I hold the board responsible for many foo-pas that occurred at the symposium. Yes the site was selected well before anyone could forecast the attendance and this was the cause of the hotel, demo and banquet problems. If they would have limited attendance as does many other symposia to a number that could have been accomodated by the site such problems would not have occurred. Most of the demo rooms we packed to the point of being over filled, the cameras as for as I was concerned were a step back from prior symposium. The sound system problems at the banquet should never have happened. What the AAW needs is a professional Trade Show/ Conference organizer to handle such issues. At least 2 months ago I think the AAW knew of such attendance problems, It was not a last minute discovery. Every thing from the crowded halls to the elevator problems were predictable. Not to put on extra rotations was a mistake. What was done with the added revenue? The added over 600 people from the prior symposium added a minimum of $141,000 to the aaw coffers. I can only say the Utah event looks better and better each year.
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AAW symposium comments
- Thread starter Dave Beringer
- Start date
Seems all this has already been discussed in another thread, but maybe you missed it.
I guess it was all a matter of perspective. I seemed to get in every demo I wanted, volunteers working cameras did a pretty good job in my opinion for volunteers, and I applaud the volunteer board for handling a far larger than expected crowd without turning away any one that wanted to come. Pretty easy to look at it after the fact and find fault, but I enjoyed it overall. Looking forward to Portland and hope the crowd is even bigger!
I guess it was all a matter of perspective. I seemed to get in every demo I wanted, volunteers working cameras did a pretty good job in my opinion for volunteers, and I applaud the volunteer board for handling a far larger than expected crowd without turning away any one that wanted to come. Pretty easy to look at it after the fact and find fault, but I enjoyed it overall. Looking forward to Portland and hope the crowd is even bigger!
woodwish read my reply
Woodwish:
I think your attitude that every thing was great and patting people on the back is wrong. I think honest reflection and evaluation only make the organization better. My point isn't to condem but to make sure portland is better. In a growing organization especially the size of the AAW I believe it may take a attitude shift in the management of the organization to truly make a difference. A daily executive administrator is a good start. A professional conference organizer would be a close second. I don't hold an unpaid board at fault except to say the need to realize maybe the task of running the organization and symposium is beyond there commitment to manage such events. I agree I applaud the board for their service but is may take more than a volunteer board to manage a growing organization the size of the AAW and the symposium. I also think limiting attendance would have been a good idea. I believe in quality of the product. The hell with setting resounding attendance records. My other point was that many of the problems encountered were easily predictable looking at the setup of the hotel and knowing the crowds expected. The crowds were unexpected in december of last year but it seems to me as of april they were pretty well known that was when the Galt sold out of rooms.
Woodwish:
I think your attitude that every thing was great and patting people on the back is wrong. I think honest reflection and evaluation only make the organization better. My point isn't to condem but to make sure portland is better. In a growing organization especially the size of the AAW I believe it may take a attitude shift in the management of the organization to truly make a difference. A daily executive administrator is a good start. A professional conference organizer would be a close second. I don't hold an unpaid board at fault except to say the need to realize maybe the task of running the organization and symposium is beyond there commitment to manage such events. I agree I applaud the board for their service but is may take more than a volunteer board to manage a growing organization the size of the AAW and the symposium. I also think limiting attendance would have been a good idea. I believe in quality of the product. The hell with setting resounding attendance records. My other point was that many of the problems encountered were easily predictable looking at the setup of the hotel and knowing the crowds expected. The crowds were unexpected in december of last year but it seems to me as of april they were pretty well known that was when the Galt sold out of rooms.
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I found the symposium an absolutely fantastic event. A big thanks to the staff and volunteers who put it together. Do not perceive my comments below as negative. They are thoughts to aid in future events. (You guys really did a fantastic job given all the unexpected numbers.)
I would like to see the trade show open prior to the demos. I felt some real pressure to hit the trade show early, "thinking" everything would sell out if I did not. I missed one rotation just to make it. (And I know I am not the only equipment freak at the show!) Next time have venders begin a day early or leave more time in the rotation schedule for shopping.
Yes, the elevators and the breakfast line were the pits. They were both problem with the capabilities of the hotel, especially with the hostess.
In the many times I have been to conferances, the organization provides drinks, coffie, and snacks at no charge. I do not like paying 2 bucks for 25 cents worth of coffie and being able to get it only after standing in line! Surely with the high symposium fee and great sales of AAW items, something can be provided at future events... even if just the negotiation of reduced prices for those with a name tag.
I hope that limits on attendance will not have to be imposed. I can accept that mandatory reservations be made in advance to avoid this years problems; which I heard were the result of some 600 unexpected people. The AAW may need to move vendors and demos to an actual convention center and lodge folks in several surrounding hotels. It seems to me that with the growth of interest in woodturning, more can be expected in the future.
The sound problems at the dinner should not have happened. Also, the jam up before the doors opened was not fun.
Something really needs to be done with the quality of the camera work at the demos and with room lighting. I know most was done by volunteers and many did extremely well. However, in some cases the volunteers were just about clueless and it was very frustrating to see the problems with focus issues, and camera movement, and with glare on the big screens from room lights.... (another problem with the Galt House facilities). I don't have any suggestions beyond more training for the volunteers and the seeking of "experienced" camera operators who will pay attention to the job of operating the cameras and not to the demo. Perhaps with smaller rooms and more rotations some of the problems will resolve.
I am ready to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I will be a volunteer to help for the next symposium near enough to my home to make it economically feasible for me to be more active in the setup and planning. I will also stand by to serve on any email operated committee where the fine AAW thinks I can help.
Ron Wilson
I would like to see the trade show open prior to the demos. I felt some real pressure to hit the trade show early, "thinking" everything would sell out if I did not. I missed one rotation just to make it. (And I know I am not the only equipment freak at the show!) Next time have venders begin a day early or leave more time in the rotation schedule for shopping.
Yes, the elevators and the breakfast line were the pits. They were both problem with the capabilities of the hotel, especially with the hostess.
In the many times I have been to conferances, the organization provides drinks, coffie, and snacks at no charge. I do not like paying 2 bucks for 25 cents worth of coffie and being able to get it only after standing in line! Surely with the high symposium fee and great sales of AAW items, something can be provided at future events... even if just the negotiation of reduced prices for those with a name tag.
I hope that limits on attendance will not have to be imposed. I can accept that mandatory reservations be made in advance to avoid this years problems; which I heard were the result of some 600 unexpected people. The AAW may need to move vendors and demos to an actual convention center and lodge folks in several surrounding hotels. It seems to me that with the growth of interest in woodturning, more can be expected in the future.
The sound problems at the dinner should not have happened. Also, the jam up before the doors opened was not fun.
Something really needs to be done with the quality of the camera work at the demos and with room lighting. I know most was done by volunteers and many did extremely well. However, in some cases the volunteers were just about clueless and it was very frustrating to see the problems with focus issues, and camera movement, and with glare on the big screens from room lights.... (another problem with the Galt House facilities). I don't have any suggestions beyond more training for the volunteers and the seeking of "experienced" camera operators who will pay attention to the job of operating the cameras and not to the demo. Perhaps with smaller rooms and more rotations some of the problems will resolve.
I am ready to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I will be a volunteer to help for the next symposium near enough to my home to make it economically feasible for me to be more active in the setup and planning. I will also stand by to serve on any email operated committee where the fine AAW thinks I can help.
Ron Wilson
DJB- I agree with most of your reply to my reply. Maybe AAW does need to look beyond an all volunteer group to run the show, but I really have no idea of how all that operates. There did seem to be some empty rooms that could have been used for demos, and they probably should have added some. I never had a problem getting into any demo but I have heard others complain, guess I picked some of the less popular ones maybe. Galt House was full when I tried to book so I did any internet search and found a Comfort Inn just a few minutes walk from the GH. At first I was a little bummed but it appears it was a blessing- $72 per night, plenty of free parking, free breakfast, 1/2 price pizza from the PapaJon's in the parking lot, no fire alarms, no elevator problems, all the towels I could use, friendly desk crew that took about 60 seconds to check in, etc.
As I explained on another forum, I have worked around video most of my life and have spent the last 11 years as a high school video productions instructor. Therefore, I felt my best contribution was to volunteer as a camera operator for a few sessions (turns out I did 5). I think I did a good job given the equipment we had. Other volunteers that I saw in action were bad about getting involved with the demo from the best seat in the house and forgot about the camera, although a few comments from the crowd usually got them back on track. I don't have a solution for the operators other than compensate a few people that know what they are doing and not rely just on volunteers. Equipment is another issue, and I don't know who to talk to about this other than here. I have no idea how much equipment was rented, borrowed, or belongs to AAW. The main cameras were probably 8-10 year old very cheap 8mm cameras with minimal features. Even when they were new they would have been marginal for how they are being used, and many had bad auto-focus in them. I had one that was almost useless. They should be replaced with a newer camera that handles the pitiful lighting better. The overhead camera is a cheap survelliance camera not designed for that use, but in many rooms they were the best of the two. At least in the bigger sessions they should buy some decent camera and put them on real tripods instead of the low-bid specials. The Symposium has grown to where they should offer real video services to the crowd instead of just make-do equipment. One final suggestion would be in the smaller rooms with one screen it should be where the camera operator could see it, I spent all my time in those rooms turning around to see what was on the screen since the operator had no monitor to see.
I hope all the suggestions will be seen in a positive light by the board, and will be considered. It is a 6,000 mile roundtrip to Portland for me and I am not sure how it fits into my calendar for next summer, but if I make it I hope I can have some advance input on the video services at least.
One last comment- I can overlook all the small problems and blame it on growing pains, with the exception of that coffee. Luckily my cheap hotel had coffeemakers in the rooms and plenty of free coffee with the breakfast, but I did buy one cup from the GH. I have swallowed a lot of bad coffee over the years but I had to throw that away. :mad:
Overall I think most had a great time, and will try to attend again, but there is always room for improvement. 😉
As I explained on another forum, I have worked around video most of my life and have spent the last 11 years as a high school video productions instructor. Therefore, I felt my best contribution was to volunteer as a camera operator for a few sessions (turns out I did 5). I think I did a good job given the equipment we had. Other volunteers that I saw in action were bad about getting involved with the demo from the best seat in the house and forgot about the camera, although a few comments from the crowd usually got them back on track. I don't have a solution for the operators other than compensate a few people that know what they are doing and not rely just on volunteers. Equipment is another issue, and I don't know who to talk to about this other than here. I have no idea how much equipment was rented, borrowed, or belongs to AAW. The main cameras were probably 8-10 year old very cheap 8mm cameras with minimal features. Even when they were new they would have been marginal for how they are being used, and many had bad auto-focus in them. I had one that was almost useless. They should be replaced with a newer camera that handles the pitiful lighting better. The overhead camera is a cheap survelliance camera not designed for that use, but in many rooms they were the best of the two. At least in the bigger sessions they should buy some decent camera and put them on real tripods instead of the low-bid specials. The Symposium has grown to where they should offer real video services to the crowd instead of just make-do equipment. One final suggestion would be in the smaller rooms with one screen it should be where the camera operator could see it, I spent all my time in those rooms turning around to see what was on the screen since the operator had no monitor to see.
I hope all the suggestions will be seen in a positive light by the board, and will be considered. It is a 6,000 mile roundtrip to Portland for me and I am not sure how it fits into my calendar for next summer, but if I make it I hope I can have some advance input on the video services at least.
One last comment- I can overlook all the small problems and blame it on growing pains, with the exception of that coffee. Luckily my cheap hotel had coffeemakers in the rooms and plenty of free coffee with the breakfast, but I did buy one cup from the GH. I have swallowed a lot of bad coffee over the years but I had to throw that away. :mad:
Overall I think most had a great time, and will try to attend again, but there is always room for improvement. 😉
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Bill Grumbine
In Memorium
woodwish said:
It really isn't a matter of perspective, it is a matter of experience. I see this all the time in a number of different ways. Someone will report their experience, and then someone else will report a different, usually opposite experience that supposedly negates the validity of the first person. I am the furthest thing you can get from being subjective, but it is very easy to see where both can be true.
I found the manager of the hotel to tell that person that in my experience I had never encountered such shabby service. I am not talking about people not flocking to my every whim and desire, I am talking about being put in a smoking room when I asked for non smoking, having my reservation cut short by a day and getting a runaround, no towels or washcloths and taking 45 minutes for someone from the housekeeping staff to "run" them up to my room. The list with the hotel goes on, but why bother? I have already documented it for them. I also found a bright spot for them, a single ray in the dark and dingy mess that was my stay.
I know other people did not have that experience. I know others had worse and some had better. How does any of that negate mine? Would anyone like to post - with their full and real name - saying that I am unreasonable expecting to find towels and washcloths in a room that is costing me $142.00 per night? Would you like to call me a liar because I had no towels in my room and you did? I know DJB personally, and I know what he and his family went through, and my experience pales compared to his.
I did not make it to any of the rotations. I could have left my place in the trade show with no repercussions to sit in a room half an hour before the demo started, but why? It would have been an unproductive use of my time in my experience. Others did not think so. That is their decision. I was disappointed that I did not get in, but there is nothing I can do about it. But I will know better next time. It is not hard to see that if there are 2500 people coming to see demonstrations where there is room for 2000 that there are going to be problems. That issue was raised on this forum and the whole thing was pooh poohed. Don't worry, there will be plenty of people sitting out any given rotation by spending time in the IG, trade show, or hallways. That didn't seem to be the case.
Now before someone jumps on my numbers, I am quoting from memory here, but I doubt anyone will dispute that the whole thing was overcrowded. That responsibility lies squarely with the people who organized the affair. It would not have been hard to put up a "No Vacancy" sign for registrations. There was a financial penalty for waiting beyond a certain date, so why is it so hard to say there is the penalty of not being able to come if a person waits until all the spots are full. How many strap hangers do you see on an airplane?
What is the incentive to register early if there is the chance that so many people will crowd the event to the point that it becomes unmanageable? I would rather hang back and go at the last minute. So what if it costs me a few more bucks? I would rather pay a few more bucks knowing I will be able to get in than save a few bucks only to find out I am going to have to fight constant crowds to get where I want.
Overall though, I had a good experience, good enough that despite all the negatives, I will attend another national symposium. I learned a few things though. First, I will not be staying at the hotel where the event is hosted, assuming it is hosted at a hotel again. I stayed at a Red Roof Inn on the way down and a Days Inn on the way back. The prices were such that I could have stayed all three days in a very nice room with towels for the whole time, and for about the same amount that one night cost me at the Galt House. I learned that the things that interested me the most, the trade show and the instant gallery, are open to me without having to register for the rotations. I could have saved a lot of money and eaten better food and still had all the time I wanted to socialize with all those with whom I socialized.
In the past I have been very critical of the AAW for things with which I did not agree. I have also been public in my praise for things I thought went well. But I am not one who is going to say the emperor has a nice suit on if his butt is hanging out for all to see.
Bill
Bill Grumbine
In Memorium
woodwish said:
This is exactly the stuff they need to hear! Someone with the experience to tell them that the inexperienced volunteer and old equipment routine just ain't cutting it anymore! You know from your own experience that no one can be trained to operate a camera competently in a single session anymore than they can learn to handle a bowl gouge competently in a single session. It takes practice and experience, and throwing substandard equipment into the mix makes it even worse!
How much better equipment could the AAW have if they had spent the money on better cameras instead of five Oneway 2436 lathes? Instead of making five people very happy, they could have made thousands of people very happy for years to come just with some better equipment. I write this not as a finger pointing exercise, but just as a for instance of how things could be done differently in the future.
Bill
I need to ask a question here. If the AAW were to hire a full time Symposium co-ordinator, professional camera operators, purchase new video or rent state of the art equip, etc, etc, would I still be able to afford to attend?
Jake Debski said:
They really don't need to do all that. Just do a better job of recruiting people that know what they are doing.
I'm in a group that puts on an event that draws about 1500 campers and 10,000 day visitors (every year). We do it all with a local volunteer staff. But we know what we are doing, and don't stint on what we have to do.
I've also been involved in many, many, other large programs over the years. Many of the more popular ones sometimes get hit with a lot more people then they expect. One thing all of the ones that use Hotels/Convention centers do is cut off attendance when the numbers attending hit the limit they are wiling have at that site, PERIOD. Even when they turn away people that have come thousands of miles. It certainly encourages pre-registration.
Personally, I would never attend a convention/trade-show/etc, for the door prizes. Frankly, if I were to win one of those monster lathes, I would sell it then and there. The suggestion that money be spent to improve the infrastructure (sans prizes) is a good one, it would pay for it self again and again. As one case in point, selling the video of the demo's.
As to the hotel's short commings: Not a surprise, we have had more then one hotel outright lie about their ability to handle a convention. Not much you can do about that, unless the shortcomings are bad enough to take then to court (usually they are just good enough that it's not worth it)
Just my gut feeling, I doubt next year's Portland convention will be as popular, we just don't draw as large a crowd here in the PNW.
Now, before someone asks me if I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, recall that event I mentioned at the start of this missive? Well, they want me to chair it next year, I guess it has something to do with that this will be the 25th anniversary, and I started this event. Since it is just weeks before the AAW convention.....
TTFN
Ralph
Bill:
I think you are right on the mark. I don't mean to say I had a bad time. I actually enjoyed much of the symposium. I think Mike Mahoney for one did an outstanding job. He seemed to extend himself by doing extra rotations and I thoroughly enjoyed the Mike and Stewart show saturday morning.
I am also not suggesting professional camera guys are necessary but I agree with Bill that better equipment is necessary. Every camera should have been take off of automatic focus.
I wonder how much money the auction would have generated if people could hear and know when their bid was accepted. I was lucky enough to win a bid near the end of the auction when the crowd was 1/5 of the original full house. Many people I heard left because they couldn't hear. The crowd quickly dwindled after the dinner. I also felt bad that Mary Lacer could not be heard. She has always been a pleasure to deal with and she deserves many kudos.
My reasoning for the large crowd is that it had nothing to do with the door prizes at all. I personally think it was because Louisville was within a days drive east west north and south from a large number of Turners making the trip practical. I have attended other symposia by air and I have to admit with my love for tools and wood driving makes it more pleasurable.
In closing I think the Organization has big enough shoulders to handle an honest evaluation of the event. It's really not a question of Blame but getting it corrected and improved for the next time.
I think you are right on the mark. I don't mean to say I had a bad time. I actually enjoyed much of the symposium. I think Mike Mahoney for one did an outstanding job. He seemed to extend himself by doing extra rotations and I thoroughly enjoyed the Mike and Stewart show saturday morning.
I am also not suggesting professional camera guys are necessary but I agree with Bill that better equipment is necessary. Every camera should have been take off of automatic focus.
I wonder how much money the auction would have generated if people could hear and know when their bid was accepted. I was lucky enough to win a bid near the end of the auction when the crowd was 1/5 of the original full house. Many people I heard left because they couldn't hear. The crowd quickly dwindled after the dinner. I also felt bad that Mary Lacer could not be heard. She has always been a pleasure to deal with and she deserves many kudos.
My reasoning for the large crowd is that it had nothing to do with the door prizes at all. I personally think it was because Louisville was within a days drive east west north and south from a large number of Turners making the trip practical. I have attended other symposia by air and I have to admit with my love for tools and wood driving makes it more pleasurable.
In closing I think the Organization has big enough shoulders to handle an honest evaluation of the event. It's really not a question of Blame but getting it corrected and improved for the next time.
As I discussed in the other thread the board evaluates all the feedback. We are happy to see the kudos, and there are plenty. It is easy to overlook the good things when a few things go wrong. It is also easy to look back at all the good things that went right and there were plenty of them.
Attendance and Sound:
The board did not know about the high attendance until 1 month prior to the conference. Just one single month ago, the registration was about 1,350. That's a little higher than last year. Then we had about 200 onsite registrations which is also higher than last year. This huge influx caused us to change the banquet facility just one month ago. It was scheduled to be in the same hall the opening ceremonies were in. That hall had very good sound. But we had to move the banquet or we would have had to deny some folks from attending in the original room. And that was not an option.
With just one month of planning, it is difficult to change an event of this size and have the changes be effective. A conference center such as Galt House requires a one year advance notice. Changing venues was not an option. As I indicated we will take this into account for next year.
Ralph - you have suggested we should have limited the number of attendees at some cutoff point. What if that cutoff point had been you and your friends? The AAW is not that type of organization.
Lathe Setup
One thing that happened this year is that we had a professional conference person handle all the lathe setup and teardown. That is a massive task. In previous years it was all volunteer and board member work. You didn't see that work occur, but it was professional and well coordinated. That effort will be continued into next year.
Rotations:
Personally I only attended 3 rotations and had expected them to be full - the three panels. They were well done and insightful discussions. But they were only half full. Yet last year the panels (sponsored by the same people) were jam packed. It is challenging to forecast why and how things change.
Volunteering:
Our volunteer board is a dedicated group of people. Personally I estimate my annual commitment will total about 300-400 hours by the end of this year. It is easy to "armchair-quarterback" the event planning and how the organization should be run. I would ask that our members consider volunteering their time to the organization. The rewards are great and it makes for a better organization and symposium overall.
- 3 formal exhibitions (instead of one)
- Complete tradeshow with adequate facilities
- Instant Gallery space in a nice location
- Instant Gallery critique - specifically improved from last year in a dedicated room
- Registration desk and AAW product desk worked well
- Variety of demonstrations - covering spectrum from beginners to advanced
- Kona Coffee at the banquet kindly provided for free from Dave Somers from Hawaii
- Helpful AAW staff and volunteers
Attendance and Sound:
The board did not know about the high attendance until 1 month prior to the conference. Just one single month ago, the registration was about 1,350. That's a little higher than last year. Then we had about 200 onsite registrations which is also higher than last year. This huge influx caused us to change the banquet facility just one month ago. It was scheduled to be in the same hall the opening ceremonies were in. That hall had very good sound. But we had to move the banquet or we would have had to deny some folks from attending in the original room. And that was not an option.
With just one month of planning, it is difficult to change an event of this size and have the changes be effective. A conference center such as Galt House requires a one year advance notice. Changing venues was not an option. As I indicated we will take this into account for next year.
Ralph - you have suggested we should have limited the number of attendees at some cutoff point. What if that cutoff point had been you and your friends? The AAW is not that type of organization.
Lathe Setup
One thing that happened this year is that we had a professional conference person handle all the lathe setup and teardown. That is a massive task. In previous years it was all volunteer and board member work. You didn't see that work occur, but it was professional and well coordinated. That effort will be continued into next year.
Rotations:
Personally I only attended 3 rotations and had expected them to be full - the three panels. They were well done and insightful discussions. But they were only half full. Yet last year the panels (sponsored by the same people) were jam packed. It is challenging to forecast why and how things change.
Volunteering:
Our volunteer board is a dedicated group of people. Personally I estimate my annual commitment will total about 300-400 hours by the end of this year. It is easy to "armchair-quarterback" the event planning and how the organization should be run. I would ask that our members consider volunteering their time to the organization. The rewards are great and it makes for a better organization and symposium overall.
Let me add some improvements that I was thinking about. These are things that aren't really broken but as a computer guy I want to personally fix them.
Late registration with badges
Well, we want all attendees to sign up before the event but some don't. This year we had 200 (another record). The badges are hand written. They aren't pretty. Next year I'll coordinate some type of setup where we can printout badges onsite. Also I'll see if we can get online registration available at the site. We'll have the new software up and running by that time.
Instant Gallery labels
Ok, my handwriting isn't great. But some others are competing with that bad writing! I'll coordinate some way to get label printouts available onsite. Maybe 2 or 3 computers where people can type them in. Maybe have people submit their info prior to the conference and we bring the printouts. I just think this could be a more professional experience. Heck, some people spend 100 hours on a piece and 5 seconds on the label. It doesn't make sense.
Online registration
Next year (in January actually) we'll have the new software in place. You will not have to click "I'm a member" to get the member discount. Once you sign in using your AAW login and password, it will recognize that you are a member and you will get the discount. In the AAW office, they will not have to manually check whether you are a member or not - so it will save them time too.
Other??
Do y'all have some good suggestions for improvements in this area?
Late registration with badges
Well, we want all attendees to sign up before the event but some don't. This year we had 200 (another record). The badges are hand written. They aren't pretty. Next year I'll coordinate some type of setup where we can printout badges onsite. Also I'll see if we can get online registration available at the site. We'll have the new software up and running by that time.
Instant Gallery labels
Ok, my handwriting isn't great. But some others are competing with that bad writing! I'll coordinate some way to get label printouts available onsite. Maybe 2 or 3 computers where people can type them in. Maybe have people submit their info prior to the conference and we bring the printouts. I just think this could be a more professional experience. Heck, some people spend 100 hours on a piece and 5 seconds on the label. It doesn't make sense.
Online registration
Next year (in January actually) we'll have the new software in place. You will not have to click "I'm a member" to get the member discount. Once you sign in using your AAW login and password, it will recognize that you are a member and you will get the discount. In the AAW office, they will not have to manually check whether you are a member or not - so it will save them time too.
Other??
Do y'all have some good suggestions for improvements in this area?
Jeff - You asked for other ideas - I have a few complaints, but no where near as bad as what has already been posted - so I will leave those out. I think the one thing I would like to see the most is more time (not rotation time) for the Instant Gallery and the Vendor area. I have attended enough of the symposiums that I did not miss too much by missing a couple of rotations to visit the Instant Gallery and the Vendors - but I know that someone newer would like to attend all the rotations.
I liked the sound system during the rotations (did not attend the banquet - sounds like that was a good idea). The camera work was good at most of the rotations that I attended. But maybe there should be better training for the volunteers who do the camera work - since all were not on the same level. As far as the over crowding during the rotations - maybe on the ones that you expect a large crowd - you could double or triple (or even 4X) up so one would have more than one or two chances to attend and it would spread out the crowd.
My wife is already planning the trip to Portland next year. See you there.
Hugh
I liked the sound system during the rotations (did not attend the banquet - sounds like that was a good idea). The camera work was good at most of the rotations that I attended. But maybe there should be better training for the volunteers who do the camera work - since all were not on the same level. As far as the over crowding during the rotations - maybe on the ones that you expect a large crowd - you could double or triple (or even 4X) up so one would have more than one or two chances to attend and it would spread out the crowd.
My wife is already planning the trip to Portland next year. See you there.
Hugh
Hugh - I think those are valid suggestions.
The board has already considered extending the times for the Instant Gallery and the Vendor area. So that may occur. For the vendors it is a challenge. Maybe if we setup a period for 3 hours each day where they could have a defined break it might work. It's tough for some of them to be open for 12 hour days, several days in a row. But I agree this should be considered. (Heck I would like it too so that I could see the IG especially).
For video, we know it could be better. We put in large screens this year instead of actual TVs and that definitely improved it. Some of the rooms could be bigger for the "famous" woodturners.
Computer stuff - if anyone has suggestions I would like to evaluate them.
Hugh - see you next year in Portland, it should be fun! Let's see, what could we submit for the Turned Green exhibit???
The board has already considered extending the times for the Instant Gallery and the Vendor area. So that may occur. For the vendors it is a challenge. Maybe if we setup a period for 3 hours each day where they could have a defined break it might work. It's tough for some of them to be open for 12 hour days, several days in a row. But I agree this should be considered. (Heck I would like it too so that I could see the IG especially).
For video, we know it could be better. We put in large screens this year instead of actual TVs and that definitely improved it. Some of the rooms could be bigger for the "famous" woodturners.
Computer stuff - if anyone has suggestions I would like to evaluate them.
Hugh - see you next year in Portland, it should be fun! Let's see, what could we submit for the Turned Green exhibit???
Symposium good but could be much better
This was originally posted to Buddy Riley the president of Louisviile turning club on woodcentral.com. These comments are in the order of thought, not as to whom they apply. I feel that my wife and I earned the right to express some of these by the fact that we both volunteered each for one long and one short session in the youth turning room. This was our first symposium and overall it was wonderful. The hotel had many problems, most have been mentioned many times. They took our partial soap bars and did not replace them, and no towels. They left full overflowing trash cans. Either the AAW or Galt website said there were microwaves in the rooms. BIG LIE. We brought food to cook for medical reasons. This was very inconvenient, $33 for a Wal-Mart microwave fixed that. The hotel employees generally could not answer questions about the Galt, let alone about Louisville.
Many of the problems could have been solved with more volunteers. I think that one hour of volunteer work should be required of all attendees. AAW should charge the fee for the symposium and then add a surcharge of say FIFTY dollars which will be refunded after you work your shift. Make the surcharge expensive enough to encourage us to volunteer.
Now for some other comments and suggestions:
1. Don’t separate the kids from their families when awarding the lathes. I would love to have a picture of my grandson’s face when he won his. I could not take a picture from 300 feet away.
2. Use more signage to direct the crowds to their destination. Signs at 90° to traffic flow would have been much easier to see.
3. Hotel maps were small enough to be confusing.
4. Last minute rotation changes should have been handed out with the registration packet, not put on a board that we did not find for at least a day.
5. Post rotation changes on all THREE floors of the meeting areas.
6. It should not be necessary to miss rotations to see the trade show or the IG.
7. Could the trade show have been open on Wednesday?
8. Food sales right outside of IG were a very good idea.
9. IG needed to be open for longer times.
10. WAY TOO MANY live auction items. Rumor was on the floor that you had to be present to win a gift certificate. We kept a thirteen year old up to the bitter end only to find out at 11 PM that we could have gone to bed for much needed sleep. The SOUND system sucked, to say the least.
11. John Hill is an excellent auctioneer, his voice needed rest. However, between the sound system and the substitute auctioneer’s mumbling I was afraid to bid. I did not know whether the bid was at one hundred or one thousand.
12. Some of the camera work was terrible: cameras above eye level of operator could not be focused, multiple cameras were not used, demonstrator needs a small monitor facing him for showing tool grinds, etc. More volunteers would provide a second person to operate the camera switchbox.
13. Parking passes and costs were very confusing and unevenly applied. Many more handicapped spaces were needed in parking garage.
14. The entire pre-registration process was slow, incomplete, and confusing, no charge to card for months, no registration packet, lost youth registration, etc.
15. Tear down of youth room and handing out of lathes to winners went very smoothly in a hectic situation.
16. Trade show layout was very well done. Tool junkies could easily get their fix.
17. Banquet food was pretty good and service to 2000+ people was amazing.
18. Parking fees and +-18% room taxes are ways of increasing prices without really doing so. We need TRUTH in advertising. Tell us the WHOLE bitter truth up front please. Would I be in jail if I did not have enough loot to get myself out of hock?
This was originally posted to Buddy Riley the president of Louisviile turning club on woodcentral.com. These comments are in the order of thought, not as to whom they apply. I feel that my wife and I earned the right to express some of these by the fact that we both volunteered each for one long and one short session in the youth turning room. This was our first symposium and overall it was wonderful. The hotel had many problems, most have been mentioned many times. They took our partial soap bars and did not replace them, and no towels. They left full overflowing trash cans. Either the AAW or Galt website said there were microwaves in the rooms. BIG LIE. We brought food to cook for medical reasons. This was very inconvenient, $33 for a Wal-Mart microwave fixed that. The hotel employees generally could not answer questions about the Galt, let alone about Louisville.
Many of the problems could have been solved with more volunteers. I think that one hour of volunteer work should be required of all attendees. AAW should charge the fee for the symposium and then add a surcharge of say FIFTY dollars which will be refunded after you work your shift. Make the surcharge expensive enough to encourage us to volunteer.
Now for some other comments and suggestions:
1. Don’t separate the kids from their families when awarding the lathes. I would love to have a picture of my grandson’s face when he won his. I could not take a picture from 300 feet away.
2. Use more signage to direct the crowds to their destination. Signs at 90° to traffic flow would have been much easier to see.
3. Hotel maps were small enough to be confusing.
4. Last minute rotation changes should have been handed out with the registration packet, not put on a board that we did not find for at least a day.
5. Post rotation changes on all THREE floors of the meeting areas.
6. It should not be necessary to miss rotations to see the trade show or the IG.
7. Could the trade show have been open on Wednesday?
8. Food sales right outside of IG were a very good idea.
9. IG needed to be open for longer times.
10. WAY TOO MANY live auction items. Rumor was on the floor that you had to be present to win a gift certificate. We kept a thirteen year old up to the bitter end only to find out at 11 PM that we could have gone to bed for much needed sleep. The SOUND system sucked, to say the least.
11. John Hill is an excellent auctioneer, his voice needed rest. However, between the sound system and the substitute auctioneer’s mumbling I was afraid to bid. I did not know whether the bid was at one hundred or one thousand.
12. Some of the camera work was terrible: cameras above eye level of operator could not be focused, multiple cameras were not used, demonstrator needs a small monitor facing him for showing tool grinds, etc. More volunteers would provide a second person to operate the camera switchbox.
13. Parking passes and costs were very confusing and unevenly applied. Many more handicapped spaces were needed in parking garage.
14. The entire pre-registration process was slow, incomplete, and confusing, no charge to card for months, no registration packet, lost youth registration, etc.
15. Tear down of youth room and handing out of lathes to winners went very smoothly in a hectic situation.
16. Trade show layout was very well done. Tool junkies could easily get their fix.
17. Banquet food was pretty good and service to 2000+ people was amazing.
18. Parking fees and +-18% room taxes are ways of increasing prices without really doing so. We need TRUTH in advertising. Tell us the WHOLE bitter truth up front please. Would I be in jail if I did not have enough loot to get myself out of hock?
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Jeff,Jeff Jilg said:
I like your thoughts about better IG labels and suggest that it be a requirement to make the submissions via the AAW web site so that all of the data for the labels would be available in electronic format. This would relieve staff members and volunteers from a huge amount of effort typing the information. Accept no whiney protests from computer phobic turners about this rule.
Bill[font="][/font]
Suggestions
To All,
I found the difficulties to be minimal and mostly limited to the hotel.
Note, that I had a wonderful time as did my wife. She took in some demo's and enjoyed meeting many people from all over North America.
I will offer some suggestion that I do find need improvement. We all need to keep in mind that most everything would be eliminated if we didn't move the big show around every year. Till that happens we will always have growing pains which repeat themselves each and every year.
Things that bothered me:
1) No morning Continental breakfast that has been provided the last few years. I told many of the people from my chapter about it and we all expected it. Many others did also.
2) Crowded rooms for some of the rotations. I never did get to see J Paul as by the time I finished as a volunteer the rooms were over flowing each time. He was on my must see list. We need more time between demo's for movement, clean up and setup for the next demo.
3) No posting of who was in what room at what time outside each room. This was done in Kansas City last year and needs to be put back into practice.
4) Video equipment is a problem. With the lights low for some of the projectors the camera would not focus. The tripods are terrible. There is no way anyone can use them smoothly. BTW: Darrel worked his butt off trying to fix everything to the best of his ability. Nothing like going to bed with everything working and waking up Thursday to the nightmare he was presented with. In the morning, many rooms had all the wires disconnected by the lathe moving company. I know I am glad I showed up an hour early to get everything running for Binh's demo Thursday morning.
5) Each rotation needs two assistant not one. There is no way I can work the lights, cameras, switch box and help the demonstrator at the same time. I tried and did the best I could, but I fell short of my expectations never mind the audience's. Many times I was behind the screens and not able to see what was being projected. It is impossible to be a video operator and not see the picture. Also the people that are assisting need to understand that getting a chair and watching is not what we were instructed to do. I also think the crowd could be a little nicer to the volunteers.
6) This one might not be popular but I am going to put it out there. The vendors need it explained that the show is in the demo rooms not the vendor floor. If everyone stops paying to go to the demo's due to comments that you get just as much from the vendor area as the demo's then there will not be a symposium. I feel there needs to be a fee to enter the symposium area whether or not you are going to the demo's. All trade shows I have been to have an entrance fee ours shouldn't be any different.
7) The auction is to long even with trying to do all the talking during dinner which I think worked for the most part. John did a great job. I too had a hard time understanding the other fellow. I have no suggestion on how to fix this as we cannot stop people putting there work forward to be auctioned.
I also agree with the comments about the lathe door prizes. Money better spent lowering the fees and/or buying better equipment.
I do want to stress I think the organizers did a outstanding job. It is a huge job to say the least.
Not sure things will be as big next year with the Provo a week or two before and then there is also the Western Round Up in September in Vancouver.
Steve Mushinski
To All,
I found the difficulties to be minimal and mostly limited to the hotel.
Note, that I had a wonderful time as did my wife. She took in some demo's and enjoyed meeting many people from all over North America.
I will offer some suggestion that I do find need improvement. We all need to keep in mind that most everything would be eliminated if we didn't move the big show around every year. Till that happens we will always have growing pains which repeat themselves each and every year.
Things that bothered me:
1) No morning Continental breakfast that has been provided the last few years. I told many of the people from my chapter about it and we all expected it. Many others did also.
2) Crowded rooms for some of the rotations. I never did get to see J Paul as by the time I finished as a volunteer the rooms were over flowing each time. He was on my must see list. We need more time between demo's for movement, clean up and setup for the next demo.
3) No posting of who was in what room at what time outside each room. This was done in Kansas City last year and needs to be put back into practice.
4) Video equipment is a problem. With the lights low for some of the projectors the camera would not focus. The tripods are terrible. There is no way anyone can use them smoothly. BTW: Darrel worked his butt off trying to fix everything to the best of his ability. Nothing like going to bed with everything working and waking up Thursday to the nightmare he was presented with. In the morning, many rooms had all the wires disconnected by the lathe moving company. I know I am glad I showed up an hour early to get everything running for Binh's demo Thursday morning.
5) Each rotation needs two assistant not one. There is no way I can work the lights, cameras, switch box and help the demonstrator at the same time. I tried and did the best I could, but I fell short of my expectations never mind the audience's. Many times I was behind the screens and not able to see what was being projected. It is impossible to be a video operator and not see the picture. Also the people that are assisting need to understand that getting a chair and watching is not what we were instructed to do. I also think the crowd could be a little nicer to the volunteers.
6) This one might not be popular but I am going to put it out there. The vendors need it explained that the show is in the demo rooms not the vendor floor. If everyone stops paying to go to the demo's due to comments that you get just as much from the vendor area as the demo's then there will not be a symposium. I feel there needs to be a fee to enter the symposium area whether or not you are going to the demo's. All trade shows I have been to have an entrance fee ours shouldn't be any different.
7) The auction is to long even with trying to do all the talking during dinner which I think worked for the most part. John did a great job. I too had a hard time understanding the other fellow. I have no suggestion on how to fix this as we cannot stop people putting there work forward to be auctioned.
I also agree with the comments about the lathe door prizes. Money better spent lowering the fees and/or buying better equipment.
I do want to stress I think the organizers did a outstanding job. It is a huge job to say the least.
Not sure things will be as big next year with the Provo a week or two before and then there is also the Western Round Up in September in Vancouver.
Steve Mushinski
AAW@Louisville
Just some observations that may be titled; Lessons Learned. With the AAW coming to Richmond, VA in 2008 I had to keep notes on this past symp. for things we should be plugging into our equation for success in a couple years, and so they could be pushed up the line to those who are in charge;
Hotel staff attitude. Good and bad. Checkin time in lobby = 78 minutes! (Not a great start to the show!) Business center log on to Internet easy but took me 2 days of effort to find that the receipt I expected to see at the end of my session was being held by some sub-contractor who had no idea where the Gault House was. Hostess at Magnolia; too busy to care. But, the cafferteria across the street was half the price and great food. Politness was a hallmark at the desk. Freight elevators worked fine!
Demos; When the camera guys can not see the screen they can't do their job. When they can not control the lighting we can not see the screen. Plain and simple facts. Saw one guy who came out of the audience 2x to fill in and did a very fine job. Sorry, I do not know his name but he deserves a real pat on the back. The demonstrators were fantastic!!! I learned a great deal and enjoyed the repartee with Mike and "the football guy" from England. Oh, ya, Stewart. (sorry, I could not resist.) Could not wait to turn on the PM when I got home to try so many new ideas.
Vendors got a free ride; they could have sponsored coffee at the breaks, or some way of showing their respect for the tons of money being spent.
Auction; too too many pieces and too much emphasis on getting that last dollar on a piece. That wasted tons of time and led to many of us leaving with 40 items still to be sold. Think about the time wasted passing the winners number to the auctioneer! Ouch. How about an electric sign with big numbers the flag wavers could punch in, and someone besides the auctioneer copying down the numbers. Basic elements to auctions.
Food and service about that of an average symposium of many different kinds in my life-experience. Sound; horrible. None worse. Why? Its a convention center. You would think they knew how to make it work.
So, inspite of the things that did not go so well, it was a thrill to be there and to see so many talented people turning to their hearts content. Phil
Just some observations that may be titled; Lessons Learned. With the AAW coming to Richmond, VA in 2008 I had to keep notes on this past symp. for things we should be plugging into our equation for success in a couple years, and so they could be pushed up the line to those who are in charge;
Hotel staff attitude. Good and bad. Checkin time in lobby = 78 minutes! (Not a great start to the show!) Business center log on to Internet easy but took me 2 days of effort to find that the receipt I expected to see at the end of my session was being held by some sub-contractor who had no idea where the Gault House was. Hostess at Magnolia; too busy to care. But, the cafferteria across the street was half the price and great food. Politness was a hallmark at the desk. Freight elevators worked fine!
Demos; When the camera guys can not see the screen they can't do their job. When they can not control the lighting we can not see the screen. Plain and simple facts. Saw one guy who came out of the audience 2x to fill in and did a very fine job. Sorry, I do not know his name but he deserves a real pat on the back. The demonstrators were fantastic!!! I learned a great deal and enjoyed the repartee with Mike and "the football guy" from England. Oh, ya, Stewart. (sorry, I could not resist.) Could not wait to turn on the PM when I got home to try so many new ideas.
Vendors got a free ride; they could have sponsored coffee at the breaks, or some way of showing their respect for the tons of money being spent.
Auction; too too many pieces and too much emphasis on getting that last dollar on a piece. That wasted tons of time and led to many of us leaving with 40 items still to be sold. Think about the time wasted passing the winners number to the auctioneer! Ouch. How about an electric sign with big numbers the flag wavers could punch in, and someone besides the auctioneer copying down the numbers. Basic elements to auctions.
Food and service about that of an average symposium of many different kinds in my life-experience. Sound; horrible. None worse. Why? Its a convention center. You would think they knew how to make it work.
So, inspite of the things that did not go so well, it was a thrill to be there and to see so many talented people turning to their hearts content. Phil
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
(I guess I will represent the vendors)AtSam said:
I don't understand the first part of this comment at all. I personally have no objection to charging everyone for coming in. The bigger issue with that is to the general public, we (the symposium) are a rolling museum/circus. If the idea is to get more people exposed to wood art (and it is, make no mistake about the AAW mission) I don't think most of the "just curious" people would pay to see the instant gallery but those are not the vendors prime customer anyway. Of course, if you didn't have a badge on at all, would anyone even notice and kick you out of a rotation?
BUT, I also don't want to work from 7AM to 7PM so that you wouldn't have to miss any rotations. The vendor area is open after rotations on the first day, closes early on the second so that everyone gets to the banquet, and then early on the last so that we can get on the road. There is also a long lunch so that you can mill around too. (And by the way, there was a coffee shop and sandwich shop right around the hall from where they were selling this stuff). It is not supposed to even be accessible on the setup day to anyone without a vendor badge, yet there were alot of people milling around and sales made.
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I'm sitting in the airport on my way home.
I'll offer two quick comments
AL Picker who said the youth lathe pick up went smoothly - I ended up handling that and I think it was more like a fire-drill. We'll do a lot better on that next year.
A Sam - Continental breakfast. This is included at no cost as part of the package at some sysmposium sites. The AAW was given a price of about $7,000 a day for the continental breakfast ot $21,000 for the symposium. that was based on a 1000 attendees. this would be a cost of $21 added to each single registration. The AAW board voted not to pursue this because of additonal cost.
At future sympsoiums we continue to look for free breakfast.
I enjoy these as it gives a chance to meet with freind I haven't seen for a while.
Happy Turning,
Al
I'll offer two quick comments
AL Picker who said the youth lathe pick up went smoothly - I ended up handling that and I think it was more like a fire-drill. We'll do a lot better on that next year.
A Sam - Continental breakfast. This is included at no cost as part of the package at some sysmposium sites. The AAW was given a price of about $7,000 a day for the continental breakfast ot $21,000 for the symposium. that was based on a 1000 attendees. this would be a cost of $21 added to each single registration. The AAW board voted not to pursue this because of additonal cost.
At future sympsoiums we continue to look for free breakfast.
I enjoy these as it gives a chance to meet with freind I haven't seen for a while.
Happy Turning,
Al
Al,
Thanks for the response about the breakfast. I figured it was money related which we all can understand. You guys did very good job trying to balance everything and the organizers need to be commended.
Steve,
I was suggesting the vendors be discouraged from putting on a show of their own, as the CET group did with chairs and everything else. Things have to be balanced and we all know how generous this group was to those in attendance. Generous also means promotion with the hope of profits. When high profile turners are doing shows, where is the incentive to pay for the demo's. I am not sure there is a solution to the problem I present. Maybe there is no problem with the way it is. This was just something I felt I wanted to bring forward.
I also understand why we move the symposium around and I agree with this practice but with it comes new problems which will repeat themselves due to the movement itself. I enjoy visiting different cities I would other wise never have gone to.
I do know I had a great weekend!
Thanks for the response about the breakfast. I figured it was money related which we all can understand. You guys did very good job trying to balance everything and the organizers need to be commended.
Steve,
I was suggesting the vendors be discouraged from putting on a show of their own, as the CET group did with chairs and everything else. Things have to be balanced and we all know how generous this group was to those in attendance. Generous also means promotion with the hope of profits. When high profile turners are doing shows, where is the incentive to pay for the demo's. I am not sure there is a solution to the problem I present. Maybe there is no problem with the way it is. This was just something I felt I wanted to bring forward.
I also understand why we move the symposium around and I agree with this practice but with it comes new problems which will repeat themselves due to the movement itself. I enjoy visiting different cities I would other wise never have gone to.
I do know I had a great weekend!
I made several comments and suggestions in another thread already but several thoughts in here that have interested me-
Vendor Area- There should be a charge to enter unless a registered conference attendee, just to cut down on the crowd. Several times I waited while non-attendees made small talk to vendors. It's the only conference I have ever been to that the trade floor was open to the public. IG should still be open to the public at least most of the time, maybe only to registered attendees on the first day so everyone has a chance to look around.
Galt House- it was full when I tried to make reservations so I stayed a few blocks away at Comfort Inn for half the price with free breakfast and parking. Seems like I was the lucky one.
Most of the other problems I figure were just growing pains, and didn't really bother me. Several people have commented that they didn't plan to register next time because there is no need to. Now that I think about it no one ever asked to see a badge to enter a rotation or even collect a ticket to eat at the dinner. Not sure what the solution is but at one rotation where I was working video three people right in front had no badge, they even admitted to the person doing the demo that they had not registered and had walked right in. I thought about reporting it to someone but who? Maybe AAW should hire a few security people just to be present in uniform?
Video- I expressed my concerns earlier on this. Deryl and his crew did a good job but as an operator I was embarassed at times when equipment failed. I work with video for a living, and some of that equipment needs a serious upgrade. At least for the big names maybe AAW should consider hiring a pro or at least rent better equipment. Maybe those fuzzy old cameras looked OK on TV's in the past but on those big projected screens they really looked bad. I worked several rotations in the room with Bob Rosand, Andrew Brown, and Mark St. Leger (don't remember the name of the room) and I could zoom in on the smallest detail. But then in other rooms the cameras would not focus when zoomed in. Mike Mahoney had a packed house every session and the main camera in there would not focus except at it's widest setting. I thought I was just being picky due to my background in video so I notice things like that, but I have seen and heard consistant complaints about the video in some rotations. I don't mention this just to complain, I am willing to do anything I can to help improve the video next year. Just like Steve has suggested ways to improve the computers I feel the same way about the video.
Overall I would still give the experience two thumbs up, but always has room to improve I guess.
Vendor Area- There should be a charge to enter unless a registered conference attendee, just to cut down on the crowd. Several times I waited while non-attendees made small talk to vendors. It's the only conference I have ever been to that the trade floor was open to the public. IG should still be open to the public at least most of the time, maybe only to registered attendees on the first day so everyone has a chance to look around.
Galt House- it was full when I tried to make reservations so I stayed a few blocks away at Comfort Inn for half the price with free breakfast and parking. Seems like I was the lucky one.
Most of the other problems I figure were just growing pains, and didn't really bother me. Several people have commented that they didn't plan to register next time because there is no need to. Now that I think about it no one ever asked to see a badge to enter a rotation or even collect a ticket to eat at the dinner. Not sure what the solution is but at one rotation where I was working video three people right in front had no badge, they even admitted to the person doing the demo that they had not registered and had walked right in. I thought about reporting it to someone but who? Maybe AAW should hire a few security people just to be present in uniform?
Video- I expressed my concerns earlier on this. Deryl and his crew did a good job but as an operator I was embarassed at times when equipment failed. I work with video for a living, and some of that equipment needs a serious upgrade. At least for the big names maybe AAW should consider hiring a pro or at least rent better equipment. Maybe those fuzzy old cameras looked OK on TV's in the past but on those big projected screens they really looked bad. I worked several rotations in the room with Bob Rosand, Andrew Brown, and Mark St. Leger (don't remember the name of the room) and I could zoom in on the smallest detail. But then in other rooms the cameras would not focus when zoomed in. Mike Mahoney had a packed house every session and the main camera in there would not focus except at it's widest setting. I thought I was just being picky due to my background in video so I notice things like that, but I have seen and heard consistant complaints about the video in some rotations. I don't mention this just to complain, I am willing to do anything I can to help improve the video next year. Just like Steve has suggested ways to improve the computers I feel the same way about the video.
Overall I would still give the experience two thumbs up, but always has room to improve I guess.
bad video
Jeff,
It seems you did not notice, the video quality was extremely poor. I demo assisted in three demos. If there was a large spinning blank distracting the cheapo video camera, then the autofocus could not handle a close up shot of the the tool making the cut. This happened to me with Mike Mahoney. At our club meetings, my usual reaction is to go from close up to wide then zoom back in slowly and things work fine with our 5 year old Sony video camera.
The AAW cheapo video cameras combined with the low resolution of the projector provided an inferior image. Those cameras were unable to handle low light situations. The small non-zoom "security" cameras were also next to worthless, and by Saturday many of the rooms had nonfunctioning little white boxes that were lying lifeless on the floor.
The tripods are another story. Again, el cheapo! In order to pan with the action, I unscrewed the lock down so that the camera could be rotatated freely, but the movement was far from fluid, it was more like a jerking motion.
I say the AAW needs to ditch the projector idea, go back to regular TV's and buy high quality video cameras that can handle less than optimal lighting situations.
Jeff Jilg said:
Jeff,
It seems you did not notice, the video quality was extremely poor. I demo assisted in three demos. If there was a large spinning blank distracting the cheapo video camera, then the autofocus could not handle a close up shot of the the tool making the cut. This happened to me with Mike Mahoney. At our club meetings, my usual reaction is to go from close up to wide then zoom back in slowly and things work fine with our 5 year old Sony video camera.
The AAW cheapo video cameras combined with the low resolution of the projector provided an inferior image. Those cameras were unable to handle low light situations. The small non-zoom "security" cameras were also next to worthless, and by Saturday many of the rooms had nonfunctioning little white boxes that were lying lifeless on the floor.
The tripods are another story. Again, el cheapo! In order to pan with the action, I unscrewed the lock down so that the camera could be rotatated freely, but the movement was far from fluid, it was more like a jerking motion.
I say the AAW needs to ditch the projector idea, go back to regular TV's and buy high quality video cameras that can handle less than optimal lighting situations.
Last edited:
I am adding my 2 cents worth. Almost everyproblem that I had was a function of the hotel. The Galt House provided me with the worst hotel expierence I have ever had. They did comp me one night but that did not make up for all of the problems. I enjoyed the symposium immensely. The demos I stood through were worth the effort. Most of the camera men did a good job some better than others, and yes one or two were useless. I would like to see the trade show and the gallery have longer hours. Putting on the symposium takes a trendous effort and the board should have every ones thanks for their efforts. Like all things, there is room for improvement. I am sure that the board will meet and reflect on the show and discuss the strong points and the weak points, and produce a better event next year. So to all those who worked hard to make the 2006 symposium a great one, Thank You.
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
CET will only get bigger in the next (and subsequent) symposiums. What they did with their own demonstrators is not out of the ordinary, it is just they were the most visible this year maybe because of the amount of floor space they had. As far as trade shows go and getting to the target audience, the AAW symposium is relatively inexpensive.AtSam said:
In the past, Mike Mahoney and Stuart would demo in the Crafts supply booth and others in the lathe vendor booths.
J
Jim Rutten
Guest
Volunteer video
I agree with most of what people are saying especially about the need for two volunteers per room. I was a volunteer for the video system at Kansas City and let me tell you, it's no picnic. I had people telling me to move the camera closer, move the camera farther away, take it off autofocus, put it on autofocus. These were not constructive critcism but more like growls. By the time Sunday rolled around 3 of the 4 presentations I went to didn't have video volunteer's. My guess is they just got fed up and didn't show up for it. I ran the camera for those sessions and can imagine a lot more of them were without video operators. I guess my point is from the other side of the coin, it would have been nice to receive a smile and a "good job" from the criticizers but that didn't happen. I will think long and hard about volunteering again. I paid full price to get in too and I even in my role as volunteer I expect to be treated with common curtosy.
I agree with most of what people are saying especially about the need for two volunteers per room. I was a volunteer for the video system at Kansas City and let me tell you, it's no picnic. I had people telling me to move the camera closer, move the camera farther away, take it off autofocus, put it on autofocus. These were not constructive critcism but more like growls. By the time Sunday rolled around 3 of the 4 presentations I went to didn't have video volunteer's. My guess is they just got fed up and didn't show up for it. I ran the camera for those sessions and can imagine a lot more of them were without video operators. I guess my point is from the other side of the coin, it would have been nice to receive a smile and a "good job" from the criticizers but that didn't happen. I will think long and hard about volunteering again. I paid full price to get in too and I even in my role as volunteer I expect to be treated with common curtosy.
woodwish said:
Agreed, the idea that people get in for free, to something others have to pay for, I find, astounding and alarming.
Say WHAT? That's an open invitation to people ghosting the event. Ya, most people will not do that, but enough will to cause some real problems. After all, why spend $$ to get in, when you can get in for free and spend those same $$ on toys.
Every event I have ever helped run, we required everyone pay to get in, for any reason, period. One facility we use for camping events has some back roads that people come in/out of. My wife will send hours next month, making certain only people with parking passes (ie they paid) come in those back roads, cause we caught people coming straight in off the hiway in the past.
TTFN
Ralph
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
I have to say that the expensive computer industry seminars I go to (at about $1000 or so) have someone checking badges everywhere. No badge, no entry. But they also usually sequester the class rooms from other areas like the vendor area.
I like the idea of the gallery and the vendor area open for free. What you are truly paying for is the demos. If you don't want to see demos, then don't pay. If you want to see demos, pay.
As far as the camera people, and just getting volunteers in general, I don't think it's any different then at your own clubs. How hard is it to get people to volunteer or even run for office. It is a small minority that want to step up and make it more enjoyable for others.
I like the idea of the gallery and the vendor area open for free. What you are truly paying for is the demos. If you don't want to see demos, then don't pay. If you want to see demos, pay.
As far as the camera people, and just getting volunteers in general, I don't think it's any different then at your own clubs. How hard is it to get people to volunteer or even run for office. It is a small minority that want to step up and make it more enjoyable for others.
M
mkart
Guest
Lucky?
Well I must be easy going or lucky. I had a great time. I waited to long to book the hotel directly with Galt so I booked it through expedia and saved a few bucks. I waited in line an hour to check in but I came at 3:30, same time as everyone else. Had I checked into the hotel at 7:00pm there was no line. Actually my wife waited in line, I assembled our collaborative project. Our suite was great, I saw all seven demos I was very interested in and got reservations for 32 in the revolving restaurant with only one day advance notice. Reagrdless of bad camera shots and the echo in the banquet I had a great time. I enjoyed the fact that we had such high numbers. We are growing! It forced me to meet new friends and make quicker decisions in the trade show, this made my wife happy. I had a good time because I went to Louisville with only one requirement, have fun. I did. I think I'm probably just easy going. I even had fun standing outside the doors before the banquet sharing stories with members from my club. See everyone in Portland and I hope the numbers soar to a new limit.
mkart
Well I must be easy going or lucky. I had a great time. I waited to long to book the hotel directly with Galt so I booked it through expedia and saved a few bucks. I waited in line an hour to check in but I came at 3:30, same time as everyone else. Had I checked into the hotel at 7:00pm there was no line. Actually my wife waited in line, I assembled our collaborative project. Our suite was great, I saw all seven demos I was very interested in and got reservations for 32 in the revolving restaurant with only one day advance notice. Reagrdless of bad camera shots and the echo in the banquet I had a great time. I enjoyed the fact that we had such high numbers. We are growing! It forced me to meet new friends and make quicker decisions in the trade show, this made my wife happy. I had a good time because I went to Louisville with only one requirement, have fun. I did. I think I'm probably just easy going. I even had fun standing outside the doors before the banquet sharing stories with members from my club. See everyone in Portland and I hope the numbers soar to a new limit.
mkart
I've been following this discussion and have found it quite interesting. Like Mkart I had a great time. Any frustrations I had were short lived and directed primarily at the Galt House housekeeping. I think maybe I had an advantage in that this was my first symposium, inspite of being a turner for several years. I didn't have any previous symposium experience of smaller crowds or other venues. The camera work in only one of the eight rotations I attended drove me nuts. But, that was because the camera operator should have ignored most of the suggestions from the audience to move it here, move it there, zoom in, zoom out. He was doing just fine up to the time he started paying attention to that.
Also, in another thread Mark Kauder and John Lucas gave me a couple of pointers about planning time for the Instant Gallery, Vendor area, and getting to some of the rotations early. I couldn't get into either of Cindy Drozda's finial box rotations, but first time was due to my losing track of time in the Instant Gallery , and second time because Steve Worcester was answering some of my questions in the vendor area about the difference between power sanding and one of those little hand held rotating sanding devices even though I wasn't buying anything from him. And I'm kind of glad I missed them. The instant gallery was inspiring. More than inspiring. Steve gave me good information and options to consider. One turner to another. And I discovered two other demonstrators I absolutely enjoyed that I probably would never have found otherwise.
So, it may have been my first, but certainly not my last. The organizers, the volunteers, any who had a part in putting this together did a job good enough to convince me this needs to be, and will be, one of my annual events.
Bob Way
Also, in another thread Mark Kauder and John Lucas gave me a couple of pointers about planning time for the Instant Gallery, Vendor area, and getting to some of the rotations early. I couldn't get into either of Cindy Drozda's finial box rotations, but first time was due to my losing track of time in the Instant Gallery , and second time because Steve Worcester was answering some of my questions in the vendor area about the difference between power sanding and one of those little hand held rotating sanding devices even though I wasn't buying anything from him. And I'm kind of glad I missed them. The instant gallery was inspiring. More than inspiring. Steve gave me good information and options to consider. One turner to another. And I discovered two other demonstrators I absolutely enjoyed that I probably would never have found otherwise.
So, it may have been my first, but certainly not my last. The organizers, the volunteers, any who had a part in putting this together did a job good enough to convince me this needs to be, and will be, one of my annual events.
Bob Way
For AAW Shows in the future...
I preface this with all respect to AAW and the posters on this Forum. I've enjoyed reading this thread only because before the event I read the solicitation for volunteer camera operators. I was hoping this would not be a recipe for problems. May I recommend this for condsideration at future Symposium sites.
1. I don't recommend the AAW purchase any video equipment. With rapidly changing technology, renting the current market equipment makes more sense. There would be more choices appropriate to budget. Plus there wouldn't be any shipping, or maintenance cost or issues. No wear and tear on using the same gear over.
2. Comparison shop local vendors in that years city, who's specialty is indoor-outdoor concerts, or large venue trade shows. They should be able to setup and test everything. My experience is that there are different levels of production cost to choose from.
3. Should the camera operators be turners? In some cases, the vendor chosen will have recommendations for camera operators from local high school, or Jr. College production classes. A local Church that does video production can also be a source. They can know the camera, and be told what to shoot.
4. Most of the above goes for sound reinforcement also. I does take some expertice.
Living on the West Coast, with limited funds, a National Symposium will not likely be in my future. I just know a little about production and remotes and would love to help. I just wish I could go. Thanks.
I preface this with all respect to AAW and the posters on this Forum. I've enjoyed reading this thread only because before the event I read the solicitation for volunteer camera operators. I was hoping this would not be a recipe for problems. May I recommend this for condsideration at future Symposium sites.
1. I don't recommend the AAW purchase any video equipment. With rapidly changing technology, renting the current market equipment makes more sense. There would be more choices appropriate to budget. Plus there wouldn't be any shipping, or maintenance cost or issues. No wear and tear on using the same gear over.
2. Comparison shop local vendors in that years city, who's specialty is indoor-outdoor concerts, or large venue trade shows. They should be able to setup and test everything. My experience is that there are different levels of production cost to choose from.
3. Should the camera operators be turners? In some cases, the vendor chosen will have recommendations for camera operators from local high school, or Jr. College production classes. A local Church that does video production can also be a source. They can know the camera, and be told what to shoot.
4. Most of the above goes for sound reinforcement also. I does take some expertice.
Living on the West Coast, with limited funds, a National Symposium will not likely be in my future. I just know a little about production and remotes and would love to help. I just wish I could go. Thanks.
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