Wet wood

[John Walls]

I now have a hatred of turning wet maple! Rounding it, no problem. Trying to make a box with it..... grrrrr, I went through a lot of wood today. I know it is more than likely my inexperience, but, grrrrrr!! I don't have a scraper like I see being used in the videos so I use what I have, a 1/2 inch bowl gouge.... holy cow when that thing grabs.... hold on for dear life!! Scraper should be here friday... LOL I am going to drive my wife nuts watching more videos tonight.... hehehe I turned a piece of dry oak firewood into a fairly nice handle for another gouge I ordered. Came out fairly nice so I know that wet stuff does not like me.

All I have to say.... I gotta take a class. Darn Corvid! With both us having health problems, we are on lockdown by order of the kids.

 

[Mike Johnson]

John,

Once you understand why the gouge catches you will have your first awakening in the use of the lathe tools. Everyone has problems with each tool until they master the proper use of each tool and you learn the do's and don'ts of each tool type. Turning bowls and getting those nasty tool catches is a common problem for every new turner. Doing some spindle turning can provide tool time without the nasty bowl catches, you can still get a catch turning on a spindle but they aren't as nasty as the bowl catches. Turning on a spindle can provide the experience needed on how the tools work with the contours of the work piece making the cuts down hill or up hill. Using a skew on a spindle piece is a good learning experience which will display how the skew works perfect until you go past the 90 degree mark and the tool digs into the work piece. Many turners don't use a skew because of this, once you understand what the issue is with each tool they all become a tool you can use in your arsenal of lathe tools. Start with the basics and get comfortable with each tool before you try the difficult projects. Sharp tools are another learning curve for most new turners, sharp tools are easy to use, dull tools are frustrating to use.

 

[Dean Center]

If you want to get a precise fit on the lid of a box, you have to make it with fully dry wood.

If you think you can get a bad catch with a bowl gouge, wait til you take a big ol' scraper and apply it to spinning wood incorrectly. BTW John, in case you haven't heard, never ever use a SPINDLE roughing gouge on a bowl (or other face/flat/side grain oriented wood).

 

[Richard Coers]

The material is never the problem with catches, if anything it should cause less issues since it peels so nicely. Hopefully you found a video by Richard Raffan for making boxes. He roughs them out and lets them dry first.

 

[hockenbery]

Green wood is almost always easier to turn than dry.

Be aware of the Grain orientation, tool presentation, and tool rest height.
If the wood can drive down into the cutting edge it will and that will be a catch

The most effective cuts are cross cuts - cutting into face grain or side grain or some mix of the two.
Avoid Ripping cuts cutting into endgrain

Hollowing an endgrain box is best done by not cutting into the end grain.

a glen Lucas tip- draw a line in the bottom center of the gouge flute with a red sharpie.
On the push cut role the gouge up slightly keeping the red hidden. If you can see the red it is a catch position.
note - there are pull cuts and other advanced cuts where seeing the read is fine.

 

[John Walls]

Bookmarked those videos to watch later, thanks. I'm only doing green maple at the moment for practice, not boxes to keep. I finally received a part I needed and a new blade for my bandsaw so I can start cutting up some large pieces of dry oak/elm/ash firewood.

Question, does anyone know what piss-elm does in turning? I have a few down'd trees, made a mistake of burning this stuff once, was warned by my better half I better not do that again.... LOL, guess why? I ask because this wood has a lot of red in it, how would that do? Would the smell continue? Would it give a nice figure/character if it does not smell like the dog nailed it? One tree has lots of, don't think they are burls, but big knot overgrowths? Would that make for a nice figured turn or is this rookie asking for trouble?

 

[Richard Coers]

Bookmarked those videos to watch later, thanks. I'm only doing green maple at the moment for practice, not boxes to keep. I finally received a part I needed and a new blade for my bandsaw so I can start cutting up some large pieces of dry oak/elm/ash firewood.

Question, does anyone know what piss-elm does in turning? I have a few down'd trees, made a mistake of burning this stuff once, was warned by my better half I better not do that again.... LOL, guess why? I ask because this wood has a lot of red in it, how would that do? Would the smell continue? Would it give a nice figure/character if it does not smell like the dog nailed it? One tree has lots of, don't think they are burls, but big knot overgrowths? Would that make for a nice figured turn or is this rookie asking for trouble?

Turns great, no odor when dry. It's a course grain, but very stable. The most common tree to have burls on it around me.

 

[robo hippy]

The elm is a great wood for chair seats because of the inter locking grain.

If you are going to do boxes, you need a whole different set of tools and tool rests. Well, you can adapt some of what you have.... You can use a drill to remove a chunk of the inside, but scrapers work better for me. There is a weird upside down cut that I have seen used where the gouge is on the high side. Didn't like that one at all....

robo hippy

 

[John Walls]

I've been watching a lot of box videos, I like them so I will work on them for a while. I have a 3/4" curved scraper and a drill chuck coming. Dug through the firewood in the house, came up with some red oak and ash to practice on for a while. I think the rest that came with my lathe is way to long, I will look for shorter ones later. Right now I think I need to practice and learn the tools I have. The spindle gouge is fun, I am getting used to it but I see some limitations for it, atleast at my experience level.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Always good to have some Elm wood in your wood stash, some of it has a funky smell when turning green depending on the soil it grows in.

 

[Dean Center]

End grain hollowing is one of the more challenging turning tasks for beginners. Oak, ash and elm are all relatively 'unfriendly' woods, compared with say, alder, cherry, or aspen. If you're just practicing and don't care about the results, some of the poplar/cottonwood might work pretty well. The local lumber yard might have some 8/4 alder at an acceptable price, which could be cut into 2"X2" spindle or box blanks. Alder is my favorite wood to start our high schoolers on--it tends to be smooth, cuts well, and doesn't fight back like some of the harder woods. Early Success!

 

[Dave Landers]

There is a weird upside down cut that I have seen used where the gouge is on the high side. Didn't like that one at all.

Someone (I don't remember who) that demonstrated for our club recently called that cut a "party trick"

 

[robo hippy]

For first boxes, don't go more than about 3 inches total finished height and maybe 2 inch diameter. You can do a lot of forms from that size, and they are easier to see the bottom of... I always rough turn them and let them sit till dry because wood that thick is not at equilibrium, which means it isn't all the same moisture level. Tape top and bottom together so you don't get them mixed up... Look at Jimmy Allen's web site for some box form ideas. I do consider box turning to be a fairly simple beginning to getting into hollow forms, which of course requires another set of tools.... But hollowing tools can be used on boxes too...

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

There is a weird upside down cut that I have seen used where the gouge is on the high side.

I first saw this back hollowing cut done by Richard Raffin.
I would classify it as something for very advance turners.
A super quick hollowing method that leaves a fairly smooch surface.

After making a small opening in the center the technique is made up of two parts.
you ride the bevel on the left side of the of the interior not cutting until you pick up the cut near the bottom of the opening and cut to bottom center deepening the opening. As you reach bottom center roll the tool clockwise push down on the handle and pull the cutting edge of the gouge toward the rim.

one of the cool thing is that the shaving shoot out the mouth of the opening.

 

[John Walls]

For first boxes, don't go more than about 3 inches total finished height and maybe 2 inch diameter. You can do a lot of forms from that size, and they are easier to see the bottom of... I always rough turn them and let them sit till dry because wood that thick is not at equilibrium, which means it isn't all the same moisture level. Tape top and bottom together so you don't get them mixed up... Look at Jimmy Allen's web site for some box form ideas. I do consider box turning to be a fairly simple beginning to getting into hollow forms, which of course requires another set of tools.... But hollowing tools can be used on boxes too...

robo hippy

I spent the afternoon sizing some blanks, they should come out about that size. Mix of wet maple, dry elm and oak. Most are 5-6 inches long, 3 to 4 inches square. This should get me some good practice on small boxes, now to get the basement another coat of primer so I can go have some fun!

 

[Roger Wiegand]

Isn't a hook tool the classic way to hollow end grain boxes? I made on in a class long ago and it worked very well and quickly, unfortunately it broke on a stupid catch and I haven't made a new one. Curious with all the gimmicky tools available out there that no one has re-discovered, re-branded and re-marketed this one as the hot, new, latest, and greatest. I'd buy one!

My introduction to hollowing boxes was a workshop with Richard Raffin. Not knowing any better I thought the back hollowing cut was normal and the way you did it. Didn't seem particularly difficult at the time. (My uncle, the physicist, thought it was really important to teach kids real math before the teachers got to them and convinced them it was difficult. Hence I had a pretty good grasp of things like logarithms and calculus basics when I was in the 4th grade. This cut may be like that-- learn it before you know it's hard and it's not so hard.)

I haven't made boxes in a while, seems like something to get back to.

 

[John Walls]

Is a 3/4" Robert Sorby #824H Round/Side Cut Scraper (from Amazon) what you are calling a hook?

 

[Roger Wiegand]

No. A cutting tool, not a scraper. Like this:

 

[Timothy White]

Here’s a link. https://woodturningtoolstore.com/.

 

[hockenbery]

Isn't a hook tool the classic way to hollow end grain boxes? I made on in a class long ago and it worked very well and quickly, re-branded and re-marketed I'd buy one!

My introduction to hollowing boxes was a workshop with Richard Raffin. Not knowing any better I thought the back hollowing cut was normal and the way you did it. Didn't seem particularly difficult at the time.

1. Quite a few turners demonstrate the use of the hook tool and there are several available on the market. I see @Timothy White points you to on-ramp I have used.

2. surprising how simple things are when you are taught to do them correctly.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I hadn't ever really looked for one, now I see that one can buy them. My last conversation about them was last summer with Alan Lacer, who was indeed demonstrating it. His response about availability was "it's easy, just make one." Since I really don't enjoy long sessions with the grinder (though plunging red hot steel into oil is a lot of fun) I may well acquire one of the commercial offerings.

I do wish I'd learned to use the skew when I was in the 4th grade and didn't know better. "Skew boot camp" with Alan helped a lot on that front.

 

[hockenbery]

I hadn't ever really looked for one, now I see that one can buy them. My last conversation about them was last summer with Alan Lacer, who was indeed demonstrating it. His response about availability was "it's easy, just make one." .

I have seen Alan’s demo too.... easy for him.
Also easy for my friend Ted Smith.
I was over at Ted’s house a couple years ago. I mentioned being disappointed that I missed his demo on the hook tool. Ted picked up a cut concrete nail said he show me and 7 minutes later gifted me a finished and sharpened hook tool tip.

 

[John Walls]

That hook looks dangerous! I think I have a few of those in my tackle box. I'd love to see a demo with that weapon. There is a demo on that web site, interesting tool! It's so small compared to the rest of my tools, would that last many sharpening sessions? It actually looks like it would be fairly easy to make.

 

[Richard Coers]

That hook looks dangerous! I think I have a few of those in my tackle box. I'd love to see a demo with that weapon. There is a demo on that web site, interesting tool! It's so small compared to the rest of my tools, would that last many sharpening sessions? It actually looks like it would be fairly easy to make.

You made me laugh John. "That looks fairly easy to make" Most would say that about turning wet maple into a box!

 

[Dean Center]

I have made and used several hook tools and like them, but a Hunter tool is WAY better, in my opinion. John, once hook tools are made you generally hone them to restore the edge rather than sharpening.

 

[hockenbery]

I agree with @Dean Center on using the Hunter.
On small item like boxes you are better off just using the hunter and maybe a spindle gouge.

if I’m doing a small goblet. I open up the cup with a spindle gouge to depth and then smooth the surface with a hunter #4.

if I were doing something larger like a vase. I would use the hook tool to remove the wood and maybe for the finish cut on the inside wall if it is cutting cleanly. The hook tool is much like cutting with a gouge from the bottom center to the rim. It can leave a very nice surface. I might try improving the surface with a Hunter.

hook tools and ring tools are really fast a hollowing larger openings. And they are cutting tools.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The hook tool is a commonly used production tool in other countries around the world, the Russian dolls which require a lot of hollowing use this tool.
There are a number of videos on YouTube showing the use of these tools making the Russian dolls and other hollow forms.
Another similar tool is the Robert Sorby "Termite" tool which is a ring style cutter which can be used for hollowing.end grain.
The ring tool works if you control the feed rate of the cut, get too aggressive and the tool will plug up with shavings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtFC4_UaPzI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZKhYOm3i7o

 

[John Walls]

Interesting videos. I'm going to tell my wife ya'll are to blame for my wall of tools.... ROFLMAO

 

[robo hippy]

One of the tools I need to experiment with, I think. I do remember the Oneway Termite tool, which was a small ring tool that was sharpened with a grinding bit in a router. That one in the video above is pretty big. Might have to try the Hunter tools as well....

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Interesting videos. I'm going to tell my wife ya'll are to blame for my wall of tools.... ROFLMAO

Get you wife involved too.

My wife, Sherry, is a terrific turner and understands the value of tools.
We have “our” tools and “her” tools.