air powered sanders

[mrGeeze]

Note to Admin: Could you move this post to the General Forum? My mistake. Thank you


i'm thinking about entering the world of compressed air sanding.

I realize i need a bigger compressor, but I'm not sure which gun to use.
Any experienced air sanders out there?

Perhaps a thread someone could point me to.

Tips, tricks, do's dont's appreciated also


Thanks,

 

[Donna Banfield]

I use random orbital air sanders (ROS) on my work frequently. They have benefits and disadvantages.

Benefits: they give my bowls a superior finish, with a lower grit when compared with the corded drill power sanding or hand sanding with the lathe running. By that I mean a bowl sanded with a ROS up to 320 or 400 feels like it was sanded up to 600 or 800 by another means.

The scratch pattern varies significantly from the corded drills used in power sanding, helping remove the scratches from the previous grit more effectively.

Disadvantages: they consume a lot of air. I use a 60 gallon compressor. If your compressor will be in the same room that you're turning/sanding, it's going to get very noisy --- fast.

You can't run the lathe while using a ROS, because the orbit pattern of the sander will match the spin of the bowl, and you'll wind up with a 'spirograph' pattern that is very obvious, especially on the interior of the bowl/platter.

Because you're moving the work by hand, it takes longer to sand a bowl using this method. A 12" bowl will take roughly between 15-30 minutes longer.

ROS are best used as finish sanders, so higher grits (220 and up) are when you'll use them. You'll still need to use another method with the lower grits.

Not all sandpaper works well with ROS. For example, I had many disappointing results with the sandpaper from Industrial Abrasives (Rhyno grip); it was too aggressive for my ROS. The sander stalled frequently, and left deep scratches with each of the higher grits. When I started using a different sandpaper (in this case, blue discs from Vince Welch of Vince's Wooden Wonders), the stalling ended and so did the deep scratches.

Keep in mind that there are plenty of woodturners who create beautiful work without using a ROS. But if you make that plunge, know what you're getting into.

 

[Odie]

Good information about Random Orbital sanding by Donna Banfield....^

I have the Grex 2" RO sander, and am happy with this particular model.

If your lathe goes slow enough (which mine does), you can use the RO sander while running the lathe. I don't know how slow mine goes, because I've never bothered to time it, but I'd guess mine goes as slow as about 25rpm, or so. At this speed, it adapts very well to the RO sander. Even though it goes slow enough, and it does work........I often times find myself turning the workpiece by hand while random orbital sanding.

At one time, I purchased some air drills to be used as sanders. These are relatively slow and a good speed for sanding. I also tried some die grinders, and these are much too fast to be of much use in sanding. The reversible air drill works, but after awhile I discontinued using air drills for sanding. The problem I was having with them is the lubricating oil was getting on my workpiece, either spitting out the exhaust port, or getting on my hands and subsequently touching the workpiece. No matter how careful I tried to be, the oil got on the workpiece. Once that happens, there really isn't much you can do, but resand to a coarser grit to get rid of it.

I've been using corded angle drills from Milwaukee and Sioux for over 20 years, now......and, I much prefer them for sanding at the lathe.

The Grex RO is air powered, and I really have to be careful with that one. Sometimes I hold a rag over the exhaust port, and that seems to work reasonably well. I only use the Grex for very fine grits.....usually only 400gt......so, I'm not using it nearly as much as I was attempting to do with the air drills. I bought the Grex, because when I did, I was unaware of a corded 2" RO sander......which would have been my preference.

If you're going to do all your sanding with air tools, there probably is a good solution to the lubrication problem.......they work well enough, but I was unable to come up with a fool proof method of keeping the oil off my workpiece and maintain the air tool bearings as they should be.

Good luck.......

ooc

 

[Bruce Florek]

Hoses

Odie, I'm "Air Tool Challenged", why the small hoses on all of your air tools??? Just curious.

Thanks, Bruce

 

[Gynia]

You can get rear exhaust air drills and rear exhaust hose. This hose fits over the air hose and attaches to the back of the tool. The hose is about 4' long and the oil laden exhaust is directed safely away from your workpiece.

 

[mrGeeze]

Great responses. Thank you

My goal is to simplify not add more steps.
I'm happy enough with the sioux 8800 results working from 120 up to 400 grit observing the 50% rule.

I thought air sanding would be quicker/easier.
Certainly don't want to spend a bunch of $$$ to create work.
I guess I'll continue with the non-air approach.
Sanding at the lathe (with respirator and a fan on high) works for me.

Truth be told, I destroy these corded tools.
I go through at least 1 or 2 sioux's every year.
I've had them rebuilt (CH Reid in PA) but they told me parts can no longer be had.
Plus they are about $100 a pop to rebuild & almost 150 new.

I've thought about HF or some of the much cheaper ones?
What are others using in their stead?

Again, thanks for your help.

 

[Odie]

Odie, I'm "Air Tool Challenged", why the small hoses on all of your air tools??? Just curious.

Thanks, Bruce

Howdy Bruce.......

The little section of garden hose over the quick disconnect fitting is closed off at the other end with some electrical tape. It's only purpose is to keep dust and debris out of the tool air intake when not in use......slips on and off easily, as needed.

You can get rear exhaust air drills and rear exhaust hose. This hose fits over the air hose and attaches to the back of the tool. The hose is about 4' long and the oil laden exhaust is directed safely away from your workpiece.

See now........there you go! All my air tools are rear exhaust, but I knew the answer to directing the oil away from the work area, and keeping oil off your hands had probably been addressed by someone!.....Gynia has the answer!

It's been at least a decade since I last used these air tools for sanding on the lathe......(the Grex RO sander being the exception) At the time I was using them, it became so problematic for me that I switched back to the corded drills. At this point, I wouldn't go back to the air drills, regardless of any solution to the oil problem. Reason being, there is always the fact that these tools use so much air that the compressor is constantly running, or turning on and off. Even with the 80gal tank on my current compressor, it takes less than a minute of use for the compressor to start up.......and it's noisy enough to drive you crazy! (When I was experimenting sanding with air tools, my compressor had only a 20gal tank, and even though it had a good high output two-stage unit, it ran constantly while using any kind of air tool.)

For anyone who intends to use air tools for extended use in their shop, it would be very wise to put the compressor in another room, or soundproof it in some manner.

ooc

 

[Donna Banfield]

Truth be told, I destroy these corded tools.
I go through at least 1 or 2 sioux's every year.
I've had them rebuilt (CH Reid in PA) but they told me parts can no longer be had.
Plus they are about $100 a pop to rebuild & almost 150 new.

I've thought about HF or some of the much cheaper ones?
What are others using in their stead?

Again, thanks for your help.

Many years ago I used a Sioux corded angle drill for sanding. I think it set me back a little over $150 bucks at that time. When it died, I not only cooked the bearings but melted the housing that they set it, making it worthless. I replaced it with 2 reconditioned corded black and decker drills (not angle drills) that have been running fine for more than 3 years. The drills cost $15 each. I also bought a HF corded angle drill last year for $30, and while not as light or comfortable to use as the Sioux (or a Milwaukee), I can live with the discomfort a little, knowing that when it dies, I can replace it with another one for a lot less money.

Don't get me wrong, I have spent plenty of money of some very pricey tools and equipment, but in those cases it was money well spent, in my opinion. I usually started with the cheaper version, and found it lacking in so many ways. When I upgraded to the better quality, more expensive version, I appreciated all the things that made that particular tool cost more. And I only cried once, when I paid for the tool(s), but not every time I used it, as I did with an inferior copy. But in the case of using corded drills for sanding, they were never designed for running non-stop at 30-45 minutes at a time. And I don't need them for precision accuracy, I just need them to keep running non-stop. A cheaper version, in this particular case, worked just fine.

 

[Gretch Flo]

cheap drills

. I replaced it with 2 reconditioned corded black and decker drills (not angle drills) that have been running fine for more than 3 years. The drills cost $15 each. I also bought a HF corded angle drill last year for $30, and while not as light or comfortable to use as the Sioux (or a Milwaukee)
I have bought several HF drills on sale for ? $12 -14. Used to be chicago Machinery, now their sale drills are another brand (Drill Master). The trigger was the thing that wore out-sometimes after 4 months of heavy use. . I got a 2 yr extended waurentee and I think it cost me $8/yr to run the drills. I got the $30 angled one and it was heavier and more cumbersome for my arthritic hands and saw no advantage. WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF THE ANGLE?? I bought a Ryobi drill from Home D. and worked ok, except the keyless adaptor would get my hand black and I quit using it. Gretch

 

[Odie]

WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF THE ANGLE??

Hiya Gretch........

The angle won't make much difference to a lot of turners, but makes all the difference in the world for some turners......like me! 😀

It all depends on the shapes you do, and your methods of mounting your work. For me there are some areas internally on a bowl that cannot be done with a regularly configured, or traditional drill. If you can visualize a bowl with the walls that slope inward at the rim, you will understand why there is nothing but an angled drill that will get up inside that rim to do it. See photo and think about that interior using your traditional drill.......ain't gonna happen, lady!

Also, if you use faceplates, like I do, there is no way a traditional drill is going to sand the exterior close up to the faceplate mounting without the headstock getting in the way. Sometimes, even an angled drill can't quite do it because the headstock still gets in the way of the angle you'd like to hold the drill.....but, it does allow a far better access than a traditional drill does.

ooc



The rim on this bowl angles inward rather sharply, but even a slight inward slope will interfere with the use of a traditional drill.......

 

[Mark Mandell]

Not To Be

a Kill-joy . . .

But have any of you "air sanders" considered how much money you're spending to run that little sanding disk on the air-powered sander?

Consider, therefore, the cost in electricity (oil, gas, nuclear waste) to run your 3-5 hp air compressor just to run that little air tool as opposed to the corded drill or other corded tool you're trying to replace. I'll submit the difference will surprise you.

Air tools were and are designed for industrial shops and factories where their use is drawn from massive compressors used to do a variety of tasks. Air tools in a home shop (beyond weekend warrior auto mechs, and spray finishing) is a huge waste of money (and hearing loss), and most home-sized compressors do not have the duty-cycle rating to run such tools.

Make no mistake, I'd love to have Dyna-bride RO and in-line sanders for my flat work; they put every corded clone to shame. But the cost to run these things is far out of the range of reasonable cost/benefit for a home or one-man commercial shop.

Run a 5 hp motor as a substitute for a 1/4 hp electric motor? No, No, that's not sound reasoning in my view of the world.

BTW, I've used the same Sioux angle drill as a power sander for neigh on 10 years. These things were not, of course, designed for use in abrasive atmospheres, but I have the hi speed version (2500 rpm) that has better bearings that are double sealed. I also change the bearings every other year and blow out the casing with big air after each use.

 

[Wayne Spence]

I see no reason for running air equipment in a home shop. The place I have personally worked in , an automotive assembly line , was an exception and there are others but for a small wood shop a definite no. My main complaint is the noise, up there with a router. If you must share a 3-5 hp compressor with another worker you will be known as an Air Vampire.

 

[Mark Mandell]

I see no reason for running air equipment in a home shop. The place I have personally worked in , an automotive assembly line , was an exception and there are others but for a small wood shop a definite no. My main complaint is the noise, up there with a router. If you must share a 3-5 hp compressor with another worker you will be known as an Air Vampire.

Wayne, you and I will not be popular with the turning tool-dudes with the slick catalogs touting the Grex as the best thing since pasteurized milk. 😀

 

[Jerry Hall]

Harbor Freight Close Quarters Drill

Last much longer than my rebuilt Sioux. I believe the reason is that the Sioux has the air intake up front, where all the dust is. The HF has the intake in the back of a much longer tool. I agree the switch on the Harbor Freight is the first thing to fail. But mine go for a long time. I buy them in twos and have one on-hand in case of failure. I get the keyed chuck as I rarely change fixtures. See http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-close-quarters-drill-92956.html for current $29 sale price. I have had one of 5 I bought bad at the start. HF replaced it with no hassle and free shipping both ways, but it took a while.

The advantage I find for the close quarters drill over a regular drill is that I can fairly easily hold it with one hand while working my bowl back and forth with the other hand. It is true the Sioux is lighter and handier than either the conventional drill or the HF close quarters drill. I reserve the Sioux for deep sanding with a 10" drill extension on it. I can easily guide the tool with my hand around the drill extension. At sanding speeds it stays cool and comfortable. And the lighter use and greater distance seems to make it last longer. Altho mine is now getting noisy again. Fortunately I have a shop nearby which will replace the bearing for about $25.

 

[Gretch Flo]

Close qrtr drill

Thanks Odie, and jerhall. I don't do too many closed forms, and I may resurrect the drill for bottom sanding near the head stock, in the few occasions I do it. I am usually dealing with fairly dry wood and single turn, thus sanding the exterior when it is close to the tail stock, and the interior when it is open to the tail stock. Thanks, Gretch

 

[Patrick Miller]

metabo random orbit

I had done all my sanding with the electric drills (straight and angled) and 2 and 3 inch hook and loop pads and discs. After reading some earlier threads on 'next step' sanding I settled on the Metabo 3-1/8" (80mm) ELECTRIC 90 degree random orbit sander. I have a big compressor and use some air tools, but I couldn't convince myself to use 6hp/220v to sand a bowl. I had been using it only for 240 grit and finer but used it just last night with some coarser grits for some particularly tough tear out on a maple burl and it did a great job. The tool is larger than the Grex sander but better shaped than my drills. The outside of my pieces are obviously easy to reach and inside of broad open bowls are not a problem. Tighter openings aren't much more limiting than my drill type sanders. Sanding to a markless surface is noticeably quicker for me. I am happy with my choice and think it's a good option.
thanks

 

[Donna Banfield]

Wayne, you and I will not be popular with the turning tool-dudes with the slick catalogs touting the Grex as the best thing since pasteurized milk. 😀

Mark and Wayne, to each his own. No harm/no foul. I'm fortunate that my compressor is on another floor, along with all my other noisy equipment. I turn 5-6 days a week, with rarely getting a day off. Heck, I was working on Christmas day! But when you have the opportunity to do what you truly love, it's not really work. 😀

My preference is to produce bowls that feel as good as they look, and when I use the air sanders, I can stop at 320 or 400, and they compare with the bowl that was sanded to 600 or 800 with the electric powered sander. So I'm not sanding for that much longer in terms of minutes. I'm also not stocking as much of the higher grit paper. And for someone who is prone to repetitive stress injuries (and have had several surgeries as a result) changing from a heavy corded sander to a lighter weight air sander (I have the Grex and Sioux) is a pleasant and much appreciated change for my wrists.

 

[Michael DeWald]

I was wondering why Sioux stopped producing the drill, now I know why.

 

[Mark Mandell]

I was wondering why Sioux stopped producing the drill, now I know why.

Sioux got completely out of the electric tool business. They're now strictly an industrial/commercial air tool outfit. IIRC they merged/joined/etc with Snap-On tools and "spun off" the small electric division.