Trend and DMT diamond hones.......a comparison.

[odie]

I've done a little comparison of the DMT and Trend diamond hones.......

The Trend is 400 grit

DMT is 600 grit

The DMT is a true cone shape and the Trend is a tapered half-round with one flat side.

My main use for these is to remove burrs from the flute of bowl gouges. The flat side of the Trend is also suitable for use on skews.

After working on several bowls with both used alternately, I've not noticed any difference in the cutting ability of the gouge with either diamond hone.

The DMT shape is a little more easy to use in the flute, but the Trend 400 grit is a bit faster. The Trend will not work in the smallest flutes, while the DMT will work with any gouge I have.

The flimsy butterfly handle of the DMT is not suitable, because it flexes in use. Because of that, positive control of the hone isn't very easy. I replaced that handle with a solid dowel.....this works. The Trend handle is solid and needs nothing to make it better.

My preference would be to have the DMT cone shape in 400 grit. That combination would serve me better, but am not aware of this being available.

ooc

In the photo, the Trend is on top, and DMT is on bottom:

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you are not familiar with the Alan Lacer hone, at first glance, it looks a lot like the average flat diamond sharpening "stone" about 2 X 6 inches in size. There are however, some significant differences. The differences that would be relevant to this conversation are that the two long edges are rounded -- one edge has a larger radius that fits the flute of the typical 5/8" bowl gouge and the other edge has a smaller radius that matches a 3/8" bowl gouge. This also means that the two flat faces are not parallel, but form a slight wedge. The Alan Lacer diamond hone is also double sided. I have found it to work much better than any other type of hone for the flute of a bowl gouge.

I would be concerned about bell-mouthing the flute of a bowl gouge using conical shaped hones.

 

[cwearing]

I agree that the Alan Lacer hone is top quality and most useful

 

[MichaelMouse]

There are however, some significant differences. The differences that would be relevant to this conversation are that the two long edges are rounded -- one edge has a larger radius that fits the flute of the typical 5/8" bowl gouge and the other edge has a smaller radius that matches a 3/8" bowl gouge. This also means that the two flat faces are not parallel, but form a slight wedge.

Slipstone. Standard design with a long history. I have a medium India for the task. In stock most places at one tenth the price. http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-India-Round-Edge-Slip-Stone-P180C30.aspx

Unless you're working the daylights out of the slip, you'll take a long time to make alteration at 600 grit. Least of the worries. I have a 1500 ceramic for touching up my carving gouges.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Slipstone. .....

That's the word that I couldn't find. For some unknown (to me) reason, this seems to happen more frequently. My wife has the same problem, but fortunately we know what the other is wanting to say.

Example:

She: We need to prune the ... you know that green thing in the back yard.
Me: OK. Do you want some of the clippings from the rosemary bush to season that thing that you are putting in the oven.
She: Yes, I think that the baked chicken will taste better with some rosemary seasoning.
Me: I'll be right on it as soon as I find my glasses.
She: They're on top of your head.
​

For carving tools, I think that the ceramic slipstone would be much better than the Lacer diamond slipstone which might be too aggressive in removing steel from a thin cutting edge.

 

[Mark Mandell]

For carving tools, I think that the ceramic slipstone would be much better than the Lacer diamond slipstone which might be too aggressive in removing steel from a thin cutting edge.

A diamond hone is more effective on the harder alloys, M2 and up. Carving chisels are usually made from high carbon steel as it lends itself more readily to forging the shape whereas turning tools are mostly (except for old-style SRG's) machined/ground from solid blanks. A diamond hone, like a CBN or diamond wheel, might tend to clog with use on a softer steel where an india, Hard Arkansas, ceramic or waterstone slip would be more effective.

YMMV

 

[odie]

If you are not familiar with the Alan Lacer hone, at first glance, it looks a lot like the average flat diamond sharpening "stone" about 2 X 6 inches in size. There are however, some significant differences. The differences that would be relevant to this conversation are that the two long edges are rounded -- one edge has a larger radius that fits the flute of the typical 5/8" bowl gouge and the other edge has a smaller radius that matches a 3/8" bowl gouge. This also means that the two flat faces are not parallel, but form a slight wedge. The Alan Lacer diamond hone is also double sided. I have found it to work much better than any other type of hone for the flute of a bowl gouge.

I would be concerned about bell-mouthing the flute of a bowl gouge using conical shaped hones.

Bill......At some time, you or someone else has mentioned the Alan Lacer hone. This is similar in shape to some other slipstones, and not a cone, or varying radius, of which I've come to prefer. Your concern about "bell-mouthing" is not in the cards, if the presentation is correct.

ooc

 

[MichaelMouse]

A diamond hone is more effective on the harder alloys, M2 and up. Carving chisels are usually made from high carbon steel as it lends itself more readily to forging the shape whereas turning tools are mostly (except for old-style SRG's) machined/ground from solid blanks. A diamond hone, like a CBN or diamond wheel, might tend to clog with use on a softer steel where an india, Hard Arkansas, ceramic or waterstone slip would be more effective.

YMMV

I think what you want to say is diamond hones are more effective on "more wear-resistant" alloys. Most turning tools are around Rc 62 hardness, if memory serves, regardless the alloy. Hardness must be balanced with toughness, after all. Carving tools run ~60. Not a lot of difference.

 

[Mark Mandell]

I think what you want to say is diamond hones are more effective on "more wear-resistant" alloys. Most turning tools are around Rc 62 hardness, if memory serves, regardless the alloy. Hardness must be balanced with toughness, after all. Carving tools run ~60. Not a lot of difference.

CBN and diamond wheel mfgr's all (from what I've seen and been told) state that those grind wheels should not be used to grind alloys less that M2 as the softer metal (matrix?) alloy will clog the wheel's surface which cannot then be "cleaned" like friable wheels can dressed. Diamond hones are way cheaper, but I'll just treat them as equals. YMMV

When I spend $180 for a CBN wheel, I doing what I'm told.

 

[MichaelMouse]

CBN and diamond wheel mfgr's all (from what I've seen and been told) state that those grind wheels should not be used to grind alloys less that M2 as the softer metal (matrix?) alloy will clog the wheel's surface which cannot then be "cleaned" like friable wheels can dressed. Diamond hones are way cheaper, but I'll just treat them as equals. YMMV

When I spend $180 for a CBN wheel, I doing what I'm told.

What has this to do with "hardness" of HCS vs Alloy tools and hones? I even quoted your text.


My diamond "stones" say to wash with soap and water. Though I have to say that neither heirloom high carbon steel nor A2/O1 types of plane irons or chisels have affected them. Imagine your grinding wheel directions probably forbid mild steel, aluminum and brass, as do the directions for standard wheels. Mild steels are not even rated in the Rockwell "C" but "B" scale.

 

[Mark Mandell]

What has this to do with "hardness" of HCS vs Alloy tools and hones? I even quoted your text.


My diamond "stones" say to wash with soap and water. Though I have to say that neither heirloom high carbon steel nor A2/O1 types of plane irons or chisels have affected them. Imagine your grinding wheel directions probably forbid mild steel, aluminum and brass, as do the directions for standard wheels. Mild steels are not even rated in the Rockwell "C" but "B" scale.

You're asking (and arguing with) the wrong person. The lit that came with my CBN wheel said not for use on other than HSS higher alloy tools to prevent clogging of the grit. I haven't researched it, but have seen the same comment concerning similar diamond wheels. If you have an issue with this, I suggest you contact the manufacturers and go from there.

 

[Bill Boehme]

What has this to do with "hardness" of HCS vs Alloy tools and hones? I even quoted your text.


My diamond "stones" say to wash with soap and water. Though I have to say that neither heirloom high carbon steel nor A2/O1 types of plane irons or chisels have affected them. Imagine your grinding wheel directions probably forbid mild steel, aluminum and brass, as do the directions for standard wheels. Mild steels are not even rated in the Rockwell "C" but "B" scale.

I am not sure that one can compare a hand slipstone to a wheel running at 1800 RPM when it comes to clogging.Hardness aside, I have observed that some alloys of steel are more prone to clog a silicon carbide grinding wheel. It is not too unreasonable to expect something analogous to that if using other types of grinding wheels. It is also reasonable to expect that we can't generalize what happens when using a hand slipstone to what might happen on a bench grinder.