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Truing a blank

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I'm a newer turner, little less than a year. I've made dozens of pens and other spindle projects. They're fun but I don't need anymore pens and bottle openers right now.
So I've turned about 5 or 6 bowls so far and it seems that no matter what I do I can't get my blanks true so that my tool doesn't bounce when turning either the side or bottom. Even when using store bought, round blanks they always bounce from start to finish making it very hard to get smooth finishes and enjoy the experience as well.
I'm hoping someone can tell me how they do it. A technique or tool or both. It's very frustrating and would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
 
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Yeah, round is never round until you make it round. And even if it were, it wouldn't stay round as the green wood (which is normally what you find in store-bought blanks) dries out. I'll let others weigh in on tool technique, lathe speed, etc. Are you relatively confident that your lathe spindle is turning true? If you don't have that, then all bets are off...
 
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Yeah, round is never round until you make it round. And even if it were, it wouldn't stay round as the green wood (which is normally what you find in store-bought blanks) dries out. I'll let others weigh in on tool technique, lathe speed, etc. Are you relatively confident that your lathe spindle is turning true? If you don't have that, then all bets are off...
Not sure at all. Thank you. In fact I've wondered, because even when making pens it's not all all smooth and my pens come out pretty nice and round but it seems like a bumpy ride. Any way to check for sure?
 
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Move your tailstock, with centers in, all the way up to your headstock where they are almost touching and see if they line up. If they don't your centers aren't true and it will affect your work.
 
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One other thought: when you’re truing the blank, come at it from the end (the face that’s perpendicular to the bed of the lathe). If you’re working on something way out of round, and turning fast from the edge, you may be bouncing over the low spots from the high spots, and have a hard time ever evening them out. I hope I explained that well...
 
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One other thought: when you’re truing the blank, come at it from the end (the face that’s perpendicular to the bed of the lathe). If you’re working on something way out of round, and turning fast from the edge, you may be bouncing over the low spots from the high spots, and have a hard time ever evening them out. I hope I explained that well...
I understand thank you. Definitely bouncing, but also what process am I using to try to round the blank? Just scraping across the side with a scraper or gouge? Just no sure how to properly do it.
 
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What lathe are you using? What tools have you tried? How are you holding the blank? Have you ever watched a mentor or attended a bowl turning demonstration? What YouTube videos have you watched? What books have you read?
All good questions, thank you. Using several different bowl gouges, and scrapers, negative and not. Using a Laguna 1216 midi lathe and have seen multitudes of videos. Holding with a face plate. It seems that people are just turning with their gouges with no real attempt to true up and they get it there. Any video suggestions would be appreciated. Searched "how true up bowl blank" with nothing I can find specifically for that, just people turning and not really talking about truing up.
 
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I have that same lathe and love it! I would be really surprised if it's not true but I would still check, as you said start simple. It may be a technique issue. There are a lot of turners here who can help with that.
 

hockenbery

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Bouncing is often the result of pushing too hard.

i use a side ground gouge(Ellsworth grind) And cut from foot to rim to round.

In the video below I show making a cove cut on the corner of the blank.
I hold the gouge with forward arm straight to hold the tool on the rest
the back arms straight with the hand holding the tool handle end at the the top of my thigh.
I rotate my hips to swing the cutting edge across what corner. This cuts a smooth cove on the interrupted cut.
About 6:30-8:00 I rough the outside of a half log blank to close to round using the cut describe above.

please ask any questions.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo0bGSafZq4
 
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Bouncing is often the result of pushing too hard.

i use a side ground gouge(Ellsworth grind) And cut from foot to rim to round.

In the video below I show making a cove cut on the corner of the blank.
I hold the gouge with forward arm straight to hold the tool on the rest
the back arms straight with the hand holding the tool handle end at the the top of my thigh.
I rotate my hips to swing the cutting edge across what corner. This cuts a smooth cove on the interrupted cut.
About 6:30-8:00 I rough the outside of a half log blank to close to round using the cut describe above.

please ask any questions.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo0bGSafZq4
Thank you all and especially the video. Will watch it this evening when I have more time and attention and will definitely ask questions if necessary. Thx again.
 
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Bouncing is often the result of pushing too hard.

i use a side ground gouge(Ellsworth grind) And cut from foot to rim to round.

In the video below I show making a cove cut on the corner of the blank.
I hold the gouge with forward arm straight to hold the tool on the rest
the back arms straight with the hand holding the tool handle end at the the top of my thigh.
I rotate my hips to swing the cutting edge across what corner. This cuts a smooth cove on the interrupted cut.
About 6:30-8:00 I rough the outside of a half log blank to close to round using the cut describe above.

please ask any questions.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo0bGSafZq4
Thanks again. It seems like you trued it very quickly and easily with those beautiful wide cuts. Just hogged it true. Wish I could make those kind of cuts. I mostly get saw dust and minor shavings. But is that it then maybe, just take off enough wood in long even cuts. Are you bearing down when you do that or is the tool incredibly sharpened or both.
 

hockenbery

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Thanks again. It seems like you trued it very quickly and easily with those beautiful wide cuts. Just hogged it true. Wish I could make those kind of cuts. I mostly get saw dust and minor shavings. But is that it then maybe, just take off enough wood in long even cuts. Are you bearing down when you do that or is the tool incredibly sharpened or both.

Stick with it and you will...

The tool is sharp. I don’t push the tool, I guide it. I jut let the tool do the work.
Around 10:00 in the video I show the tool cutting as I rotate the bowl by hand.

most beginners find it easiest to take a cut at a depth of 1/4-1/2”

floating the bevel over the cut wood let’s the edge engage to cut. The tool locks in and I just control the depth of cut. Tool handle is always against my body. Moving my body controls the depth of cut. The tool is held lightly so it can work.
 
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I’d contact the San Diego Woodturners Club, perhaps they have a mentor nearby that could give some hands on help.
Great suggestion and I have a few months ago, but with Covid 19 they're not doing anything but Video Conferencing type meetings which really don't differ much than You Tube and right here. As soon as they're rolling again I will join immediately. Thx again.
 
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Stick with it and you will...

The tool is sharp. I don’t push the tool, I guide it. I jut let the tool do the work.
Around 10:00 in the video I show the tool cutting as I rotate the bowl by hand.

most beginners find it easiest to take a cut at a depth of 1/4-1/2”

floating the bevel over the cut wood let’s the edge engage to cut. The tool locks in and I just control the depth of cut. Tool handle is always against my body. Moving my body controls the depth of cut. The tool is held lightly so it can work.
Thank you, I'm in and out of my garage right now trying things and will continue. Again, I say it looks like there is no particular way to true up a blank but to just take off enough wood from the sides and top and bottom to get it there. No real technique just for truing.
 
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Are you turning green wood or rock hard dried seasoned wood? Most people turning bowls are rough turning green wood which turns very easy compared to a dry seasoned wood blank. Rough turning dried seasoned wood requires sharp tools and precise tool cutting angles to make your cuts, some dried seasoned woods can be very difficult to cut compared to green wood. You can also use a bandsaw to cut the corners off of a square blank to reduce the impact of (4) square corners dulling your tools.
 
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Are you turning green wood or rock hard dried seasoned wood? Most people turning bowls are rough turning green wood which turns very easy compared to a dry seasoned wood blank. Rough turning dried seasoned wood requires sharp tools and precise tool cutting angles to make your cuts, some dried seasoned woods can be very difficult to cut compared to green wood. You can also use a bandsaw to cut the corners off of a square blank to reduce the impact of (4) square corners dulling your tools.
Thank you, I'm learning you're right. Most of the blanks are very hard. I need to start looking for more green wood or blanks.
 
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The San Diego Woodturners used to have mentors, and if I'm remembering correctly one of them was in Carlsbad and another was maybe in Solana Beach. In any case, even if they're not holding meetings in person, one of the mentors is probably willing to spend some time working with you. A few hours, in person, with a coach is more valuable than 6 months of youtube. On the phone coaching wouldn't be as good, but it's still worthwhile.
 

john lucas

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This is hard to describe without a video. What I do when something is really out of round. I anchor my left hand on the tool.and tool.rest. I have the handle against my hip. I start the cut on the outside corner and just move my hip. So the tool is swiveling in an arc and you control.the cut with your body. What usually happens when the tool is bouncing is your taking too large of a bite. Using my method you can easily take smaller controlled bites with a lot less stress. Make a pass, move the tool.a small.amount and take another cut. You can work.the whole piece down to.round this way. Works well with a s raper or bowl gouge.
 
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This is hard to describe without a video. What I do when something is really out of round. I anchor my left hand on the tool.and tool.rest. I have the handle against my hip. I start the cut on the outside corner and just move my hip. So the tool is swiveling in an arc and you control.the cut with your body. What usually happens when the tool is bouncing is your taking too large of a bite. Using my method you can easily take smaller controlled bites with a lot less stress. Make a pass, move the tool.a small.amount and take another cut. You can work.the whole piece down to.round this way. Works well with a s raper or bowl gouge.
Thank you. I understand what you're saying. Just take it a little at a time all the way down the side. Will try tomorrow. Very grateful to everyone.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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If you are getting frustrated to the point of putting a for sale sign on your lathe, I would try a Viceroy tool from Mike Hunter Tools or the Jimmy Clewes Mate tool. I co-wrote an article about how easy it is to use, even if you have never turn anything in your life, in an hour you will have a completed bowl. No catches, no bounces, no stress, instant satisfaction. There will be plenty of time to learn how to use traditional tools like a bowl gouge later on, after you stop admiring the beautiful work you have done. That would be a fast easy solution until you can go and visit a mentor or take a class.
 
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If you are getting frustrated to the point of putting a for sale sign on your lathe, I would try a Viceroy tool from Mike Hunter Tools or the Jimmy Clewes Mate tool. I co-wrote an article about how easy it is to use, even if you have never turn anything in your life, in an hour you will have a completed bowl. No catches, no bounces, no stress, instant satisfaction. There will be plenty of time to learn how to use traditional tools like a bowl gouge later on, after you stop admiring the beautiful work you have done. That would be a fast easy solution until you can go and visit a mentor or take a class.
Thx for the suggestion. I totally agree that some carbide tools make things much easier. In fact I have a Hunter Osprey tool and it cuts better than a bowl gouge for me right now.` I’ll watch a video or two on it and see what I think.
 
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This is a variation on what John described. I use this in the video above but don’t focus on it as much.

Bowls Cove Ruffing cut -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIHADKjfL2c
Watched both videos and will try what you show. Starting at the bottom and rounding the corner working my way to the top until and it’s smooths out.
Very grateful to everyone for the the consideration you’ve shown me, hopefully one day maybe I can do the same for someone else.
 

hockenbery

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Watched both videos and will try what you show. Starting at the bottom and rounding the corner working my way to the top until and it’s smooths out.
Very grateful to everyone for the the consideration you’ve shown me, hopefully one day maybe I can do the same for someone else.

what you get from an in person class or mentor is the slight corrections that get you riding the bevel.
When you feel the cut under supervision you then know how it is supposed to feel.
With Covid there are few opportunities for hands on.

In a club demo I often ask “how many people enjoy roughing” maybe 5 hands go up out of 80.
So many people tend to muscle through roughing by hanging on to a bouncing tool which is quite unpleasant.
Keep practicing.

If you aren’t getting a smooth bounce free cut in a few days, consider the advice by @Emiliano Achaval above.
The carbides like the osprey will get you a pretty good result. Not as good as a gouge overall but a lot easier to master than a gouge.

Right now you are teaching yourself and you are not the best available teacher. Covid is just not going away and we are not dealing with well as a country. Keep trying you’ll get there...
 
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what you get from an in person class or mentor is the slight corrections that get you riding the bevel.
When you feel the cut under supervision you then know how it is supposed to feel.
With Covid there are few opportunities for hands on.

In a club demo I often ask “how many people enjoy roughing” maybe 5 hands go up out of 80.
So many people tend to muscle through roughing by hanging on to a bouncing tool which is quite unpleasant.
Keep practicing.

If you aren’t getting a smooth bounce free cut in a few days, consider the advice by @Emiliano Achaval above.
The carbides like the osprey will get you a pretty good result. Not as good as a gouge overall but a lot easier to master than a gouge.

Right now you are teaching yourself and you are not the best available teacher. Covid is just not going away and we are not dealing with well as a country. Keep trying you’ll get there...

I couldn't agree more and would do it in a second, but with covid 19 restrictions on I'm very hesitant to askt someone to give me a lesson, very much agree though it would be money well spent.
I would want to do it at my house with my lathe, my tools and my sharpening system and go over it all with a teacher. Would love it. I just don't know if it's proper to ask someone for that now. Are you guys doing that in your area now?
 
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I think I've had a breakthrough in my thinking though thanks to all of you. The reason no one talks about truing up a blank is because the way most do it is called roughing a blank. And it seems that you to take off enough wood in the roughing process to make it true. I was trying to save as much wood as possible and don't think I was taking enough off to really true it up. Is that a more accurate description of what I'm talking about? I can do that with bowl gouges, etc but I don't think I ever really completed the processes because of the cost of blanks and trying to get the most out of them.
 
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The way I was taught to see if your blank is round is to lightly hold your gouge on the top of the blank. If the gouge bounces then the blank isn't round. The rounder the blank the less the gouge should bounce and dance. BTW, I tried to find a video demoing this but didn't have any luck.
 

hockenbery

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Are you guys doing that in your area now?
I am not teaching yet. I had a couple of commitments for March/April which have been postponed.

you to take off enough wood in the roughing process to make it true. I was trying to save as much wood as possible and don't think I was taking enough off to really true it up. Is that a more accurate description of what I'm talking about? I can do that with bowl gouges, etc but I don't think I ever really completed the processes because of the cost of blanks and trying to get the most out of them.
maybe. making the largest piece from a block of wood is rarely the best shaped piece.

if you watch how I turn the bowl from the blank - I cut a lot of wood off where the bowl curves into the bottom and don’t even cut the rim totally round until the end. The rim is the widest dimension I can get and I come close to using most of the wood at the rim.

another tip in turning things round is to work from smooth( true round) into the not round.
 
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A great book on turning is Raffan's "Turning Wood with Richard Raffan". When my FiL bought a new edition of this book he gave me his 20 year old version and it's really good. A one on one mentor is the way to go, but in the days of COVID a good book is hard to beat. :)
 
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Vic, what you really need is a hands on session. If we had Star Trek transporters, I would have you up to Oregon for a play date. I also have a bunch of bowl turning videos up on You Tube, and they may help. An 8 inch bowl used to take me 45 minutes to as long as an hour. Now, about 5 minutes. You will get better.

From an old Hollywood movie, and it applies to tools also, "Hold the sword as you would a bird. Too tight and you kill it. Too loose and it flies away."

robo hippy
 
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Can't thank everyone enough for the recommendations and encouragement. Believe me I won't rest until everything everyone has said has been thoroughly tried.
 

Dave Landers

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I was trying to save as much wood as possible and don't think I was taking enough off to really true it up. Is that a more accurate description of what I'm talking about? I can do that with bowl gouges, etc but I don't think I ever really completed the processes because of the cost of blanks and trying to get the most out of them.
Getting the "most" out of a blank doesn't mean it's the best.

Your blank is already paid for. Now you have a choice of getting "the most" bowl (most of these end up with flat/vertical sides and a flat bottom - difficult to turn and not usually very attractive) or something with a flowing and pleasing shape that feels good in your hands etc. Both bowls "cost" the same, but the more pleasing one is worth more. (holds true no matter what you paid or how you obtained the blank, and if you're keeping or selling the bowl)
 
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Getting the "most" out of a blank doesn't mean it's the best.

Your blank is already paid for. Now you have a choice of getting "the most" bowl (most of these end up with flat/vertical sides and a flat bottom - difficult to turn and not usually very attractive) or something with a flowing and pleasing shape that feels good in your hands etc. Both bowls "cost" the same, but the more pleasing one is worth more. (holds true no matter what you paid or how you obtained the blank, and if you're keeping or selling the bowl)
Words to live by, but where were you 5 or 6 bowls ago. Totally agree now. Thank you.
 
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Vic, watching Stuart Batties "Fundamentals videos" were the most help for me. He demonstrates how one creates the bounce, and how to avoid it. As lots of others have suggested, an in person session would be best, but SB really explains things well.
 
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