouse]

if hollow and thick would/could command more force????? to the viewer or less skill of the turner to the viewer???????

Strange how a discussion of form and finish digresses. Always has, so nothing more to be said than if it's form, it's outside, if its finish, it's outside, and who cares what's inside? I've mentioned this every time this thread surfaces. I make three-four pieces a year which are thin and not ornaments. They do not sell well, and in some venues it's necessary to weight them against the breeze. The only people who touch them are other turners, and they're interested in trades, not purchase.

These enjoyed a period of vogue before we started stuffing scrapers on sticks inside lovely pieces of wood, not to improve its form, function or finish, but to show off. http://www.woodturns.com/articles/projects/weed_pot.htm

I'd have gone for a narrower bottom and no ridge. Sort of looks like the pot is trying to melt into the surface.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

i was thinking more of bowls and wide mouth hf, 3/4 to 3/8 thick

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think that some sense of proportion is needed when you are talking about wall thickness of a bowl. To me, a large bowl that is very thin wouldn't quite look proportionally balanced (example: 14 inches diameter and 1/8 inch thick), but there are obviously exceptions. An example would be the basket weave designs for which David Nittman is famous.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

yes, i got to sweep up David and Cindy's shavings once

i guess everytime there is a general rule there is an exception, so what is pleasing is the outcome of the turning, there is such diversity in the instant galleries that you almost do not have to go to the rotations

 

[MichaelMouse]

i was thinking more of bowls and wide mouth hf, 3/4 to 3/8 thick

You have to wonder how much more appealing this form would be if he'd only hollowed it. http://www.freebase.com/view/m/0291fty

Then again, what do you expect from a guy who doesn't even know David was Jewish....😉

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Lyle does more female forms, but he does hollow them

 

[Bill Boehme]

yes, i got to sweep up David and Cindy's shavings once

Nobody ever comes around and sweeps up my shavings -- not even me.

I had a nice conversation with David N. at SWAT last year and wound up buying some pigment art pens from him. Seems like something similar always happens whenever I talk to one of the big name guys at a symposium.

,,, I guess everytime there is a general rule there is an exception ....

...which brings up the "Exception Rule" that states that for every rule there is an exception. The paradox is that the exception to the Exception Rule is that there is no exception.

... Then again, what do you expect from a guy who doesn't even know David was Jewish....😉

Overlooked a small detail? 🙄