Anchorseal Classic, Anchorseal II, Titebond II?

[Hu Lowery]

Threw away all of my blanks and starting over from green wood. Usage will be to seal the ends of short log sections cut through the pith or either side of it, round bowl blanks from green wood, and roughed out bowls. Intention is to treat the end grain and anything that looks to be a problem area.

Anchorseal Classic, Anchorseal II, and Titebond II are so close to the same price that used undiluted it is a wash, they all cost basically the same. However, I read someone got good results mixing Titebond II five parts Titebond to seven parts water. A very significant savings if I mix Titebond and water one to one which I would probably try first if I diluted it. Another advantage is I don't have to stock Titebond, I can always grab some within thirty miles, the Anchorseal has to be shipped from the New England area. Also I read that someone actually got better results with Titebond II than Anchorseal but I don't remember if they were using it straight or diluted.

I am in a slightly drier than outright swamp area of Louisiana but quite humid and rainy. Blanks will be stored in shade but not climate control. Temperatures reaching well over a hundred Fahrenheit in the summer.

Any suggestions as to the best route to take? Leaning towards the tried and true Anchorseal Classic but I'd like to hear how it compares to Anchorseal II and Titebond II from those that have tried these options. Open to other ideas too, considering a denatured alcohol soak before treating. Tired of losing blanks to cracks and the cracks usually run too deep to cut away even leaving the sections one and a half to two times the log width.

Thanks for any thoughts!

Hu

 

[john lucas]

Years ago I tried all sorts of things rather than Anchorseal for the false impression that there was something less expensive. I tried glue,roofing tar, caulking, latex paint, and then finally Anchorseal. What I found was wood storage is the most important. Keep it covered to keep the wind and UV off of it. Anchorseal turns out to really not be that expensive because it goes a long way. I use it on the logs after cutting. The other products turned out to be either messy or didn't work as well as Anchorseal. I put 2 coats on which seams to help with the checking a lot.
What I usually do is stack the logs on end when I get home. That effectively seals one end. Then I put a plastic bag or stretch wrap over them. They tend to sit like that longer than they should but it works to keep them from checking. They do get mold on the end but I'm going to cut that off any way. when I have time i either cut them up into pieces that can be stored more easily or into bowl or hollow form blanks. The big pieces are sealed with Anchorseal. The bowl blanks are sealed with Parrafin wax that I melt in an old electric skillet. Wax is flammable so don't use an open flame. I've stored bowl blanks for a year or more this way and it doesn't seem to cost much. If it won't roll in my pan I seal it Anchorseal.
If my logs start to check I cut them into turning blanks. I cut through the checked split and then mark the ends for squares such as 4x4, 5x5, 3x3, 2x2, etc as long as the log section is. I seal the ends with wax and put them on the shop floor to dry. If I can I may cut bowl blanks out of it if there's enough wood somewhere.
Anyway back to your original question. There are so many different ways to store wood in different parts of the country. I think each person has to try and find what works for them in their local and with their style of turning and where they store the wood. My experiments which lacked any kind of scientific validity told me that glue didn't work as well as Anchorseal. I've been playing with this dilemma for about 10 0r 12 years now and what I described above has saved me more wood than anything else I've tried. Your results may differ due to where you are and how you store the wood. Oh forgot, I never cut the pith out. It may or may not be a good idea, I just don't get around to it. Ripping logs is fare more difficult for my saw than cross cutting so I just don't mess with it and haven't seen any worse loss in my wood.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... Anchorseal Classic, Anchorseal II, and Titebond II are so close to the same price that used undiluted it is a wash, they all cost basically the same. However, I read someone got good results mixing Titebond II five parts Titebond to seven parts water.......

Anchorseal Classic or Anchorseal II -- not much difference although I prefer the Classic. Both are wax/water emulsions. Classic uses Propylene Glycol as an antifreeze agent while II has about 8% methanol which is very toxic. Classic seems to hold up a bit better on the wood in the hot weather here, maybe be cause of the propylene glycol. Titebond II, maybe in a pinch, but we don't want to make the end grain impervious to losing moisture, just slow it down to stop cracking. Mixing with that much water might work or it might be a placebo. Some of my friends who use Anchorseal stretch it out so thin on the wood that one gallon ought to be a lifetime supply, but I think that they are both being cheap and wasting their time. When I apply Anchorseal, I mop it on very thick and sometimes two applications on end grain if the wood is left outdoors. Our club buys Anchorseal in bulk and sells it for $9 a gallon to club members so it is much cheaper than buying it from Woodcraft or Rocklers. And, a gallon lasts a very long time even when applying it thick like I do. I pour some in an old coffee can and use a 50 cent paintbrush to smear it around, but an old t-shirt will also work. I've also used my bare hands and a side benefit is that it gives my hands soft smooth skin and hides wrinkles and cracks.

 

[hockenbery]

Hu

I use anchor seal on half logs and have used it on roughed out bowls with great success.
It slows the drying by blocking the escape of water. It lets moisture through slowly so that bowl roughouts can in fact dry but take 8-12 months.

Round bowl blanks I wrap in plastic for a day or two if I can't turn it the day I cut it.
I have frozen them for several months. I do not think anchor seal will keep bowl blanks from cracking more than a week at best.
My half logs develop end checks with the anchor seal. I plan on cutting off at least 2" from both ends of the half log to eliminate the end checks.
Don't have this luxury in a round blank.
If you want to keep round bowl blanks use parafin as John suggested.

I just cut the blanks as I turn them storing the wood in the half log. Some of my half logs will have 2 maybe 3 blanks. It will cut all the blanks round when I process the half log. Any that I cannot turn that day I put in plastic bags. I have need using shrink wrap for this quite often.

As to the half logs. The wood will generally get ugly before it cracks. Within a few weeks the sapwood will begin to grey and loose its white color.
Bleach can bring it back a little. After about 2 months it may not be worth turning for me.

When I lived I'm Maryland the cold keeps the wood fresh in fall and winter. A log cut and stacked in October likely would ha little discoloration in march.
While a log cut in May might be dis-colored badly by the end if June.

Have fun,
Al

 

[David Hill]

Hu,
I"m in SE Texas and it likely gets as hot'n humid here as it does where you are.
I use Anchorseal 2 on my logs. The bulk of my wood is outside, off the ground, and tarped (You should see that part of my yard....well--maybe not). The anchorseal works fine, and does go a long way; mine goes on with a brush. Like John says, I expect some checking, that gets cut out later, & mold too--although some of that makes spalting. If I run out of it I just use paraffin the same way.
Only thing is when I go to get some wood I have to watch for scorpions (common around here) and copperheads (just about as common).

 

[Hu Lowery]

Thanks to You All!

Years ago I tried all sorts of things rather than Anchorseal for the false impression that there was something less expensive. I tried glue,roofing tar, caulking, latex paint, and then finally Anchorseal. What I found was wood storage is the most important. Keep it covered to keep the wind and UV off of it. Anchorseal turns out to really not be that expensive because it goes a long way. I use it on the logs after cutting. The other products turned out to be either messy or didn't work as well as Anchorseal. I put 2 coats on which seams to help with the checking a lot.
What I usually do is stack the logs on end when I get home. That effectively seals one end. Then I put a plastic bag or stretch wrap over them. They tend to sit like that longer than they should but it works to keep them from checking. They do get mold on the end but I'm going to cut that off any way. when I have time i either cut them up into pieces that can be stored more easily or into bowl or hollow form blanks. The big pieces are sealed with Anchorseal. The bowl blanks are sealed with Parrafin wax that I melt in an old electric skillet. Wax is flammable so don't use an open flame. I've stored bowl blanks for a year or more this way and it doesn't seem to cost much. If it won't roll in my pan I seal it Anchorseal.
If my logs start to check I cut them into turning blanks. I cut through the checked split and then mark the ends for squares such as 4x4, 5x5, 3x3, 2x2, etc as long as the log section is. I seal the ends with wax and put them on the shop floor to dry. If I can I may cut bowl blanks out of it if there's enough wood somewhere.
Anyway back to your original question. There are so many different ways to store wood in different parts of the country. I think each person has to try and find what works for them in their local and with their style of turning and where they store the wood. My experiments which lacked any kind of scientific validity told me that glue didn't work as well as Anchorseal. I've been playing with this dilemma for about 10 0r 12 years now and what I described above has saved me more wood than anything else I've tried. Your results may differ due to where you are and how you store the wood. Oh forgot, I never cut the pith out. It may or may not be a good idea, I just don't get around to it. Ripping logs is fare more difficult for my saw than cross cutting so I just don't mess with it and haven't seen any worse loss in my wood.

John,

I can add plain house enamel to your list of things that didn't work, even with two heavy coats. I will give a general answer at bottom but I am getting very severe cracking, ruining six foot log sections on down in just a few months. I do appreciate your information that you have already ran this rabbit trying a wide variety of stuff. Learning from other's experience is much cheaper and less time consuming than having to try everything myself!

I do think I have to try splitting my logs, takes a little strain off of them I would think and not that big a deal with my chainsaw and a sharp chain. I just threw a couple dozen log sections on the burn pile, some whole log sections only about fifty percent longer than the diameter of the log, some several times as long. Also some half sections. Might have salvaged some of the wood but probably less than 20%. I am having that much of an issue with cracking including wood stored inside a little brick building all winter.

Anchorseal Classic or Anchorseal II -- not much difference although I prefer the Classic. Both are wax/water emulsions. Classic uses Propylene Glycol as an antifreeze agent while II has about 8% methanol which is very toxic. Classic seems to hold up a bit better on the wood in the hot weather here, maybe be cause of the propylene glycol. Titebond II, maybe in a pinch, but we don't want to make the end grain impervious to losing moisture, just slow it down to stop cracking. Mixing with that much water might work or it might be a placebo. Some of my friends who use Anchorseal stretch it out so thin on the wood that one gallon ought to be a lifetime supply, but I think that they are both being cheap and wasting their time. When I apply Anchorseal, I mop it on very thick and sometimes two applications on end grain if the wood is left outdoors. Our club buys Anchorseal in bulk and sells it for $9 a gallon to club members so it is much cheaper than buying it from Woodcraft or Rocklers. And, a gallon lasts a very long time even when applying it thick like I do. I pour some in an old coffee can and use a 50 cent paintbrush to smear it around, but an old t-shirt will also work. I've also used my bare hands and a side benefit is that it gives my hands soft smooth skin and hides wrinkles and cracks.

Bill,

I am casting eyes on a tallow tree to keep me entertained until I get some Anchorseal Classic here to cut better wood. I'll probably smear some pure Titebond II on some of those tallow tree cuts just because I have a gallon here. There are enough tallow trees on the place and I value them so highly that they are the perfect thing to experiment on. Gonna have to get the Anchorseal though, the baby soft hands sold me.

Hu

I use anchor seal on half logs and have used it on roughed out bowls with great success.
It slows the drying by blocking the escape of water. It lets moisture through slowly so that bowl roughouts can in fact dry but take 8-12 months.

Round bowl blanks I wrap in plastic for a day or two if I can't turn it the day I cut it.
I have frozen them for several months. I do not think anchor seal will keep bowl blanks from cracking more than a week at best.
My half logs develop end checks with the anchor seal. I plan on cutting off at least 2" from both ends of the half log to eliminate the end checks.
Don't have this luxury in a round blank.
If you want to keep round bowl blanks use parafin as John suggested.

I just cut the blanks as I turn them storing the wood in the half log. Some of my half logs will have 2 maybe 3 blanks. It will cut all the blanks round when I process the half log. Any that I cannot turn that day I put in plastic bags. I have need using shrink wrap for this quite often.

As to the half logs. The wood will generally get ugly before it cracks. Within a few weeks the sapwood will begin to grey and loose its white color.
Bleach can bring it back a little. After about 2 months it may not be worth turning for me.

When I lived I'm Maryland the cold keeps the wood fresh in fall and winter. A log cut and stacked in October likely would ha little discoloration in march.
While a log cut in May might be dis-colored badly by the end if June.

Have fun,
Al

Al,

I don't understand why I get so much worse cracking than those like yourself that I would think are in very similar climates. My whole logs and sections were stored where they might have gotten sunlight two hours a day or less, I ruined the long pieces, short pieces, half logs, and logs. I am going to try the shrink wrap for some applications that you and John both mention. Freezing some special pieces is a thought too, I have an empty fairly large chest style freezer.

Thinking about it, this area is surprisingly windy and there is almost always at least a nice breeze where I stored my outside wood. Perhaps the wind is doing more damage than the sun, hadn't considered it.

Hu,
I"m in SE Texas and it likely gets as hot'n humid here as it does where you are.
I use Anchorseal 2 on my logs. The bulk of my wood is outside, off the ground, and tarped (You should see that part of my yard....well--maybe not). The anchorseal works fine, and does go a long way; mine goes on with a brush. Like John says, I expect some checking, that gets cut out later, & mold too--although some of that makes spalting. If I run out of it I just use paraffin the same way.
Only thing is when I go to get some wood I have to watch for scorpions (common around here) and copperheads (just about as common).

David,

Happy to say that while we have our share of copperheads and I have an acre pond full of snakes next to my house, I don't have scorpions! Black widows, brown widows, a couple other spiders with a pretty nasty bite but I have never seen a scorpion in Louisiana. Of course I never saw a roadrunner until about twenty years ago.

I can live with a few inches of checking, my cracks are often end to end. I can tarp wood on this property with no real issues other than the varmints, no wife unit to cause cracks in the wood and my noggin when the two meet.



General Reply:

First a very sincere thank you to everyone! All of the slightly different perspectives are very helpful. My wood looks like it is end checked but the cracks don't stop, often going end to end of a twenty-four inch or longer piece. I suspect I have a combination of problems, some wood was stored in direct sunlight, some in the little building, and some in a tin barn that can get very hot in the summer. Some was in heavy shade but as mentioned above, in a very breezy area.

I am going to stick some pure Titebond II on some sample chunks of tallow I am planning to fresh cut tomorrow. Regardless of how that seems to work I am going to order five gallons of Anchorseal Classic. Two coats on the ends and about an inch in, might experiment with a light coat on the raw side of some of the half logs. I have to find a way to keep my wood alive, starting to have requests for pieces and no wood fit to turn. Fortunately most just have to be ready for Christmas.

Thank You One and All!

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hu, it might be that the wood in your neck of the woods is simply wetter than in a comparatively dry area like where I live.lots of water means lots of shrinking. You might possibly find it necessary to split the wood and remove the pith area. Some species of wood like post oak will split if you look at it funny.

 

[Hu Lowery]

busted!

Hu, it might be that the wood in your neck of the woods is simply wetter than in a comparatively dry area like where I live.lots of water means lots of shrinking. You might possibly find it necessary to split the wood and remove the pith area. Some species of wood like post oak will split if you look at it funny.

Bill,

Now you tell me! I have been known to give the wood some funny looks but I do contend that it looked funny before I ever saw it.

Might be an issue with how much water is in this wood. All of it is quite wet unless it is something like the peconcrete with a few inches of rot on the outside and rock hard wood underneath. I cut a slab of that considering playing with it. Had second thoughts and that stuff is even badly cracked a month or two later. It has just laid in mostly direct sunlight though.

Green stuff or stuff starting to decay holds water like a sponge. I have cut enough of this tallow to expect it to be very wet at best and this one is growing in a little bottom, I would be very surprised if the water table was over two feet down. Got a turning jones going and no wood though, something has got to die! A tallow tree is my first choice.

Hu

 

[Gretch Flo]

I am NOT going to visit David or Hu (snakes) Gretch

 

[hockenbery]

Hu,

Wood has a shelf life. The older wood is the more color it losses and the more it dries and cracks.
Whole logs 8-12 feet long can last 6 months to a couple years but you have to discard a foot or so from the ends.
For me half logs won't crack but the do rot.

I do a demo on turning green wood. The first part is a slide show. You will know a good bit of this.
The main theme is a quick look at why experienced turners bowls do not crack and how the deck is stacked a bit against new turners.
You might find reading through it will reinforce what you know and give some iSight as to what happens with wood

http://aaw.hockenbery.net/Working With green wood CFW 2011.pdf

Al

 

[Hu Lowery]

Thank You!

Hu,

Wood has a shelf life. The older wood is the more color it losses and the more it dries and cracks.
Whole logs 8-12 feet long can last 6 months to a couple years but you have to discard a foot or so from the ends.
For me half logs won't crack but the do rot.

I do a demo on turning green wood. The first part is a slide show. You will know a good bit of this.
The main theme is a quick look at why experienced turners bowls do not crack and how the deck is stacked a bit against new turners.
You might find reading through it will reinforce what you know and give some iSight as to what happens with wood

http://aaw.hockenbery.net/Working With green wood CFW 2011.pdf

Al

Al,

As you say, very basic but some good information and some things I haven't been doing, including misting. Have to put a water bottle by my lathe, then I will remember. With a little thought I realize how wood is trying to warp but I don't always give it that thought. Need to spend a little more time planning before starting to turn.

I think my green wood turning time is fairly rapid, considerably more than twenty minutes though. I have a fourteen inch bandsaw, if I can get it moved over here and a pair of risers put on it that might reduce my time quite a bit but I suspect that I get the wood through the turning stage in adequate time, I rarely have bowls or vessels crack in turning, before and after are issues. I have broken a couple bowls dropping them, one from not much over waist high onto carpet. I suspected tension in the bowl being a part of the issue but it broke several months ago and the crack hasn't opened up or moved. Ugly bowl or I would probably repair it. Most of the "after" issues were early attempts that I fully understand why they broke, almost always shape issues. Butterfingered a few onto concrete too when playing with my new buffing system. That last bounce gets them every time!

The entire PDF is very helpful and much appreciated. I have some very in-depth documents but it is easy to lose the core points in all of the dense reading. The PDF reminds me of the basics and makes me consider if I am really following them. A few places that I ain't!

Thank You!

Hu

 

[Hu Lowery]

less of a problem where I lived before . . .

I am NOT going to visit David or Hu (snakes) Gretch

Gretch,

The snakes were less of a problem when I lived down in the wetlands. The alligators kept them thinned out pretty good. Been thinking about importing a gator or two to put in my pond. Not sure what I have in there now, looks like a snake but has about three feet of back sticking out the water a couple inches swimming and kicks a wake like a small tug. I have nicknamed it Nessy for obvious reasons.

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

... Not sure what I have in there now, looks like a snake but has about three feet of back sticking out the water a couple inches swimming and kicks a wake like a small tug...

Sounds like a "croc" to me.

 

[Jerry Bailey]

hu, I live in a fairly dry climate, 2500 feet altitude, rains maybe 3-4 times a year
gets very hot here, last year had a month where it stayed 115-127 F, and we always have plenty of wind
(last week 3 days 40-60 MPH) that's common throughout the year (funny in Cali. they call it Santa Ana winds)
have quite a few logs of Mesquite, Cottonwood, Birch, Ash, Maple, Walnut, and Pecan (8-20" diameter, 3-6' long)
I double coat the ends with Artisan Wood Sealer (from Craft USA), keep them on side of house that gets no sun, covered with a tarp.
Have kept them there so far for 3-6 months, and not one end has cracked/checked on me yet (am knocking on wood now).
My logs don't seem to crack, but have several issues drying bowl (both rough turned, and finish turned), seem to lose about 1/2
Have tried the 24 hour DNA bath, didn't do a bit of good on rough turned bowl, still cracked ...............

as a newbie myself, dunno what else to tell you ...........

Al, thanks for posting the pdf file, will read & re-read thru it also

 

[Hu Lowery]

Thanks Jerry!

Sounds like a "croc" to me.

Bill did you lose a K?

hu, I live in a fairly dry climate, 2500 feet altitude, rains maybe 3-4 times a year
gets very hot here, last year had a month where it stayed 115-127 F, and we always have plenty of wind
(last week 3 days 40-60 MPH) that's common throughout the year (funny in Cali. they call it Santa Ana winds)
have quite a few logs of Mesquite, Cottonwood, Birch, Ash, Maple, Walnut, and Pecan (8-20" diameter, 3-6' long)
I double coat the ends with Artisan Wood Sealer (from Craft USA), keep them on side of house that gets no sun, covered with a tarp.
Have kept them there so far for 3-6 months, and not one end has cracked/checked on me yet (am knocking on wood now).
My logs don't seem to crack, but have several issues drying bowl (both rough turned, and finish turned), seem to lose about 1/2
Have tried the 24 hour DNA bath, didn't do a bit of good on rough turned bowl, still cracked ...............

as a newbie myself, dunno what else to tell you ...........

Al, thanks for posting the pdf file, will read & re-read thru it also

Jerry,

Everyone's experience has value, I dislike seeing sites use "newbie" because it carries a negative connotation many places. I made my living in R&D for awhile and definitely learned knowledge is where you find it. A good friend had maybe a third grade education. After students had gained their Masters in Agriculture and were going for a PhD they were sent to Red to learn how to farm and handle livestock. He might not have known the scientific reasons behind why something worked but if he told you it worked you could write it on a rock!

I'm thinking the main issue I am having is the amount of free moisture in this wood to begin with. Perhaps my issue is concerning how fast the initial drying takes place.

The issues you are having are likely to be caused by thickness, variation in thickness, shape, or tiny cracks that were there when you turned the piece and were not noticed. Those hairline cracks that are so difficult to see are the reason I decided not to waste time turning wood to find the few good blanks in my piles of old blanks. If you can take some photographs of the pieces with issues I'm sure the people on this forum can and will be of help. They have been a tremendous help to me.

Thank you for your detailed post. It was a help, told me that wind or sun alone weren't my issue. Every piece of information adds to the picture I am gaining.

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you build it, they will come ...

.... Everyone's experience has value, I dislike seeing sites use "newbie" because it carries a negative connotation many places. .....

I understand what you are saying. Here is a little history on this forum. Many years ago, there was only the one AAW forum -- no sub-forums or multiple categories. It was fairly active -- more active than it is today, but appearing to either not be growing fast enough or at least not nearly as fast as some other related watering holes on the Internet. There were frequent discussions about things that could be done to improve its popularity. That's a complex question and requires a lot of serious research to get a real handle on the wants and needs of the woodturning community. Some other forums that were growing very rapidly found that having just one forum caused the equivalent of traffic gridlock with topics scrolling off the page as soon as they were posted. Those forums found it necessary to create multiple forum categories to spread out the load. For example one photography forum that I belong to now has around 50 sub forums. An astronomy forum has at lest 25 sub forums. The impression that I got here is that some people believed that the cause and effect relationship worked both ways -- in other words, have more sub forums and therefore there would be greater participation. Maybe a consultant was hired to come up with that idea -- I don't know. There were discussions on what sort of sub forums could be created. I don't recall if the Newbie was the only one created initially, but I know that it wasn't long before there were a number of sub forums. Some made good sense, but Newbie? -- I don't know ... I have read numerous comments here, but mostly on other Internet forums over the years concerning the negative connotations that the AAW Newbie forum carries. It seems like I always wound up painting myself into a corner when trying to justify its purpose. On the other hand, there are probably others who feel more comfortable in a Newbie forum. Are we doing the right things or do we need to reassess where we are in terms of serving the woodturning community and where we plan to be in the future.

Something to think about -- overall, participation in Internet forums is on the decline and has been for at least a couple years.

 

[hockenbery]

hu, I live in a fairly dry climate, 2500 feet altitude, rains maybe 3-4 times a year gets very hot here, last year had a month where it stayed 115-127 F, and we always have plenty of wind (last week 3 days 40-60 MPH) that's common throughout the year (funny in Cali. they call it Santa Ana winds) have quite a few logs of Mesquite, Cottonwood, Birch, Ash, Maple, Walnut, and Pecan (8-20" diameter, 3-6' long) I double coat the ends with Artisan Wood Sealer (from Craft USA), keep them on side of house that gets no sun, covered with a tarp. Have kept them there so far for 3-6 months, and not one end has cracked/checked on me yet (am knocking on wood now). My logs don't seem to crack, but have several issues drying bowl (both rough turned, and finish turned), seem to lose about 1/2 Have tried the 24 hour DNA bath, didn't do a bit of good on rough turned bowl, still cracked ............... as a newbie myself, dunno what else to tell you ........... Al, thanks for posting the pdf file, will read & re-read thru it also

Love those western winds,
You folks call it spring. We call it a hurricane.

In dry climates you have to slow the drying.

Biggest thing for success in drying bowls is smooth curves so the wood can move and even wall thickness so it can move and dry evenly.
Avoid any sharp edges.
Good luck,
Al

 

[Scott Hackler]

I am a firm believer that your local temperature swings and humidity play a big part in sealing green wood and in the drying process. I started with the original Anchorseal and it worked fantastic. I would half the logs to remove the pith and seal up the ends the cut side (left the bark on), then store them on the north side of my shop on a pallet, under a tarp. Very little checking after a year on sycamore and black walnut. Oak would check a bit more. Maple not at all.

Ran out and they stopped making the original formula for a bit (or at lease stopped selling it where I shopped!) so I bought 2 gallons of Anchorseal2. HATE IT AND WILL NEVER USE IT AGAIN! Is that clear enough? Every half log would be cracked to the point of firewood, within 3-4 months. So 3 weeks ago I ordered a 5 gallon pale of the classic formula and will be set for a few years.


On drying, for here in KS... .I found that roughing to 10% thickness, Dna soak for at lease 24 hours and newspaper wrapped while storing on a bottom shelf without air flow.... allows for a 4-6 week drying time with about a 95% success rate. I don't weigh the wood, I just pick up the "packages" after 4-5 weeks and smell. If I can still smell the alcohol, I put it back. No smell of alcohol and I call it dry. At that point I will either unwrap the blank and throw it back on the shelf or take it right to the lathe for re-turning and finishing.

I tried other methods to dry and coating the roughouts in Anchorseal works but it took a year to dry and I am not that patient. A bag with shavings and the roughout produced cracking and mold. Air drying just produced cracking. Find what works for you and stick with it!

 

[Hu Lowery]

Thank You Scott for the help and the laugh!

I am a firm believer that your local temperature swings and humidity play a big part in sealing green wood and in the drying process. I started with the original Anchorseal and it worked fantastic. I would half the logs to remove the pith and seal up the ends the cut side (left the bark on), then store them on the north side of my shop on a pallet, under a tarp. Very little checking after a year on sycamore and black walnut. Oak would check a bit more. Maple not at all.

Ran out and they stopped making the original formula for a bit (or at lease stopped selling it where I shopped!) so I bought 2 gallons of Anchorseal2. HATE IT AND WILL NEVER USE IT AGAIN! Is that clear enough? Every half log would be cracked to the point of firewood, within 3-4 months. So 3 weeks ago I ordered a 5 gallon pale of the classic formula and will be set for a few years.


On drying, for here in KS... .I found that roughing to 10% thickness, Dna soak for at lease 24 hours and newspaper wrapped while storing on a bottom shelf without air flow.... allows for a 4-6 week drying time with about a 95% success rate. I don't weigh the wood, I just pick up the "packages" after 4-5 weeks and smell. If I can still smell the alcohol, I put it back. No smell of alcohol and I call it dry. At that point I will either unwrap the blank and throw it back on the shelf or take it right to the lathe for re-turning and finishing.

I tried other methods to dry and coating the roughouts in Anchorseal works but it took a year to dry and I am not that patient. A bag with shavings and the roughout produced cracking and mold. Air drying just produced cracking. Find what works for you and stick with it!

Scott,

I cut a popcorn tree down today and it was late evening when I got through cutting it up. I'll seal it first thing in the morning with Titebond II simply because that is all I have. I'm going to try the Anchorseal Classic as soon as possible, got to get it shipped in. Probably going to try the DNA eventually too, mixed reports but I want to at least try it. Not terribly concerned about waste with the tallow tree so I may seal just one end of some blanks for direct comparison.

I'm pretty sure I caught your subtle hint about Anchorseal II!

Thanks a bunch for your post. As I said earlier, every new post helps fill out the total picture for me.

I understand what you are saying. Here is a little history on this forum. Many years ago, there was only the one AAW forum -- no sub-forums or multiple categories. It was fairly active -- more active than it is today, but appearing to either not be growing fast enough or at least not nearly as fast as some other related watering holes on the Internet. There were frequent discussions about things that could be done to improve its popularity. That's a complex question and requires a lot of serious research to get a real handle on the wants and needs of the woodturning community. Some other forums that were growing very rapidly found that having just one forum caused the equivalent of traffic gridlock with topics scrolling off the page as soon as they were posted. Those forums found it necessary to create multiple forum categories to spread out the load. For example one photography forum that I belong to now has around 50 sub forums. An astronomy forum has at lest 25 sub forums. The impression that I got here is that some people believed that the cause and effect relationship worked both ways -- in other words, have more sub forums and therefore there would be greater participation. Maybe a consultant was hired to come up with that idea -- I don't know. There were discussions on what sort of sub forums could be created. I don't recall if the Newbie was the only one created initially, but I know that it wasn't long before there were a number of sub forums. Some made good sense, but Newbie? -- I don't know ... I have read numerous comments here, but mostly on other Internet forums over the years concerning the negative connotations that the AAW Newbie forum carries. It seems like I always wound up painting myself into a corner when trying to justify its purpose. On the other hand, there are probably others who feel more comfortable in a Newbie forum. Are we doing the right things or do we need to reassess where we are in terms of serving the woodturning community and where we plan to be in the future.

Something to think about -- overall, participation in Internet forums is on the decline and has been for at least a couple years.

Bill,

I haven't found the general attitude towards newcomers to the forum or to turning at all unwelcome here, it is just the name I find a little distasteful from past attitudes other places. I am making a bit of an effort to minimize my footprint on the internet myself though, it can easily be a time waster. Problem is that I start conversations on the net when I have leisure time but then it is hard to ignore them when I need to be doing other things. No TV reception here so I replace the idiot box with the net. Most of the time it is an improvement!

Which forum will be most popular seems largely a matter of luck, maybe a lot to do with the early posters you attract and the tone of the forum which the owners have limited control of. What I see over and over now is the overfragmentation of forums. One is too crowded so three or four are better. Maybe. However often the fragmentation continues until there is no community left. There are websites that let you monitor the value of other websites. Highly debatable concerning the accuracy of the valuation but particularly if you use the same valuation site over time it is a good way to judge the relative health of a website. I have never seen a website that doesn't have a hard downturn in value after fragmentation and the value never returns, or hasn't on any of the websites I monitor. Two friends own one and they have put in a management company after the value of their site fell from over thirty thousand to under eight thousand after fragmentation. Curious how this will work out.

I think decisions to split forums should be weighed very carefully and it is certainly a mistake to give every little clique or niche group their own forum. Also a mistake not to keep the main forum fairly narrowly focused on the primary subject if you are going to divide forums. I agree with a main forum, a coffee shop, and a classified forum. More than that needs to be thought about long and hard.

I wonder if texting is what has bit into web traffic? Unbelieveable how many texts some people send a month. Somebody sends me more than three texts in a row I tell them to call me, not into poking too little of keys on a not so very smart phone.

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

Fixing things that aren't necessarily broken can have undesired results. A nice little neighborhood barbeque place became very popular so they moved to a fancy new building, changed the menu to be more upscale to match their new environment and threw in upscale prices for good measure. Hardly ever see many cars there now.

 

[David Hill]

Aw come on--- (minor hijack)

I am NOT going to visit David or Hu (snakes) Gretch

The snakes aren't THAT bad, but are a nuisance--besides I'd treat you for free.
Copperheads while venomous, aren't nearly as bad as rattlesnakes--seems some writers have made them out to be really bad a** critters.
Scorpions here are more of a bad bee sting and don't get big----so don't let these deter you from travel.

And yes we have our share of Black widows too (those really are bad on people--one of the worst things to be bitten by)--have treated a couple of folks for those ( and NOT from my yard!)

As for all of the other stuff about participation, etc--guess I'll just monitor that. Like a lot of others, I go where I'm comfortable.

Hu, believe that you'll find that Popcorn/Tallow trees are really bad about splitting & be careful with turning them--can be noxious.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Thank You David!

The snakes aren't THAT bad, but are a nuisance--besides I'd treat you for free.
Copperheads while venomous, aren't nearly as bad as rattlesnakes--seems some writers have made them out to be really bad a** critters.
Scorpions here are more of a bad bee sting and don't get big----so don't let these deter you from travel.

And yes we have our share of Black widows too (those really are bad on people--one of the worst things to be bitten by)--have treated a couple of folks for those ( and NOT from my yard!)

As for all of the other stuff about participation, etc--guess I'll just monitor that. Like a lot of others, I go where I'm comfortable.

Hu, believe that you'll find that Popcorn/Tallow trees are really bad about splitting & be careful with turning them--can be noxious.

David,

I did know the tallow trees are bad about splitting, figured they would be a serious test of my splitting remedies! I have plenty of them and don't care how many I cut down so the biggest deal is cleaning up the mess. This one was where it had been heavily shaded so was close to seventy feet tall with very little canopy.

I didn't realize that they could be noxious. I have cut, burned, and handled dozens of the trees over the years so I don't think I have issues there however I will be wary of dust. Inhaling things can be a horse of a different color.

Interestingly much of the wet wood cut like butter but I did encounter some very hard spots cutting it up too. I don't know what that is all about but I suspect that I will find out when I put a gouge to it.

About participation, I think you will find yourself quite comfortable here. One of the more comfortable places to hang out at on the net.

Thank you very much for the reminder about splitting and the warning concerning potential reactions to the tallow!

Hu

 

[Gretch Flo]

Brown recluse???? Have seen some nasty wounds thru the internet and my brother that lived in Texas in the winter, Gretch

 

[David Hill]

Brown recluse???? Have seen some nasty wounds thru the internet and my brother that lived in Texas in the winter, Gretch

Forgot about those
Yes Gretch we have those too. If you know Biology, these spiders are EXTREMELY common--but most don't see them-hence the name, they are masterful hiders. I agree that their bite has bad consequences with tissue destruction,etc, but are treatable to an extent. Funny thing is, their "bite" is initially painless for the most part, the bad stuff comes later--but that's another discussion. (Risks of knowing a Woodturning Wildlife& Fisheries/Teacher guy turned Physician)

 

[Hu Lowery]

no real surprise, anchorseal in route!

The crack happy popcorn wood is splitting despite the Titebond II. Not really surprised and I don't know that Anchorseal will do much better on that wood. It was wet enough to wring out like a sponge when I cut it.

Five gallons of Anchorseal Classic is headed my way. I won't cut anything down that I value the wood from until it gets here.

Hu

 

[David Hill]

Atta boy!
If you come this direction, I might have some Mesquite laying around.

 

[Hu Lowery]

might have to go with plan "B"

Atta boy!
If you come this direction, I might have some Mesquite laying around.

If you have mesquite laying around I think the thing to do is scare up some red meat! Hard to beat a nice thick steak cooked over mesquite. As much stuff in a tree trunk that isn't a bowl or hollow form I guess we could just use charcoal and the shavings soaked in water. Either way, if I had plenty of mesquite laying around I'd spend more time barbecuing than I would turning. I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables!

May have to pay you a visit, I'll get started on turning skewers tomorrow.

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hi, I'm sure that you won't believe this since mesquite is generally just scrubby brush, but it sometimes grows to respectable size if left alone. Our club had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity several years ago when we had the good fortune of harvesting some mesquite from the Trinity bottoms near DFW airport. We worked for two weekends and harvested around 60,000 pounds as a conservative estimate. The best part of this was that the trees were very large -- the biggest one being about four feet in diameter. I managed to get one of the large pieces that was close to three feet in diameter and almost as long. I also got some "small" pieces that were around 18 inches in diameter. I understand that there are some other places along the Trinity south of the metroplex with similar sized trees, but essentially inaccessible. A few custom furniture builders also have some secret locations where they harvest some of these giants.

If you have never turned mesquite then you have missed the ultimate in woodturning. When green, it turns like butter. I frequently turn green mesquite to completion in one fell swoop because it is so dimensionally stable that there is very little warping. It isn't uncommon to find ring shake in mesquite, but it won't crack while turning it. Generally the shake is structurally sound, but easy to tell if it isn't. Leaving the pith in is not a problem. The bad news is that mesquite will spoil you rotten and you will not want to turn anything else.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Hi, I'm sure that you won't believe this since mesquite is generally just scrubby brush, but it sometimes grows to respectable size if left alone. Our club had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity several years ago when we had the good fortune of harvesting some mesquite from the Trinity bottoms near DFW airport. We worked for two weekends and harvested around 60,000 pounds as a conservative estimate. The best part of this was that the trees were very large -- the biggest one being about four feet in diameter. I managed to get one of the large pieces that was close to three feet in diameter and almost as long. I also got some "small" pieces that were around 18 inches in diameter. I understand that there are some other places along the Trinity south of the metroplex with similar sized trees, but essentially inaccessible. A few custom furniture builders also have some secret locations where they harvest some of these giants.

If you have never turned mesquite then you have missed the ultimate in woodturning. When green, it turns like butter. I frequently turn green mesquite to completion in one fell swoop because it is so dimensionally stable that there is very little warping. It isn't uncommon to find ring shake in mesquite, but it won't crack while turning it. Generally the shake is structurally sound, but easy to tell if it isn't. Leaving the pith in is not a problem. The bad news is that mesquite will spoil you rotten and you will not want to turn anything else.

Bill,

I have seen a little good sized mesquite, just a stray tree or three here and there. You are right, I usually think of the small stuff which is maybe twenty or thirty feet tall, rarely more than fifty. I am big wood shopping right now, it takes a lot of tree as you know to make a decent bowl. I know it in my head, just can't quite convince my hands. Then I'm trying to make a piece bigger than the blank allows. Got to do some serious timber cruising. Looking for stuff with no commercial value other than to turners.

Got to make some connections or maybe just get a good trailer. I have two cousins with tree services but they are up the road a piece. Fifty dollars worth of gas, I need to tote some wood back.

Hu

 

[Jerry Bailey]

because of one of Bill's responses to a much earlier post I made when joining the forum,
am loving working with mesquite, couple of my logs are 22" diameter, and some smaller ones I saved for making vases
Only thing I don't like about it, is having to wear my raincoat while turning, all the neighbors look at me funny ........
well, just maybe the raincoat's not why they look at me funny
It is a pleasure to turn, and one wood I never have an issue with cracking when drying .
Grains and coloring sure does pop when I get my oils/wax applied and buffed!

 

[Hu Lowery]

none around here

because of one of Bill's responses to a much earlier post I made when joining the forum,
am loving working with mesquite, couple of my logs are 22" diameter, and some smaller ones I saved for making vases
Only thing I don't like about it, is having to wear my raincoat while turning, all the neighbors look at me funny ........
well, just maybe the raincoat's not why they look at me funny
It is a pleasure to turn, and one wood I never have an issue with cracking when drying .
Grains and coloring sure does pop when I get my oils/wax applied and buffed!

Jerry,

Unfortunately no mesquite anywhere around here. I'd have to import it from another country, Texas or somewhere.

I turn something pretty juicy around here sometimes, pretty sure that is when I learned to do most of my roughing from one side or t'other with a pull cut going away from me. A handful of the popcorn shavings cooled me off in a hurry, more and I would have gotten soaked. What I really hate is the naturally aged stuff found in the woods somewhere. It is turning nicely then the pieces of grubs start flying!

You and Bill sure have me wanting some mesquite now. The bigger pieces for turning, the smaller ones for barbecue.

Hu

 

[Hu Lowery]

Anchorseal, shaken or stirred?

Got my five gallons of anchorseal in Friday last. I was a little concerned about service, it took them a week to debit my credit card. Shouldn't have been concerned, the anchorseal was on my doorstep the next day. Fast shipping especially for "free shipping" from that far away. Well pleased so far.

While they tell me all the ways I can apply it, what I don't see is how well it stays mixed. Should I take the lid off and stir it or just use the handy dandy spout to pour some out and go to slathering it on logs, bowls, blanks, and toast?

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

It is an emulsion so unlike paint, there is no mixing needed. However, try to store it where the temperature is reasonable. Outdoors in the sun isn't exactly reasonable. It seems to have a long shelf life, butI suspect that if you haven't used it up in three years, you might see it starting to change. I have some over three years old -- slightly yellowed and somewhat thicker than when new. It is an emulsion so adding water is not the answer. It is still perfectly usable, but use it fast enough that you won't need to worry about it going south on you. Use it generously. Spreading it to a molecule thick layer will give results commensurate with the degree of cheapness employed. I mop the stuff on because some will soak into the wood and I want to ensure that there is enough remaining on the surface to be truly effective.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Thank You!

It is an emulsion so unlike paint, there is no mixing needed. However, try to store it where the temperature is reasonable. Outdoors in the sun isn't exactly reasonable. It seems to have a long shelf life, butI suspect that if you haven't used it up in three years, you might see it starting to change. I have some over three years old -- slightly yellowed and somewhat thicker than when new. It is an emulsion so adding water is not the answer. It is still perfectly usable, but use it fast enough that you won't need to worry about it going south on you. Use it generously. Spreading it to a molecule thick layer will give results commensurate with the degree of cheapness employed. I mop the stuff on because some will soak into the wood and I want to ensure that there is enough remaining on the surface to be truly effective.

Bill,

You almost always not only answer my questions but give a little extra value too. It is very sincerely much appreciated! My long stirring stick is a piece of one-by that I thought might cause the Anchorseal to overflow if I started poking it in the pouring spout to see if the Anchorseal was thicker near the bottom.

I deliberately bought the five gallon bucket so I wouldn't feel the need to stretch things. I mopped the glue on generously too, seems like it might have worked pretty good. However there isn't any significant savings over Anchorseal so using the stuff designed for the job seems smartest.

I don't know if I will get it done this week but I'm casting eyes on several trees that need to come down including a chinaberry snag. it is hollow, hopefully some good wood in it too though. Got the Anchorseal to play with, might try two coats for the first few weeks or month then if it seems no drying is taking place I'll scrape off the exterior wax and go with a single coat. I'll have to find the protocol that works for me and my wood but I won't fail being penny smart and pound foolish. I hate burning badly cracked wood I already have time, work, and money in.

Thank You!

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

This is the time of year when wood is very wet, so don't expect to much drying in one month. The thickness of the Anchorseal isn't critical as long as you have enough for solid coverage. I can't forsee a need to scrape any off. Weighing the wood periodically can tell you how things are progressing, but the easy way is to just leave it alone until you are ready to rought turn something. There are many ideas on the best treatment after roughing and mine is to coat the whole thing and let it dry for four to six months. Some wood warps more than others so you will have make mental notes about which ones warp more and therefore need to be thicker. I imagine that a fast growing tree like chinaberry would warp more than average. I was given some yard trees by a fellow turner and some was marked as chinaberry. I can't verify that it was correctly marked. But if itvwas then chinaberry is a very pretty wood.

 

[Hu Lowery]

pretty wood is what I saw too

This is the time of year when wood is very wet, so don't expect to much drying in one month. The thickness of the Anchorseal isn't critical as long as you have enough for solid coverage. I can't forsee a need to scrape any off. Weighing the wood periodically can tell you how things are progressing, but the easy way is to just leave it alone until you are ready to rought turn something. There are many ideas on the best treatment after roughing and mine is to coat the whole thing and let it dry for four to six months. Some wood warps more than others so you will have make mental notes about which ones warp more and therefore need to be thicker. I imagine that a fast growing tree like chinaberry would warp more than average. I was given some yard trees by a fellow turner and some was marked as chinaberry. I can't verify that it was correctly marked. But if itvwas then chinaberry is a very pretty wood.

Bill,

The pretty wood is why I'm casting eyes on that old snag. No idea the shape it is in, it does still have some green branches but they are small ones that came back after the trunk was snapped off about fifteen-twenty feet up or so. Katrina did a lot of tree damage through here and might be when this happened. Even the peconcrete cracks although it takes a few weeks to start. Going to burn most of that, it is indeed HARD! Now that I have a way to protect it I will keep a little too. The tallow I roughed out was looking OK last I looked, it is in a plastic garbage can with open top in a building with moderate ventilation and good shade most of the day. Plenty of shavings to serve as insulation on top of the blanks and no lid so hopefully doing OK. I went with fluffy shavings to hopefully breathe well. That tallow was wet enough that I mostly stood to the side while roughing, shower time.

When I worked with pool cues we called our wood a river of wood for the way it flowed through from fresh through the aging and processing steps to final use. Hurricane Isaac destroyed my river of wood, the main reason I quit messing with pool cues. So far I haven't been successful getting a river of wood started for standard turning and just burned all of my cracked up dangerous blanks a week ago.

I'm starting over, hopefully my river starts from here! That does mean that I'm turning some green stuff to completion and walking circles like one of the cartoon critters waiting for mail while this stuff dries. I'll probably play with the tallow a little bit pretty soon trying to force dry and I left some long sections of log that are up in the air to dry in the deep shade it was cut in. Might ease back there and cut off any checking and cracking and slap some Anchorseal on the ends of those logs. Need to cut and stack the tops anyway then I'll just leave it to decay where it lays in the woods for wildlife cover and to eventually release any nutrients back into the soil.

Hu

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Properties of an emulsion

It is an emulsion so unlike paint, there is no mixing needed. However, try to store it where the temperature is reasonable. Outdoors in the sun isn't exactly reasonable. It seems to have a long shelf life, butI suspect that if you haven't used it up in three years, you might see it starting to change. I have some over three years old -- slightly yellowed and somewhat thicker than when new. It is an emulsion so adding water is not the answer. It is still perfectly usable, but use it fast enough that you won't need to worry about it going south on you. Use it generously. Spreading it to a molecule thick layer will give results commensurate with the degree of cheapness employed. I mop the stuff on because some will soak into the wood and I want to ensure that there is enough remaining on the surface to be truly effective.

Bill, While most of what you say is true an emulsion can and does separate over time and wrong storage. Exposure to extreme temperature and time will cause an emulsion to go back to its original separate entities. Also improper preparation will cause this to occur earlier. Different entities will stay in this emulsified state longer than others and there are also emulsifying agents which encourage this emulsion to stay longer in this state. To state this in short a shake well label is not "required" but will not hurt to do so or "shake lightly" maybe.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... To state this in short a shake well label is not "required" but will not hurt to do so or "shake lightly" maybe.

Most definitely. It is hard to shake a 55 gallon drum, but after it is put into gallon jugs for distribution to members it probably wouldn't hurt -- not so much because there is any noticeable water separation, but because as it gets older it seems to get a bit lumpy or build up around constricted areas like the neck of a gallon glass jug (the kind that 'shine comes in). If using gallon size plastic jugs, I would caution against milk jugs. I have had a couple of them that were sitting in a metal cabinet in the garage for a long time suddenly decide to give way. I didn't discover it until it had sat several months -- long enough to lift the paint and turn a deep orange rust color. What a mess. The garage is now air conditioned so the problem is not as likely to occur I suppose, but I don't take chances with milk cartons after that mess. Gallon size Gatorade jugs are really heavy duty and won't break.