Young begining turner

[Dean Center]

This past week end, I had the pleasure of working with a young relative who is dying to get into wood working, especially turning. She has a "plastic" lathe at home with about 3" between centers and has been understandably frustrated. Her dad wasn't aware that the tools needed to be sharpened. Ever.

Most of my beginner experience has been with high school aged students and I would appreciate some feed back from those of you who have worked with younger kids. This one is 9 years old and a little small for her age.

She made good progress during our two sessions, but tended to get into trouble with coarse vibration, the gouge bouncing and sometimes even off the tool rest, with the expected result of rough and hard to control cutting. We worked hard on the A part of Anchor, Bevel, then Cut. When I would press the tool more firmly into the tool rest for her, things would smooth out. I would usually also steady the handle at the same time, so I'm not sure exactly what might have been beneficial. (I tried hard not to actually make the cuts, but simply to stabilize things so she could do it)

Thinking about the session and her tool use, I came away with 2 questions:

1. Are some kids just not quite strong enough to adequately anchor the tool?

2. I made her a box to stand on, but we had a hard time getting all her parts at a good height at the same time. If she held the very end of a typical spindle gouge handle, she looked like David Ellsworth with his extra long hollowing tool. If she grasped the handle closer to the lathe, she still looked awkward and unable to use her bigger shoulder muscles to steady the tool. Are kids' proportions different enough from grown ups that simply raising their feet to achieve the traditional elbow-at-centerline height doesn't adequately address body positioning? If so, how do you get them arranged to best advantage?

Thanks to all of you who have worked with youngsters of this age.

 

[hockenbery]

Dean,
All kids are different. We never encountered a child that could not ride the bevel but our classes began at age 10 although we did take one 8 year old who turned like a demon making his gavel head a 1/2 in diameter before we noticed. Elbow height works fine for kids. A Lower lathe height is better than higher they can turn ok at waiste level but not ok at eye level.

In teaching a kid of any age to ride the bevel with a spindle gouge I can usually give them enough of an assist by using a finger to press the tool to the tool rest or by holding the end of the tool handle in my fingers. My guess is holding the tool too tightly and/or pressing the bevel too hard on the wood.

The finger on the tool can adjust the tool position to ride the bevel and eliminates bounce. As the student is getting the feel I reduce the pressure until the student has all the control.
Then remove the finger.
Holding the end of the tool handle between. My thumb and first two fingers I cand move the tool tip a lot. It makes the student untighten their grip so I can move the tool a bit while they are holding it. Again repeated cuts eventually giving over too the student.

Biggest limitation we found in general with young kids is range of motion and hand strength.
Range of motion makes it difficult for them to hollow a bowl by swinging the gouge across the lathe bed. Hand strength keeps them from pressure fitting a box lid to turn it because they can't get it off. These are the same limitations of elderly turners.

We concentrated on spindle projects. Tops, whistles, key chains, gavels, napkin rings, pens, string puzzles, small boxes ( loose lids & drilled the openings)

Our teaching technique was to cover safety, use a warm up block to practice the cuts needed for the project, and then turn the project. Also take a break from actual turning every 30 minutes.

First project was always spinning tops. We did them on 2" faceplates.
Practice block was a 2" square 3" long between centers. Teacher rounds the first one. The student uses a spindle gouge to make a cove in the center,
Tool on the tool rest, bevel on the wood not cutting, raise the handle turn the tool toward the cut until the edge is cutting, make the cut. They make the cove wider and deeper. The goal being a steep cove on each side connected with a cylinder the diameter of a pencil.
This is all the cuts and parts of the top. Left side is the cove to the spinning tip, right side and cylinder is the top and handle.
The have done every thing need to make a top and gotten lots of repeated cove cuts accomplished.
Now for the top. ( we usually introduce the roughing gouge in class 2 but you could easily do it here) Turn the tip, use chatter tool and colored markers for decoration. Introduce the parting tool have them practice on the waste part of the handle. Make a parting cut to define the edge of the rim for the top. Begin the cove bevel on the edge of the rim cut by the parting tool raise the handle roll the tool make the cove. The cove becomes the handle. While the handle is about a 1/2" thick do chatter work and marker colors. Refine the handle. Student uses parting tool to cut off the handle while an instructor holds the top to catch it.
Then let the student do a couple more tops.

Second project introduces spindle roughing gouge and the bead. So the warm consist of
Roughing a row of beads, roughing. Half coves have beads...then a whistle.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Curious when/how you teach a youngster to "turn from the ankles" as my Main Mentor puts it. There have been many times when I thought I was using my body, tool anchored to the hip, to move a skew, for instance, only to be told (or to realize) I was using my hands too much and not steadying the tool on my hip or side. Same with bowl work -- often I catch myself with too much hand interference, go back to the body doing the movement, and suddenly things get easier! After our Eric Loftstrom presentation, inner voice coaches "shoulders level, firmly spread base with the feet, shift your weight!" All of it helps!

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Make sure hair is back, up, out of the way. Maybe some smaller tools would help, even a small set of carbide tools for the instant gratification.

Glad she is getting to explore her interest with an experienced hand.

 

[Dean Center]

Al,
Thanks for the comments. We start the high schoolers with the SRG on a square blank and I did with this youngster as well. Should have started with a cylinder, as you suggest. More interesting stuff to try prior to fatigue setting in. Great suggestion.

Jamie,
Very important points, and what I have to keep reminding our students of until they graduate and can't hear me nagging any more.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Jamie,
Very important points, and what I have to keep reminding our students of until they graduate and can't hear me nagging any more.

Your post had me wondering how (or if) to teach a small 9-year-old to use his/her body when turning, given the ergonomics of a large lathe and long tools. Quite the challenge. I am always impressed with instructors who can assist and guide a new turner in the way that Al describes, just a touch of the finger on the tool to get the right feel across. One of my grandsons wants to turn, he'll be 10 soon, and I'm hoping I'll be able to be that clever in a few months. So far, I've only helped him apply Sharpies to tops.

 

[AnnHerbst]

Jamie,
Portland will be in two years. Your grandson will be a perfect age to enjoy the symposium via the youth room, instant gallery and a few rotations. I took twins about that age to the last
Portland AAW symposium. The nephew had a great time, the niece was ok. I had done a bit of turning with them before the trip, but they still enjoyed starting with Bonnie Kline's beginners class.
Have fun.
Ann

 

[hockenbery]

Ditto what @AnnHerbst said.
The AAW youth program provides a free symposium admission.
Also there is a drawing in which the 25 lucky students win a lathe, Chuck, and the tool used in the classes.
Plis youth table in the instant galley.

Prior turning experience is not necesary but most of the youth have had some time on the lathe with their adult sponsor.
Each class is made possible with 12-13 assistant instructors helping the instructor.

Bring a youth, donate 90 minutes of your time to help teach.

Al