Advise needed on lathe

[Don Peek]

I have been turning about a year and a half on a 1983 craftsman 12 inch lathe. The time has come to upgrade. I would love to have a Oneway or a Robust but I'm not ready to make that large of a financial commitment. Should I buy another inexpensive lathe (under 1000) and let the lathe budget grow another year or so, or settle for a Powermatic.
Thanks for any advice.
Don

 

[KurtB]

Lathe Selection

At first, I was annoyed to learn that I had settled for a Powermatic. But as I looked more deeply into your question, I realized that maybe some folks out there might like a little more information about the whole issue of which lathe to buy. So I, not knowing any better, decided to try and address the issue: Which lathe is right for me?

I have a --------- lathe, with a swing of 12, 14, 16, or 20 inches. Question: how many times have I not been able to turn what I want with the lathe I have? Of those times, how many have been really upsetting to me? Answer: if, in your mind, those times have been enough to be upsetting, then consider a lathe with a larger swing.

Question: of the times I have been turning things that fit the swing, and are what I want to make, how many have caused the lathe to stall? There is a subquestion with this: is my lathe a belt drive, and do I have the belts in the optimum configuration for power/torque at the speed I require? If you have stalled the lathe at the optimum configuration, you may need more power.

Question: is variable speed something of value to me? Do you like to apply finishes on the lathe at speeds of 40-60 rpm? Do you do mostly spindle work, typically done at higher speeds, or bowl and blank work that require lower speeds, or both on a frequent basis? If finishes, or both, then you may need variable speed to maximize your choices.

Question: how often do you turn larger, unstable blanks, that require a heavy, stable lathe?

Question: how important to you is a digital readout? If you use it as a reference for many different turning functions, then you may require it for the lathe you use.

If you are considering the purchase of a new, (or used) lathe, there will always be a matrix of price, power, swing, and options that you and only you will be able to answer for yourself. There is no such thing as settling - either the lathe will do what you want, or it won't. The question is, how well have you answered the questions about what you want the lathe to do, and how much are you willing to spend to have those capabilities? If the Robust or the Oneway (fine machines each) are the only ones that have what you need, then save your money and buy one. If the Jet 1442, (also a fine machine), will do what you need, then buy it, and pocket the difference in the cost. If the only choice is a Powermatic 3520 or a Oneway, Vicmark, or Robust, for instance, then what are you willing to spend to get what you want?

My point is, you are the only one that can determine what you want that machine to do for you, and answer the question of whether it will or not. Once you get there, about power, swing, weight, options, etc., you can decide whether or not the purchase price is relative to what you want. 🙂

 

[Don Peek]

Thanks

Kurt.
Thanks for your well written reply. I meant no offense by using the word settle.
Sorry for any I may have offended.
Don

 

[KurtB]

Lathe Advice

Don,
Not to worry, I was trying for a little tongue in cheek, anyway! 😀

 

[C Edward Moore]

Get the Powermatic

Kurt gave you an excellent response. Give thought to his questions. Chances are, unless you want to turn BIG, the Powermatic is exactly what you should purchase. It gives more bang for the buck than any other lathe. If you are a hobbyist and expect to remain one and budget is a consideration, then there is an extremely high probability that the Powermatic is just the lathe for you. And no one is going to look down on you for that choice, it is an excellent lathe.

 

[KEW]

Dan,

If you decide to buy an under $1000 lathe and grow the budget, I would suggest the Jet 1220 with variable speed. The biggest reason is that it offers a low end of ~200 (?), while most lathes under $1K spin at 500rpm up.
I would recommend this approach as the 1220VS offers a lot of the advantages of a pro lathe (compared to your Craftsman) and I think is a platform where you could develop better ideas of what you are wanting in your "final" lathe. Also, after you upgrade, you may decide the 1220VS is a keeper as a second lathe.
*************************************
As far as the difference between a PM vs. Robust/Stubby/VB/OneWay (I'll call these "dream lathes"), there are pros and cons to each and you really should understand those differences and ideally experience those lathes first-hand. That may be difficult if you live in a rural area, but if there is a club in your area, most turners are happy to let someone try out their lathe.

The PM is a popular machine, because it is the least expensive lathe that fits most people's concept of a true pro lathe. Power, capacity, flexibility, and ergonomics are certainly adequate by most turners' standards. Arguably, it is the functional equivalent of the dream lathes (under normal demands).
Obviously, only you can make the final decision, but here is some food for thought:
1) Your budget - I believe you are looking at ~$2000-4000 difference between the PM and the others. What else would you do with that money?
2) Why do you turn? Do you plan to sell your work and want to cost justify your lathe? If so, the dream lathes cannot be justified (IMHO). As a counter example, if you will derive great pride and enjoyment from having a machine with outstanding fit and finish, I don't think you can beat a VB. Each model has it's strengths and weaknesses, but that is another thread.
3) How old are you? Because turning is so popular, the last decade has seen quite a number of improvements in the equipment available to us. The market has become large enough to support more design innovations. I believe the most recent innovations are EVS and the sliding head (PM and Robust). I bought a PM90 (which was about as nice of a lathe as you could buy in 1980!) from a man who had bought it as his "dream" lathe, but then decided EVS was a "must have". As I progressed in my turning, I also decided to move to a machine with more modern features.
There is always the risk that 20 years from now you will be "stuck" with the equivalent of a state-of-the-art B&W TV in a world of color TV's. The flip side is the more years you have to turn, the lower the incremental cost of the lathe you buy.
HTH!

The Other Kurt🙂

 

[John Jordan]

I would suggest the Jet 1440 (is that right?). I use them quite a lot at different demos, and we would have traded our mothers for one of them 20 years ago. 🙂They are very capable lathes, and you can find them for not much more than $1000. The Chicago Symposium sold several for $1200 a few weeks back.

Anything less is not so good. When you want a BIG lathe, and you may never feel the need for one, of course you would want a Stubby.🙂

John

 

[waltben]

With your budget, I'd look at something you'll be able to use even after eventually getting the dream one. I got mine several years back (not going to start any religious wars here), but found I still needed a smaller one for odds and ends that I didn't want to tie up the large one with (finials, bottle stoppers, pepper grinder bases, etc.). The one I got was a popular mini with variable speed and has served me well for three years, but has been very limited - 10" swing and underpowered.

I was fortunate to be part of the evaluation group for the new Delta midi lathe that's supposed to be released in November and priced between $500 and $600. It's very solid, 12" swing and has a 3/4 hp variable speed motor. Since receiving a production version, I've been able to use it for demonstration events and brought it to one of my club meetings. I've turned an 11" rosewood bowl, and many fruit wood pepper grinder bases plus uncounted flower vases on it from various dry domestic woods, and it's never even slowed down. While it is a midi and doesn't have much spindle capacity, they'll have a bed extension for it as well. I'd really consider this for your next step and start saving loose change for that dream one.

 

[Jake Debski]

Don,

The others have offered excellent advice. I would like to add one more bit of it. Allowing for the fact that I don't know your current age, I would say, save your money and buy that "dream lathe" down the road. Keep plugging away with the old Sears lathe until that day, but don't "settle" because you will always wonder "if only".

BTW, I have a PM and it is more than I "need", but I lay no claim to the stratosphere of the art/craft of woodturning.😉

 

[Charlie Knighton]

dream lathe

at richmond this year, i would guess 90% of the instant gallery turnings could have been done on a lathe with 16 inch swing

the larger your turning the smaller amount of potential display space is available

i bought a lathe at richmond

 

[Don Peek]

Great Advice

Thanks to all who took the time to reply. I am grateful to each of you.
Don

 

[Jerry Rhoads]

I read it as settling down with a Powermatic
wonderful lathe to settle down wtih.
For $1000 a lot if people are going with the Nova 14-24/42, I think is the number.

Jerry

 

[Marc Ruby]

Spend a bit more and get a Jet 1642 2hp - it's a PM3520 without the excess baggage (and cost). If you want a Powermatic get the 4224. Of course, in that range, you should take a long hard look at a Robust.

Marc (who has no great love for big yellow)

 

[helang]

When buying an expensive piece of equipment I would request a matrix be prepare to compare the features of the item to the competion and to our needs. For a wood lathe some characteristics that should be evaluated are:
Desired swing, desired distance between centers, RPM ajustment, Min RPM, Max RPM, front to back foot print, weight, ease to hollow, price, etc.

The Matrix lists the characteristic vertically and the lathe being considered horizontally. The entries for each characteristic/lathe is numerical; 10 being exceptional and 0 be not at all acceptable. The lathe that has the highest score is probably the one that suits your needs. Assuming total honesty was use in the evaluation.

I'm on my fourth lathe.

Howard

 

[Rob Wallace]

Resources are already available to do comparisons....

Here's a start on your "matrix" if you want to build one yourself - Walter Jones has already begun the process.....

http://www.woodturner.org/resources/LatheSpecs.pdf

Here is a list of lathe manufacturers if you want to do some comparison shopping.

Good luck in your search for the ideal lathe. What is ideal for many turners today may not be ideal tomorrow, so keep your eyes open for quality used equipment if you must wait a while to build the capital to get your 'dream lathe'. For many turners, there is a progression of sequential lathe upgrades over time (...with continued and added interest in turning, and the vast benefits of accumulated experience), so it may be possible to "step" towards the ideal lathe with intermediate machines while gaining the needed experience to know exactly what features and designs you want in the lathe that will work best FOR YOU.

You are asking the right questions, which is a good sign!

Cheers,

Rob Wallace

 

[MichaelMouse]

Thanks to all who took the time to reply. I am grateful to each of you.

I turned for 15 years (tuition) on a 12" Delta, and sold almost everything I turned. Still, I thought if only I had a good and modern lathe I'd be better. Graduation of tuition number three and approval from SWMBO, and I still didn't buy my PM. Bought a used 3000 with 16 inch swing (bigger than a toilet bowl) and speed below 200 if I wanted it. Only a third the price of the PM, but 1/3 the floor space without extension, too. Balance paid for a blade and cultivator for the tractor. The 3000 has done everything, including the big salad bowls I couldn't make on the Delta.

Is it a status lathe? Nope, just a sturdy, reliable performer with outboard capabilities I've yet to tap. One horse motor, and I have used three of the eight speeds available so far. I've cut back turning with the fourth graduation, and took the one show's profit she promised me and bought a Unisaw/Biesmeyer/HTC base with left tilt accessories instead. The Nova is still more of a lathe than I a turner, and the tractor has a bucket to move the stuff the snowplow redeposits in my drive.

Get a step up, and the 16-24 which has not been mentioned is a thousand and loads of fun. There will always be someone with bigger "better" or more elaborately equipped lathes. If you want one, get it. If you want to turn, put the edge to the wood as it spins and don't fret so much about what's spinning it.

 

[Odie]

I turned for 15 years (tuition) on a 12" Delta, and sold almost everything I turned. Still, I thought if only I had a good and modern lathe I'd be better. Graduation of tuition number three and approval from SWMBO, and I still didn't buy my PM. Bought a used 3000 with 16 inch swing (bigger than a toilet bowl) and speed below 200 if I wanted it. Only a third the price of the PM, but 1/3 the floor space without extension, too. Balance paid for a blade and cultivator for the tractor. The 3000 has done everything, including the big salad bowls I couldn't make on the Delta.

Is it a status lathe? Nope, just a sturdy, reliable performer with outboard capabilities I've yet to tap. One horse motor, and I have used three of the eight speeds available so far. I've cut back turning with the fourth graduation, and took the one show's profit she promised me and bought a Unisaw/Biesmeyer/HTC base with left tilt accessories instead. The Nova is still more of a lathe than I a turner, and the tractor has a bucket to move the stuff the snowplow redeposits in my drive.

Get a step up, and the 16-24 which has not been mentioned is a thousand and loads of fun. There will always be someone with bigger "better" or more elaborately equipped lathes. If you want one, get it. If you want to turn, put the edge to the wood as it spins and don't fret so much about what's spinning it.

Now, there is some excellent advice from MM.......

Comment: There are just too many woodturners that measure their success by the equipment they own. These people are not without value to the rest of us, though.......without those who spend all that money, we wouldn't have a whole commercial industry that's dedicated to one thing......turning wood! I thought the selection of woodturning lathes and tools was out of this world 25yrs ago, but the selections we have today are nothing short of incredible!

otis of cologne

 

[Malcolm Smith]

I have been turning about a year and a half on a 1983 craftsman 12 inch lathe. The time has come to upgrade. I would love to have a Oneway or a Robust but I'm not ready to make that large of a financial commitment. Should I buy another inexpensive lathe (under 1000) and let the lathe budget grow another year or so, or settle for a Powermatic.
Thanks for any advice.
Don

Are you planning to move up through a series of lathes until you get a Oneway,or a Robust? I'm not convinced about the economics off this. I like most of us moved up but if I had it to do over again, I would start out with the Oneway that I now have. There are many very significant advantages to the higher end lathes and one doesn't end up with faceplates, chucks and accesories that don't adapt well to the change (in the case of Oneway, the lathe is reversable and all their accessories can be locked on. I certainly would explore what is available second hand. These lathes must periodically come on the market second hand at which point they would perhaps be affordable for you.

Unless most of the turning you do is spindle turning or very small bowls, again, the advantages are very considerable. Many of the inexpensive lathes are really spindle lathes that have been adapted by a rotating head and a tool rest on a side arm which isn't a very good arrangement. The tailstock usually does not align with the headstock (On a Oneway it does). The higher priced lathes are much more heavily built which allows one to turn larger bowls without movement and they have continuously variable speed control. Relatively small increases in the size of a blank put much more demand on a lathe.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do,

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Don, I have turned on every lathe that is on the market right now, and some that aren't, with the exception of some Harbor Freight and some mini lathes. I own a Robust and a Vega for my big machines, based on my experience and preferences. But as Ed has written, you can't go wrong buying a Powermatic. It is a fine machine, and will serve you well. I think the Jet John Jordan mentions is the 1642, which gives you variable speed and three phase power. It is also a very nice machine and capable of doing very good work. If I were you I would not buy anything smaller than the Jet 1642. Once the shine wears off of anything less expensive, I don't think you will see it as that big of a jump from your current machine.

Different people have different philosophies on how to purchase lathes. I bought the best I could afford when I started, which meant bottom of the line. I worked my way up from lathe to lathe in quick succession. But then again, it was a business for me, and as my abilities and bankroll grew, so did the size and quality of my lathe. I happen to think that the lathes I currently own are the best out there. Probably everyone else thinks the same about theirs. 😉 When you get to this level, it is more about features and less about money. But there are a lot of good choices before you get here. That is up to you, how much you want to spend, and what you want to see in the way of features and capabilities. Good luck with it.

 

[KEW]

I like most of us moved up but if I had it to do over again, I would start out with the Oneway that I now have.
Malcolm Smith.

Certainly this advise makes sense if you are certain turning will be a long-term endeavor for you (or if you do not need to worry about a budget).
Unless your view into the future is fool-proof, I believe it is very worthwhile to upgrade about twice along the way. I've upgraded twice before I got a PM 3520B. I lost a total of $150 between what I paid and what I sold (I only buy good deals). Not bad for 3 years of having a blast turning.
This trial period gives the chance to:
1) Know you're serious enough to justify expensive equipment (before turning, my hobbies had averaged ~5 years).
2) Know which lathe is the one you will be comfortable with for the long haul.

Generally, by the time most of us have been on this board, we have been turning for awhile and could have saved money buying our last lathe as our first lathe, but I do know people who just never got the bug and moved on after 2-3 years (or, simply consider their lathe complementary to flat work for when they need some table legs, etc).

 

[Steve Worcester]

but if I had it to do over again, I would start out with the Oneway that I now have. .

Frankly, I would agree, if you can afford it. Granted, I am on my second Oneway, got a bigger more HP on the second. But it (as well as Robust or Stubby) is a financial commitment. That said, they also retain their resale real well and if you decide turning for you, you can sell them fairly easily.