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trouble removing tailstock from Jet 1014VSI

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by ernie garcia, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. ernie garcia

    ernie garcia

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hi,
    I've been trying my new jet while waiting for pen blanks, and I'm having trouble removing the tailstock. Do you have to pound it out?
    I had to pound out the spur center on the headstock and it ended up flying across the room.
    This Jet is brand-new, maybe 5 hours on it.
    Are they usually this hard to remove, or am I doing it wrong? Manual not too helpful.
    ernie
     
  2. Clifton C

    Clifton C

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    Location (City & State):
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    Ernie, I believe the live center in your tail stock is “self ejectingâ€, meaning you wind the quill all the way in and at the end of its travel you turn the hand wheel a bit more and the live center pops out. However, I’ve had this not happen, resorted to the knockout bar and knocked the bearings and point out of the live center. This was the smaller live center style that comes with the Jet minis, not the Oneway style. I used a strap wrench to remove what was left in the lathe. What I found was that the morse taper socket had what I would describe as “micro threadsâ€. The walls of the socket had extremely fine grooves, like on a record (LP) and the live center got locked in. Not sure if any of this helps. I’ve also found lots of little raps as opposed to one good smack can make a difference…

    cc
     
  3. Dave Moore

    Dave Moore

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    I don't like the sound of all this "pounding it out" stuff Ernie.
    when you say you're having trouble removing the tailstock I'm thinking you mean getting the live center out of the tailstock morse taper?

    Like Clifton says, it should eject when you wind the tailstock all the way back, but they can stick in there if there's some poor machining on the taper or if there's some debris or whatever down in there.
    Inspect everything closely for machining marks and smooth things out with very fine sandpaper if you have to. Lightly now, you don't want to change the shape of anything, just clean off any roughness.

    Be sure there's no goop inside the taper in the headstock, poke around in there with a rag on a thin wood dowel to see if it comes out clean. It should.

    Look everywhere you can for signs of any burrs left over from the manufacturing process, and gently remove them.

    Having to pound on things is sometimes unavoidable, but should be really rare, and pounding on things stuck in the headstock in particular is bad news for the bearings.
    A quick rap or two with the knock out bar should be all things ever need.
    Morse tapers should not need to be pounded, in or out, and if they do there's something needs attention somewhere.
     
  4. MichaelMouse

    MichaelMouse

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    May 16, 2005
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    This one's been around many times before. Apparently the JET people sent out some non-ejecting live centers. Can't tell unless they're out of the tail.

    Something like this will NOT self-eject, bacause it is too short in the taper and bored so that the tapered ends may be knocked/swapped out. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020433/22893/Nova-Live-Center-System.aspx

    Something like this, and almost all will have some kind of a step which makes the thing long enough to push out, WILL self-eject. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...ring-Live-Tailstock-Center-1-Morse-Taper.aspx

    So rap the thing out, determine which you have, and disregard all the other advice for the future if you have one which is not long enough or manufactured so as not to self-eject.
     
  5. Joe Greiner

    Joe Greiner

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    Cleaning any crud should be the first order of business, and pounding IN is generally forbidden. Also, touch any rough spots with crocus cloth; it won't diminish the purchase in the socket.

    Conventional Morse tapers (non-lathe) use a knockout wedge for removal. I have an old Black & Decker hammer drill with Morse taper bits, and pounding OUT is usually required. Heck, the hammer drill pounds it IN anyway.
     
  6. Rick M

    Rick M

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
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    180
    The may be situations where the overall length of the taper might be too short, but that particular example self-ejects just fine from the quill of a Jet 1220 midi. Perhaps Ernie's 1014 is different, but it's not every day the student gets to update the teacher :cool: .

    In my short time turning, I've only faced 1 instance of a severely stuck object in a Morse Taper (thankfully not on my lathe, either), so I'll share what I've learned from others that no one's mentioned yet.

    When you consider the nature of a taper and the reason to apply force (in normal operation) to keep the inserted piece seated in the taper, then without that force present, you can also (with reasonable force) tap from the sides--not just the opposite end--to loosen the stuck object.

    I'll add that the particular MT2 live center that Jet supplies with the lathe is apparently easily damaged, so don't
    1. drop it like the spur drive, or
    2. bang on any portion but the shaft
    Transfer the force of sideways blows by using a hard dowel or other shaft (preferably non-marring) between the bearing and the end of the quill, or you might end up with a live center assembly that separates unexpectedly. Dropping it on a hard enough surface is a good exercise to discover a way to make ovals and increase vibration.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  7. MichaelMouse

    MichaelMouse

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    Seems like a reasonable assumption that a 1014 equates to the 1220, but, as I said before, this subject has been around.

    The middle example here would not eject from a 46-204 or any other Delta at the college or school unless I used the removable extender I made for it. Since it's in a non-ejecting quill now, machts nichts. Then there are other OEM types like the one on the right. Guess it's like a box of chocolates....
     

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  8. Rick M

    Rick M

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    I have a different set of issues when I want to use that Nova Live Center, but self ejection isn't one of 'em. I probably ought to illustrate the topic in a different thread so I don't hijack this one.
     
  9. MichaelMouse

    MichaelMouse

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    Another old trick you might not have heard of is to take a piece of wood with a forked end which allows it to fit over the quill and extend same until the wood fits behind the center but ahead of the tailstock casting. As you crank the quill back a gentle force is exerted from either side which pulls the center gently. Won't drop, because you're not rapping it. I ejected that middle example hundreds of times in that manner on several lathes.

    Much easier on the equipment.
     
  10. ernie garcia

    ernie garcia

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    Mar 16, 2010
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    live center from tailstock removed!

    Well, SHE fixed it. Took the whole tailstock section apart, cleaned everything and put it all back together. Works , self-ejects --- no pounding or anything.
    SHE's still gloating!
    ernie
     
  11. Rob

    Rob

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Tail Stock

    OH GEEZ!!:)
    Maybe if you're lucky she'll let you use it or at least watch her.
     
  12. rjones

    rjones

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    Location (City & State):
    Lorena Texas
    one thing on sticking spur drives and cup and live centers, keep them clean and do not put so much pressure on them when trying to keep the wood between centers if you have to crank down on very hard you put a lot of pressure on your bearings and tapers. you need to set the spur drive with a wood mallet or non maring hammer, don't try to set it with pressure from the tail stock. MO
     
  13. AnnHerbst

    AnnHerbst

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    Location (City & State):
    Sonoma County, CA
    An adjustable wrench works too

    I've used an adjustable wrench this way on an aftermarket pen turning live center that was too short to self eject. I was really happy when I thought of it and it worked like a charm!
     
  14. Rick M

    Rick M

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
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    Prying NOT Recommended on Jet-Supplied Live Center

    The 1014 and the 1220 both ship with the same live center assembly (P/N 708331). The tapered shaft is only a mild "press fit" into the ball bearing's inner race on the "live" part of the center. It remains snug as long as it's not dropped and only the normal compressional forces are applied.

    OTOH, start prying and you're likely to discover just how easily those two components separate :eek:. Once it ever comes apart there, from then on it'll come apart in your hand if you simply grasp and pull. Then you'll still have to get the shaft ejected. That's why in my previous post I suggested tapping from the side against the shaft itself as an alternative.

    That was one of the first components I upgraded, but there's some caveats here too, due to the depth that the manufacturer drills the Morse taper into the quill (labeled a "tailstock spindle" in Jet's drawings). I found that the Nova Live Center System, while a much better live center, inserts so far into the quill that the bearing bottoms out against the end of the quill.

    The solution is to buy a different live center or remove enough metal off the end of the quill for the bearing to clear. The larger live center that Jet and Powermatic supply with their bigger lathes also works just fine in an unmodified 1014/1220 quill.
     
  15. DOCworks

    DOCworks

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    Live Centers

    I got one of the Large from Jet/PowerMatic which appears to be a Oneway clone with my 3520b. I didn't use it as I had a Oneway that I used. About a 6 month after getting everything up and running I wanted to use the 60 deg point to turn some pens and thought well I'll just be cute and use my Jet Live center. Well this is when things got ugly. I beat on the center point to a fault, but being careful on to pound on it so I would mess up the bearings, and still couldn't get the point out. I was beginning to think I didn't know what I was doing and that the center point didn't come out. I called Customer Service and tried to explain what the problem was and asked what I was doing wrong? The person on the phone asked what my serial # was on my lathe...uh? Ok so I went and got it and when I purchased the lathe. She said we'll take care of it. What? A week later I got a new one in the mail. Ok so I tried to take the point out of it. Nope. I finally got a friend to make me a drift pin to fit the hole and a big hammer and pop out they both came. The back of the center on the first one looks like a dogs chew toy. Tiny bit of rust on both kept it from comming out cleaned both up and I keep them rust free. I tried to send one back but Jet wasn't interested. Moral, I don't know, act dumb and someone will fix or replace it for you. :) I did notice on the Jet centers the surface has a bit of machine marks which can lock the part together. I very small amount of polishing fixed my problem.
    Bill
     

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