Advise Required Please

[William Young]

This is a 6" ash bowl that was previously dried with the alcohol treatment. It had what I suppose are called bark inclusions on both ends of the block so I rough turned the worst ones away as part of the bottom of the bowl. The ones at the top were already cracked but as was expected, the cracks got bigger in the drying process. The rest of the bowl is quite sound. If I turn the bowl down to a size that omits the dark areas it would just be too small to save.
So is this bowl a total loss ? I have trued up the tenon and reverse chucked it now that it is dry. Is there a proper procedure for repairing these cracks? Like wood filler and glue mixed ? Or glue and sawdust mixed? What type of glue... carpenters glue like Titebond or should it be CA glue.
And most importantly, is there much of a chance that the cracks will open again at some time after it is all finished in spite of repairing them at this time. It would be too late then to put it back on the lathe for repairs.
I wont go any further with this bowl until I get some ideas from some turners that have been there... done that.

My designer firewood box is close by if need be 🙁
W.Y.

 

[dkulze]

Hmmmm.

For meself, I'd consider either filling with some type of colored powder (inlace, turquois) and CA or carving out and extending the cracks to make them look intentional.

By experience with that log, the cracks probably won't get any longer.

Dietrich

 

[Dr_dewey]

make it look like you meant it

others have stitched leather across the seam (crack) to make it look like you knew what you were doing - sorry - intended to do.

hey its only advice!! and free.

 

[C Edward Moore]

Bill,

You asked a question and you deserve an honest opinion. I think you are ahead of the game if you make use of your designer firewood box. Safety may also be a factor to consider. You have plenty of wood, so why waste your time trying to make a bowl look sound when in fact it isn't. Turn a piece that isn't cracked. Or, do as Dr Dewey suggested and make the cracks features.

 

[Bowen Turner]

Bill, I would probably finish it as is and keep it for myself. That way I wouldn't feel like I had put in a wasted effort to get to this stage, and, I would also be able to see if it does continue to crack...then you will know for the future when it might be important to know.

r

 

[William Young]

Many thanks for the responses. I am always open for constructive critisizm. I got some good ideas here as well as elswhere.

Ed;
The bowl seems quite sound everywhere in the lighter colored wood where it isnt cracked so I dont feel that it would be dangerous to finish it off but I would certainly use my full face shield and stand to one side just in case.

Bowen;
I may take your route and finish it off the way it is and keep it as a reference piece ....

or

I may just take it off the lathe and let it sit for another month or so in my shops atmospheric environment to see if they are going to open any more or not and then fill the cracks in with some suggestions I got here as well as on another site and turn it and see if it will remain crack free after that.

Decisions , .. decisions.

W.Y.

 

[Mike Schwing]

I kind of follow Ed's line of thought. You'll never be able to hide it so well that it doesn't look like you were trying to hide it (the cracks). So if you're going to keep it, accentuate it.

But, it is only wood - people heat their houses with it. (and that is what I'd do). Unless it is a very special piece of wood, either with history or personal significance behind it, or has world class figure, it'll keep me warm for a few minutes in the fireplace.

You could turn it down to remove the visible cracks, but it is likely that the cracks continue farther than you can see - and may open the following day.

I also believe that seasonal movement could indeed open them up despite your best effort to join or fill them.

How about cutting it in half down the crack line, gluing in a contrasting strip of something and turning it down to match? Bowls like this offer a good opportunity to experiment.

 

[Hugh]

There are lots of ways to "fix" a bowl with a crack. Almost all the Ash wood I have turned (not a lot) has always had a crack in the center of the tree - even while it was growing. It looks like you did not get past the crack before you started. In Hawaii - in Calabash bowls - the Hawaiians used to mend any cracks that appeared. They would attach "butterflys" across the crack, or cut away the crack and fill the space with another piece of wood. Bowls were passed down from generation to generation - and the more repairs the better.

A number of people now "mend" the cracks in their bowls using leather lacing, thick thread, wire, etc. Then there is the simple filler made of CA glue and sawdust on to brass dust, rock dust, etc. Lots of ways to fix cracks. If done properly it can improve a bowl. Good luck.
Hugh

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Butterflies

Hi Bill,

I've solved crack problem using the following approaches:

1. Toss the bowl into the firewood stack. Cut your losses.

2. Place the bowl onto a shelf to remind me that mother nature is far more powerful than we think.

3. Leave the wall thickness real thick, fill the cracks with an appropriate filler. I have used a mix of yellow glue, sawdust from the piece that you are working on and sometimes a small amount of the finish that you are going to use. Assume that the bowl will never reach its original full potential. Use it for serving popcorn or peanuts. No kidding: Liberty Bowl.

4. Try to get creative. I tried the butterfly approach perfected by noted American Woodworker George Nakashima. Unfortunately, cutting a curved 3-dimensional butterfly (and slot) is not within my skill set at this time!



Best Regards,
-Allen

 

[William Young]

Thanks for all the replys . I think what I may do is fill the cracks with CA or epoxy mixed with either some brass key cutter filings or som glitter dust like I use on Christmas tree ornaments. Then sit it aside with the tenon left on for as long as it takes to satisfy me that it is either going to be stable or if it is going to get worse. If it shows signs of opening again then I can go to plan B and put it back on the lathe and cut it off just below the crack and glue a ring of walnut or cherry on it and finish it off that way .
Thanks again for all the suggestions.
W.Y.

 

[Wally Dickerman]

Looks like firewood to me. Chalk it up to experience and start over.

About the glue stains around the crack....Before you apply the glue, apply some finishing oil, or wax to the surface around the crack. The glue that doesn't get into the crack will bead up and can be wiped off.

If that was an exceptional piece of wood that you really wanted to save, you can do several things as already suggested. Don't try to hide it because you can't. You can open the cracks further with a dremel tool or something similar and mix epoxy with turquoise chips, brass filings (from a key shop), glitter (from a craft store), or whatever. In other words you would be accenting the cracks instead of trying to hide them.

 

[Whit]

A lot of good ideas here.

I used to make Herculean efforts to salvage cracked bowls and vessels and still do if the cracks can be used to improve the piece. Mostly, however, all the various attempts to hide/use/save/? a flawed piece are just that - attempts - which for me often fail. And waste a lot of time and effort. Thus, when I get a piece like this I mostly do two things:

1. Figure out how did I get in this fix in the first place? If a crack develops, chances are the crack(s) were there all along. I just didn't see them. Why not? Analyze what went wrong. - and -

2. Practice new techniques on the piece of soon-to-be firewood; i.e., texturing, burning, carving, ebonizing, filling, dying, painting or whatever else I dream up. Sawing a piece in half occassionally can also offer some insights into how I'm doing on consistency of walls, etc.

And finally, it's just wood. Sometimes it's meant to be firewood.

Whit

 

[dkulze]

There ya go. I'm big into playin around. If you get something great, super! If not, you get experience and firewood.

I know Bill is in an area where hardwood is difficult to come by so I can see the desire to make every piece count. Anyone who feels up to it, consider mailing some wood around to those in need. Not everyone gets to live in Texas, Massachusetts, or Oregon.

Dietrich

 

[William Young]

OK, here it is at this stage. Cracks roughened with dremel tool to allow for good adhesion and then packed with epoxy and multicolor glitter. Cured for about 48 hours and then smoothened off with gouge followed by 100 grit sandpaper and a little oil added to bring out the grain.
Now I am open for some more constructive critisizm.

(1) Would this look tacky if it was finshed off as is or would it be OK and just considered a conversation piece?

(2) Would it be a good idea to cut a ring of dark contrasting wood (walnut) on my scrollsaw and glue it to the top edge and turn it down to the same 1/4" thick wall as is there already and maybe 1/2 to 3/4" above the ash to make it a little deeper bowl ? I would put the straight grain of the top ring at right angles to the filled cracks in the ash which should prevent the cracks from opening further (just in case). Although the glitter pieces would still show below the dark rim, would it still be considered a conversation piece or make it look worse. ?

(3) Or just cut the whole top off below the filled cracks and glue on a deeper piece to the top to make it about the same depth as it is now only with a contrasting top half. I dont think cutting the top off and making a small shallow bowl is an option for me because it would be very small.

(4) Or should I just toss it into the designer firewood box now and chalk it up to experience and remember not to try to make something out of a piece that already has visible cracks right from the start.

(5) Or any other ideas ? ? ?

W.Y.

 

[Wally Dickerman]

Any of the four suggestions works for me. If you elect to go with the walnut, I suggest that you use segments instead of one piece. 8 segments will work. True up the top of the bowl with a sanding stick before gluing. A sanding stick is a 1 inch wide x 12 or more inches long, piece of wood. Plywood works well. Glue 80 grit sandpaper to the surface. Apply it to the squared up rim of the bowl while it's spinning on the lathe to prepare it for segmenting.

 

[William Young]

Thanks to everyone who participated in this. I finally made a decision on it. I dont think I will waste much more time on this bowl. I appreciated the pros and cons and everything in between. I am going to finish turning it as is and put a finish on it and just sit it up on a shelf somewhere and keep it as a curiosity piece.

I feel It was time well wasted because I learned a lot on this piece in what to watch out for before putting a piece of wood on the lathe.

So to alleviate my frustration caused by that one I put a pice of 8/4 cherry on the lathe and turned another 8" shallow bowl. That dry cherry wood that I got last week sure turns nice . I actually prefer turning dry wood like this for the way it turns out but green turning is also fun if the piece is free of any cracks to start with and dries in that same condition.

BTW - - Wally;
We almost overlapped in time posting our messages. Your last suggestion was a good one had I decided to go that route. I will keep it in mind for future use.

W.Y.

 

[Doghouse]

One thing that appears to me is that I do not think that it was a bark inclusion. I may be wrong, but the rings are aroun the crack, pointing meaning that the pith was at the mouth of your bowl. As wood dries, it cracks from the pith first.

This is a guess but you may have had a bit too much of the heart of the tree in that bowl to begin with.

JMHO if I am wrong someone pls correct me.

 

[William Young]

Doghouse;
I don't really know what those dark pointed marks are either. They sure dont look like knots and if they were from an area too close to the pith then I would think that they would be only at one end. But I received the piece with the same pointed brown marks only bigger on the other end of the piece as well so I used that end for the bottom so that they could be turned away in the waste part.
I received the blank already bandsawed round so what they are is also a mystery to me until somebody comes up with a logical explanation of what they are.
W.Y.