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Versaflo M-407

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by Emiliano Achaval, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I found a brand new 3M Versaflow M-407 on Ebay for $149. Also found a new Breathe Easy unit for $79 , 3 new filters for $25. The M-407 comes with a shroud that goes over your shoulders. I also purchased M-937 the Faceseal so I could take out the shroud and use it with a faceseal. I tried it on today and I believe I wont be taking the shroud off, looks like a dream come true, no more shavings going down your collar!! My question is how come we don't see more woodturners using this model? Am I the only one bother by shavings in your underwear at the end of the day? Maybe I can see getting a little hot, but I hope not... I will be reporting next week on how it feels... Meanwhile I would like to hear if somebody is using one... Aloha
    @AlanZ
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
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  2. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    What is the M-407? Does it have a faceshield rated for impact?
     
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  3. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, rated for impact, and fire retardant, so now I can turn exotics and wont have to worry about the hot shavings, lol. Monday I will have the Breathe Easy unit, can't wait....

    78d10f5d5610f961efc3d78088fc4804.jpg
     
  4. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    Way too hot to wear in my shop in the summer.
     
  5. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    That’s what I’m afraid of, but we do not have hot muggy days like you guys... For now I will try it like this...
     
  6. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    There is about 10 CFM of ambient air coming through the unit so it isn't as if it were a closed system building up heat. I wear my 3M Airstream in the summer when I'm turning in the sun and there is enough air flow to keep it from building up heat. I grew up in Houston so I appreciate the effect that high humidity has which can be much more significant than high temperature. Just being outdoors during the summer in Houston without even doing any work was enough to become completely drenched in sweat. I didn't know that it was humid until I was in the Army and experienced really dry weather while stationed in Kansas. When I returned home it felt like going into a sauna. My wife says that some parts of Tennessee are very humid especially close to Memphis. So, probably nothing would be comfortable under hot and humid conditions.
     
  7. AlanZ

    AlanZ Resident Techno Geek

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    I had no doubt that you would like the helmet. The reason more folks don't buy that model? Easy... just look at the retail price. You got a very good deal.
     
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  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    @AlanZ I would like your opinion if threads like his would belong in Health & Safety? I am inclined to think so, but I need a sanity check. If so, I will move it over there.
     
  9. AlanZ

    AlanZ Resident Techno Geek

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    I think it should stay here for a little while, to give it the most visibility. Then, when the discussion dies down a bit, move it to health and safety where it really belongs.
     
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  10. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Health & safety looks like a good place for this to go internet oblivion...
     
  11. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks, Alan. I will also leave a permanent redirect when it is moved so that it will still be seen in the Woodturning Discussion Forum.
     
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  12. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Makes sense Bill. I have traveled thru the South in the Summer, Georgia, SC, NC, man, that was so hot, like a steam bath some days... I also lived in Palm Springs a few years, 100 is a cool day in the summer. Maui is Paradise, never gets too hot or too cold. I should be fine with the shroud...
     
  13. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    @Emiliano Achaval it bothers me to hear that members might be skipping over that forum. I read every new post so maybe I was being naive to assume that other forum members do the same. Believe it or not, most threads in that forum are worth reading Moving a thread there isn't quite like sending it into the Black Hole of Calcutta because I can still leave a permanent redirect when I move a thread to a different forum. This means that you would still see a link in its original forum.
     
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  14. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Bill, to be honest, I have skipped over that forum. Only if something comes up when I do a search, something specific that I'm looking for, I go and see it. I love to check the for sale forum, and now I have been checking the AAW forum. I know you are an experienced turner, would be foolish to discount what you are saying, I believe you are right, and I should make it a habit of checking it. I'm guilty of not always looking at the other ones, like the newbies forum, I think us experienced turners should go there often to see if we can help a fellow turner that's getting started... Do you have stats? An analytics page? Can you tell how many people check what?
     
  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm sure that those particular stats would be possible, but XenForo hasn't made that available. It might possibly be available in version 2.X, but upgrading would be a big deal because of major changes in the software. In vBulletin it was possible to even see the names of who viewed individual threads.

    I presume that you meant to say "AAW Information" forum where you said "AAW Forum". Since you are an AAW member that particular forum has always been visible to you, but now we are making it visible to everyone. It is a part of the outreach program to attract new members. In the past, the forum has been sort of like a stepchild, not receiving much attention from the AAW, but now it is being considered a valuable asset.
     
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  16. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    You mean to tell me that everyone does not read all new posts??? What a shame lots of info and help opportunities are missed that way.
     
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  17. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    The forum really does depend on the help that you , Emiliano, and all the other very knowledgeable and helpful people provide that makes this a great resource for sharing information and helping beginners. I would like to encourage all forum members to read new threads and share what you have learned with new woodturners. At one time or another other people helped each one of us ... now it's our turn to pay it forward.
     
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  18. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    You probably saw by now that I left my fingerprints all over the forum yesterday. I was checking them all again... Aloha...
     
  19. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, I did notice a massive increase in seismic activity with an epicenter in Maui and was bracing for a tsunami of posts.
     
  20. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Bill, we have to stop meeting like this, if you are going to Portland, a proper introduction is in order, beer is on me.
     
  21. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Today I was able to put all of my Ebay pieces together and I was able to work all day with the Versaflow M-407. I got lucky, the Breathe Easy unit is absolutely brand new. The seller said it was, but that he couldn't claim that due to some Ebay rule. The air flow is amazing, way more than the Airstream. Visibility is superior. I walked to my large shed to cut some logs, I got a little hot walking and using the chainsaw. But in the studio, no problem. Like @Bill Boehme said the air flow keeps things cool. I didnt start wearing these 3M helmets capriciously, I had a 100% sinus blockage that almost required surgery. I never considered not turning, I knew a solution to my problems was out there, I have definitely found it. The Airstream is a great helmet, but the Versaflow, this one with the shroud is a few steps above. I purchased 2 set of filters for the Breath Easy. I do not know how long they are going to last, and I dont know if they are the right choice. I will post a picture of them. Maybe @AlanZ can help me with this. What are the best breathe easy filters out there? How long do they last for someone that turns 7 days a week? My first impression is the M-407 is: this a great helmet, I would not hesitate to recommend this to anybody that is looking for the ultimate piece of PPE. More to come as I keep using it and getting more confortable with it. My helmet came with the visor protector, do not use any helmets without this, somehow CA always finds its way to it. I ordered a case of them, I change them often...
     

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  22. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Versaflow_1.jpg A view of the M-407
     
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  23. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    How could I forget to talk about the noise, or lack of it! You can hear the motor/blower of course, but I think that it's about 50% quieter than the Airstream. Maybe even 60%. @Bill Boehme I don't know why there are 2 pictures above this post. Please delete one. If I click edit, I only see one picture... :confused:
     
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  24. Don C Davis

    Don C Davis

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    This is interesting info Emiliano, I appreciate it--I am hideous about not wearing anything but a faceshield-and often an RZ Mask--do you guys feel it is a step forward to invest in a unit like a Trend Airshield or one of these 3M units like Emiliano is telling us of or something else???
     
  25. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Looks good, "Darth" Emiliano. :D

    You made out like a bandit. Retail would be about $1600 or more.

    What battery are you using? Is it the BP-15? Is a special hose required to connect the Versaflo helmet to the Breathe Easy turbo unit?

    My helmet is supposed to arrive tomorrow, but so far I haven't spotted any acceptable deals on the other stuff that I need.
     
  26. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I believe it is a big step forward to invest in a respirator helmet... One should buy according to their needs and budget.
     
  27. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm using the 3M expensive battery that also works with the Airstream. The hose came with a plastic piece at the end, I had to remove it, didn't fit the Versaflow, but the rubbery hose fits perfect over the coupling. I secured it with a zip tie.... Super happy with my savings, I ordered all the things I need to start doing Hibrid blanks since I had extra money, lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  28. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I found this matrix on the 3M site which you might find useful. If you ever need another hose, the BE-324 adapts the Breathe Easy turbo unit to the Versaflo helmets. I hadn't thought about using my Airstream battery with the Breathe Easy turbo blower, but that would cut the cost quite a bit. I had been under the assumption that the batteries for the Breathe Easy were higher voltage than the Airstream battery, but I can't find any information on that. Maybe @AlanZ has some information on battery voltage.
     
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  29. AlanZ

    AlanZ Resident Techno Geek

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    Bill, as far as I know, the AirStream and BreathEasy units use the same or compatible batteries. There was some differences in certification of some units with niCad vs niMH batteries, but they are all 4.8 volt sources, they can also use the single use lithium batteries (typically used by first responders)
     
  30. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I suppose that it must be related to industrial safety certification. They show two batteries that can be used with the Breathe Easy system:
    • The intrinsically safe non-rechargeable first responder battery with the blue label, BP17IS
    • The NiMH with the yellow label and green racing stripe, BP15 which requires the discontinued BC-210 charger
    It's funny that the BP15 battery is available, but the charger isn't. I couldn't figure why the Airstream battery (520-01-02) which is intrinsically safe couldn't be used with the Breathe Easy unless the voltage was different. But knowing government regulations, I can see that if a certain configuration was certified to meet some set of requirements then they don't have to freedom to make substitutions regardless of the obvious.

    All this thinking and trying to make sense of something where sense may not exist has given me a headache. :D
     
  31. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    @Bill Boehme Well, I had a chance to do the test that has had me wondering and laughing at the same time for a while. The 3M filters are very efficient at stoping all wood dust. However, the do not stop any volatile gases. As far I can tell the only solution for survival is walk away upwind and inmediatly open the front visor for some fish air... On another note, after only 2 days of turning, there was some visible dust on the filters, there is an opening that you can see inside. They come with a plug that needs to be removed. So, I clean them up with my Fein vacuum. I believe daily cleaning will extend the life of these 3 filters. My Breath Easy unit came with a little flow meter device, It's too small to fit in any of the openings, not sure how and where do you measure the flow. Nor do I know what's the acceptable airflow... Will have to investigate a little...
     
  32. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Hepa filters are not impermeable to gases, you would need a charcoal filter for that. Also most sources say hep filters should not be vacumed or brushed. @Bill Boehme will probably respond to this and correct me if incorrect
     
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  33. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

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    Are you referring to any odoriferous emissions in the pelvic/air filter area? :D :rolleyes:
     
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  34. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    There are a variety of filters available and I think that there might be one that will block sulfur fumes, but I don't recall if it will block methane fumes. :eek: A high powered fanny fan placed close to the source of the air pollution might be the best solution. :D

    There are a bunch of printed instructions and videos on the 3M site that should tell you how to use the flow tester. I think that it is used somewhere inside the helmet.

    Gerald, the HEPA element is safely inside the filter and the outside is a pre filter so it won't hurt to clean the dust off with a vacuum cleaner.
     
  35. AlanZ

    AlanZ Resident Techno Geek

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    Emiliano, there are several filter types for the BreatheEasy, including some that block volatile organic compounds (VOC). It's a go to item for first responders.
     
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  36. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I received my Versaflo M-407 today. It came with a large instruction book so I will need to spend some time perusing it. I might remove the heat shroud if I can figure out how that is done. Now I need to search for a Breathe Easy turbo unit.
     
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  37. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Looks like the shroud fits into a channel, I got the face seals for it, there is a groove around the faceseal that slips in where some of the shroud goes... Glad I can vacuum the filters..
     
  38. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    It's sort of a challenge to get your head through the outer and inner shrouds and then get every thing lined up. I might think about downgrading to the M-300 configuration if I can figure out the parts that I need.
     
  39. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Only thing I don't like is that the shroud won't let you reach your ears easily to adjust or take out your earphones... I have enjoyed not having chips under my collar.... In the summer I might have to take the shroud off if it gets too hot...
     
  40. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    The AAW smock does a great job of keeping chips from going down the collar and it's cool enough to wear in the Texas summer. I was wondering if you still felt that it is necessary to use hearing protection.
     
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