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6" Spindle Gouge I made

M

Mitchell Cholewinski

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This is a recent 1/2" spindle gouge I milled on a Grizzly mini mill I just bought.The flute is milled just a hair below the center of the rod diameter and the flute is six inches. The picture makes it thin because of the angle I shot the picture. This particular gouge isn't hardened as of yet but I made others the same way and hardened with Mapp gas. I am very pleased the way they cut. Next I will mill one using M2 steel and expect to get even better results. Anyone here interested in making their own gouges? Mitch
 

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Only one comment, Mitch. The cutting edge is the most important element so I understand why you would focus attention on that aspect but why make the flute as long as it is? Seems to me that less flute, more solid shaft makes for a stiffer tool and with the flute that long you must be getting more flex than you would want in a gouge. Nice looking piece of work, nonetheless.
I do make some of my own tools but haven't taken on the task of shaping a gouge yet.
 
Wyatt
Thanks for your response Wyatt. This particular rod I bought at Home Depot. I don't know the composition of the steel but at this time I didn't care much. I just bought a Grizzly milling machine and I wanted to have a cheaper steel to get the flute milled right. This worked perfectly and when I hardened it with Mapp gas it cut like a champ. I am experimenting and when I find out the answers to a few more questions, I will buy good steel from Enco. I always buy from Enco. If your thinking you want to make a tool tell them what you want to do and they will tell you the steel to get.
 
George H
Thank you George and what you say is true at times, not so true at other. You ask why so long a flute, and I say why not George ,and I don't say this sarcastically at all? Let me explain. I just bought a milling machine and was trying to get familiar with it. I made six fluted gouges with side grinder and a 1/2" grinding wheel. On these gouges a two inch flute is a very serviceable gouge and they perform well. When I was at that level it was fine saying the shorter the flute firmer the tool is with less flex like you said. Now enter the milling machine. This is no longer acceptable logic. I want to make my tools as close to the quality of a factory made tool as possible. A new factory made fluted spindle gouge is six inches long. I can get my gouges hardened professionally, tempered , and get the Rockwell hardness of each tool I get hardened, for nothing. Now, all I need to do is use the very best steel that a guy like myself can buy and mill and I have a great tool. Let me explain the stiffness question. When you use 1/2" rod to mill a spindle gouge you need to mill down to a shade below the middle of the diameter of the rod and there will be no flex or chance of breaking a tool. This was determined by smarter people than I will ever be. So for this type gouge I will always mill down to below the middle of the diameter. I was advised to try milling down 1/3" and 1/4" and decide which I want to use the most, all three should be good spindle gouges. Make a different profiled gouge and do the same.
You say you made some other tools other than gouges? How about posting a few pictures so we can all enjoy them. I made a bunch myself. You don't have to be a pro. Some of mine were crude but they work for the intended purpose, if I had to use them all the time. Mitch
 
Maybe I have finally figured out how to post a photo. The tools here are all made of 01 steel. I have made lots of knives out of 01 and have learned how to heat-treat it.
 

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Tom Lewis
I buy steel rods from Enco. They have largest selection and are cheapest. Do a search and get a catalog from them. I can get the steel hardened ,tempered and the rockwell hardness number for nothing professionally long as I don't get greedy. Mitch
 
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Tom
Looks like your doing a great job on the tools so far. Do me a favor and write what each tool is. It's hard to tell what some of them are. Congratulations on getting the pictures posted. Thanks Mitch
 
Hughie
Thanks for your input Hughie. Your absolutely right about heating HSS being much different than heating carbon steel. As I said in another response on this thread I said I can get it done professionally , hardened, tempered and get the rockwell hardness number , no charge. Not sure for how long though. Mitch:cool2:
 
Here are what I call my home-made tools. In the first picture going from left to right, negative rake scraper, flat detail gouge, skew scraper, round nose scraper, skew scraper, round nose scraper, side scraper, beading parting tool.
Second picture going from left to right, flat detail gouge, pyramid point tool, pyramid point tool, round skew, round nose scraper, small negative rake round nose scraper,

See Post #10 on this thread for photos
 
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e
Thanks for your input Hughie. Your absolutely right about heating HSS being much different than heating carbon steel. As I said in another response on this thread I said I can get it done professionally , hardened, tempered and get the rockwell hardness number , no charge. Not sure for how long though.
Click to expand...

In that case Mitch jump in with both feet, go for it. 😀
 
I've made more of my tools than I have bought.

When I first started turning, I had a cheap Chinese set of tools that had very short blade lengths, and were not very well made. When I looked at the price of some of the "premium" tools, I was a little offended, and so I decided to make my own. I'm not a machinist, but have access to a precision lathe and milling machine at work. So I bought some of the tool steel that we had on hand from my employer, and made several tools. The steels that I used varied, but include A2, O1, and H13. They don't hold an edge quite as well as M2, but they are all steels that I can heat treat well without a vacuum furnace (which we don't have). So I've made over a dozen tools for about $50, and they all work just about as well as the one Sorby tool that I bought for comparison (which cost me $53).

However, I recently purchased a Thompson gouge and skew, and they are well worth the price. These are far superior to my home made stuff and the Sorby.

Matt
 
Matt
Sounds like you have been busy making tools Matt. Thanks for responding on this thread. How about posting pictures of the ones you made so we can all enjoy seeing what you have done? I don't think any one making his own tools expects to make any tool that even comes close to equallying a Doug Tompson tool. The man is a real pro. I have this thread on another forum and he responded a few times. He"s a regular good guy. Mitch
 
When I talked to Doug and ordered a gouge he acted like he started building them just for himself. Then more people started wanting them. If you want a more accurate story ask him. Maybe he would give some tips on making your own tools. I would like to know more about heat treatment.
 
Wyatt Holm said:
When I talked to Doug and ordered a gouge he acted like he started building them just for himself. Then more people started wanting them. If you want a more accurate story ask him. Maybe he would give some tips on making your own tools. I would like to know more about heat treatment.
Click to expand...

Mitch and I exchanged emails and toolmaking is very interesting...

Wyatt, I started when Jerry Glaser sold his business because I couldn't afford the new prices. If you go back to Woodcentral years ago you'll see a passing comment once in a while about my toolmaking... back then I would give them away to my friends and make more. Then two were sent to Mark Kauder to evaluate and the rest is history.
 
Mitchell Cholewinski said:
Matt
Sounds like you have been busy making tools Matt. Thanks for responding on this thread. How about posting pictures of the ones you made so we can all enjoy seeing what you have done?
Click to expand...

I finally got around to taking a couple of pictures. The first one shows the gouges and skews I've made, and the second one shows the scrapers that I've made. I saved a lot of money making them myself, learned a few things about machining, and had some fun in the process. Plus, as with woodworking, it's always nice to say that I made it myself.🙂

Matt
 

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Matt
Very nice work you have here. You did great. Couple questions, if you don't mind? What type steel did you use on the gouges and what mill did you use to mill the flutes? What size is the roughing gouge ? That is a roughing gouge isn't it Matt? Did you make that on a horizontal milling machine or how did you do it? I made a bunch of scrapers from two inch files and have bought every type scraper so never felt need to make more but want to make one with negative rake. Keep up the great work and thanks for posting the pictures so everyone can enjoy your work. Matt, I wanted to ask you what grind you have on them fluted gouges? Mitch
 
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Mitch,

The spindle gouge and bowl gouge are made out of O1. The SRG's are made out of H-13, which in my opinion holds an edge better than O1. The SRG's are 1 1/4" and 5/8" diameter, both made from round bar stock (nice and strong tangs, unlike SRG's that are formed from flat stock). To mill the flutes on all of them, I used ball-nosed end mills sized for the job. All were made on a vertical mill.

Matt
 
Matt, outstanding selection of tools and I really like the 1-1/4 SRG... to use a tool that you made is priceless.

Mitch, as you can see by now all the spindle gouges are common to each other with a large radius and different depth flutes... bowl gouges need a deep flute so you get the cutting angle.

Stay with the M2 because it machines well, the A11 like we talked about has problems besides being gummy... to machine it you need coolant... let it get a little to hot and it hardens to a point the best carbide won't cut it.

Why does a spindle gouge need to have a 6 inch flute? Sure it's the standard but that's a bit to long... something in the range of 4-1/2 might be better.
 
Doug Thompson
Thanks Doug for the reply and good to see your back from the symposium. How did things go for you ,regarding all the tools you took?Bet you were thinking of coming home to get at the new mill? As far as the 6" flute I think your right but I had to try it to se for myself. Didn't you say Crucible makes the M2 steel? By chance, do you have a link or address to order M2? Mitch
 
Crucible has service centers all over, go to this page and find the nearest.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/contact/regionUS.cfm

The TAW symposium in Nashville was better than last year... how this club can bring such talented professionals in one place is amazing. The surprise was how Cindy Drozda takes a spindle gouge and grinds it with a fingernail... I thought for sure she would use a detail gouge. I go to these because it's fun to talk to the people, standing in a booth is not fun.

Hopefully the mill will run the first parts tomorrow.
 
Doug,
That looks interesting, but online metals has good prices and shipping as far as I can tell. Could you tell me which steel would work best, a2 s7 etc?
 
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Doug Thompson
Thanks for the link Doug. I located an office in Meadville Pa. It's just up north of Pittsburgh interstate 79 maybe an hours ride at most.
I wish you well when your new mill gets in full swing. I was in a different type of business but know how important production is. Worked as a two color metal decorating machine pressman for 30 years then was a production manager for several years then moved up. Production is king. Thanks again. Hope we could keep in touch. Mitch
 
Wyatt Holm
I am not sure if your asking me or Doug about hardening steel or heat treatment as you call it. I can tell you how I do it, and it works. Doug does it professionally or gets it done professionally and his way is out of our leageu. If you want to have me tell you how I do it, e-mail me here and I will send you directions how I do it. I have sent this to several other guys. Thanks for replying on this thread. Mitch Mit_ch@comcast.net
 
6" Spindle Gouge I made - Heat Treating

For those of you interested in heat treating your own tools, there is a wealth of information available online at the Crucible website. Just enter

www.crucibleservice.com/eselector

This is an electronic version of Crucible's well known "Orange Book". In it is detailed information on most grades which you will run into , as well as information on heat treating them.

As you may suspect, heat treating carbon tool steels such as O-1, and somewhat higher alloy tools steels like A2 requires lower temperatures and is much more manageable in a home shop. Highspeed steels such as M2 require higher temps and more tempers to get appropriate hardnesses.

A word of caution - pay particular attention to the tempering instructions to avoid dangerously brittle tools.

While carbon steels can be tempered in your home oven (500F) the highspeeds require at least 1000F. Invest in a set of Tempil sticks to properly evaluate your tempering temperatures if using a torch. Poorly tempered tools will chip and may snap with an unexpected tool catch.

Be safe!! Keep turning.

Jerry Wright
 
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