Advice on a Vacuum Chuck and Air Compressor

[Allen Seidman]

I am looking to get a vacuum chuck. From what I have read and been told they are a superior choice for finishing the bottom of bowls than a Cole or Longworth chuck.

Question is:

1) which vacuum chuck system ?
2) how to create the vacuum ? I am thinking an air compressor with a vacuum generator based on advice from a friend.

For the vacuum chuck - I prefer to buy vs build. I have seen two major brands - any insights on quality, pros and cons ? They are:
1) Simple Woodturning Tools
2) Holdfast

For the air compressor:
1) any reason not to go with a Harbour Freight Fortress ? I have heard many people trash HF but all reviews I have read seem to day this compressor is a winner ! Thoughts. A fried suggested California Air Tools. Is it really worth the extra dollars ? HF sells a 2 yr replacement plan.
2) what size compressor do I need ? One friend told me 30gallon capacity. Will 26 do ? What about 15 ? How do I get a feel for capacity requirements ? Can I go with a smaller/cheaper (but quiet) unit ? Or will I regret it.
3) I plan to use the compressor for everything turning related. Vacuum chuck, blower for vessels to get the shavings out, eventually to drive a power carving handheld tool, etc...

thanks for your insight !
Allen

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[John Hicks]

As far as the vacuum chuck; the Holdfast is pretty good; although the vacuum generator system will leave a small compressor running almost constantly. I use the Hold fast system, but replaced the venturi unit with a vacuum pump from frugal. My 60 gallon Quincy upright air compressor ran every 4-5 minutes using the hold fast generator.
I also replaced the seals on the hold fast chucks with chucky seals.
If you want the best chucks; I'd say the Oneway are top notch.

Keep in mind that vacuum chucks will not hold everything!

 

[Marc Banka]

I use, and enjoy the one-way system. The chucks are quite robust—not cheap, but very strong and true. I use their chucks for more than vacuum use.
I don’t think the compressor to a venturi is efficient. Makes a lot of noise, can’t produce a strong vacuum, not compared to a decent vacuum pump. Get one from Frugal. I’ve had mine 5 years with very little maintenance and no troubles.
As far as hf tools go, remember that you’ll get what you pay for, nothing more.

 

[Allen Seidman]

As far as the vacuum chuck; the Holdfast is pretty good; although the vacuum generator system will leave a small compressor running almost constantly. I use the Hold fast system, but replaced the venturi unit with a vacuum pump from frugal. My 60 gallon Quincy upright air compressor ran every 4-5 minutes using the hold fast generator.
I also replaced the seals on the hold fast chucks with chucky seals.
If you want the best chucks; I'd say the Oneway are top notch.

Keep in mind that vacuum chucks will not hold everything!

What will they not hold ?

Are you saying that the reason I need as much as 30 gallon capacity is the vaccine generator running off a compressor ? Am I better off with a vacuum unit and a smaller air compressor ? How big do I need to go for simple blowing of shavings and eventually power carving w an air-based unit ?

 

[Gary Beasley]

A vacuum pump is way better, quieter and more efficient and capable of higher vacuum if needed. My pump is overkill, a 15cfm Gast vane pump. I got a oneway vacuum adaptor for my Nova and made my own chucks. The extra cfm is great to overcome any leakage you might get from bug holes and porous wood.

 

[John Hicks]

What will they not hold ?

Are you saying that the reason I need as much as 30 gallon capacity is the vaccine generator running off a compressor ? Am I better off with a vacuum unit and a smaller air compressor ? How big do I need to go for simple blowing of shavings and eventually power carving w an air-based unit ?

I believe the cfm required to run the hold fast is 2.5 at 55-65 psi. So as long as the compressor you choose meets those requirements, it should work fine. But it will run alot while your using the vacuum chucks. Blowing air doesn't take a big compressor. I always look for a bigger used compressor that costs the same as a new smaller one.

 

[Tom Gall]

You've posted this in two places. Below is what I commented on under the For Sale category.

Allen, do a search on this site for "vacuum, vacuum pumps, vacuum chucks, etc." and you will find a lot of information.

I would much rather run a fractional HP motor (mine is 1/4HP) rather than a 2 - 5 HP compressor motor with a venturi type system. Much quieter and way more economical. And, the vac pump (at least the one I have) is continuous duty.

I see you're fairly close to me in NJ - you're welcome to pay a visit if you want. I've been using vacuum chucking for 27 years now and I think I have all the bugs worked out.

 

[Allen Seidman]

You've posted this in two places. Below is what I commented on under the For Sale category.

Allen, do a search on this site for "vacuum, vacuum pumps, vacuum chucks, etc." and you will find a lot of information.

I would much rather run a fractional HP motor (mine is 1/4HP) rather than a 2 - 5 HP compressor motor with a venturi type system. Much quieter and way more economical. And, the vac pump (at least the one I have) is continuous duty.

I see you're fairly close to me in NJ - you're welcome to pay a visit if you want. I've been using vacuum chucking for 27 years now and I think I have all the bugs worked out.

May I ask what equipment you are using (vacuum chuck and vacuum) a d what it ran you ? I may take you up on a visit of your open to it.

 

[Dean Center]

Allen, read John Hicks' comments carefully. He's been through this. The venturi system simply isn't as effective as a vacuum pump, as others have commented. If cost is a factor and you want some help, the Frugal site is a good place to start.

For more background, as suggested, do a forum search or turn to the AAW Explore feature on the web site. There were 3 articles on vacuum chucking in the American Woodturner by a woodturning engineer named John Giem. The one from 2011 is probably the one you want, though if you are also an engineer or like lots of details, the article from 2014 adds depth. There are probably other articles by other folks, too.

Having an air compressor to use in woodturning is a helpful thing, just not as your vacuum system. But that's a different question.

 

[Tom Gall]

May I ask what equipment you are using (vacuum chuck and vacuum) a d what it ran you ? I may take you up on a visit of your open to it.

My newest pump was purchased in 2003 - A Gast pump (model#G588EDX) but almost any vac pump will work fine. Previously I had a Gast pump from Surplus Center (no longer available). I probably have 20+ homemade chucks and two of the Oneway chucks which are excellent but pricey. You can probably get away with 2-3 different chucks to cover most of your needs. With a little thought you can make a vac chuck to hold almost anything.

Basic needs: Pump, rotary union (adapter), gauge(s), and a chuck.
PS - I see you are a new member of the NJ Woodturners. You can find my contact info on their website if you wish.

 

[John Hicks]

Just remember; there are several other ways to do the same thing without spending a bunch of money on a vacuum chuck system.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I've been using the Oneway vacuum chucks with a Rubber Chuckie gasket. Very convenient, works splendidly, the only downside is cost. You can certainly make your own much more cheaply, I'd rather spend my time doing other things.

Now that I have the vacuum chuck it is my preferred method for finishing the bottoms of pieces. I like to do things like undercut the foot slightly, something that is very hard to do with a tailstock in the way. The hold can be very tenuous with thin, ring-porous woods. They leak like crazy! So multiple different solutions always need to be on hand.

Used vacuum pumps can be found very reasonably on the auction site. I got a 240 v one that was absurdly cheap, since I already had 240V right there for the lathe it was an easy add. I also use it for vacuum bag veneering, a huge improvement over the 800 clamps I used to use.

 

[Dave Bunge]

I've been using the Oneway vacuum chucks with a Rubber Chuckie gasket. Very convenient, works splendidly, the only downside is cost. You can certainly make your own much more cheaply,

Roger, do you have any recommendations on what size(s) Oneway vacuum chuck to get? I see the cost goes up fast with with the diameter. I'm thinking the 3 1/2" and 5 1/2" sizes should handle most reasonably sized bowls. Have you had a need to use any of the larger ones?

 

[Dean Center]

Roger, do you have any recommendations on what size(s) Oneway vacuum chuck to get? I see the cost goes up fast with with the diameter. I'm thinking the 3 1/2" and 5 1/2" sizes should handle most reasonably sized bowls. Have you had a need to use any of the larger ones?

(Engineers and physicists, please forgive my improper use of terminology.)

The strength of the hold will be greater with larger diameter chucks. With that in mind, you want the largest diameter chuck that will fit inside the bowls you typically turn. That's why most of us using vacuum chucks have multiple chucks--to fit the variety of sizes of bowls we turn.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

At this point I only have the 5" chuck, it works for most of what I do. I'd like something larger, but it hasn't gotten to be a high enough priority to place the order. I've finished 20" bowls on the 5" chuck, but I'm really careful to take only light cuts and keep tailstock pressure on (using a rubber pad to avoid damaging the bottom) through as much of the process as possible. Likewise I'd like a smaller one, so far I've just held the work differently when it is too small for the chuck. One of these days I'll probably expand the set.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I am looking to get a vacuum chuck.

+1 on the Frugal Vacuum Chuck from Bob Leonard. He sells the complete "enchilada". The pump can run continuously (for days if that's what your project needs). Although you can make your own chucks, Bob does sell some ready made units.

I have one of his 4" chucks. I keep thinking I'll make some others, but thus far I've been able to design my projects around that chuck.

a superior choice for finishing the bottom of bowls than a Cole or Longworth chuck.

That depends entirely on what you're turning.

 

[Bob Sheppard]

If you have a chance, take Tom Gall up on his offer to visit his shop. He's one of the most creative turners I know personally, and is very willing to share his skills.

 

[Tom Gall]

If you have a chance, take Tom Gall up on his offer to visit his shop. He's one of the most creative turners I know personally, and is very willing to share his skills.

Awwww.....thanks, Bob.
The check is in the mail.

 

[Larry Copas]

4" to 27". The 4" and 8" are quite similar to the style David Ellsworth makes and probably cost less than a $1.

 

[Ric Williams]

I watched ebay and got a used Gast vacuum pump for under $250, put a rebuild kit in it for $30. Should run the rest of my life. Made my own vacuum chucks and a vacuum faceplate using Rubber Chucky seals, PVC fittings and threaded maple bases, remote AC control for the pump, vacuum gauge and controls on a panel behind the lathe . Made my own (wobbly) spindle vacuum adapter, but later replaced it with a Robust adapter.

Oh yeah, the air compressor. Started out with a really loud and annoying 30 year old Craftsman compressor, but quickly got a California Air 8 gallon 1 hp quiet compressor that's adequate for blow gun use, but I wouldn't use it for generating a vacuum. It'd be running constantly for that. I'm happy with the compressor, but I'll want to upgrade to a full size eventually.

 

[Gary Beasley]

One thing I learned when making my chucks is wood leaks air more than you would think. Some worse than others. I made sure to seal all the surfaces inside and out with a good penetrating finish. Thin CA does a good job as well as many of the thinner varnishes. Not sure how well oil finish will do. I also think its a good idea to soak wood threads in CA to firm them up as well as sealing the pores.

 

[Allen Seidman]

+1 on the Frugal Vacuum Chuck from Bob Leonard. He sells the complete "enchilada". The pump can run continuously (for days if that's what your project needs). Although you can make your own chucks, Bob does sell some ready made units.

I have one of his 4" chucks. I keep thinking I'll make some others, but thus far I've been able to design my projects around that chuck.



That depends entirely on what you're turning.

Say more !

 

[Kevin Jenness]

For info on compressors see this thread buying a compressor. You want a pump that will supply enough airflow at a specified pressure to run the hungriest tool you plan on using. Many die grinders, sanders and spray guns really want a 5hp unit, but you probably don't need that. A blow gun does not need much air. A large tank gives a buffer before the pump kicks in to maintain pressure, after that it's a battle between output and consumption.

As said, venturi vacuum devices are inefficient (air powered tools in general are inefficient, but simple and durable). Used vacuum pumps are easily found on Ebay for under $200. I use a 1/4 hp Gast rated at about 3cfm for bowl chucking, veneering and general low profile clamping.

Vacuum is very useful, but has its limits- won't work for pieces that won't hold air. Thin material is more leaky, and workpieces have to be close to flat or round for the gasket to seal.. Holding power depends on surface area. It is easy to make chucks like the ones Larry Copas shows above with wood, plywood, sched 40 pvc pipe and self-adhesive closed cell foam.

I have a Holdfast adapter with a bearing and hose nipple outboard of the headstock, a threaded lamp tube running through it, and a seal nut on the inboard end. Some adapters seal to the spindle bore without needing the other parts, and I assume they work well while being a bit faster to set up.

I find for security I still use the tailstock as long as possible with the vacuum chuck as a friction drive, meaning that the vacuum is used at the very end of the bottom turning phase. Some also use it to hold the piece for finishing the outside and bottom unobstructed. You will have to decide if setting up a vacuum chucking system is worth it for you.

 

[Allen Seidman]

For info on compressors see this thread buying a compressor. You want a pump that will supply enough airflow at a specified pressure to run the hungriest tool you plan on using. Many die grinders, sanders and spray guns really want a 5hp unit, but you probably don't need that. A blow gun does not need much air. A large tank gives a buffer before the pump kicks in to maintain pressure, after that it's a battle between output and consumption.

As said, venturi vacuum devices are inefficient (air powered tools in general are inefficient, but simple and durable). Used vacuum pumps are easily found on Ebay for under $200. I use a 1/4 hp Gast rated at about 3cfm for bowl chucking, veneering and general low profile clamping.

Vacuum is very useful, but has its limits- won't work for pieces that won't hold air. Thin material is more leaky, and workpieces have to be close to flat or round for the gasket to seal.. Holding power depends on surface area. It is easy to make chucks like the ones Larry Copas shows above with wood, plywood, sched 40 pvc pipe and self-adhesive closed cell foam.

I have a Holdfast adapter with a bearing and hose nipple outboard of the headstock, a threaded lamp tube running through it, and a seal nut on the inboard end. Some adapters seal to the spindle bore without needing the other parts, and I assume they work well while being a bit faster to set up.

I find for security I still use the tailstock as long as possible with the vacuum chuck as a friction drive, meaning that the vacuum is used at the very end of the bottom turning phase. Some also use it to hold the piece for finishing the outside and bottom unobstructed. You will have to decide if setting up a vacuum chucking system is worth it for you.

Great insight. Thank you

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Say more !

I don't understand, did you have a specific question you wanted follow up on?

 

[Tony Perelli]

View attachment 41027

4" to 27". The 4" and 8" are quite similar to the style David Ellsworth makes and probably cost less than a $1.

Larry - how well do the large flat ones work for you? It seems that one like that could fit many different sized bowls or plates.

 

[Breck Whitworth]

I realize this is a late comment but I turn hundreds of bowls every year and I use the Frugal Vacuum Chuck from Bob Leonard, it has worked perfectly fine for 6 years straight and still working. Cost is easy on the wallet and the vacuum chuck and everything you need can come with it at a much lower cost that buying a high end vacuum pump and all the chucks. I bought the complete system and have never had a problem other than replacing the foam every few hundred bowls cost maybe a $2.00 and some tape. I have reversed turned up to a 19" bowl using the 6" chuck

 

[Tom Gall]

Larry - how well do the large flat ones work for you? It seems that one like that could fit many different sized bowls or plates.

I'm not Larry but, they work great and you will get maximum vacuum for the size of your bowl...not just what you are limited to with a 6"-5"-3" chuck, etc. Of course, your rim has to be pretty flat (true) and not warped.

 

[Tony Perelli]

I'm not Larry but, they work great and you will get maximum vacuum for the size of your bowl...not just what you are limited to with a 6"-5"-3" chuck, etc. Of course, your rim has to be pretty flat (true) and not warped.

Hey Tom. Thanks. Cool, it sure Seems super versatile.

 

[Dave Hulett]

I realize this is a late comment but I turn hundreds of bowls every year and I use the Frugal Vacuum Chuck from Bob Leonard, it has worked perfectly fine for 6 years straight and still working. Cost is easy on the wallet and the vacuum chuck and everything you need can come with it at a much lower cost that buying a high end vacuum pump and all the chucks. I bought the complete system and have never had a problem other than replacing the foam every few hundred bowls cost maybe a $2.00 and some tape. I have reversed turned up to a 19" bowl using the 6" chuck

ditto here. been using my Frugal Vacuum Chuck for 4 or 5 years and love it.

 

[Larry Copas]

The flat ones works great. Only one caution, on larger bowls with thin walls the vacuum can crack it. I turn down the vacuum for those bowls. It's also possible to offset the work on the disc and do eccentric type stuff on the bottom.

Excuse me for the slow reply, musta been asleep at the wheel.

 

[Tony Perelli]

The flat ones works great. Only one caution, on larger bowls with thin walls the vacuum can crack it. I turn down the vacuum for those bowls. It's also possible to offset the work on the disc and do eccentric type stuff on the bottom.

Excuse me for the slow reply, musta been asleep at the wheel.

All good, thanks Larry! I have a background in clay/pottery and those flat ones feel familiar in process to to what I may use making pots. Thanks for your help.