another bandsaw thread

[ahoiberg]

instead of confusing the other thread, i thought i'd just start a new one.

i was attempting to cut a rough, small, bowl blank the other day on my bandsaw, i've got a craftsman 12", and the blade bound up something fierce on one of my passes. i forget exactly the orientation of the log but i thought i broke the blade, however it was just bent. this is the same blade i've used since purchasing the saw, obviously it's time for a new one. the blades are 80", can anyone recommend a good TPI and blade width for blank roughing?

i should have used my chainsaw to get it into a more managable size before taking it to the bandsaw... lessons learned i guess.

also, any tips on general wood feeding into the saw? i think i just need to be more patient but it seems like it takes forever to cut in the round shape. the blade seems to wander when trying to cut straight edges also... could this be a tension issue or again me being impatient? or just dull blades??

sorry for all the questions guys but i appreciate your responses!

cheers,
andrew

 

[Brian Hahn]

It sounds like dull blade problems to me.

You'll find people who like inexpensive blades and other who like the premium blades. I'd suggest inexpensive blades to start with. That way mishaps aren't as costly. You should be able to buy them locally. And get a couple at once so you won't be as tempted to push just one more piece through a dull blade.

I like a low number of teeth per inch and a hook tooth profile. They are more aggressive and cut faster, but they don't give as smooth of a surface. (Really only a concern for cabinet work.)

 

[Ed Heuslein]

Howdy Andrew: I have had very good luck with the Timberwolf blades. I use a 3tpi blade for general bowl shaping, etc. They are available at a lot of places, such as "The Cutting Edge" in Houston, TX. They are as cheap as some and cheaper than most sources. Good luck. Ed

 

[David Somers]

Andrew,

A sharp blade with the right TPI (3 or less) and the right width blade make a big difference. Additionally, consider making a cutting jig to help you cut the blanks in a circle. All of my blade damage came when I was freehanding my blanks. I have almost eliminated that now by using a jig.

A shot each of the overall jig and the pin setup follows. It is basically a simple sliding table top that slips onto the existing saw table. There is a stop block on it so that it will slide away from you a set distance. To use it, you set the pin in a hole at the distance you want for the radius of your blank. The holes are predrilled and are set at a right angle to the blades line of cut, and lined up with the cutting tip of the blade when the table is pushed all the way to the stop block.

slide the top towards you far enough that you can set the log on top of the pin and clear the blade. Set the log firmly on the pin. You may want to drill hole in the bottom of the log to help set the pin securely. Then turn on the saw and slide the table slowly into the blade, holding the log firmly in place. The blade will cut straight in to the log on a tangent to the eventual blank. When the table has been pushed in to the stop begin rotating the log on the pin. You are now cutting your circle. Continue all the way around until you are back at your starting point. Turn off the saw and back the blade out of the kerf that it entered from, or just break the outside ring away and remove the finished blank.

This jig has done a lot for the life of my blades. And my apologies to the developer of this jig. I found the design for it on the web and couldn't locate it again for reference here. I modified the design a bit by using predrilled holes and a pin for the center point of the blank, while the original design called for a dovetail slot with a sliding pin. The holes and pin was faster and met my needs just fine.

 

[ahoiberg]

is there any chance you could take a picture of the sliding mechanism on the bottom of the table? tis a great idea though.

 

[Jim Keenan]

http://woodsmith.com/plans/band-saw-circle-cutting-jig/

 

[David Somers]

is there any chance you could take a picture of the sliding mechanism on the bottom of the table? tis a great idea though.

Ahoiberg,

The mechanism is pretty basic. That inverted T is made with cut down 2x stock simply grips the existing table. No other mechanism. It is long enough that the unit won't pop off if you extend it a bit far.

Here is the underside from the same position as the first shots.



Capt Jim followed your question with a more elaborate approach to the same thing with some excellent photos.

 

[ahoiberg]

i guess i was having trouble understanding what the sliding part of it was for. but after re-examining the photos, i see that you need it to slide the precut blank into the blade, right? i was thinking that you could just mount it on the pin, but if the blank was bigger, then it wouldn't have a good starting point for the cut.

so did you just make perpendicular lines on the board to bisect the center and just cut with the saw along the one side up to the mid section so you can slide the whole unit the other way to feed the blank? and then drill your pin holes on the line perpendicular to the one you slide along?

also, what did you use for a pin and did you just drill halfway into the board to allow the pin a seat?

i'm going to have to modify it a bit as my table doesn't have a space under it (the stand for the saw extends about 10 inches below the table without a gap and hardly any overhang), so I'll have to figure something else out but nothing a little elbow grease can't fix.

thanks again.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I'm with Dave. A good circle jig will do a lot for a marginal saw, and I owned a Sears 12" that was generously described as marginal. Keeps you from trying to twist without cutting, which is what bows and binds blades. Don't have to do the full Norm on your jig if you don't want to. You can just make a sheet that advances, guided by the miter groove and stopped in front with holes bored every inch perpendicular to the front of the blade. Put your pivot in the proper hole and cut.

I find that blade kinking is more a function of not having a good flat to rest on, and having the blank tip and bind. Best for this, as mentioned in the other recent thread, is to use a plane or two to gain a firm understanding.

 

[David Somers]

Ahoiberg,

When I first made it, I slipped it onto the existing saw table to make sure it would slide smoothly but firmly at least to where it met the blade. After adjusting things to smooth up the slide I put it back on and turned on the saw, and pushed the jig into the blade until I hit the stop. That is how I cut the channel for the blade. Then while it was at the stop I shut off the saw and then drew a right angle from the cut line of the blade just at the tip of the teeth going out to the right. Then I drilled the holes along that line, going just 1/2 way into the board. The pin is just a piece of aluminum rod that I ground to a point.

This took very little time to make. Its not pertty, but it does work well.

Michaelmouse suggested you could dispense with the 2x stock T's that guide the table and just use something running in the miter slot instead. We are doing that with a friend's Sears saw and expect it will work just fine. I am going to make the jig longer on the backside though to make sure that it doesn't accidentally pop out of the miter or tip up because I pulled it too far forward.

Holler if you need more photos of anything. I can get them for you this evening!

Dave

 

[ahoiberg]

dave & everyone else, thanks a bunch for all your help and suggestions. I think i've got a good idea of what i'll do with it. I'll use the miter slot for sure and then screw on a runner to the bottom of the table to be in constant contact with the front of the table (kind of a second miter, if you will) and then just attach another rail to the bottom on the side i need the stop to be on.

can't wait to build it up! i'll let you know how it comes out. i've got to get a new bandsaw blade too so i can start fresh.

i got my bandsaw used from craigslist, it's not the best saw in the world, but for the price, i couldn't say no (plus, it's pretty big, deep throat and such). so the blade probably hasn't been changed since the previous owner bought it who knows how long ago.

thanks again guys!

 

[ahoiberg]

let's talk blades.

i get the feeling that a 1/2" blade with 3 TPI would be best for blank roughing?

i also like to do some other woodworking and am curious if any of you guys have any experience with blades for cutting shapes. maybe a 1/8" or 1/4" with 12-16 TPI? I know scroll saws work best for this but i cannot afford one right now!

thanks again all.

 

[pencheff]

let's talk blades.

i get the feeling that a 1/2" blade with 3 TPI would be best for blank roughing?

i also like to do some other woodworking and am curious if any of you guys have any experience with blades for cutting shapes. maybe a 1/8" or 1/4" with 12-16 TPI? I know scroll saws work best for this but i cannot afford one right now!

thanks again all.

I have a 14" bandsaw, 1 hp with 8" cutting capacity. I keep a 3/8" 3tpi Alternate Set Timberwolf bade on the machine for almost all my cutting needs. Works great for milling turning stock and even resawing kiln dried hardwood up to 6" or so. I'll swap it out for a Timberwolf PC blade when I need a smooth cut, 3/8" or 1/4" depending on thickness of material or tightness of the radius I need to cut. When I need to resaw a lot of lumber I'll install a 1/2" 2tpi AS Timberwolf.

If your saw is underpowered (3/4 hp?) then a 1/2" blade may be too wide. The surface area of a band that wide in the kerf creates friction and drag, especially when cutting circles in green wood where the kerf has a tendency to swell shut behind the cut. And even though the cutting radius of a 1/2" blade is normally about 2 1/2" I'd find it tough going cutting a 6" diameter bowl blank with a blade that wide.

I have some other Morse brand blades in 3/16" and 1/4" width with up to 16tpi that I can install when I need to make very smooth cuts with tight radii in thin material. But I don't do that kind of work very often.

This is what works for me. No doubt someone will now post that they use 3/4" x 4 tpi blades on a foot powered 12" 1942 Sears to cut 4" circles in 6" thick green oak. Never fails.

 

[ahoiberg]

thanks for the advice, greg. sounds like the 3/8 may be the way to go with my slightly underpowered saw...

another question, my bandsaw's got two speeds possible on it, i haven't changed it from the one it's on, but it may go a little faster than it currently does, would the faster or slower setting be more appropriate for shaping blanks?

 

[Paul Engle]

yep circle jig is the only way to go, incorporating a sliding platform is even better for ripping slabs for shallow work, I use 80" x 3/8 olson blades 12.95 at true value locally for bowl etc . i have a 1/2 in Timberwolf 2.5 tpi ( 22.50$) hook ,skip tooth for roughing out slabs , stone down the back edge to help turning better on 1/2 hp mtr.

 

[ahoiberg]

so, i've encountered some problems when trying to cut a slice off of a log. i've got some small juniper logs and small cherry logs and both times when i try to take a slice off of them, the band on my saw wants to grab it and bind up the blade. am i not supposed to try cutting like this on the bandsaw? do i need a firmer grip or a flat surface on one side of the log to slide on the table?

 

[almather]

For cutting a slice out of a round log you need to support both the front 'edge' and the back side so it doesn't get pulled down and forward with the downward movement of the band. I learned this through experience, and a kinked band!!

Al

 

[David Somers]

so, i've encountered some problems when trying to cut a slice off of a log. i've got some small juniper logs and small cherry logs and both times when i try to take a slice off of them, the band on my saw wants to grab it and bind up the blade. am i not supposed to try cutting like this on the bandsaw? do i need a firmer grip or a flat surface on one side of the log to slide on the table?

Ahoiberg,

As you said, the blade tries to pull the log down, causing it to roll and the blade to bind in the process. The trick is to use some scrap wood to make what amounts to a cradle to hold the log. You end up pushing the cradle through the with log.

If and when you make a sliding table like we talked about earlier in the post, you can modify it a bit to hold a cradle. Then the whole table can be slid, cradle and all.

Check out this web page for a fairly simple standalone jig to hold a log.

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/sl/aw_bandsaw_resaw_main.htm?1009130201181825

If you think about it you can make something even simpler that will work in a pinch. The trick is to secure the log on the side opposite the blade so you don't accidentally run the blade through your fasteners, but the log is held securely against the pull of the blade. And you want to make it easy to slide the log on the table parallel to the blade cut line. Your miter slot makes a great guide for this.

Definately take the time to make a jig. You are very likely to break your blade by hand holding it, and a broken blade in a running band saw can potentially wip around outside and hurt you before it gets sucked back into the housings. Not to mention a fairly violent motion that may be created in the log. More than likely though you will not be hurt, but you will be out a bandsaw blade.

I am working late tonight so I am afraid I can't send you a picture of the jig I made up. The link above should help though.

Dave

 

[ahoiberg]

thank you all for clarifying yet another aspect of bandsawing for me!

dave, i'd love to see some pics of your jig when you get a chance.

let me ask this... when you guys use a fence to cut something straight on a bandsaw, do you need your fence to be angled for the drift? while searching the internet this evening, i've found some that seem to need it and others that don't. at least their homemade fences are parallel to the blade so i assume they're not accounting for any drift...

thanks again y'all.

 

[Brian Hahn]

drift

Drift normally means that the blade has a problem. Typically it is dull teeth on one side. I stop and fix the blade.

I always keep my fence parallel to the miter gauge slot, since my blades don't drift.

If your blade drifts and you don't want to fix or replace it, then angling the fence is standard way to cope with the problem.

p.s. I've had premium name-brand blades fresh from the box that had very bad drift and/or bowing problems. Sharpening the blade always fixed the problem.

 

[ahoiberg]

how does one sharpen a bandsaw blade?

 

[pencheff]

Drift normally means that the blade has a problem. Typically it is dull teeth on one side.

Assuming your blade guides and thrust bearings are adjusted correctly (see below) drift can also be caused by the band not running dead center on the tires. The tires have a slight crown to them and if the band is running toward the front of the crown the blade will tend to cut to "the left" and if the band is running toward the rear of the crown the blade will tend to cut to "the right."

There are dozens are online articles about bandsaw setup and tuning. Here are a couple decent ones you can use for reference.

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~pwguild/i-bndsaw.htm

http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/Band%20Saw%20Tune-up%20Dec%2003.htm

Not sure about your two speed saw though. All of mine have always been single speed saws. I would venture a guess that the higher speed is for cutting wood and that the lower speed is for use with a metal cutting blade.

 

[Brian Hahn]

Sharpening blades

how does one sharpen a bandsaw blade?

The way I sharpen them is described in the How-To forum Sharpening Band Saw Blades

My old Sears band saw had a speed reducer for cutting metal. Wood cutting works best at the higher speed.

 

[John Nicholas]

12 inch Bandsaw

I have a 12 inch Jet BS with a 3/4 hp motor.

I use a 1/2 in Timberwolf 3 tpi hook skip (I think) blade. I dulled out and I had a new 3/8 Timberwolf 8tpi blade hanging on the hook. So I traded.

I knew the 8 tpi would slow things down. I think I was better off with the dull 1/2 inch.

The key to thick wood is the 2 or 3 tpi. The larger gullet between teeth allow it to pull the sawdust along without a lot of wasted time blade movement and heat. The 1/2 inch blade will handle the heat better than a smaller blade.

By the time I get back to my saw, my new Timber wolfblade will be here. You can check them out a www.suffolkmachinery.com Lots of blade info up there. You will then have to call. They don't do internet orders. And as a bonus, the people on the other end of the phone know what they are talking about. They will help you out.

John