I am looking into getting an air filtration system and a dust collection system for my new shop. Have been thinking about the Jet AFS 1000B and the Jet DC 1100 or possibly the Powermatic PM 1300. My shop will be about 18' x 18' and assume these will do the trick. Does anyone have any experience with these units or would you suggest different units?
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Air Filtration / Dust Collection
- Thread starter jval
- Start date
You might want to check out the dust collectors at Penn State Industries, they seem to be a good value for the $$. Their 1-micron filters will get more of the really harmful dust particles than either the Jet or the PM. Google "dust collection woodworking" and look for some of the articles on how much dust collection you need: CFM, micro, etc.
I have limited space, so I opted for a small Craftsman (on sale,) then got the PSI filter bag. All of these units are fairly noisy, so you may want to either enclose it (there have been several articles in this forum about noise baffles for DCs) or put it outside in a covered shed.
I have limited space, so I opted for a small Craftsman (on sale,) then got the PSI filter bag. All of these units are fairly noisy, so you may want to either enclose it (there have been several articles in this forum about noise baffles for DCs) or put it outside in a covered shed.
There was a fairly recent review in one of the magazines which recommended the JDS system. The Jet had very good performance numbers and sucked more air through it, but because of the exit velocity of the exhaust, it tended to keep the air agitated with more dust suspended for longer. This was also true of all other models (except JDS) if memory serves.
The JDS exhaust did not neck down to a narrow opening as the others do.
Maybe someone else will have the date and magazine of this review.
The JDS exhaust did not neck down to a narrow opening as the others do.
Maybe someone else will have the date and magazine of this review.
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Kurt mentions the dilemma of the filtration set. You can't get it out of the air unless it's in the air. Which is no problem if your objective is to keep the dust off your LN #2, but poses a small problem if you think it's supposed to keep the dust off of you.
Of course a unit which takes in a greater volume of air will have to exhaust it somewhere. Technology doesn't allow subterranean sequestration of this carbon as of yet. 😛 Now we go back to not being able to filter what isn't airborne as a bad thing. The report is ridiculous, because dispersal and redirection of the flow would reduce the pressure, and therefore the carry, allowing the higher-volume unit to filter more air. Restricting the flow through backpressure or by additional filters would also do it.
Collect your dust at the point of production, defend your nose close-in with a mask, and let the dust fall elsewhere as it cares. Odds-on it won't rise up again to trouble you.
If you want a truly effortless collector of airborne dust, run your DC through several feet of "ungrounded" plastic and let the static do the job.
Of course a unit which takes in a greater volume of air will have to exhaust it somewhere. Technology doesn't allow subterranean sequestration of this carbon as of yet. 😛 Now we go back to not being able to filter what isn't airborne as a bad thing. The report is ridiculous, because dispersal and redirection of the flow would reduce the pressure, and therefore the carry, allowing the higher-volume unit to filter more air. Restricting the flow through backpressure or by additional filters would also do it.
Collect your dust at the point of production, defend your nose close-in with a mask, and let the dust fall elsewhere as it cares. Odds-on it won't rise up again to trouble you.
If you want a truly effortless collector of airborne dust, run your DC through several feet of "ungrounded" plastic and let the static do the job.
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Certainly, the more you can capture at the source, the better.
Here is a teaser for the review I spoke of.
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/dust-collection/air-scrubbers-under-300/
PS: I have a JET AF-1000 and if I were doing it over, I would get the JDS.
Here is a teaser for the review I spoke of.
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/dust-collection/air-scrubbers-under-300/
PS: I have a JET AF-1000 and if I were doing it over, I would get the JDS.
I use a JDS 750, which works quite well to capture airborne particles, along with my regular DC system which pulls 800+ cfm through a 6" PVC duct system and out through a 7' Process Systems' 1 mic. bag. The DC blower and bag system are placed outside of my shop area so no dust is returned to the shop environment.
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Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
For a dust collector, if you can afford it, go with a cyclone unit like Oneida
http://www.oneida-air.com/
Much quieter and IMHO, more efficient.
http://www.oneida-air.com/
Much quieter and IMHO, more efficient.
Thanks
Thanks to all for the info. So far, I have figured out that the JDS 750 ER is probably a better bet than the Jet for the air filtration system. How about the Dust Collector - is JDS Dust Force unit a good one or is the Jet 1100 a better choice? The JDS looks a bit more expensive than the Jet, so interested in anyone who has experience with either.
thank
joe
Thanks to all for the info. So far, I have figured out that the JDS 750 ER is probably a better bet than the Jet for the air filtration system. How about the Dust Collector - is JDS Dust Force unit a good one or is the Jet 1100 a better choice? The JDS looks a bit more expensive than the Jet, so interested in anyone who has experience with either.
thank
joe
Hi Joe,
I took my old 2hp Reliant DC and "rewired" it to take on the 6" ductwork. The unit's mounted in my garage with a 26" straight run into the impeller that's bolted to the concrete wall. I then reworked the bag ring and bought the Process Systems filter bag. I also use a plastic garbage bag on the bottom with an old cloth bag to reinforce it against tears.
Had some damage to the impeller when a full size screw driver got too close to an intake. Had to have it down to the weld shop to have 3 fins straightened and then the thing spin balanced to 3,500 rpm. (Had to get a new screw driver as well. Man, that was LOUD 😱) Runs pretty quietly now, but my wife complains that if the interior garage door is not well latched, the air pressure will blow it open and she has to put all her weight and push hard to get it closed again.
The Reliant was a house brand for the old woodworker's warehouse chain. Made in the same Taiwan factory as all the rest, but it has an 11" impeller instead of the 10" fans others used. Here's a pic or three of the set up. If you can locate you collector outside of the shop, you'll improve your shop air quality a great deal, even with 1 micron-rated bags. You do, however, have to be careful of reversal of drafts on such things as water heaters and furnaces.
I took my old 2hp Reliant DC and "rewired" it to take on the 6" ductwork. The unit's mounted in my garage with a 26" straight run into the impeller that's bolted to the concrete wall. I then reworked the bag ring and bought the Process Systems filter bag. I also use a plastic garbage bag on the bottom with an old cloth bag to reinforce it against tears.
Had some damage to the impeller when a full size screw driver got too close to an intake. Had to have it down to the weld shop to have 3 fins straightened and then the thing spin balanced to 3,500 rpm. (Had to get a new screw driver as well. Man, that was LOUD 😱) Runs pretty quietly now, but my wife complains that if the interior garage door is not well latched, the air pressure will blow it open and she has to put all her weight and push hard to get it closed again.
The Reliant was a house brand for the old woodworker's warehouse chain. Made in the same Taiwan factory as all the rest, but it has an 11" impeller instead of the 10" fans others used. Here's a pic or three of the set up. If you can locate you collector outside of the shop, you'll improve your shop air quality a great deal, even with 1 micron-rated bags. You do, however, have to be careful of reversal of drafts on such things as water heaters and furnaces.
Attachments
If you are looking for a 110V-1.5hp unit, the Delta 50-760 gets high marks. It comes with a 1 micron bag and although others have better CFM numbers in an unrealistic free flow condition, the Delta maintained air flow once restrictions (i.e. ductwork and machines) were added to the intake.
It looks like Delta bought rights to republish this article and make it available to the public, so here is the article:
http://www.deltaportercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf
If you have 220V, the Grizzly is worth looking at, but it only filters to 2.5 and shipping is often a deal-killer for Grizzly.
It looks like Delta bought rights to republish this article and make it available to the public, so here is the article:
http://www.deltaportercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf
If you have 220V, the Grizzly is worth looking at, but it only filters to 2.5 and shipping is often a deal-killer for Grizzly.
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Having a DC is a very good idea from the standpoint of helping to keep the shop clean, but there are a couple of other considerations. The first is that it is not very effective in capturing fine airborne dust beyond just a few inches from the open end of a duct or scoop because air velocity drops off very rapidly. Often the type of turning being done makes it somewhat cumbersome to closely position any kind of dust collection close to the workpiece. The other consideration which should be of prime importance is breathing protection and a DC alone provides very little help in that area. The really bad news is that you can't see the especially harmful dust. Some type of personal breathing protection is essential and I would suggest getting something rated at least N95.
When I began turning a bit more than four years ago, I was probably like most turners at the time and figured that a face shield was sufficient protection. It did not take too many months to realize that my hacking and spitting fits along with severe headaches immediately following turning a piece of wood (most especially dry exotics, but domestic wood too) might just mean that I needed some sort of breathing protection before I filled up my lungs with wood. First, the ordinary paper "comfort" masks -- better than nothing, but still not very good. Next, the Dust-Bee-Gone cloth mask -- worse than the comfort masks. Next, the high quality N95 and N100 masks -- these are very good with just one drawback ... around here the humidity is often very high and I was always having problems with my glasses and face shield fogging ... otherwise, I like them. Finally, the solution that I have been using for the past couple years is a powered respirator with a HEPA filter. The particular model that I use is the 3M Airstream AS400. It has plenty of airflow and I never even smell the wood.
However, I may have not taken the hazards seriously enough and should have acted sooner. I received the news of diagnostic test results today that I have COPD. One of the first questions that I was asked was whether I worked in a dusty environment or exposed frequently to dust.
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Very little to add to this. Unlike years ago, I'm standing at the lathe with a pressurized helmet and highly recommend this. It also offers face protection as there's a full face shield. Sanding is done with a dust collector input mounted behind the work in addition to the helmet. there are a number of these units on the market. It's really the amount of filtration offered by the bags that one should be concerned about unless the output goes outdoors. There are aftermarket bags that remove fine dust. Some of the units come with filter bags that collect chips. One turns these units on and they are blowing fine dust all over ones shop!
There is a lot of difference in the different woods we work with and there usually isn't much information about the exotics. I would also suggest wearing the pressurized helmet when using a high speed grinder. The material that the stones release, if it enters one's lungs, will remain there for a long time.
Malcolm Smith.
There is a lot of difference in the different woods we work with and there usually isn't much information about the exotics. I would also suggest wearing the pressurized helmet when using a high speed grinder. The material that the stones release, if it enters one's lungs, will remain there for a long time.
Malcolm Smith.
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I would like to second that recommendation. The white and blue wheels are great because they keep the steel from getting hot, but they have the drawback of shedding their grit. I have encountered too many sessions of coughing and throat irritation after grinding without wearing breathing protection. Although not everyone's choice, I an very pleased with my Tormek wet grinding system.
I have a couple of high speed grinders which I use when a gross amount of steel needs to be removed. The regular sharpening I do is with a Tormek which I highly recommend to anyone who needs especially sharp tools. People complain about additional time required by this sharpening system. A few pointers in this regard. I have several tool holders which are permanently adjusted for groups of tools so they never need to be changed. This saves a lot of time, not having to go through that adjustment, and also means less steel is having to be removed from expensive tools. A very sharp honed edge produced on a Tormeky lasts longer in use. Also, the tools I use are nearly all in the 'exotic steel' category so they don't need to be sharpened as often. If one considers this, they probably end up costing no more and possibly cost less than regular high speed tools.
Malcolm Smith.
Just A Word of Caution
To all.
While the filtered breathing rigs are fine, they are no substitute for a properly operating dust collection system and air cleaner.
The basic premise of getting the dust at the source remains the overriding principal. The respirator may clean the air you breath while you're using it, however the fine particles of dust produced will permeate your clothing, and will hang in your shop air for many hours. A slight air movement and even walking through your shop will raise an invisible cloud of dust that you will be inhaling. As soon as you take the mask off, or walk back into your shop "unprotected", you've negated almost all of the benefit unless you are also doing everything you can to eliminate the dust in the room.
My ENT doctor handed me a surgeon's disposa-mask to use stating it was all I needed provided my DC and air cleaner were running.
PS to Joe: Learned a simple rule about bag DC's. If the bag is fully inflated when your unit is operating, then the bag is too small for the unit and you're loosing air flow to a useless restriction. This pretty much takes in every new DC being sold, regardless of its bags' rating. My pictured system moves that big bag, but it still has creases and folds showing during operation. That insures that I've got maximum throughput with no loss of suction to back-pressure.
To all.
While the filtered breathing rigs are fine, they are no substitute for a properly operating dust collection system and air cleaner.
The basic premise of getting the dust at the source remains the overriding principal. The respirator may clean the air you breath while you're using it, however the fine particles of dust produced will permeate your clothing, and will hang in your shop air for many hours. A slight air movement and even walking through your shop will raise an invisible cloud of dust that you will be inhaling. As soon as you take the mask off, or walk back into your shop "unprotected", you've negated almost all of the benefit unless you are also doing everything you can to eliminate the dust in the room.
My ENT doctor handed me a surgeon's disposa-mask to use stating it was all I needed provided my DC and air cleaner were running.
PS to Joe: Learned a simple rule about bag DC's. If the bag is fully inflated when your unit is operating, then the bag is too small for the unit and you're loosing air flow to a useless restriction. This pretty much takes in every new DC being sold, regardless of its bags' rating. My pictured system moves that big bag, but it still has creases and folds showing during operation. That insures that I've got maximum throughput with no loss of suction to back-pressure.
I don't think it's one or the other. I would strongly recommend both a pressurized helmet and a regular vacuum dust collector system. I used to use the regular dust filters that one wears and, while they are better than nothing, No one with a pressurized system would go back to them.
Malcolm Smith.
Malcolm Smith.
While a powered respirator is very good at keeping dust out of your lungs, there is a slight drawback to the full head gear. The ones that fully cover your ears or have loud blowers can block the sound of the cut. I listen to my cuts; helps let me know that the tool is cutting smoothly as well as listening for potential problems. The other issue is that our peripheral vision is reduced.
I've decided to supplement my DC and air filter with a half-mask positive pressure dust mask (on sale at Woodcraft here in the US in Sept. for $63.)
I've decided to supplement my DC and air filter with a half-mask positive pressure dust mask (on sale at Woodcraft here in the US in Sept. for $63.)
The pressurized dust mask I have has optional ear protection and one can simply lift these away from one's ears if one wants to listen to the cut. With the filter system behind me on a belt. it's not very audible.
Malcolm Smith.
Let us know how this works out for you. I have often wondered about this type of unit.
I went to the woodcraft web site, and it said, "Protect yourself from nuisance dust with this effective positive pressure cartridge mask that is not only comfortable, but quite affordable. "
I thought the point is to do more than nuisance dust.😕
I thought the point is to do more than nuisance dust.😕
Ann,
The term relates to all dust rather than other stuff like organic vapors from solvents and coatings. The helmet powered filters will protect from the dust, but they won't help with the burrito effect, 😱 and you can't use them for protection when spray painting or finishing.
The term relates to all dust rather than other stuff like organic vapors from solvents and coatings. The helmet powered filters will protect from the dust, but they won't help with the burrito effect, 😱 and you can't use them for protection when spray painting or finishing.