An idea for 2005 symposium

[Duane]

I have an idea for the AAW 2005 symposium in K.C. On Sat. evening after the banquet an auction is held. The items auctioned off are beautifull pieces of art donated by many famous and some soon to be famous turners. These pieces will bring from several hundred dollars each to several thousand dollars each. I wish I could buy one, but I cannot afford it. And, I know there are lots of folks at this auction who would love to buy one but can't afford it either. But I can aford a raffle ticket.
How about selling raffle tickets for a dollar or two each. How many tickets would buy at $2.00 each for a chance to own a work of art by a world famous woodturning artist that would normaly bring sevaral thousand dollars.
The piece chosen to be raffled off should be selected at random from those that were donated to be auctioned off at the Sat. night auction. And the proceeds from the raffle would still go to the AAW.
Think about it. Discuss it. And if you like the idea in some form or another then email the AAW .
Thanks.
Duane Leach

 

[Mike Schwing]

Duane, there is merit in your idea, and I'd buy that raffle ticket.

However, I know that at least _some_ of the turners who offer pieces for that auction do so for the exposure that it brings, and use it to justify and enhance the selling prices of their work. Were that my reason for donating an item (and lets face it, there probably are some folks who don't give a hoot about the charity aspect as it'll be a tax write off anyway), I'd be surely miffed if suddenly the auction price of my item went to zero. I'm afraid it might cause fewer items to be donated.

 

[Wilford Bickel]

I've worked a number of raffles before with other groups and the value issue is easily handled for tax purposes. The person donating sets the reasonable retail value (this can be justified a number of ways for example: using auction prices from last year, previous sales, etc.). The group (AAW) then gives a receipt for donation from individual in that amount. This clears the IRS issues and then the individual can use this value for advertising or can say my piece raised $X dollars from the raffle (which ever is higher!).

Wilford

 

[Mark Mandell]

Danger

Wilford,

I remember some years ago that the IRS put the clamps on the value of artists' donations, and established some rather strict rules, much of which were circumscribed by the artist's cost of materials; very different from donating ,say, a new car with a MSRP established. Seems some folks were abusing the whole charity donation process through high valuations to avoid paying taxes by getting huge charitable deductions. Imagine that. 🙄 The paradox was that the rules only applied to the artist who made the piece. If a collector made the donation of the same piece they had previously purchased, they got to bump the value with little question!!

I think you'd best check the IRS rules covering valuation of donations "in kind", etc. The donating artist may have to prove what their piece actually sold for in order to get a tax deduction for that amount only. I also remember being told by my accountant that claiming such deductions are "Reg Flags" and can easily trigger an audit. 🙁 😱

Mark

 

[pfduffy]

2005 Raffle??

Many years ago, long before I knew what a lathe was, we attended an auction to benefit the charities that the US Coast Guard wives of HI had chosen for their annual event. I bid and won a Ron Kent bowl! Several years later I introduced myself to him at an art show and nearly fell over when I realized how much my charity piece was worth. It is here in my office, a joy to see, and is certainly a daily inspiration. I don't think the price at the auction was even a consideration then, or now. It is worth every penny the charities gained through the generosity of Ron.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Wilford,

I remember some years ago that the IRS put the clamps on the value of artists' donations, and established some rather strict rules, much of which were circumscribed by the artist's cost of materials; Mark

That is my understanding as well. The artisit can only write off the cost of materials.

 

[Duane]

I am sure, some who donate their turnings for the AAW auction are doing so to further their own name only, with little or no regard for the charity. If we were able to find out the truth about this it would shock alot of folks.
Look at it like this. If a less famous turner's piece was selected for this raffle, and 1000 tickets were sold at $2.00 each = $2000. This is a reasonable guess. And this is probably more than it would have been sold for at the auction. This $2000. is the amount the turner can turn in to IRS. The raffle will be conducted with great fanfare at the auction. Thus the less known turner gets as much or more atention than he would have without the raffle. If the piece is by a big name turner he still gets all that attention, and that is what he was after in the first place.
The raffle drawing should be conducted with great fanfare so that next year even more folks will buy tickets, and the raffle will be an even bigger success.
Remember!!! All things are possible and change is usually for the best although usually unwanted.
Happy turning.
Duane Leach

 

[Wilford Bickel]

You are probably right -

Mark, Steve -

You may be much more up to date than I am on this valuation. The raffles I dealt with were for shotguns, rifles, etc. with a Volunteer Fire Department and we gave the shop owner a donation receipt for what he said his retail price was on the item. I have to use a CPA to keep me out of trouble with the IRS on the farm, much less this type of situation!! I feel certain if the group wanted to do this that valuation could be worked out.

Wilford

 

[Ron Overholtz]

Writing off donations

My accountant said what Steve said. With donations you can only write off the cost of the wood not what the piece might retail for.

 

[Steve Worcester]

My accountant said what Steve said. With donations you can only write off the cost of the wood not what the piece might retail for.

Once I found that out, I ust quit writing down the donations. Still donate, but no write off.

 

[Duane]

The ramifications of the tax laws for the folks who donate to this auction are not important for the discussion at hand. Becasue the tax laws are the same for the donaters no mater what happens to the piece.
The question at hand is should the AAW hold a raffle of one or more of the pieces of donated art.
Duane Leach

 

[gran]

I like the raffle idea particularly if you could buy tickets online. I'm not going to be able to go to but would love a chance to have one of those items. I would expand the base that would donate.

 

[rbagley]

Can I write off the cost of my ticket if I don't win?..................Just kidding.

 

[Dave Smith]

Online tickets makes the raffle even better.

Great idea Gran,

This is a money maker idea if I ever heard of one. It is going to cost me the equivalent of an auctioned turning or two to attend the Symposium. I don't expect to attend many Symposiums and unless my ship comes in I will never be bidding on a big ticket turning. Duane's idea of raffle tickets is a good idea. Your idea of extending the raffle to the entire wood turning community via the Internet makes perfect sense. The AAW will garner more income and the large membership world wide will have a chance to participate in an event they may rarely or never have a chance to attend. There is also the possibility that the AAW membership will expand due to the increased exposure of the raffled pieces.

Great ideas gentleman. I will be buying some raffle tickets when they become available.

Dave Smith

Hope I am a raffle winner in Longview, WA.