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turning the corner hollowing

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by hu lowery, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    The title pretty much says it all, I'm having a hard time getting a smooth transition from wall to floor of the bowl with a gouge. A scraper works pretty well but I'm trying to handle the gouge better. One issue seems to be the length of my tool and the swing of my lathe. with the spindle center just seven and a half inches above the bed and the top of the bed maybe another four off of the bench I can't drop the back of a gouge handle very far at all.

    Any tips appreciated or pointing me towards a good video of someone doing this. I have several videos that include hollowing but I haven't seen the right one to make things click for me yet apparently. I finished a decent bowl today, or would have been decent except for the last minute catches trying to clean up that transition resulted in two good sized catch marks without enough meat to clean them up.

    Besides a couple consigned to the burn pile I now have six bowls consigned to my wall of shame. Not really ashamed but I won't be selling or giving away any of these. I'm getting good local reaction to my bowls but they are still a far cry from where I would be happy with them.

    Hu
     
  2. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    I'm working on a video but don't have one yet. Most of the time when people have trouble with what we call the transition area, from side to bottom it's the shape of the bowl. If the sides are steep and it goes fairly quickly from side to bottom, you can't rub the bevel of the tool through this area. If your bowl has a nice gentle curve from lip to bottom you can maintain contact with the bevel of the tool all the way down.
    Some people grind a special tool with a much steeper grind so they can rub the bevel along the bottom of the bowl. If the bowl bottom really abruptly hits the side you might be able to turn from the center out to the corner to get these two areas to meet.
    You should not have to lower the handle to complete this cut. You can cut with the handle lower, some do, but it's not necessary and doesn't necessarily keep the bevel in contact with the bowl. I do find that occasionally you can rotate the flute up a little more and rub the bevel where it won't when it's facing 45 degrees. This usually only gains a little.
     
  3. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Like John said this is a lot easier on a continuous curve from rim to bottom.

    Start with bowls 3 times as wide as high. This is a very functional shape
    Use a blank 11 x 4.5. This will yield a bowl 10.5 x 3.5
    Make a continuous curve from foot to rim on the outside match the curve on the inside
    Turn 5-10 'other these

    Then try hemispherical bowls those twice as wide as high with a spherical curve these are always pleasing to the eye

    Most of my bowl students,have a much easier time hollowing than shaping the outside.
    But then they have had all the learning on the outside.

    The hollowing begins with the tool handle away from you unsupported.
    As you pull the handle toward you you must feed the tool over the tool rest.
    If you have your front hand wrapped around the tool this will be very hard to do.
    I either have the tool between my thrum and for ginger or my open hand on top of the tool.
    As the handle comes into contact with my body I then shift my weight and rotate to continue the cut to bottom center.
    At center I slow down and try to catch the little nub in the flute. I seldom catch it but it forces me to slow the cut, go to dead center, and not dig a hole.

    Through all of this riding the bevel is essential.
    When you come off the bevel the nose of the gouge digs in and your brain pulls it back and you get a washboard effect.
    Also as you come around the curve you are cutting more into the end grain which is harder so you must slow down.
    I usually slow down and take this cut in two passes.

    Work safe,
    Al
     
  4. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    John gave me an idea. My first youtube video. Carl gave me a DVD from a demo I did on gouges for Tri-county wood turners in February.
    In the demo I turned a small bowl to finish green, showed sharpening, and turned a scoop. Jan did an excellent job on the video. The camera switcher took a snooze a couple of times. Also the sound is a little iffy We have a speaker for the audience but the camera has to pick put the sound to record it.
    the speaker is sort marginal. But I think you can see how I hollow a bowl quite well.

    With my limited video skills I cut the hollowing part into a clip for youtube.

    Note in the beginning I hold the tool with my hand around it because I will cut through the center hole used on a screw chuck and I don't want any bounce when I come into the hole. Once that is gone I open my hand. I seldom turn bowls on screw chucks but for this demo I wanted something quick and the demo was about gouges not bowls.

    Maybe this will help you see what I tried to explain in the earlier post.

    http://youtu.be/flw8LwQqGQU

    Work safely,
    Al
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  5. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    Thanks, and a little more information

    First, I apparently caused some of my own grief as usual. I brought a decent grinder over here, variable speed Delta with a white wheel on one side and a decent rest, no jigs. I raked back the bevel(opposite of the flutes) on my square faced bowl gouge, apparently the opposite of what I should have done.

    I have been uncertain how important riding the bevel is too. One place says ride the bevel, to the extreme they recommend having gouges with grinds every five or ten degrees apart from thirty to sixty degrees. Another place seemed to say that riding the bevel wasn't important. I realize there are exceptions but would the consensus be, especially when hollowing, ride the bevel without a very specific reason not to?

    I have also had a little of an issue rounding the bottom corner of the bowl or vessel. An optical illusion for whatever reason, I don't have as wide a radius on a vessel or bowl when I turn it upright as I thought I had on the lathe. I think I'll make a quicky template out of just a piece of pasteboard or something, not to make all curves the same but to give me a standard reference indicating how steep my current curve is or isn't until my eyeballs get a bit more educated.

    These are low quality images I hadn't intended to post, light and cell phone issues, but this shows all six of my completed pieces, or those that died with enough surviving to photograph. The one with the huge chunk broken out was the result of a broken tenon also, ancient history though. The center bottom and stand alone image are the last bowl I turned. Sounds like the main issue with it may have been that I did myself in trying to lay the bevel back when it needed to remain the same or even come forward while laying the wings back.

    One thing to mention, I am using all natural wood blanks from stuff that was storm damaged or met an untimely end with a chainsaw for whatever reason. As such I do have to deal with cracks, knots, twisted grain, all of the usual advantages and disadvantages of green wood. A nice consistent store boughten blank would be nice to learn on but I'm bending my budget to the breaking point buying things that appear to be must have items, cutting corners on wood. My end goal is to focus almost all my efforts on green wood anyway so while it does complicate the learning process I do hope I am learning a little more too as I learn to deal with the obstacles in green wood.

    Al, many many thanks for the effort of posting a video for me. I have watched it, before the day is done I will have watched it at least three or four more times and studied it carefully.

    As always, thank you all for guiding me. A local mentor would be nice but I sure have a mighty fine bunch of long range mentors!

    Hu
     

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  6. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    in you photos stick to the top middle shape or bottom middle shape.
    with these you can ride the bevel when hollowing rim to bottom center.
    the bowl bottom center has a real nice shape. i would prefer the that the top center one had a continuous curve foot to rim it is sort flat on the bottom and straight down the sides. it will be easier to hollow with the curve.

    work safely,
    Al
     
  7. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Hu,
    I use almost all green wood for my bowls and hollow forms.
    I am selective.
    You can be selective too.
    Free wood comes in nice straight grain and knot free blanks. all my students turn green wood. My rule is to get at least one good blank from any section I cut or take for turning. if it has a knot it is because I selected the knot and plan to make it a feature. I often hollow through cat's eyes (healed limb scars) this gives elevation to rim to create a curved pitcher rim. Of course I sometime miss hidden stuff but 90% or more there are no surprises.

    the blank in the video came from a tree dump. i chose it for the demo because it was straight grain, crack free, and had been sitting around a while so the moisture content was down to 22% so the audience would not need raingear. I would actually prefer roughing fresh cut wood.

    Al
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  8. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    Thanks!

    Al,

    Your video helped and I watched a few more too. Just watched one that recommended a sixty degree bevel for turning that corner while riding the bevel with a moderately tight corner.

    Seems like the key is to be able to ride the bevel all the way though and make a continuous cut all the way across the bottom.

    It is supposed to rain tomorrow. If it holds off I might be able to get some turning in. I'll give my flat faced gouge another try. I have a flat faced tip for the ST2000 tool too, haven't checked the bevel angle on it.

    I did build a sharpening jig today. Turned a pretty nice Ellsworth style grind on my piece of round stock. Like most of my first tries though, I decided I don't really like it enough to use on good steel. I'll make another soon that will be the better for playing with this one.

    Thank you for your assistance, much appreciated!

    Hu
     
  9. dbonertz

    dbonertz

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    Hu,

    I agree with Al to stay with the two middle bowls until you get comfortable with what you are doing. If you have quite a bit of good wood then cut 10 to 15 bowl rounds. Form the outside of each one after the other, don't forget to put a tenon on them. Put them in a garbage bag until you have them all complete. After that you should be comfortable with turning the exterior. Then start on the interior one after the other but just rough turn them to about 10% of the diameter of the bowl. You won't need to worry about going through a wall or the bottom this way. Concentrate on your form, cuts and then smooth surface. After ten roughed out bowls you will become pretty comfortable with cutting both interior and exterior surfaces. The worst case scenario is you end up with 10 to 15 bowl blanks drying and will be ready to finish turn in a few months. Now go put a round on the lathe and turn it start to finish both outside and inside.

    Have fun.

    Dale
     
  10. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    sounds like good advice!


    Dale,

    Famous last words but I don't seem to have issues with turning the exterior, the interior goes pretty good until I try to work too tight of an interior curve. I deliberately use my roughing cuts as practice but still get into problems when I have made the corner too tight. One thing you may not have noticed is that I don't have a bowl tool rest at the moment so I am reaching a long ways past my tool rest trying to make some of these inside curves too. Makes for bigger catches when they do happen. I angle a long straight rest into the bowl with mixed results. This month's toy money is gone, hope to buy or build a bowl rest next month. I have plenty of one inch hot roll, no torch handy and like most of my stuff it is seventy miles away. The hot roll is a little soft and I will have to keep it polished but the price is right!

    I like the idea of turning ten bowl interiors one behind the other and think I will take that a step further and finish turn(here I am not referring to thickness but shape and surface finish) several "mini bowls" as I hollow out a bowl to final green size.

    I just went outside and snatched a half dozen green cherry log sections out of the rain, amazing how much lighter they are in just a week's time even with latex on the ends. Speaking of which, I'm turning under an open sided porch and a line of storms just arrived, may not turn today.

    Thank You for your advice!

    Hu
     
  11. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Save your money!

    Hu, if you concentrate on the shape wider than tall and make a nice curve like on ones in the center
    You can angle the tool rest down in the bowl.
    Reach over the tool rest is greatly decreased. I rarely use a curved tool rest.
    There is a good market for curved rests and some people like them.
    A lot of folks think the get in the way more than they help.

    Certainly of little value on a bowl under 12" diameter.
     
  12. dbonertz

    dbonertz

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    Again I agree with Al. I have two curved tool rests and they have there uses, but for bowls under 12" cut to the 1/3 (approximation) golden mean ratio they are not necessary. In my opinion you would better spend your money on a 5/8" or 3/4" bowl gouge. They won't vibrate as much while you learn that transition area and you will always have a good bowl gouge for roughing. Just my 2c.

    I believe you have the outside forming down, by what I see from the pics, but you need to rough the outside to do the inside so I mentioned it earlier. Practice some finishing cuts when roughing the bowl. Practice using your caliper or measuring device on the thicker rough bowl. Just because you're going to dry it and return it doesn't mean you can't get some good cutting practice in. Practice all of them roughing cut, scraping cut, slicing cut and shear scraping cut. Just for fun practice putting a bead on the outside or try a rim style and dry it that way. Once dry look at it to see if you still like it. People tend to look at roughing as a necessary evil but it truly is the best place to learn. Have fun.

    Dale

    Dale
     
  13. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    thanks again!


    A quick reply to Al first: Thanks once more! I will save my dollars. When I happen to be at my friend's machine and fab shop where my steel and aluminum is stored I'll have to play with making a tool rest or two but the cost will be zero other than what I have spent long ago. I kind of want to try an offset rest, 1/3 one side of the post, 2/3 the other side. I need to build an outboard rest, can no longer order one, and I'm thinking I will take advantage of two banjo's since this lathe had a duplicator with it when I bought it.


    Dale,

    As it happens all I have is 5/8" US call out gouges. Long story, didn't plan it that way. Bands of heavy rain passed through until early afternoon. I stepped out to survey the results when a little sun broke through and there was my cherry neatly stacked, except this one left over half section from when I turned the last bowl. I do plan to do a handful all outside and then do all the insides at the same time but this one lonely neglected piece of wood . . .

    I did exactly what you are talking about even though I was just roughing. Shaped and smoothed the outside carefully with my gouge then turned the bowl over and once the top was flattened I turned like I was turning a series of little bowls. I have some trouble slicing in to get started without the gouge running back, not sure what angle and rotation to hold the tool yet, so I cut in from the "rim" of the bowl wherever it was at the moment to create a shoulder for the bevel to ride. Then I ran from there to bottom center. I was able to do that for awhile no problem but got to where I was having difficulty with a smooth transition from a mostly pivot to a push stroke across the bottom. No issues rounding the bottom corner with the new bevel I cut on the gouge and in all fairness a couple of large knots did compound the issue cutting across the bottom. One bowl roughed and in a plastic bag full of shavings. I don't see paper bags around here anymore, guess I will buy a roll of craft paper and make my own.

    Speaking to everyone: A few words and Al's video were huge helps. I get a little better with every bowl. Most importantly at the moment, I am having fun. I miss it if I don't get to turn for a day.

    The help of everyone who has posted in my threads is greatly appreciated. I am miles further ahead than I would be without this assistance.

    Hu
     
  14. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    The problem is the corner. While every beginner does it, my opinion is that bowls should not have a corner (nor sidewall nor bottom) for a multitude of reasons including aesthetics, avoiding cracking during drying, and ease of turning. Use a curve that is in the neighborhood of either constant or monotonically changing (such as a parabolic curve), but not something that has identifiable transition points from one type of curve to another. Even when your eyes can't see a transition, your fingers can feel even the slightest discontinuity. You will have reached one level of bowl nirvana when you can't feel any transition. I don't particularly like rules dictating how something should look, but it is good to have at least some guidelines to validate our accomplishments.

    One more thing -- forget about a bowl rest. I have several that I almost never use. Regarding catches, until you develop good tool control, catches will happen regardless of the distance that a tool is hanging over the rest. When you turn a bowl with a curved bottom (as opposed to a bucket bottom), one end of a straight tool rest can be placed inside the bowl and there will be very little overhang.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  15. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    Good point and a little about catches



    Bill,

    Excellent point about the shape. I have used parabolic arcs in the design of a few things including pool cue shafts. The parabolic taper is hardly noticeable but makes for a far stiffer shaft. The inside of some of my pieces flows far better than others at this point in my turning, no question. I do have educated fingers from the body work. One issue is that I try to get a bigger finished piece out of the blank than is really there, one place standard shaped blanks would probably help. Simply accepting that there is a lot of wood in a log section or half section that ain't a bowl would help a bunch too. I'm sure I have plenty of flaws I don't recognize but even the flaws I recognize still have to be worked out. I have resisted drawing a bowl design before starting each piece but that would probably help a lot with my shapes.

    The last hat I wore before retiring was that of a draftsman and designer and I fear drawing would make turning feel too much like a job. Like many, I hope to make a stray dollar here and there from turning eventually but I don't want to make a full time job out of it or make it feel like one. I once knew a fantastic knife maker. He worked a full time job as an ironworker and as many hours or more a week making knives with a six month to year backorder. I asked him why he didn't make knives full time and he told me that he made about the same money at both pursuits but he loved making knives as a hobby. When he had tried doing it for a living it took all the fun out of making knives having to get up and make knives every morning. I want to be safe and turn out quality pieces. I also want to keep it fun. I'm trying to tread a pretty fine line I suspect.

    While I'm having fewer all the time I consider the occasional catch to be something that is going to happen at this point in my turning too. I'm trying new things and just plain making mistakes sometimes. When I do get a catch it seems to me that a shorter distance over the tool rest and sharper tool minimizes damage. Fortunately all my neighbors have four hooves and horns but I think I noticed a couple of them blushing when I ruined that nice bowl I had going when I had two big catches when I was about 90% or more finished turning.

    I do note the consensus that a bowl rest isn't needed. I'll make playing with tool rests a very low priority. That is taking away my machine shop play time though. Please don't tell me I don't need a vacuum chuck, it is in the design stages now! :D

    Thank you again for your help. I do read and study everything presented to me and it all helps tremendously. I will get where I hope to turning bowls and I will owe a big part of my success to you and the others on this forum. I have started bringing my laptop out to the table next to my lathe bench to have these words of wisdom close to hand while turning. I stop and read when I get to an area the thread helps with to remind me of what I need to do.

    Hu
     
  16. odie

    odie

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    In general, I like your thoughts on turning philosophy, Hu.....

    One thing that doesn't set well with me, when I apply it to myself, is the many people who want to make money from turning. I was of that persuasion myself, but have evolved to view turning from an entirely different level of perspective. If pursuit of money is the motivation, then the priorities aren't what is likely to produce a refined level of excellence......the two things are in conflict with one another on a philosophical level. You have to get to the point where the pursuit of excellence is the ONLY thing that matters, and completely ignore any thoughts of how profitable your efforts will be, or become. Once that consciousness is in priority, then both can be had, but not without developing a refined style and technique first. Some of the great impressionist artists lived in squalor most, if not all their lives......because their priorities were correct, but their harvest was in personal satisfaction. The motivation wasn't money.....it was enlightenment. This is something that is completely lost, or greatly depreciated, in our world of viewing success by how money influences that concept.

    (Back on topic) The interior of a bowl, is by far the most difficult area of any bowl. You probably have the best advice from others already. Using the bevel to steady the cut is the best way to proceed, at this point.

    I noticed this thread the other day and started to respond, but decided what I had to offer was not something a newbie should attempt, because of the risk factor. There is a technique of not employing the bevel at all, but using a reversing twisting motion through the axis of the gouge as it progresses through the cut. It is incredibly close to having a severe catch, but can be done with a great amount of practice and acute awareness. If done with precision, it will leave the best surface, free of any end grain tearout, and minimal of sanding. I am reluctant to try and explain the procedure on the forums, because it should only be attempted by the most acutely aware and experienced turners.

    ooc
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  17. dbonertz

    dbonertz

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    Hu,

    On your entry cut you say it is skating back. You stated you make a small cut to create a shoulder then turn the gouge to start down the side. That is a good idea as you're learning. Pay close attention to where the tool handle is pointing once you turn the gouge to go down the side. You will probably note that the handle is pointing farther over to the right than when you make that skating cut. What is happening is you are trying to cut down the side but you have the nose bevel pointing in a different direction than you want to cut thus causing the run back. Depending on your bevel angle will dictate how far over your handle when you start your cut.

    45 (anytime I suggest 45 degree it is an approximation or good starting point) degree is a good thing to remember. The flute should be about a 45 degree to the work piece when entering the inside bowl cut (a little less than that will make it less aggressive). 45 degree of the handle to the work piece when shear scraping. 45 degree on flute angle for roughing cut on the outside and inside. Some use what is called a 40/40 grind on gouges. But again 45/45 grind is a very good starting place. I personally use a 60 degree nose bevel angle so I can go through to the bottom of a bowl and I have more of a 45 degree on my wing bevel angle which gives me a sharper edge for shear scraping and a slicing cut off the wing (this new wing angle is an experiment for me right now - guess where I am practicing it ;)).

    You'll get there, keep having fun and don't get frustrated. We all have been where you are and we survived.
     
  18. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    I agree with Bill that an occasional catch will happen. they don't need to be part of the learning process and Lyle Jamieson had an excellent article on avoiding catches.
    go to the back journal s 11-1 pages 24-25.

    in teaching I found most catches occur from improperly sharpened tools.
    the edge of the gouge should be a continuous convex curve or dead flat.
    any dip or peak on the cutting edge is a catch maker. Second is positioning the tool so that the wood can drive onto the cutting edge. never let the wood drive down onto the tool.

    I occasionally have students that make it through a 30 hour beginner bowl class without experiencing a catch.
    I know I sure got a lot of them when I was teaching myself.

    work safely
    Al
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  19. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    my bevel is evolving


    My bevel angle is evolving at the moment. Too stingy to grind away the overlong bevel I had turned a few days ago in one shot. The goal is getting back to the short side of 45 degrees and adding slightly swept back wings from the dead square of the original grind. This tool will eventually have an Ellsworth grind or something very similar, I have the ST2000 tool with a new square tip and a raked back tip that I have to clean up when I get a jig made. Butchered it a bit when I tried to sharpen without a jig and I don't want to do any more damage.

    Let me confirm please, when you say a sixty degree angle you are talking about sixty degrees in relation to the line of the shaft of the tool? A very steep bevel with a thirty degree angle facing the wood?

    I'm not one to give up easily. It is somewhat unusual for me to ask for as much advice as I have turning wood when I start doing something. However, having turned a lot of metal I have a healthy respect for the dangers to myself, my tools and equipment, and my work area. Can't afford to badly bend or break anything right now so I'm trying to temper my usual hammer at something until it assumes the position I want approach with knowledge gained by others that you all have been so willing to share.



    Al,

    I will go read your reference information shortly but I have to admit I don't understand what you are trying to tell me in the bolded area. I am trying to remember that the wood is moving in an arc and as much as possible have the line of force going from the surface on the edge of the tool where it is actually cutting, down through the centerline of the tool shaft, and directly down into the tool rest. I'm used to fixed tool holders and far harder materials than wood or needing to cut as fast as possible in a production setting and I may be overthinking things and being too aware of angles and leverage. It seems to me that I am and always will be driving down onto the tool.

    I know I'm missing what you are trying to tell me, this is the kind of thing that can probably be shown in a few seconds but I'm not getting what you are trying to say.


    Odie,

    I much appreciate your post. I have seen examples of your beautiful work. I will send you a quick PM.

    Thank you all! I will become a decent woodturner. I'll become one much faster with the help given here. The assistance is genuinely hugely appreciated. My hands and my machine thank you too!:)

    Hu
     
  20. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Hu,

    The cutting edge of the gouge must be a continuous convex curve.

    Take a straight edge ( side of a pencil works fine)

    Put the tool handle on the lathe bed or bench so edge is at eye level
    Rotate the side on the pencil from one end of the sharpened edge to the other.
    The pencil should always touch in just one spot at a time. This is a convex curve

    Alternatively, It can also touch on all places at once for a flat edge profile( these work I prefer convex edges).

    If it touches two places with light in between you have either a dip between the two spots it touches or a bump on one or both places it touches.
    Dips and bumps will cause the tool to be uncontrollable when you roll it and you will get catches.

    My suggestion would be to put the ST2000 and it pieces in a safe place and bring them back out in 6 months.
    Not a tool you want to practice your sharpening on.

    Al
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  21. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    pretty much what I did with the ST2000


    Al,

    I had already quit using the ST2000 for awhile. Sounds like good advice not to butcher it. It had gotten a small nick and trying to grind it out without a jig resulted in a dip, the reason I quit using that tip and the tool. It has a multi-angle bevel, the wing angle is different from the nose and I had trouble shaping by hand.

    I do understand what you are saying about cutting surfaces, I ground a lot of high speed steel but it has been over ten years now I guess. Sold my metal lathe and mill with all the tooling. The machine shop I work in sometimes loves carbide. The owner moved from drafting and design to a little job shop when he retired and I don't know if he knows how to grind. Carbide is nice but it is also nice to be able to grab a piece of steel and make what you need on the spot when you don't have it.

    Thank you for the follow-up!
    Hu
     
  22. dbonertz

    dbonertz

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    Yes I am referring to 60 degrees from the line of the shaft or along the bottom of the flute. It creates about a 30 degree angle for the line of the handle when facing the wood to start an entry cut. In fact I just measured the flute angle and I need to adjust it since in now measures about 67 degrees. I will regrind it to 60 degrees. Thanks for questions since it made me check mine and the bevel angle is off a bit from where I want it.

    Don't be to stingy with the metal on your gouge because the only thing worse than wasting steel is getting catches because the steel isn't ground correctly.

    Keep up the good practice and have fun.
     
  23. hu lowery

    hu lowery

    Joined:
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    Location (City & State):
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    Thank You Again!



    Dale,

    This post does make very clear what you are talking about and that is what is sometimes needed with just words. Funny things happen with long distance support when you can't see what the other person is doing. Dangerous to assume anything so being crystal clear is appreciated.

    My bevel has reached from edge to edge of my steel with a few sharpenings. I need a higher grinder or to sit down to grind, I'm raising the butt of the gouge when I'm not very careful and having to touch up more than I should.

    I am having fun, whittling a little wet cherry today. I was supposed to have company that wanted to play a little so I needed to rough a piece a little for them, just peel off the bark and get past the interrupted cuts. They got tied up so I have to go finish roughing the bowl and get it in a bag of shavings. I don't mind at all!

    I'm learning a little more and getting a little better every day. Always fun to learn something new and this is something I hope to be doing for a lot of years. Thanks to all of you on this forum things are going well.

    Hu
     
  24. odie

    odie

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    I received a PM the other day from someone who felt I was disparaging those who feel that making a little money from their woodturning is a primary motive for their hobby. I'd just like to clear this up, if anyone else is thinking the same......if they are, then I apologize for not choosing my words carefully enough to eliminate misconceptions.

    I could care less what others do with their turnings, or what their philosophy and motives are. Although I was rambling a bit here, I was strictly speaking of my own philosophy, and what it means to me. There was a comparison made between what I feel is the differences between my own thoughts, and goals.....and others, as I perceive them to be. There are undoubtedly those who are in tune with my thinking, but I believe those of us who do see things similarly, are a small minority in a vast sea of artists and craftsmen in general.

    ooc
     
  25. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Odie,

    The PM'er apparently didn't read your post carefully enough because you made it quite clear that this was something that you applied to your own work as a way to avoid stifling your creativity. I did not read even the slightest hint of telling others what they ought to do.If anybody owes anybody else an apology it would be the PM'er who got his/her hackle up.

    Even if you had said that everybody else ought to be an Odie clone, this is a forum where folks express their opinions about woodturning related matters.
     
  26. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Odie,
    I thought you were expressing your philosophy, not telling others how to live.

    Many People who sell their work have similar sentiments conflicts.
    " do I make what please me and hope it sells or do I make what I know will sell"

    We all know someone making a living from wood turning has a lot of tough choices.

    Similarly people wanting to get ahead in woodturning have sort of two divergentt paths
    1. Make a common items like a bowl, box, or pen better than almost anyone else Or
    2. Make things no one else does.

    If we were all the same it would be a boring world.

    Al

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  27. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    the written word isn't always clear

    Not to be bashful, I am the one that PM'ed Odie, not with my hackles up but to explain to him that quite bluntly, if there isn't a long term return in wood turning I can't do it as a hobby. I am a master class pistol competitor, set a few local records and won some matches with pistols I built. Can't afford to do it. Ditto benchrest competition. I love outdoor and wildlife photography, can't afford it as a hobby. Expensive hobbies are for people who aren't disabled and haven't been living on a fixed income for many many years.

    I felt I needed to make my position clear to Odie, not because I was angry but because I respect him and his work that I have seen. I enjoy wood turning more than anything I have done in a long time. I am making some real sacrifices to turn wood and putting up with pain that I wouldn't have had I not spent hours working on or with my lathe. My position is simple. I thoroughly enjoy turning wood and feel sure there will be opportunity to express my creativity. However, if it shows no sign of being anything but a money pit a year from now I'll regretfully try something different.

    I wouldn't turn wood to make money if I hated turning wood, I can't keep turning wood if I don't make money. It is really just that simple. Fortunately I do have some local interest. A matter of turning out something I am willing to sign at this point. That might take six months or more, it might not. I am a craftsman, I'm not a woodturner. However I am turning an intensity of effort into becoming a woodturner that has resulted in the almost impossible a few times before. With a little luck and some great advice I may pull one more miracle out of my hat! :)

    Hopefully this clears the air including between myself and Odie. I greatly respect the skills and expertise of everyone who has posted in this thread. I had no ill will or anger towards Odie, far from it. Communication with the written word can be a, um, bear, because we each put our own tone to the words we read.

    Hu
     
  28. odie

    odie

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    Hi, Hu........

    I guess this whole thing is a matter of misinterpretation, and it looks like I might be guilty of it, too......and none of this will influence the price of tea in China! :D

    Hope you get your problems with interior bowl turning resolved, and from what I saw here, you got some very good advice. Now, the only thing that will facilitate that.......is you putting that advice to practical application. No doubts, that's what you will do! :cool2:

    later.......

    ooc
     
  29. hu lowery

    hu lowery

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    getting there


    Odie,

    I am indeed improving my woodturning and woodturning knowledge at a rapid rate. Had to take a day off today to work in the yard but back to making shavings tomorrow.

    I have a tendency to be overly verbose on a keyboard and I either do that or do that and then delete it and send a short message in hopes of clarity. Sometimes it seems neither one works. Like you say, none of this is important in the overall scheme of things. I tried to clear the air and seem to have just muddied the waters! I'm going to move back to technical questions now. I seem to remember something about the best thing to do when you are in a hole is quit digging and there is where I seem to be trying to explain my motivations.

    I'll be happy to buy you a meal or your favorite tipple when we meet.

    Hu
     

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