A sobering accident and a question about face shields

[MarkAndrews]

Hi guys and gals,
I just dodged a bullet and I thought I'd post just to remind everyone to wear a face shield, no matter what you're doing! I had never worn a face shield but I bought a Uvex Bioshield as soon as I started turning thanks to a lot of good safety advice from people like the folks on this forum. Although I'm relatively new to turning, I've been making furniture as a hobbyist since 1999. Once I recognized how comfortable and easy to wear the face shield was, I started to use if for all my flat board work as well. I have NEVER had an accident and never experienced a kick back until about 2 hours ago. I was cutting some 8/4 red oak on my table saw. The piece was 10" x 6" (this was a rip not a cross cut) and I was trimming the side of the piece on my Powermatic 66 because it was rough. I had pushed the past the blade, hit the off button and reached to pull push piece completely clear of the table (I have a auxiliary table set up directly behind and flush with my cabinet saw). I don't actually know what happened but in the blink of an eye that piece caught the still spinning blade and rocketed right at my face. It hit me in the face shield and while I suffered a cut lip, I'm sure I would have lost teeth or worse had I not been wearing that face shield.

My question regards what happened with the face shield, although it definitely saved me, I am still injured. I think the injury resulted from the shield itself coming out of the frame of the mask (the clear shield was laying on the ground when I found it). Was this due to my improper installation of the shield or is it the nature of the design of the face shield? Are there any other shields out there that would have protected me better? I've been perusing the forums here and on a couple of other sites and people of talked about riot shields and softball catchers masks which are definitely options but I'm wondering if there is anything out there like the Bioshield but just a bit more impact resistant.
Stay safe!
Mark Andrews

 

[Barry Crowder]

First of all, I'm very glad you weren't seriously hurt.

I think the simple answer to your question is that the spinning table saw blade has a lot more energy than most people realize. When it got transferred to the board, and then got transferred to the shield, something had to absorb all that energy. Like crumple zones in a car, or even airbags, these measures can help, but they cannot always keep you from injury.

Lynne Yamaguchi did some calculations on the energy involved in woodturning, and while the numbers are certainly different than those from the table saw blade, it was easy to see that the Z87.1 rating is still pretty minimal.

http://lynneyamaguchi.com/Yamaguchi_AssessYourRisk.pdf

Somewhat related, a YouTuber just posted a photo of a hole in his ceiling from a bowl that exploded on the lathe. The piece went right through the drywall.

Very sobering stuff, indeed.

 

[Richard Coers]

Here's a good article that explains quite a lot about impact safety. She explains that the impact on her face was 30 times the safety rating of a face shield.
http://lynneyamaguchi.com/Yamaguchi_SafetyMatters.pdf

 

[Jamie Straw]

Mark, so glad you didn't suffer a serious injury! Depending on where it would have hit you if not wearing the shield, it could have been a very serious injury indeed. Unlike some forum members, I have always considered the table saw the most dangerous tool in my shop. Its power, instant launch ability and the number of ways things can go wrong takes it way past the band saw in my book. I've had only one serious kickback, and it was because I violated a safety rule. In your situation, I'd consider it critical to determine why, exactly, the kickback was allowed to occur. I could toss out a couple of possibilities, but I'm not sure you'd welcome that.

 

[robo hippy]

There are all sorts of face shields, and most of them are shields designed to deflect, but not stop much of anything beyond shavings. Glad you weren't hurt worse. I had to rip some boards to width today, and took them to my big bandsaw rather than on the table saw.

I always wanted to see Myth Busters do a show on table saw kick back. 5 hp 12 inch blade could probably put a 4 by 4 through a cinder block wall...

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

There are all sorts of face shields, and most of them are shields designed to deflect, but not stop much of anything beyond shavings.

robo hippy

This is very true, although the bionic shield does provide a little more protection than most face shields.

I'm the one who has, and uses, a police riot shield attached to a regular style face shield head band.......and a women's softball fielder's mask (not a catcher's mask) which I've welded extra protection onto the frontal area. I generally would not have been using either of these things while using my table saw. I only use them when I'm using my lathe, and foresee a problem with wood that is suspect of separating, or otherwise coming apart while turning. In the case of Mark's original post, either of these would have protected him with the table saw incident he described......

The police riot shield provides a great deal of unobstructed protection, but is very heavy. The women's softball fielder's mask works pretty well, and is my usual choice between the two. My resp-o-rator works with the police riot shield, but cannot be used with the softball fielder's mask.

In the photo, I'm wearing my old style face shield, but the women's softball fielder's mask fits under the bionic face shield. (That photo was taken prior to the time I decided to weld on some added protection to the softball fielder's mask.)

ko

 

[hockenbery]

Lynn Yamgucii's articles explain what the standards mean that you will find various shields and helmets meet.

The NIJ 0104.02 standard for riot helmet means it will take an 88 joule impact and not cause damage to your face.
Be aware that a blow to the head can cause concussive injury.

The popular uvex bionic shield has rating of Z87.1-2003 must withstand a 6.2 joule impact.
Provides good protection for object weighing .05 kg an

Purchasing something with a rated standard lets you know what tests it must pass.

The energy of flying object is a function of weight and velocity.
Increase the lathe speed more joules. It a bigger piece on the lathe more joules if a chunk come off.

I would avoid yard sale special or an eBay unless you can find a standard on the product you find.
Lynn's reference sheet again:
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.woodtu...kLynneYamaguchi.pdf?hhSearchTerms="Yamaguchi"

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Good on you for wearing the face shield for flat work. Glad the injury were relatively minor.

I have a PM 66 as well and put a SharkGuard on it for splitter and guard. It's easy on and off so more likely to use it. You can also make a zero clearance insert with a splitter of wood built in. I'm assuming you didn't have a splitter as that would have likely prevented the kickback.

Doug

 

[John Torchick]

Was turning a piece of pine yesterday for an insert for a gizmo I have. A piece came off, broken at the grain. I have the Uvex face shield. Fortunatey, the piece didn't hit me but glad I had forethought to purchase one.

 

[Jay Fluegel]

Glad you weren't hurt any worse. I use the 3M Airstream which offers pretty good face protection ANSI Z87.1-2003 as well as, head protection. Best of all it offers great respiratory protection as well. It took a couple of sessions to get used to it but now I feel naked without it. Granted it is expensive but so are trips to ER's.

https://www.industrialsafety.com/3M...66550629.htm?gclid=CLaT7MK36csCFQsDaQodtgcGxg

 

[Jamie Straw]

Good on you for wearing the face shield for flat work. Glad the injury were relatively minor.

I have a PM 66 as well and put a SharkGuard on it for splitter and guard. It's easy on and off so more likely to use it. You can also make a zero clearance insert with a splitter of wood built in. I'm assuming you didn't have a splitter as that would have likely prevented the kickback.

Doug

I think kickback can happen with just a splitter, with a little human help, but much less likely with the anti-kickback pawls accompanying the splitter. Even with all that, I like to wait for the blade to come to a stop before moving the wood past it. Slows things down, but I'm in no hurry. I also stay out of the line of fire with the table saw as much as possible, though if the flying piece goes high, all bets are off.

 

[Gretch Flo]

"I think kickback can happen with just a splitter, with a little human help, but much less likely with the anti-kickback pawls accompanying the splitter. "

Several years ago when I was doing flat work I got to see kick back displayed nicely. I was ripping a 2x4 on radial arm saw and the pawls hadn't engaged (wondered what those things were for!!!!!) and it zinged back like a bullet. (I was way to the left of it).
On my chain saws , I use the "whimpy" anti kickback chains (has a green link for id ing it.), and doesn't cut as well as the regular chains-but I want to be as safe as possible and accept that, Gretch

 

[Raul McCai]

Glad you are OK. I use a Hockey helmet when what I'm turning could turn out wrong.
My lathe has a cage but I'd not put it on.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Great Idea

I'm surprised there is nothing like this available commercially, like at woodturners catalogue, looks very safe and not that big, confortable too.

This is very true, although the bionic shield does provide a little more protection than most face shields.

I'm the one who has, and uses, a police riot shield attached to a regular style face shield head band.......and a women's softball fielder's mask (not a catcher's mask) which I've welded extra protection onto the frontal area. I generally would not have been using either of these things while using my table saw. I only use them when I'm using my lathe, and foresee a problem with wood that is suspect of separating, or otherwise coming apart while turning. In the case of Mark's original post, either of these would have protected him with the table saw incident he described......

The police riot shield provides a great deal of unobstructed protection, but is very heavy. The women's softball fielder's mask works pretty well, and is my usual choice between the two. My resp-o-rator works with the police riot shield, but cannot be used with the softball fielder's mask.

In the photo, I'm wearing my old style face shield, but the women's softball fielder's mask fits under the bionic face shield. (That photo was taken prior to the time I decided to weld on some added protection to the softball fielder's mask.)

ko

 

[olaf Vogel]

IMO one of the most important things about face masks, is comfort.
So that you wear it all the time! (Well, while using machines)

Big hits are something to try and avoid, through good technique and careful planning.
So there's a low probability of high risk situations.
It this case i would analyse what could be done to improve the saw; anti-kick back, over arm guard, or just push the piece all the way through.

Hits can still happen, and it seems even your "lightweight" mask did the job. A large piece of oak that you describe will be pretty heavy. Hitting that mask will distort it and that may be why the shield popped out.

Happy to hear you are ok. I'd celebrate with a beer.

I use the same one, love it, and use it all the time. And have taken a large hit that almost broke my nose.

The bigger risk in IMO is not wearing protective gear. That small crap flies around very quickly, all the time, and posses high probability of minor risk. A friend recently left his shield off, for a minor job, got a high speed splinter in the eye and lost his eye.

Olaf

 

[MarkAndrews]

I think kickback can happen with just a splitter, with a little human help, but much less likely with the anti-kickback pawls accompanying the splitter. Even with all that, I like to wait for the blade to come to a stop before moving the wood past it. Slows things down, but I'm in no hurry. I also stay out of the line of fire with the table saw as much as possible, though if the flying piece goes high, all bets are off.

You are absolutely right Jamie, I was doing a repetitive cut, I had to do it 24 times and this was the 24th piece and I got lazy not wanting to wait for the blade to come to a stop. I also got distracted by the off cut which fell into the clearance between the blade and the table. I don't know why I was looking at it, but I was and that's when things went sideways. I can tell you I'll never do it again . My lip is almost healed and I've still got all my teeth, something I am sure I would not be able to say if I had not been wearing that shield.