$25 Carbide Inserts

[Bill Alston]

Looking at some of the hollowing tools that are sold in the US I was quite surprised at the price of the inserts. I turn mostly small stuff and really like the little 6mm cupped carbide inserts. They have various names depending on the vendor. The standard industry type is something like RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T.
I managed to buy a few boxes of these some years back on eBay and got them for £1.20 ($1.57) per insert. They are currently between £6 and £10 over here in the UK if you get them from a wood turning tools supplier. They might be cheaper from a carbide insert specialist but I can’t see the exact type offered over here at the moment. Are folks really paying $25 an insert in the US?

 

[john lucas]

Yes but because these cutters cut instead of scrape the edge lasts a very long time. Rotate the cutter every few uses to put a fresh edge on the front. I've hollowed at least 100 Christmas ornaments with mine and still haven't replaced the cutter. I get them from Mike Hunter.
My experience with aftermarket metal working carbide cutters is they don't hold up like USA made. I go through 5 chinese milling cutters to 1 USA cutter. Don't know if the less expensive Chinese cupped cutters hold up like the Hunter cutters but bets are on his.

 

[hockenbery]

Don't know if the less expensive Chinese cupped cutters hold up like the Hunter cutters but bets are on his.
[/QUOTEi
I agree. When I have a product that works well for me I tend to stick with it. Why invite the frustration of experimenting.

 

[Bill Alston]

Yes but because these cutters cut instead of scrape the edge lasts a very long time. Rotate the cutter every few uses to put a fresh edge on the front. I've hollowed at least 100 Christmas ornaments with mine and still haven't replaced the cutter. I get them from Mike Hunter.
My experience with aftermarket metal working carbide cutters is they don't hold up like USA made. I go through 5 chinese milling cutters to 1 USA cutter. Don't know if the less expensive Chinese cupped cutters hold up like the Hunter cutters but bets are on his.

Yes of course! Mine cut as well. The ones I have are very sharp and last a long time!

I also use the same inserts on my metalwork lathe and milling machine for cutting Aluminium, Wood and Plastics, etc.

If anyone wants to take a chance, these may be an option for those in the US? $8.90 each, and if they are anything like the ones I have they will be fine.

https://www.motion.com/products/sku/13928563?srsltid=AfmBOoo5q1eFL1QMZLtXqVK02Wvw7I-RmuWLb1YTUtCILui0rTXFs6yU

 

[Richard Coers]

Yes of course! Mine cut as well. The ones I have are very sharp and last a long time!

I also use the same inserts on my metalwork lathe and milling machine for cutting Aluminium, Wood and Plastics, etc.

If anyone wants to take a chance, these may be an option for those in the US? $8.90 each, and if they are anything like the ones I have they will be fine.

https://www.motion.com/products/sku/13928563?srsltid=AfmBOoo5q1eFL1QMZLtXqVK02Wvw7I-RmuWLb1YTUtCILui0rTXFs6yU

Could you break down the part code numbers, I can't even figure out the diameter of that cutter.

 

[Richard Coers]

Looking at some of the hollowing tools that are sold in the US I was quite surprised at the price of the inserts. I turn mostly small stuff and really like the little 6mm cupped carbide inserts. They have various names depending on the vendor. The standard industry type is something like RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T.
I managed to buy a few boxes of these some years back on eBay and got them for £1.20 ($1.57) per insert. They are currently between £6 and £10 over here in the UK if you get them from a wood turning tools supplier. They might be cheaper from a carbide insert specialist but I can’t see the exact type offered over here at the moment. Are folks really paying $25 an insert in the US?

Yes, people are really spending that money. For many hobby turners, one insert could be used for years. My insert tools are not my go to, and many of them are just sitting in a drawer waiting for that specific use I thought I would need them for. Also a $25 purchase is the cheapest thing I would buy for turning. I spend 3 times more than that on abrasive orders.

 

[Bill Alston]

Could you break down the part code numbers, I can't even figure out the diameter of that cutter.

There are two specifications for carbide inserts, ANSI for the US and ISO for the rest of the world. The round cupped cutters are ISO, where the “06” is the diameter in mm. The “02” denotes the thickness, which perversely isn’t 2mm but is actually 2.38mm!
08 = 8mm, 10 = 10mm and 12 = 12mm.

If you look up ISO carbide insert codes there are lots of charts online. Sadly most of them seem incomplete, as some manufacturers have their own ideas about it. Ceratizit manufacturer the RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T which is, I believe what I have. Possibly the most significant part of the code is the “F”. This denotes it has a sharp edge. I have some other RCGT0602 inserts for cutting steel and they are positively dull!

These are currently the most expensive inserts over here.

Hope Carbide Pro Hollowing Tool

Designed for an all round tool from boxes to deeper vessels. The end sleeve pulls off allowing the 16mm bar to fit into any HOPE quick release…

hopewoodturning.co.uk

“16mm steel bar with stainless steel tip + 2 x 6mm American carbide cutters.”

Seems strange you can buy a complete hollowing tool for £69 with two ”American” carbide cutters?

 

[Kevin Jenness]

I use cutters from AZ Carbide at about $10-12. They seem to work as well as the ones that came with my two Hunter tools and Jemeson hollowing cutter.

 

[Bill Alston]

I use cutters from AZ Carbide at about $10-12. They seem to work as well as the ones that came with my two Hunter tools and Jemeson hollowing cutter.

Ah, that’s much better. 😉

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Looking at some of the hollowing tools that are sold in the US I was quite surprised at the price of the inserts. I turn mostly small stuff and really like the little 6mm cupped carbide inserts. They have various names depending on the vendor. The standard industry type is something like RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T.
I managed to buy a few boxes of these some years back on eBay and got them for £1.20 ($1.57) per insert. They are currently between £6 and £10 over here in the UK if you get them from a wood turning tools supplier. They might be cheaper from a carbide insert specialist but I can’t see the exact type offered over here at the moment. Are folks really paying $25 an insert in the US?

Usually you get what you pay for… I gladly pay $25 for a high quality carbide cutter from Hunter Tools.

 

[Bill Alston]

Usually you get what you pay for… I gladly pay $25 for a high quality carbide cutter from Hunter Tools.

I bet there aren’t too many manufacturers of these cutters. You could just be paying more for the same thing?

 

[Brian Gustin]

I bet there aren’t too many manufacturers of these cutters. You could just be paying more for the same thing?

One other thing I'll consider if I am debating paying more for something is, will the company that sells it to me back up the product? If I got a lifetime warranty on a cutter (against chipping, damage, breakage, etc.) vs. a 1-year warranty (when I might use the cutters 3-4 times in a year) I might consider the extra $10 to $12 to be cheap insurance - If I replace a $25 cutter once every 5 years but have to replace a $12 cutter very year, the $25 cutter is much cheaper.

 

[Bill Alston]

One other thing I'll consider if I am debating paying more for something is, will the company that sells it to me back up the product? If I got a lifetime warranty on a cutter (against chipping, damage, breakage, etc.) vs. a 1-year warranty (when I might use the cutters 3-4 times in a year) I might consider the extra $10 to $12 to be cheap insurance - If I replace a $25 cutter once every 5 years but have to replace a $12 cutter very year, the $25 cutter is much cheaper.

I’ve used this type of cutter on my milling machine (Interrupted cut) cutting aluminium alloy, I haven’t had one chip yet in over 5 years. I somehow doubt it will chip when used on wood! Would you really get your money back if you knocked it on the lathe and chipped it?

 

[Brian Gustin]

I’ve used this type of cutter on my milling machine (Interrupted cut) cutting aluminium alloy, I haven’t had one chip yet in over 5 years. I somehow doubt it will chip when used on wood! Would you really get your money back if you knocked it on the lathe and chipped it?

I've known some small batch producers that would replace it even if I threw it across the shop and shattered it against an anvil. Like I said, some will go the extra mile to back up their product - and again - nothing is 100% perfect 100% of the time - With my luck, if there's gonna be a defect in a tool once out of every thousand, I'd be the one in that thousand to get the bad tool, so yes, I do pay attention to thinks like warranty and service after the sale, and a $10 or $15 difference in price averaged over 5 years really isn't a whole heck of a lot, innit? Cuppa coffee would cost more.

 

[Yuri Grapov]

try

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/15592033

 

[Richard Coers]

There are two specifications for carbide inserts, ANSI for the US and ISO for the rest of the world. The round cupped cutters are ISO, where the “06” is the diameter in mm. The “02” denotes the thickness, which perversely isn’t 2mm but is actually 2.38mm!
08 = 8mm, 10 = 10mm and 12 = 12mm.

If you look up ISO carbide insert codes there are lots of charts online. Sadly most of them seem incomplete, as some manufacturers have their own ideas about it. Ceratizit manufacturer the RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T which is, I believe what I have. Possibly the most significant part of the code is the “F”. This denotes it has a sharp edge. I have some other RCGT0602 inserts for cutting steel and they are positively dull!

These are currently the most expensive inserts over here.

Hope Carbide Pro Hollowing Tool

Designed for an all round tool from boxes to deeper vessels. The end sleeve pulls off allowing the 16mm bar to fit into any HOPE quick release…

hopewoodturning.co.uk

“16mm steel bar with stainless steel tip + 2 x 6mm American carbide cutters.”

Seems strange you can buy a complete hollowing tool for £69 with two ”American” carbide cutters?

Thanks!

 

[William Rogers]

I only have a couple of carbide cutting tools. One is a homemade similar to the Hunter Badger. The carbide cutter is 6mm from Simon Hope that I bought for hollowing, but prefer the Jordan hollowing tools. Hove no idea where Simon gets his cutters. The other is the Jimmy Clewes Mate II. This one has a 8mm cutter I think from AZ Carbide. I bought this after Jimmy ended his association with Hunter. I like this tool for small lidded boxes and the cutter has held up fine. I’ll likely buy a replacement (price) from AZ Carbide or Jimmy Clewes for the Clewes tool when the time comes

 

[Tom McDonnell]

Myself as well.

 

[Tom McDonnell]

I use cutters from AZ Carbide at about $10-12. They seem to work as well as the ones that came with my two Hunter tools and Jemeson hollowing cutter.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I've tried different cutters as I have worked with carbide cutters for over 50 years and the Hunter carbide is far and away the best I have ever used.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Arizona Carbide... what a confusing place. They advertise inserts for woodturners. Under their listing for diamond inerts there isn't a single style that's used in production CNC woodturning. Huh? Whether you like CNC woodturning/wood routing or not it still represents a significant segment of the carbide insert business and they don't even address it.

Inserts ideal for cutting wood are generally categorized as "high positive", the same inserts as designed for cutting aluminum. There'll usually be a "GT" in the insert spec. I don't see any Arizona inserts with a GT spec.

The insert world is turned upside down because of the 3rd world's clever counterfeiting. Hard to know who to trust. When I started buying high positive inserts for aluminum Korloy brand was the first I tried and became my favorite. They were fairly expensive. Now I could buy a pack of ten on eBay in what appears to be genuine Korloy packaging for less than what a single insert used to cost.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

They advertise inserts for woodturners. Under their listing for diamond inerts there isn't a single style that's used in production CNC woodturning.

Somehow that doesn't seem confusing to me. Their market is craft woodturners, not cnc shops. It would be helpful if they used standard ISO codes for comparison. The cutter geometry looks similar to the ones listed by Bill Alston above ( RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T)?

Can you suggest any particular cutters of the type you favor that would work in the popular Hunter and Jamieson shafts? I would be interested in trying them out.

Also, can you post a photo of your cnc woodturning machine?

 

[Bill Alston]

I’ve watched a few wood turning CNC machines and they all used these types of inserts. I’ve often wondered if they could be used by hand, with a suitable handle?! 😆

5 types of CNC woodturning tools and best for woodworking

CNC wood lathe cutter is a machine tool that rotates a workpiece about an axis of rotation to perform various operations such as cutting, sanding, knurling, drilling, deformation, facing, and turning.

www.cncsparetools.com

 

[David Stranz]

I have been very happy with the low cost carbide cutters I bought from Cap'n Eddie Castelin (http://eddiecastelin.com/). I don't know where he sourced them, but they look to be of good quality and last a long time. Unfortunately, his web site says he's going out of business (or may already be).

I routinely sharpen my flat topped cutters using a diamond hone once I've rotated them all around and they have become a bit dull. That restores them to as new condition as far as I can tell. I suppose this would work for cupped cutters as well.

 

[Bill Alston]

I resharpen flat carbide cutters as well, on a 600g Diamond hone. The cupped cutters would not be so easy to sharpen, but some have tried.

 

[Dean Center]

I can't imagine that Mike Hunter makes his own inserts. Does anybody know where he sources them? What about AZ Carbide? The cutters that Bill Alston mentioned are made by Ceratizit, a Taiwanese company. (Chinese with an asterix.)

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Can you suggest any particular cutters of the type you favor that would work in the popular Hunter and Jamieson shafts? I would be interested in trying them out.

Also, can you post a photo of your cnc woodturning machine?

I don't use any round inserts so no suggestions. If I did use them they should have "GT" in identification.

For lathe inserts I use diamond inserts very much like Bill shows in post 23 of this thread. High positive geometry, mirror polish, with small nose radius. The small nose allows clean severing of wood fibers giving a surface needing minor sanding and no tearouts. At least two active forum members who claim years of CNC experience contend the smooth surface is not possible, they're wrong.

The CNC lathe I use most is an Omniturn GT75. Rather than posting a picture you can find more info on Youtube. I prefer to make "turning like" objects on a CNC milling machine because in most respects it's easier. to not have a chunk of wood spinning.

 

[Bill Alston]

I can't imagine that Mike Hunter makes his own inserts. Does anybody know where he sources them? What about AZ Carbide? The cutters that Bill Alston mentioned are made by Ceratizit, a Taiwanese company. (Chinese with an asterix.)

Interesting. I didn’t know they were a Taiwanese company.

When I was much younger machine tools starting appearing on the market (in the UK) that were good value and well made. It turned out they were made in Korea. One such brand was Naerok (Korean spelled backwards!). They slowly disappeared from the market to be replaced by Taiwanese or Chinese products. Taiwanese products are thought by some to be superior to Chinese equivalents but I don’t know if that’s entirely true. I do know that the more expensive wood turning lathes sold by Axminster Tools are indeed made in Taiwan. I have one and it does seem well made. I believe my Axminster belt grinder is also made there. I have a good selection of Torx insert screws garnered for use on some of my home made turning tools. I always select Taiwanese made ones as they look much better than any others.

 

[Richard Coers]

I’ve watched a few wood turning CNC machines and they all used these types of inserts. I’ve often wondered if they could be used by hand, with a suitable handle?! 😆

5 types of CNC woodturning tools and best for woodworking

CNC wood lathe cutter is a machine tool that rotates a workpiece about an axis of rotation to perform various operations such as cutting, sanding, knurling, drilling, deformation, facing, and turning.

www.cncsparetools.com

View attachment 66617

I use those cutters on my HAPFO copy lathe. If $25 upsets someone for a carbide insert, they certainly wouldn't want to buy these cutters at around $116 each

 

[Kevin Jenness]

The CNC lathe I use most is an Omniturn GT75. Rather than posting a picture you can find more info on Youtube. I prefer to make "turning like" objects on a CNC milling machine because in most respects it's easier. to not have a chunk of wood spinning.

What does your cnc milling machine look like? In the past you have alluded to milling asymmetrical work with a stationary cutter. Do you do this on a milling machine? How many axes are involved?

 

[Bernie Kopfer]

This discussion is interesting to follow. It seems that the underlying question is “ are there different grades/ levels of carbide cutter quality.?” And secondly how would we (the consumer) know? It is hard to believe that the OEM sellers have a significantly better cutter/scraper carbide than the knockoff sellers. If they did I would expect them to tout it in their marketing.
Sadly I have no insight into this conundrum, except buyer be aware. I have used originals, Asian knockoffs, AZ carbide. I can’t say I’ve really noticed any difference —- except for the voice in my head saying cost equals quality. But as someone said believing that they are purchasing the best also results in peace of mind. So until someone does a Project Farm type test on inserts we are on our own.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I can't imagine that Mike Hunter makes his own inserts. Does anybody know where he sources them? What about AZ Carbide? The cutters that Bill Alston mentioned are made by Ceratizit, a Taiwanese company. (Chinese with an asterix.)

I don't know where Mike gets his carbide but remember this, carbide is how Mike made his living all his life and he knows carbide in and out. The carbide that Mike sells is the best there is and for me is worth the price.

 

[john lucas]

I’ve used this type of cutter on my milling machine (Interrupted cut) cutting aluminium alloy, I haven’t had one chip yet in over 5 years. I somehow doubt it will chip when used on wood! Would you really get your money back if you knocked it on the lathe and chipped it?

They will chip on wood. I have looked at my used cutters under magnification. The interesting thing is they kind of chip like a flint arrowhead abd the gullet is sharp. They still cut although not as well as when the edge is new.

 

[Bill Alston]

When I was first looking at these RCGT0602 inserts for woodturning in 2016 I bought a couple of different ones. I bought one from wood turner Simon Hope for £10 and a similar (but not the same) one from a tool supplier for about £4. I’m sure the “quality” of both inserts were the same. The difference was in the sharpness. The Hope cutter was noticeably sharper than the other. A discussion online between a few people confirmed that the Ceratizit inserts were indeed very sharp. I was sent one for examination. It appeared identical to the cutter I bought from Simon Hope and just as sharp. I looked at both under a magnifying glass and couldn’t see any difference. Remember these cutters (from Ceratizit) are designed to cut aluminium and plastics so are more than durable enough to cut wood. I’ve made over a dozen tools (some sold to club members) to take these inserts and they work very well and last a long time. I’ve not actually worn one out yet cutting wood, or have one chip. I guess the older ones must have dulled a little though?

These are some of the tools I’ve made to take the RCGT0602’s. The articulated tool at the top takes a 9mm flat insert. I’ve not got round to making another arm to fit the smaller insert. I’ve also made tools to take the RCGT08 and RCGT10 inserts.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Bill, just curious how do you get the surface finish on your homemade tools? They look like they've been abrasive blasted. No indication cutting tool marks in the finish.

 

[Bill Alston]

Bill, just curious how do you get the surface finish on your homemade tools? They look like they've been abrasive blasted. No indication cutting tool marks in the finish.

Yes, I sandblast some of my tools. Apart from looking quite nice the surface finish helps retain the Microcrystalline Wax I apply afterwards which helps prevent rusting.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Usually you get what you pay for… I gladly pay $25 for a high quality carbide cutter from Hunter Tools.

Me too. I go through one per month with my hard exotics and they are worth it.

 

[Michael Schneider]

Looking at some of the hollowing tools that are sold in the US I was quite surprised at the price of the inserts. I turn mostly small stuff and really like the little 6mm cupped carbide inserts. They have various names depending on the vendor. The standard industry type is something like RCGT 0602MOFN-27 H10T.
I managed to buy a few boxes of these some years back on eBay and got them for £1.20 ($1.57) per insert. They are currently between £6 and £10 over here in the UK if you get them from a wood turning tools supplier. They might be cheaper from a carbide insert specialist but I can’t see the exact type offered over here at the moment. Are folks really paying $25 an insert in the US?

Bill,

There are others here with vast CNC experience. Many years ago, I worked for Cincinnati Milacron (a now-defunt Machine Tool Maker that started in the 1800's). The tooling consumables (grinder wheels, tooling, Carbide insert....) had high markups, but there were costs associated with them... (The business segment that sold grinding wheels is still in business as a spin off). Storage of many for each different type of tools, inventory cost (shelves, people, etc add to that cost) (people don't want to wait when then order.. . Finding a good supplier that delivers high quality tooling... all add to that cost

You are taking the difference between wholesale vs. retail vs. OEM, with AZ carbide being in the middle and Mike Hunter being OEM. When you buy from Mike, he has done the work, keeps a stock, and stands behind his tools.... Also, the R&D and scrap costs of designing and producing the tools. The margin from cutters help keep a roof over his head, cover R&D cost of new tools, etc. When I talked with him on the phone, his support was great, and he seemed like a nice guy.

I don't use many carbide cutters, so I buy from Mike. I even order directly from his site, so he gets all the markup (I want Hunter tools to be around for a while .

You certainly could buy 2 boxes of cutters that are hunter #1's and #2'S by the box. Your cost per cutter would be maybe 30% more than wholesale (they buy 100's of boxes to get wholesale from factory). And you could buy the best brands (yes there are good and cheap cutters).

I would guess that AZ carbide likely started by buying a couple of boxes to lower their cost of turning, and selling in lots of 5 or so or even individually from the box.

I used to do that with Festools sandpaper many years ago. I bought 6 of the largest boxes of Festool, and grabbed 5 from each box and sold them on ebay as an assortment of 6 grains for 2x my cost. I got my Festool sandpaper free from it. But I did have to buy the six large boxes, set them on the shelf, and send them out in the mail when a purchase happened. The customer won, because they where able to start sanding cheaper and the Festool purchase, and I got free sandpaper for my work. (It can be hard to justify to SWMBO the cost of a new Festool sander, and multiple boxes of Festool sandpaper at the same time, so the SWMBO factor was there for most customers .

If you would like to match the hunter cutter with a good brand of CNC insert, you could take your cutters (likely #1 and #2) into a shop that sells them, and they could match the Brand and part #, and you would be good to go.

When you go to the counter, tell them you are looking for good-quality (not made in China) CNC inserts that match these two and that you will be cutting wood. Ask for a quote of 5, 10, and box for the Hunter #1 and #2 you carried in with you. You can get the good brands from multiple quotes. In a large town, there are multiple stores like this.

Note: Some of these suppliers only deal with PO's. So have plenty of cash when you, and when you buy it. Call them up, tell them you have a quote of XX and would like a box of X and box of Y, and tell them to send them to the "Will Call" desk and that you will be paying cash. That will let you get around the need for a PO to buy. When you walk in to pick it up, ask them to direct you to the "Will Call" desk.



Until I use more Inserts, I will just buy from Mike Hunter, but you are 100% correct that if you go closer to wholesale, it will be much cheaper, you just have to do the footwork to find a top brand, exact model model #, and pay for the box, and store the box


Others in the group could tell you the current top brand. You can save money by buying a box, but only a box made by Top Maker carbide inserts. I used to have a couple of catalogs on my desk from (Shenzen Bwin Precision Tools, Nother American Carbide, WAT Tool Co, ECHAINTOOL Precision CO used to be good), but that was 30 years ago.

Note: you are only cutting wood; precision has a different meaning to metal cutting, and you need good, but not best, cutters for wood). Someone good at the counter. If you have industrial wood suppliers that are used by commercial wood shops, that would be a good place to try. Edward B Meuller Company would be a good place to try, in Reading Ohio, you can give them a call if you are not close; they have a commercial side and retail side https://muellerco.com/


I have been on both sides of tooling, so do what works for you.

Michael

 

[Bill Alston]

I have four or five boxes from my original stash of RCGT0602 inserts so I don’t need any more, but there is a guy over here selling some really cheap. They look like the slightly less sharp ones? They are made by Korloy, a well know insert manufacturer but I don’t know the full specification. I may buy a selection of sizes to see what they’re like as I need a RCGT10 anyway. On my list for when I get back from vacation.