softening carnuba wax

[Gary Chapman]

Can i soften the carnuba wax I use on my buffing wheels? I just got my Beal system and I find the carnuba wax to be so hard it hardly coats the buffing wheel. I can't tell it is even coming off the block. Couldn't I mix a small amount of beeswax with it and still get a nice protective coat on my bowls? Is there a better wax coating for the buffing wheel?

 

[MichaelMouse]

First, you don't need, or really want to "coat" your wheels. If you're making a dent in the bar, even if the wheel isn't loading up visibly, you've got wax.

Second, if you add a softer wax you will lose some of the brilliance of the hard carnauba, so beeswax, a soft lustre type, will put you back toward Johnson's in surface.

You could flake your carnauba, dissolve it in mineral spirits to get a thick paste, and apply as a paste wax, buffing after evaporation.

From memory, and subject to failure, I believe that carnauba is about 185 degrees to melt, so you could press a bit harder to gain some frictional heat to flow it.

 

[Gary Chapman]

First, you don't need, or really want to "coat" your wheels. If you're making a dent in the bar, even if the wheel isn't loading up visibly, you've got wax.

Second, if you add a softer wax you will lose some of the brilliance of the hard carnauba, so beeswax, a soft lustre type, will put you back toward Johnson's in surface.

You could flake your carnauba, dissolve it in mineral spirits to get a thick paste, and apply as a paste wax, buffing after evaporation.

From memory, and subject to failure, I believe that carnauba is about 185 degrees to melt, so you could press a bit harder to gain some frictional heat to flow it.

Thanks Mike,
I think I didn't have my wheel spinning fast enough to heat up the bar of wax,my lathe doesn't have a gauge to tell how fast it is spinning, just four pulleys and I am not sure of the speeds. I do love the shine the system produces.

 

[Barry Elder]

Too much wax is not good. Russ Fairfield, who is an acknowledged guru on most things involved in finishing, suggests using a natural bristle scrub brush to get off excess wax from cracks and to get rid of uneven lumps so as to have an even coat. It seems that most of us use too much carnauba and do not get the proper shine from it.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Thanks Mike,
I think I didn't have my wheel spinning fast enough to heat up the bar of wax,my lathe doesn't have a gauge to tell how fast it is spinning, just four pulleys and I am not sure of the speeds. I do love the shine the system produces.

Speed (unless you're crawling) doesn't matter. What increases friction is pressure, what allows heat to build is keeping the buff in one spot on the item being buffed. Remember, if you have a finish under the carnauba, that it will be warmed too!

Would it make a difference if you had a dial or window? I get a kick out of digital readouts on lathes - does anyone ever check its accuracy?

 

[John Nicholas]

Applying Carnauba Wax

Thanks Mike,
I think I didn't have my wheel spinning fast enough to heat up the bar of wax,my lathe doesn't have a gauge to tell how fast it is spinning, just four pulleys and I am not sure of the speeds. I do love the shine the system produces.

I apply the wood piece to the carnauba wheel at the speed I turned the item. You don't need to put much carnauba on the wheel. It will last a long time. Instead of the wax getting hot, it will smooth out and the edge will smooth over. Don't try to get the bar hot.

When holding the piece into the buff, hold carefully with two hands and move slowly. The time in the buff will deposit the wax. On an 8 inch bowl I will spend 5 - 8 minutes on each the Tripoli and White Diamond. I would spend 10 minutes with the wax. As you buff the wax on, watch the change in the shine. As that drops off, you can add more wax to the buff.

 

[john lucas]

I've been using the same wheels for about 3 years now. You still can't see any Carnauba wax on the wax wheel. The bar has gotten smaller over the years so I am using it up. I usually turn the speed up on the wax wheel. My theory is that the speed heats up the and deposits more wax.

 

[Dave Peebles]

Hi Gary,

Jerry Beall has some videos on youtube that might be of value to you.

I have had mine for over ten years and just learned a little more while watching them tonight. There are three that I saw. Here is a link to the first one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oulHXWmIrI&feature=related

Best wishes,

Dave

 

[Jerry Rhoads]

Hey Dave
Thanks for the Beall link

Jerry

 

[Dave Hulett]

I've been using the same wheels for about 3 years now. You still can't see any Carnauba wax on the wax wheel. The bar has gotten smaller over the years so I am using it up. I usually turn the speed up on the wax wheel. My theory is that the speed heats up the and deposits more wax.

you are correct. 3 years later and this post was a help! A short while ago I moved my beall buff from a dedicated 6" grinder and began attaching it to my lathe when needed. For some reason at the time I thought that perhaps the grinder was going to fast so I began setting the lathe at 1800rpm when buffing. I noticed that the bar didn't seem to be getting used at all and voile' jumping the speed back up to 3600 made the difference! thanks to all!

 

[odie]

I get a kick out of digital readouts on lathes - does anyone ever check its accuracy?

Accuracy, as in a specific rpm, is not the point MM.

What really matters is repeatable accuracy. The lathe is started and stopped so frequently, that once you find the best rpm, it's important to come back to the same rpm, whether or not it's numerically correct.

-----odie-----

 

[odie]

First, you don't need, or really want to "coat" your wheels. If you're making a dent in the bar, even if the wheel isn't loading up visibly, you've got wax.

MM is correct with this comment. ^^^^^

A bar of Beall Carnauba wax is better applied with pressure....more so than the EEE and WD compounds.

I have a couple of bars of Carnauba I purchased from CSUSA, and I suspect they've been cut with something.....maybe beeswax......don't know for sure. Anyway, they don't buff out as well as the straight hard Carnauba direct from Beall.

A bar of Beall Carnauba might last me 6 months, but I probably average about 1 1/2 finished bowls per week. (I probably spend about 2-3 good work days working on a single bowl......unlike a few others here!) I wouldn't call myself a "production turner", but I am a constant turner.....probably average anywhere between 30-40 hours per week out in the shop.....and, I do very little else, other than to make bowls!

-----odie-----

 

[Tom Gall]

you are correct. 3 years later and this post was a help! A short while ago I moved my beall buff from a dedicated 6" grinder and began attaching it to my lathe when needed. For some reason at the time I thought that perhaps the grinder was going to fast so I began setting the lathe at 1800rpm when buffing. I noticed that the bar didn't seem to be getting used at all and voile' jumping the speed back up to 3600 made the difference! thanks to all!

.... that discussion was from 2009. But, helpful information is always relevant!

 

[robo hippy]

I wonder if Kiwi neutral shoe wax would work better than a stick. It is carnuba wax, and they use turpentine to soften it. Bowling alley wax is pretty much the same thing.

robo hippy

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

Can i soften the carnuba wax I use on my buffing wheels? I just got my Beal system and I find the carnuba wax to be so hard it hardly coats the buffing wheel. I can't tell it is even coming off the block. Couldn't I mix a small amount of beeswax with it and still get a nice protective coat on my bowls? Is there a better wax coating for the buffing wheel?

Hi Gary,
I've been using the Beal system for more years than I can count.....I use it to finish almost all of my pieces. Some of my pieces, especially the ones I travel to symposiums with get handled by hundreds of people, and they still look as good as the day I finished them.
You definitely don't want to overload the wheel with the carnuba wax....and you want to leave it hard / not mixed with other products..IMO
It's that thin coat of hard wax that gives you that "shine" and protects the piece.
Just my opinion,
Have Fun!
Lyle

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

More information / resources for you Gary....and anyone else interested....

After some looking, I found one of my many You Tube Videos that covers this topic:

View: http://youtu.be/6I1z6_qFp50

I think I mention in the video that you don't want to overcharge the wheel. If you build up too much wax on the wheel and it transfers too much wax to the piece you will get "orangish" buildup and streaks/scratches in the wax.

I agree with some of the previous responses - you don't want to see wax on the white buffing wheel.
Lyle

 

[Larry Mercier]

Hi Gary,
I've been using the Beal system for more years than I can count.....I use it to finish almost all of my pieces. Some of my pieces, especially the ones I travel to symposiums with get handled by hundreds of people, and they still look as good as the day I finished them.
You definitely don't want to overload the wheel with the carnuba wax....and you want to leave it hard / not mixed with other products..IMO
It's that thin coat of hard wax that gives you that "shine" and protects the piece.
Just my opinion,
Have Fun!
Lyle

 

[Larry Mercier]

I frequently use the Beal system. It helps finish the finish
Have fun. Stay safe.
Larry















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[Dave Hulett]

thanks to all who joined me in resurecting this thread! upon examination I realized that my buffing ball (8yrs old) was very hard itself and could also be part of the problems I was having. So I ordered a brand new buffing ball, that has not arrived yet. While waiting, a new one coming, I had nothing to lose so I used some 320g sandpaper to losing it up and that softened it up and it seems to work fine. When I get the new one I'll compare it with my 8yr old one and report here.