ahaaam way back on 3/21/09

[Bart Leetch]

I first posted here & my lathe has been under a small bench with a key machine & 2 grinders. So I haven't done much turning lately but here is what I have in mind to excite the turning bug.

I have an older Delta 1930's Delta double duty lathe & I don't see a newer lathe in my shop any time soon in the foreseeable future.

Dreaming of the G0698 18" X 47" Wood Lathe

So for my 1930's Delta double duty lathe my plan of attack is to build two hollow end panels with a sealed hole through the left end panel for the motor to pass through & be mounted so that the pulley on the motor lines up with the lathe pulley. These panels & the shelf panel will be filled with sand as ballast & will have adjustable feet & kick down casters or lockable casters & adjustable feet which ever works best. I will re-use my glued up 2x4 top.

I have 2 motors a 1 HP & a 3 HP 3 phase motor the 3 HP is out of a Unisaw so I would have to fabricate a bracket this is not a problem I can weld. I need to get these motors checked out to see if they run.

I do need advise on a VFD & controller & where to buy it so that I get a quality unit at a fair price. As well as suggestions on the motors.

I have designed some lathe tool drawers in my mind the will basically be plywood on edge vertically with a drawer glide top & bottom so the tools will mount like in the picture this should allow room for several tools.


Thanks

 

[Odie]

Bart......

Don't see any reason why you can't get going with that old Delta lathe. Looks like you have a chuck, couple faceplates, gouges, scrapers, skews......

Good to go......:cool2:

Be sure to check in here with questions.......lots of experience and friendly advice found here. Do some searches for answers.....here, and on the newbie and tips and tricks forums.

I don't have the answers for variable speed on your motor, but the advice you are looking for is coming right up! 😀 Search will find some answers, too. If it were me, I'd probably just hook up the 1hp motor and change pulleys for right now.....save for that lathe you really want.

Good luck

ooc

 

[Bart Leetch]

The 1 hp motor is 3 phase can't run it without a VFD.

I need to build the new base to make is easier to move out from under the Grinders & key machine in its current state it weighs 420 lbs & the stand has to be jacked up with a 3 ton floor jack so I can move it.

You can just see the motor to the outside & below the head stock this is one of the reasons I want to re-configure the whole base to save room & make it easier to move.

That is an old picture of where it used to set.

 

[john lucas]

I just repaired one just like that. The only thing wrong was the tailstock needed adjustment to get it back to center and the self ejecting mechanism was worn and wouldn't push the tailstock out. I turned a new part for the end of the tailstock screw and now it works perfectly.
I bought it so I would have an inexpensive lathe to offer for beginners. I think this is a much better lathe than any of the Harbour freight and other cheap lathes.

 

[Bill Boehme]

What is the rated voltage on the nameplates? You will have a hard time finding a controller if either is 115 VAC. Also, check the insulation class rating on the name plate. Motors designed for inverter duty have insulation ratings of F or higher. You might be able to get away with class E insulation. If your motors are old then they probably have insulation ratings lower than E (such s A, B, C, or D) in which case, they will not survive very long when used with an inverter. Personally, I would forget about using the 3 HP motor. The controllers for those are much more expensive. There is a simpler controller that is less expensive that only does the phase conversion and outputs only 60 Hz. You might consider that along with stepped cone pulleys for speed control. In any case, even with electronic variable speed drive, you will still need to have multiple pulley speeds. The cheapest solution is to just buy a new motor and forget about using an inverter.

 

[Joe Greiner]

That lathe's older brother, circa 1929 and lighter duty, was my first real lathe. IIRC, about 1/2 HP. Your 3 HP motor is probably too much grunt for the frame and machinery.

I wouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, to excite the turning bug. I've even used a drill press as a vertical-axis "lathe."

 

[Bart Leetch]

After conversing with Bill behind the scenes I have maybe opted to purchase a 1 HP 1725 RPM motor & mount it behind the lathe.


The other option is leave it the way it is until such time as I & can build the new base. In its current configuration it has a 3/4 HP motor on the outside of the stand that is to say to the left of the stand because the motor turns the wrong way to be mounted underneath or behind the stand. In this configuration I have done several turnings over a long period of time.

I just found out something I didn't know my Oneway chuck is both left & right hand thread.

Now this brings up the question of getting a motor with a reversing switch. It would be fine if I could just add a reversing switch to the 3/4 HP motor I have but I don't know if that is possible or not. Is anyone knowledegable about this please let me know.


The lathe sets under a small bench mounted to the wall with 2 6"grinders & a 5" grinder & a key cutting machine. With the clearance of 1/2" between the lathe ways & the bottom of the 2 drawers under the bench, I have to slide a mechanics floor jack under it & just pick it up off of the floor to slide it out for use & then put the tail stock back on the ways.

Can you say small shop I measure things TIGHT to make them work.

In this pic you can see how the motor is mounted. This pic doesn't show the lathe how it is positioned in the shop now it is 90 turned degrees along the back wall. In its current configuration the lathe & stand weighs just over 420 lbs & has very little vibration.

I think the only real problem is the space savings of having the motor behind the stand & being able to use the outboard end of the lathe for bigger turings or just because sometimes it would be easier not having to twist my torso (bad lower back) to turn over the ways. The tool rest is set right at the height of my elbow & feels right.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bart, an AC induction motor such as your can usually be configured to run in either direction. Sometimes it is easy to do and other times it is not worth the effort. If your motor is the type with a start capacitor (you can tell by the half-round bump on the outside of the motor that houses the capacitor) and also if it has a centrifugal switch that kicks the capacitor out of the circuit as the motor gets up to speed. The centrifugal switch is located at the back end of the motor and is accessed by first removing the shroud and fan and then removing the rear plate. I used to have a very detailed tutorial on this site complete with pictures showing the procedure for reversing a motor, but apparently it was deleted when the site was reorganized since I can no longer find it.

A capacitor-start AC induction motor consists of two sets of windings: the start winding and the run winding. Reversing either one (but not both) will cause the motor to run in the opposite direction. If you have access to the capacitor leads and the leads to the centrifugal switch, then you have everything that is necessary to reverse the motor. You do not even need a switch if you want this change to be permanent. By the way, this type of motor only allows reversing from a standing start -- it does not allow "hot plugging" (reversing on the fly). That is good, because reversing while running is not a good thing anyway. If a switch were installed, you would need a DPDT toggle rated for the size induction motor being used.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I just found out something I didn't know my Oneway chuck is both left & right hand thread.

Now this brings up the question of getting a motor with a reversing switch. It would be fine if I could just add a reversing switch to the 3/4 HP motor I have but I don't know if that is possible or not. Is anyone knowledegable about this please let me know.

Yep, Delta makes faceplates with R/L threads, and I had an insert with the same on my Novas. It's for the outboard end where the thread is Left.

Reversing not required for anything meaningful.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... Reversing not required for anything meaningful.

Well, it is in Bart's case since he wants to be able to mount the motor underneath the lathe as opposed to having it stick out past the end of the lathe in a shop that is cramped for space (sounds like my shop). Otherwise, I agree completely with what you say. In Bart's case, a switch is not necessary, just a rerouting of the wiring to make a permanent change in rotation direction.

If I get a "round tuit", I may post a brief tutorial on how it is done. However, it is not something for the uninitiated to undertake because every motor is slightly different and so it would not be a "cookbook" procedure.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Well, it is in Bart's case since he wants to be able to mount the motor underneath the lathe as opposed to having it stick out past the end of the lathe in a shop that is cramped for space (sounds like my shop). Otherwise, I agree completely with what you say. In Bart's case, a switch is not necessary, just a rerouting of the wiring to make a permanent change in rotation direction.

.

I'm sure you'll excuse my confusion after reading the first and last line. No need for reversing switches, as I said. Or did you mean to use the last first and close with the last? Reminds me a bit of last night....

 

[Bill Boehme]

OK, here is a brief description of the mod to reverse a single-phase capacitor-start AC induction motor. This is based on the motor on my Delta 46-715 lathe and other motors may differ slightly from this configuration. The first image shows the motor laid open where the contacts of the centrifugal switch and the start capacitor are identified. The inertial weights and springs that operate the switch contacts are on the armature shaft which has been cropped out of the picture.



Tracing the colored wires and making some ohmmeter measurements, I came up with the wiring diagram for the motor as shown in the second image.



In your case, Bart, you have a dual voltage motor so the first thing is to make the wiring connections for 115 VAC. Dual voltage motors have two sets of windings. When connected for 230 VAC, the windings are in series and when connected for 115 VAC, they are in parallel. Once you have configured your motor so that the windings are in parallel for 115 VAC, you can just treat it as a single winding as shown in the diagrams here. Make sure that your friends who said that they are knowledgeable enough to undertake this task really are and not just blowing smoke.

The idea in reversing a capacitor-start single-phase AC induction motor is to reverse the phase of the start winding. Starting the motor in the desired direction and helping it get up to full speed are the the only two functions of the start winding. After that, the centrifugal switch kicks it out of the circuit and the motor continues turning using only the RUN winding.

The third image identifies the leads that we must access in order to reverse the direction of the motor.



The type of switch needed is a double-pole double-throw (DPDT) snap action toggle rated for an inductive load -- usually specified in horsepower. I suggest getting the two position type and not the type with a center off position. You may need to go to Newark Electronics or Allied Electronics, but you might possibly find one at Grainger's or McMaster-Carr. I check at Lowes and Home Depot, but their switches all seemed substandard or marginally acceptable. Since you aren't actually doing any ot switching, one of the Home Depot switches might be OK, but they seem to be fixated on only offering those that have a center OFF position. My preference is to have a switch that is either guarded or has a pull-to-move feature. Also, the type with spade lugs would probably be the most desirable. This means that you also need a crimping tool and terminals.

The diagram in the fourth image shows the modifications in red to add the reversing switch. Note that the position of the capacitor may be different than it is on my motor, The other two possible locations are indicated on the drawing. If this is the case, you need to make sure that you have properly identified the wiring leads so that the switch is hooked up correctly.



If anyone is wondering what happens if the switch is flipped to reverse the motor while it is running, the answer is "absolutely nothing". The start winding is out of the circuit after the motor is up to speed. The only way to reverse the direction is to wait until the motor stops and the centrifugal switch has closed. Flip the switch and then turn on the power to run in the other direction.

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT WORKING ON ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT: This is not something that a person without adequate training and knowledge should be attempting and hoping that their work will culminate in satisfactory results. Working with electricity when ill prepared can result in a hazardous situation. Electricity has no moral conscience and is completely unforgiving of errors. This is not a cookbook recipe -- it is meant only as as a basic guideline for someone who already has proper training and knows what they are doing. Wiring practices and materials used must all conform to applicable codes and standards. They are there for a purpose. If you do not know them inside-out then do not try monkeying around with it.

 

[Bart Leetch]

Thanks Bill.

 

[Rick M]

Bill's post ought to be added to the How-To forum . . .

 

[Bill Boehme]

When I was about twelve years old, I nearly electrocuted myself on a grocery store tube tester and that is when I felt my calling in life was to become an electrical engineer. Some things just defy explanation.

Some other things can be explained and I would like to explain why I placed the stern warning at the end of my last post. Working around electricity is serious business and doing something in ignorance cane be fatal. Also, do not assume that you are the final owner of your lathe. Some future owner may be unaware of any modifications and how well (or poorly) they were done -- and that could lead to a hazardous situation for that owner.

There are at least three times that I have nearly been electrocuted due to the ignorance or carelessness of others. One case, in particular, was scary because of the hidden nature of the hazard -- unknown to me, an electric drill had been "fixed" by a neighbor who really didn't know enough about working with electricity. The drill was later sold to my dad who later gave it to me before I had any tools of my own. This was back many years ago when electric drill cases were all metal and there was no grounding connection to the case. My discovery of the problem happened when I was working on a metal structure that turned out to be surprisingly well grounded just by virtue of the foundation contact with the ground. I laid the drill down on the metal surface as I began to work and suddenly there was a bright flash and a loud pop. The circuit breaker tripped which put an end to the fireworks display, but it left a big notch in both the drill and aluminum door frame. If I had touched the frame before laying the drill down, the full 120 volts would have passed through me. That experience was completely unexpected and it took several minutes of gathering my wits to realize exactly what had occurred.

My next step, of course, was to figure out why it had happened. When I opened the clamshell case of the drill, the cause was obvious -- one of the power leads had been pinched between the two halves of the drill case and when the screws were tightened, the case cut through the wire insulation. I repaired the drill, adding extra protection to make sure that the wires were protected and then modified it to use a three wire power cord so that the case was grounded, but I still have not used the drill since then, other than verifying that it was safe to use. I really ought to disassemble it and then throw it away.

This, along with a few other incidents, give me what I feel is adequate justification for the way that I feel about unqualified people working on electrical equipment.

 

[Gretch Flo]

electricity

Bill -you're preaching to this choir. Scary thing changing those light bulbs!!!😀😀😀 Gretch