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AAW symposium attendance

The number I heard at the symposium was around 1100.
AAW expects around 1800 at the next one.
At least that is what I heard. I have no hard, verified numbers.
Hugh
 
Forecasting attendance is tough the economy has a lot to do with it.
I was expecting close to 2000 for the 2008 symposium in Richmond.
The recession held attendance to under 1700

Phoenix attendance was about what we expected.
Generally attendance in the mountain time zone Is less fewer folks can drive and relatively few AAW members live in the Mountain time zone

I have feeling an attendance record will be set in Pittsburgh
It is close to a lot of people who may have felt Tampa and Phoenix were too far.

3-5 drive fromBaltimore Washington northern VA
7 hr drive from Chicago
7-8 hour drive from Raleigh, NC
6 hr drive from Louisville , KY
5 hour drive from Toronto, ON
7 hour drive from Albany, NY

Start planning now!
Al
 
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AAW Attendance Numbers

Which leads me to wonder why there weren't more people there? We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 15000 members. So that means only 7.6% of the membership attended. Ten percent would be 1500 and 15% would be 2250. Now that sounds more like it. And if we, the organization, could count on 2250 each year (or more), perhaps the Symposium Committee could wrangle a better rate on hotel rooms, lower the registration a bit, and still make money. I know when I was Treasurer (way back when) the symposium was the major source of revenue. Don't know if that is still the case or if membership dues is now the major source of funds. Whichever it is, I still think the sympsoium should draw a MINIMUM 2250 or 2500 each and every year.

So after a bit of thought, I came up with a few reasons people might have for not attending:

1. Phoenix in June?!?! Are you out of your mind?

2. Father's day weekend

3. Cost of travel

4. Cost of lodging

5. Cost of registration

6. Location too far away

I am sure there are many other reasons, but I think those are the top 6.

So what was YOUR reason for not attending?
 
Utah had Dale Nish celebration symposium in May......for regional symposium pretty good attendance....the banquet I sat with people from California, Vermont, Utah, Washington, and I believe montana........it had an allstar list of demostrators with nice facilities.......but would have been hard pressed to accomdate 1150.........
 
I think the expense keeps a lot of people away. Having a Sheraton as the host hotel, well, that is not beyond what I can afford, but I can be just as comfortable in places that cost a lot less. When I went to the one in Minneapolis/St. Paul, I missed out on the main sponsor hotel, and got one that had shuttle service for way cheaper. Worked very well for me. I think part of the problem is the convention centers themselves. They cater to those who seem to have more dollars than they do sense, and they are looking more for big business conventions rather than our smaller attendance levels. My other pet peeve against convention centers is the food they serve. Lousy even at half the cost, which would put them some where around normal costs for normal food vendors. I have been putting a lot of effort into eating better, more whole foods, and more healthy combinations. I would give any convention center I have ever eaten in a score of about 2 on the 10 point scale for over all food quality and cost. I really wish we could find some site that is more geared for the beer and pretzel crowd than for the champagne and caviar crowd. For sure the heat could have been a factor as well.

robo hippy
 
Al, I do believe your prediction of Pittsburgh breaking records might be right. It's a great centralized location and there's not been one in that part of the country (not sure if forever or not) and people can drive in from every direction. I've got my booth space reserved!

Bowlman, there are a lot of reasons why turners don't attend any of the shows. I have booths at most of the regional shows and get the opinions of a lot (a LOT) of turners (whether I want them or not!🙂) and you've covered most of them except for the unique situations.

Over the years I have asked every question here and this is what I've learned:
An area with cheaper rooms, less expensive but most times better food, easy driving/flying access and nice parking usually don't have the ability to handle 1,000+ attendees. Not counting SWAT in Waco, TX.

The AAW does a good job. My feeling has always been: we are woodworkers, our mates understand, share and encourage our passion and enjoyment. We don't need any tourist attractions (= more $$), the thrill of a big city (= more $$) fine cuisine dining (= more $$). The AAW has so many exhibits and activities, no one has time to tour the area, sure a few wives might shop but a very small percent. The dining?..... we get 8? 14? or more together and just want food, drink and laughs. We can do that with pizza and a beer (well I can at least!).

Phoenix in June, Waco, TX in August.....it's inside and air conditioned, weather isn't that important. Yes, you have to walk to eat or your room but that's life.

No matter where the symposium is, some of us won't like it. As a vendor, the AAW is 3-4 times more expensive just for the booth. All those activities I mentioned?...takes the customers away from the vendors. BUT.......

It's the most thrilling show and it's the only one where you can get to see and talk to anyone that is anyone in the turning world. Can't beat it.

Ruth Niles
 
Just my two cents. I have never been to the national convention, but I go to SWAT almost every year. It has been steadily growing and I think that some of the reasons are the very affordable cost, conventions centers in smaller cities are generally more affordable. The catering service has been serving outstanding food and some people go back for seconds ... and maybe even thirds. SWAT usually has a large number of vendors although I am sure that it isn't as many as at the AAW symposium -- several are local vendors. SWAT also has also had many nationally recognized demonstrators. I think that the bottom line is that the total cost is very affordable. Registration cost is low and because it is a regional symposium travel cost is low and lodging is less expensive than in large cities.
 
bowlman said:
So what was YOUR reason for not attending?
Click to expand...

Hospital stay ? 🙁
Had all plans on going, hotel res. , airlines ticket, sypmosium res. ..........
4 days before, I was notified by dr. that I screwed up back worse than normal and needed "adjustment"
so instead of looking at pretty woods and vessels, and downing beers with fellow turners,
I was looking at pretty nurses getting sponge baths 😀

Will take it easy minimum a week before the next one, will not miss it again!

Ruth, save me a spot at the table for that beer and pizza!! 😎 😉
 
I wanted to go and seriously considered it because my parents and sister are in Phoenix. It would have been perfect except for my work and the kids school. At work there is a lot of activity around getting things done before everyone disappears on summer vacations. The kids are still in school with projects due, concerts, events etc. Just not a good time for me.
 
robo hippy said:
I think the expense keeps a lot of people away. Having a Sheraton as the host hotel, well, that is not beyond what I can afford, but I can be just as comfortable in places that cost a lot less. When I went to the one in Minneapolis/St. Paul, I missed out on the main sponsor hotel, and got one that had shuttle service for way cheaper. Worked very well for me. I think part of the problem is the convention centers themselves. They cater to those who seem to have more dollars than they do sense, and they are looking more for big business conventions rather than our smaller attendance levels. My other pet peeve against convention centers is the food they serve. Lousy even at half the cost, which would put them some where around normal costs for normal food vendors. I have been putting a lot of effort into eating better, more whole foods, and more healthy combinations. I would give any convention center I have ever eaten in a score of about 2 on the 10 point scale for over all food quality and cost. I really wish we could find some site that is more geared for the beer and pretzel crowd than for the champagne and caviar crowd. For sure the heat could have been a factor as well. robo hippy
Click to expand...

The AAW has to be cautious in promoting less expensive places to stay because there is an expensive penalty if less than 80%(approximate number) of the room nights are not booked. Symposiums are negotiated as a whole package. Each city is different. Sometimes the convention center is free if enough rooms are pledged. You may remember the AAW was to be in Atlanta in 2013. That contract pledged too many rooms and AAW could have lost a couple hundred thousand dollars and be bankrupt today. Thankfully AAW was able to get out of the contract and ended up in TampA where they turned a profit.

But 2-4 folks car pooling and sharing rooms at the motel 6. Can get away quite cheap.
I have several friends who have been going to the AAW symposium for years and never stay at the convention center hotel.
I also have Friends who always try to stay at the main hotel so they can network.

Al
 
Gotta be less expensive places to go. Our local Ham Radio club holds an annual hamfest at the local fairgrounds. We routinely have several thousand attendees. Of course admission is probably $12-15! People come from several states, lodging is up to them. The fairgrounds does serve food at fairly reasonable price!

The Hara arena in Dayton, Oh. host the Dayton Hamvention with still low admission, and pulls 10's of thousands from all over the world!

For me to spend $1200-1500 to attend a symposium that doesn't interest my family... just isn't going to happen, even AAW dues seem rather high to me! For that kind of money, I'd rather by some tools!

Just my $0.02 worth... maybe not even that much!
 
Does anyone have a feel for what the ratio is from travelers versus local attendees. Are the travelers 75% or 25% of the attendees or is this even known? Lets call travelers anyone who comes more than 200 miles away which I think is generous since someone 100 miles away probably would get a hotel.
 
dbonertz said:
Does anyone have a feel for what the ratio is from travelers versus local attendees. Are the travelers 75% or 25% of the attendees or is this even known? Lets call travelers anyone who comes more than 200 miles away which I think is generous since someone 100 miles away probably would get a hotel.
Click to expand...


We know where our members live and we know which members attend.
I haven't begun work on Phoenix yet.

A map of Tampa attendees and 50, 300, 600, and 1200 mile circles
Percent within those interval are shown below. For the past four.

...............2013_____2012______2011_____2010
...............tampa____San Jose___St Paul___Hartford
<50______ 7% ____ 17% ______9%______ 6%
50-300____22%_____18% _____14%______44%
300-600___18%_____ 15%_____19%______17%
600-1200__35%_____16%_____28% _______16%
>1200____17%_____34%_____29% _______18%
 

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the parking for convention center in tampa was reasonable, how will it be in pittsburg???? cost and avaliabity
 
Ruth Niles said:
Al, I do believe your prediction of Pittsburgh breaking records might be right. It's a great centralized location and there's not been one in that part of the country (not sure if forever or not) and people can drive in from every direction. I've got my booth space reserved!

Bowlman, there are a lot of reasons why turners don't attend any of the shows. I have booths at most of the regional shows and get the opinions of a lot (a LOT) of turners (whether I want them or not!🙂) and you've covered most of them except for the unique situations.

Over the years I have asked every question here and this is what I've learned:
An area with cheaper rooms, less expensive but most times better food, easy driving/flying access and nice parking usually don't have the ability to handle 1,000+ attendees. Not counting SWAT in Waco, TX.

The AAW does a good job. My feeling has always been: we are woodworkers, our mates understand, share and encourage our passion and enjoyment. We don't need any tourist attractions (= more $$), the thrill of a big city (= more $$) fine cuisine dining (= more $$). The AAW has so many exhibits and activities, no one has time to tour the area, sure a few wives might shop but a very small percent. The dining?..... we get 8? 14? or more together and just want food, drink and laughs. We can do that with pizza and a beer (well I can at least!).

Phoenix in June, Waco, TX in August.....it's inside and air conditioned, weather isn't that important. Yes, you have to walk to eat or your room but that's life.

No matter where the symposium is, some of us won't like it. As a vendor, the AAW is 3-4 times more expensive just for the booth. All those activities I mentioned?...takes the customers away from the vendors. BUT.......

It's the most thrilling show and it's the only one where you can get to see and talk to anyone that is anyone in the turning world. Can't beat it.

Ruth Niles
Click to expand...

I hope it is a tongue in cheek expression when you say Pittsburgh is a "centralized" location, Ruth. Google Maps says it would take close to 20 h for me to drive there (16 for Phoenix). (They must be very aggressive drivers doing the estimation these days. I used to beat their estimates driving at/below speed limits. Now I can't make it even if I go over the speed limits.)

I feel it is a conviction when you want to participate in these conventions, for those of us who are not vendors. One can always come up with a number of reasons not to go, but many can be overcome if you REALLY want to go. Take the cost of hotel, I never stay at the headquarters hotel. (Sorry to organizers who have to guarantee the number of rooms, but it is pure economics. Are you kidding me after I pay $129/night + taxes I still have to pay another $25/day to park my car and additional whatever for Internet access?) I can usually find a half-way decent discount motel and stay for the duration of the symposium for the cost of one night at the headquarters hotel. Parking was $12/day ($8/day at Tampa) with free Internet access. (Phil, please don't blacklist me. I am just trying to encourage folks to go.)

I am a frugal guy but woodturning is my obsession and when I am determined to go, I can make it happen. I am sure many folks out there can come up with solutions to overcome the obstacles if they are convicted. Something else I do is to find excuses to go to the AAW symposium instead of excuses not to go. I wanted to see my daughter in Atlanta whom I had not seen in almost two years. So I went to Tampa last year. I hope I will be in Pittsburgh next year because I got relatives in NJ that I can visit.

Ruth, I missed you in Phoenix. I had actually hoped to buy another Joyner's jig from you while there. Hope to see you in Waco (yes, in August).
 
It was 2 things for me. The travel and the expense. Flying anymore is just a pain the butt. Driving would be 2 very long days, maybe even 3 so that was out because it adds to the expense. Even going to a symposium that is close gets awfully expensive for me. I went to Louisville on my own dollar and Florida and it took awhile to save up for those trips. Anything further away from me is a little to high to justify.
AAW dues. Cheap for what you get. The Journal and access to all of the back issues is easily worth the money.
 
bowlman said:
Which leads me to wonder why there weren't more people there? We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 15000 members. So that means only 7.6% of the membership attended. Ten percent would be 1500 and 15% would be 2250. Now that sounds more like it. And if we, the organization, could count on 2250 each year (or more), perhaps the Symposium Committee could wrangle a better rate on hotel rooms, lower the registration a bit, and still make money. I know when I was Treasurer (way back when) the symposium was the major source of revenue. Don't know if that is still the case or if membership dues is now the major source of funds. Whichever it is, I still think the sympsoium should draw a MINIMUM 2250 or 2500 each and every year.

So after a bit of thought, I came up with a few reasons people might have for not attending:

1. Phoenix in June?!?! Are you out of your mind?

2. Father's day weekend

3. Cost of travel

4. Cost of lodging

5. Cost of registration

6. Location too far away

I am sure there are many other reasons, but I think those are the top 6.

So what was YOUR reason for not attending?
Click to expand...

If I am not mistaken, I believe the 1150 is the total number of registrants, including the spouses. So, the actual percentage is lower than what you show here.

As stated in my previous post, you can make excuses not to go, but why not come up with excuses for going as though you needed any in addition to just having a good time with a bunch of the nicest folks sharing a common interest from all over the world?
 
I have a bunch of travel scheduled this half of the year.
I went to the Utah Symposium and had a real nice time.
The 'host hotels' are not near the facility but reasonably priced (89-99 per night, free parking wi-fi and some have breakfast included )
It starts on Thursday and ends Saturday with Sunday (for me ) as a travel day.

My wife could not make it to Phoenix, I wanted to see the Grand Canyon with her. That trip will have to wait.
Then I had a business trip that popped up for last week.
I was happy to be able to take advantage of that without forfeiting my symposium fees and plane ticket.
Then there is Phoenix AZ in June. Air conditioning or not, evil hot.

I will attend the Pittsburgh symposium. Very drivable. The lack of plane ticket expense makes it for me.

Atlanta is 2 years away. Downtown Atlanta.........I have time to make up my mind.
 
I think this discussion comes up just about every year.

The "penalty" that Al mentioned is often called a "performance clause". Hotels with Convention facilities love them. Businesses don't care because they just write the costs off. Clubs tend to hate them, for the same reason.

A club some friends were active in signed that type of contract every year, losing money every year, hoping that the following year they could make up for the previous years losses. They couldn't and went under.

Another club I'm involved with has a rule. "No Performance Clause, EVER". We bite the bullet and pay for the facility out of the budget and -not- rely on members staying at the hotel to defray the costs. One of our advantages is that our "biggest" thing is the 2nd weekend of January, a real dead time for most facilities and they are really willing to work with us as a result.

While having the AAW in the summer does cause some issues, I know a couple "pros" that can't attend as they are too busy with summer shows and wish the AAW Symposium was during their "dead" season in late winter/early spring.
But honestly, June is probably a good time for the AAW.

Someone here posted about their local Ham club having their "things" at Fairgrounds, well, the local Ham clubs here do that, as does some turning clubs (next years Oregon Symposium is at a Fairgrounds.) But for scale, where is the ARRL national convention at? Always Convention centers. The Dayton Hamvention is at a major "multi-purpose" arena.
 
Hmmmm . . . .

Let's see ... I've been an ARRL member for about 50 years and never been to a Hamvention. I've been an AAW member for 10 years and never been to the national symposium. Is there a trend or just coincidence?
 
Bill Boehme said:
Let's see ... I've been an ARRL member for about 50 years and never been to a Hamvention. I've been an AAW member for 10 years and never been to the national symposium. Is there a trend or just coincidence?
Click to expand...

If you like SWAT, you would likely love the AAW.

Generally there are 2-300 that attend just about every year people who enjoy connecting with woodturners ( these folks are little less interested in attending sessions than meeting up with friends)
4-500 attend their first symposium
50-100 from Europe,Asia, Austrailia, Africa
3-500 who attend when it is on their end of the country.

I know one guy who goes to the AAW when it is in the west and goes to UTAH when the AAW is in the east.

Everyone has different situations, and levels.
First you have to be pretty enthusiastic about woodturning and getting better at it ( this eliminates about 40-70% of an average club membership )
Then you have to have the financial ability ( eliminates about 25% of the AAW members ) the door is still open to them when they can drive and share rooms.
Physical ability, and family situation that allows travel
Schedule that allows it ( we have some members who don't control their schedules )
 
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When I bought my lifetime membership to ARRL, it cost was less than a weekend at an AAW symposium!

I guess the point is this thing is priced more like a business convention than a hobbiest activity! If your goal is only the few professional turners, that's ok. If you want to attract the hobbiest, you will mostly miss the boat! We can't write it off our taxes.

I enjoy turning, it has been my primary focus in wood working lately, I am improving, and will continue to. But even AAW membership is kind of high! Forget high priced symposiums!

Again, just my $0.02, but if attendance isn't what you like, might want to consider the cost structure🙂
 
Duane Meadows said:
When I bought my lifetime membership to ARRL, it cost was less than a weekend at an AAW symposium! I guess the point is this thing is priced more like a business convention than a hobbiest activity! If your goal is only the few professional turners, that's ok. If you want to attract the hobbiest, you will mostly miss the boat! We can't write it off our taxes. I enjoy turning, it has been my primary focus in wood working lately, I am improving, and will continue to. But even AAW membership is kind of high! Forget high priced symposiums! Again, just my $0.02, but if attendance isn't what you like, might want to consider the cost structure🙂
Click to expand...

Attendance was right about in target.
Part of the goal in choosing a site is to move the symposium around the country so that is close to members every 5 years.
Basically going to the mountain time zone is a service to our mountain time zone members
We know attendance will be smaller and vendors may not make the trip.

Cost is always an issue both for dues and the symposium.
The Symposium is priced so that a base attendance and trade show rent will pay for it.

The AAW budget is pretty simple
1/3 income - symposium
2/3 income - dues
1/3 expense - symposium
1/3 expense - AAW Journal
1/3 expense headquarters ( small staff, web site publications, videos......)

In the early days of the symposium it was held at college campuses.
Renting dorm rooms for members to stay. We out grew that possibility.
 
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AAW Attendance Numbers

Ruth Niles said:
Al, I do believe your prediction of Pittsburgh breaking records might be right. It's a great centralized location and there's not been one in that part of the country (not sure if forever or not) and people can drive in from every direction. I've got my booth space reserved!

Bowlman, there are a lot of reasons why turners don't attend any of the shows. I have booths at most of the regional shows and get the opinions of a lot (a LOT) of turners (whether I want them or not!🙂) and you've covered most of them except for the unique situations.

Over the years I have asked every question here and this is what I've learned:
An area with cheaper rooms, less expensive but most times better food, easy driving/flying access and nice parking usually don't have the ability to handle 1,000+ attendees. Not counting SWAT in Waco, TX.

The AAW does a good job. My feeling has always been: we are woodworkers, our mates understand, share and encourage our passion and enjoyment. We don't need any tourist attractions (= more $$), the thrill of a big city (= more $$) fine cuisine dining (= more $$). The AAW has so many exhibits and activities, no one has time to tour the area, sure a few wives might shop but a very small percent. The dining?..... we get 8? 14? or more together and just want food, drink and laughs. We can do that with pizza and a beer (well I can at least!).

Phoenix in June, Waco, TX in August.....it's inside and air conditioned, weather isn't that important. Yes, you have to walk to eat or your room but that's life.

No matter where the symposium is, some of us won't like it. As a vendor, the AAW is 3-4 times more expensive just for the booth. All those activities I mentioned?...takes the customers away from the vendors. BUT.......

It's the most thrilling show and it's the only one where you can get to see and talk to anyone that is anyone in the turning world. Can't beat it.

Ruth Niles
Click to expand...

Ruth, I agree with evertying you have said. Especially about the heat (a non-issue with me but might be for others and the food. I also agree that the AAW is doing a great job, but there is always room for improvement. My main intent was/is to make attending a symposium more attratctive for more people. The old saying of "the more the merrier" certainly applies here, at least for me. After attending all but 5 symposiums, the comraderie and fellowship is just as important to me as attending the demos ... though I always learn something new with every one I sit in on. Also, the panel discussions are just so darn interesting.
 
hockenbery said:
If you like SWAT, you would likely love the AAW....
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great demographic information on who goes to the AAW symposium and why they go. I have found that in the last couple years that I have skipped a few of the demonstrations in order to do other things like visit with some of the other attendees, talk with the vendors (and occasionally buy something), peruse the instant gallery, etc. I really wanted to go to the symposium in Albuquerque, but a niece chose that same weekend to get married. I thought about going to Phoenix, but other things put an end to that idea.

I think that I meet the enthusiasm criterion and the expense of attending wouldn't be too painful for a symposium somewhere in this part of the country.
Duane Meadows said:
When I bought my lifetime membership to ARRL, it cost was less than a weekend at an AAW symposium!...
Click to expand...

I became a life member of the ARRL in about 1974, but you can't directly compare dollars from forty years ago to today's dollars. Over my career, my salary multiplied by about a factor of ten, but what I could afford to buy always seemed to remain about the same.
 
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Phoenix was my first since Portland. And I taught in Utah in 08. It was no money plain and simple. Our daughters education is more important than me smoozing with fellow turners and upping my beer consumption. As a chapter leader I got admission paid for. It was a good meeting. If I cant get into the main hotel I wont go. By myself I try to get a roomate. But since my wife was also a full time turner the two of us really enjoyed the event. My interaction with fellow turners as witnessed in Phoenix is the cats meow of going. Pricy from Hawaii? You bet. When you got the bucks to do it, the national just cant be beat. But that said my favorite that I have been to is Utah. I also went to the events hosted at universities. I think Ft. Collins in 94 may have been the last. There were lots of folks there. So each of us comes up with what works for us. All my bills have not come in from the Phoenix trip. That shot of Tequila I bought our table was not cheap. Other than my lungs picked up some desert stuff I am not used to. The whole trip was worth every dime.
 
So far I have had the pleasure of attending, three symposiums.
SWAT in Waco, 2012,2013- great time, great value, and an excellent lunch
St Paul AAW- great time, only four hour drive from home, expensive host hotel, that wanted a parking charge in addition to the over priced charge for their rooms. As a result, we stayed about six miles away for apx a little more than a third of the cost. Hopefully vendors are reading this, as the $200 that we saved by not staying in the recommended host hotels, was gladly spent at your booths. Probably wouldn't have spent so much, had I stayed at the host hotel.
It was hot in Waco, but the reality is that you are in air conditioning for the greater part of the day, any way.
There seems to be a lot of excuses by the AAW board as to why we have to hold our conventions in expensive cities, and with overly expensive rooms, but I for one just don't buy it. Some how SWAT is making it work for far less costs, and I'm sure they can't guarantee any where near the rooms that the AAW convention can. Also while their demonstrator lineup is somewhat less than at an AAW convention, it is still a great three days, for less than half the cost.
The same couple of main gripes seem to come up every year, expensive convention centers and expensive rooms, but nobody seems to be listening.
 
musky
Can't argue with you about pricing. Personally I have never stayed at any hotel for a symposium or Hamvention.
I either "day-trip" the event or stay at a campground
Ya it does limit me to events I can drive to, but I can drive a fair distance for a good enough reason, and see things on the way.
Drove to Portland for the AAW symposium there and stayed at a Campground at Jansen Beach. I didn't realize how many people were staying there until after the closing dinner. There must have been five trucks in a row that rolled straight from the Symposium to the campground.
There was only two of us staying at the campground for the Utah Symposium.
We are really looking forward to the Oregon Symposium next year, as the facility as a campground on site.

Ya, the money I saved on lodging certainly got spent at the booths.
 
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