Show season is ending. How was yours?

[Sergio Villa]

I posted this in another forum but since this is the forum af the AAW I believe is reasonable to post it here too.
Hello, this was my first season doing outdoor shows and the second if I include a few local indoor ones.
I really enjoy it although putting up the canopy is a little heavy on my shoulder. I have two sections in my booth, one for small decorative/useful objects that sell for less than $80 with the majority under $50 as an average (pepper mills, lidded boxes etc) and the second for utility bowls priced mainly according to the size.
the season was good but I sold mainly the small objects. That means a lot of work to replace the sold items. Very few large bowls were sold unfortuntely.
How many of you do shows and how was your season? how easy it was to sell utility bowls larger than 12 inch inch.
I think it would be nice to exange experience in this field.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I haven't done any shows nor sold stuff, but I was invited to join a group of six real artists for an exhibition titled Eclectic Wood during the month of December. I have five pieces that will be included. I had planned a sixth piece, but wound up making a mess of it.

 

[Sergio Villa]

Well, I notice with sadness that there are not too many turners posting on this forum that do shows. This is really disappointing because craft and art shows are where turners get to know peope and people get to know turners, an important way to make this craft more popular and help to make woodturning a more popular art/craft. Exposing in galleries is a very limited way to let our craft known. I have some of my stuff exposed in a gallery but there I have no interactions with people and this is very limiting.
If woodturning has to exit the small circle of initiated and establish itself as a recognized art/craft it must reach a larger public. Art and craft show are a way to do this.

 

[John Tisdale]

Not so sure about the missionary thing but I do want my work to be valued. And while accolades from friends are nice, dollars from strangers are nicer. I do one or two gallery shows a year and will agree that the interaction is invaluable. The biggest benefit to me is empowering gallery salespeople to project my work with the same enthusiasm they hear from me during the show. It's almost a guarantee that the "right patron" will not come along while you're there - he walks in the week after. And I gotta tell you, that phone call from a salesguy that he or she just sold a piece is a big deal.
When I'm talking to a potential customer I keep in mind that sales are like Philistines - tens of thousands have been killed with the jawbone of an ***.

JOhn

 

[John Tisdale]

you guys are really fast with the asterisks - are we anti-biblical?

 

[Gary Barone]

Well the season is not over. I do art shows all year. I do the art show because people will buy what they want and I will junk what they don't want you can make stuff you think is good but if no one buys it its trash. I do gallery work it is different than art shows

 

[Bill Boehme]

you guys are really fast with the asterisks - are we anti-biblical?

Are you personifying the Druids? The "guys" that you are referring to are lines of code in the vBulletin software.

My perspective on doing A&C shows is that while it may not be the last thing in the world that I care about, it is on the short list. I know several turners who do that sort of thing, but I haven't heard any of them express Sergio's evangelical philosophy. The sentiment that I have heard is a bit more mercenary -- it gives them a bit of pocket change so that they can justify buying more tools.

 

[Sergio Villa]

Not evangelical at all. I just like turning and would like more people appreciate it and it's products. The more the people involved directly or indirectly in turning the better for all of us. This is obvious. I never wanted nor cared to belong to a sept or a closed elitist circle and hope never will.

 

[odie]

I did some local art and craft shows in the 80's and early 90's, and my impression about them is not favorable. Those who attend them are not art shoppers, but bargain shoppers. Some of the regional juried A/C shows are very much different. I've attended some of those, but have not participated. Never could get enthusiastic about traveling several hundred miles, paying an entrance fee/commissions, building and setting up/breaking down a display. Sitting at a show wasn't enjoyable to me when I did it, and I imagine I'd feel the same at a high-end A/C show. They may be a good way to go for some people, but just not for me.....

 

[Fred Belknap]

I have sold a lot of bowls over the last few years at art & craft shows and also at flea markets. I'm with Sergio, I think it is a great way to bring our craft to the general public. It seems that if you have some customers with a little extra money and you have a product they want they will buy. I enjoy the public and enjoy explaining how I do what I do. Even when sales are less than spectacular I come away with the feeling that I have made some new friends and some good contacts for the future. One drawback is that I spend a lot of time doing some projects that sell well rather than what I want to make. Make a little money, expand your circle of friend, expand the craft, it is all good.

 

[Gretch Flo]

craft sales

These are a PITA (to avoid asterisks!!!). I have done 2 so far and one in dec besides my open house. When you figure the hours setting up/tearing down/ it sure is not cost effective. I have a couple of galleries that have my works.
I am a teacher at heart. A great back handed compliment I got at the last craft show was "i never realized how beautiful wood was until now. I can really appreciate it's beauty and potential." That made me feel good. I enjoy talking about the wood, the process, the history of the wood, etc-if there is any listening ear!!!!!
I'm with Fred-sometimes what sells best is the craft stuff, not the art stuff. Gretch

 

[hockenbery]

you guys are really fast with the asterisks - are we anti-biblical?

John, Bill, Gretchen,

Thought it might be useful for all of us to have a list of forbidden words




***, ****, ****, ****, *** ** * *****, *****, ****, ****, ****, *****, ****, ****, ****,

Al

 

[Bill Dalton]

I haven't done any shows nor sold stuff, but I was invited to join a group of six real artists for an exhibition titled Eclectic Wood during the month of December. I have five pieces that will be included. I had planned a sixth piece, but wound up making a mess of it.

I'm just curious by the "six real artists" are the rest of us fake artists, or crafts persons? You are always so concise and was just wondering if the was a dig at those who quietly enjoy our shared craft or were you being self deprecating.

I do shows; but mostly as a demonstrator, I make a few bucks, but I enjoy sharing my passion more than being a salesmen. So my wife goes along to handle questions of money.

 

[Sergio Villa]

..a group of six real artists....that is the question...
To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream...

 

[Gary Chapman]

..a group of six real artists....that is the question...
To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream...

I don't know if I belong to such a good group of turners but I really enjoy the interaction with a customer who admires my work. Part of selling is getting the feedback you need to keep going. Sure, I turn for myself, but a person needs to feel that what he or she is doing pleases others. When a person picks up your work and feels itk, smiles, and asks how you did that--Talking about it ,discussing your journey reinforces the motivation for turning. I too am a teacher and will always teach but have felt uncomfortable helping other students lately since I have lost sight of one eye due to a detached retina. There is a warm feeling when a student gets it, when they thank you for all your help. Gary

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm just curious by the "six real artists" are the rest of us fake artists, or crafts persons? You are always so concise and was just wondering if the was a dig at those who quietly enjoy our shared craft or were you being self deprecating.

I do shows; but mostly as a demonstrator, I make a few bucks, but I enjoy sharing my passion more than being a salesmen. So my wife goes along to handle questions of money.

No digs at anybody other than myself. A total of seven woodturners, six of whom are the real deal artists plus me (for comic relief) are participating in an exhibition called Eclectic Wood at the Fort Worth Community Arts Center in Gallery 9. Reception is December 5, if you like free snacks and wine. The others all have had their works juried into various venues. I haven't. I think that I am the only one who hasn't had any pieces in a gallery. It is sort of flattering to be invited to participate. I probably won't offer anything for sale since I still haven't "emerged", much less "arrived".

Al, you're always such a gentleman. Who would have guessed that you could swear like a drunken sailor.

 

[hockenbery]

Bill,
Enjoy the show. I probably won't get to the reception.
Maybe you can post some pictures...

Pricing work is always a challenge. People will want a chance to buy your work.

Have fun
Al

 

[Michelle Rich]

Hi Sergio. Glad your season was good . Mine was so-so. I have noticed that each year brings it's own issues. this year, I had trouble selling items that sold like hotcakes years before, and this year I couldn't make enough cuttingboards and other flatwork. Customers & times change constantly. As for bowls over 12", i rarely sell any that large. folks know they are hard to store in regular sized kitchen cabinets, and take up too much room on dining tables, or as a showpiece on a shelf (very wide shelf needed) or table such as a coffee, or sofa table. The only thing that never changes for me is COLOR..people love color and gravitate to it.
Best wishes for next year.

 

[Michelle Rich]

John, Bill, Gretchen,

Thought it might be useful for all of us to have a list of forbidden words




***, ****, ****, ****, *** ** * *****, *****, ****, ****, ****, *****, ****, ****, ****,

Al

thanks for the grin this morning Al.

 

[Tim Passmore]

I've enjoyed reading the various perspectives displayed here and wanted to share my experience. I've only been turning for about a year, but certainly have fallen in to the vortex. At the encouragement of my wife, we set up a table at a small farmers' market throughout the summer with some utility bowls that I had turned. I took along a section of a log and a roughed out bowl so I could discuss the process that I use when people stopped by----they enjoyed the "education". God blessed us with a very rewarding summer--- we met many nice people, we sold many items, I'm still working on Christmas orders, and people are now dropping off wood at my house. One friend (a wood harvester) gave me five large burls last week. I have also been invited to participate in some local art shows. While this might not be for everyone it was certainly good for us.

 

[Sergio Villa]

Thank you for the interesting feed back. As I said shows are one way, perhaps the best way to bring our craft in the midle of people which, even when not buying show a lot of interest and appreciation and curiosity.
Woodurning does not have to be only art or pseudoart "created" on Sundays afternoon when outside rains, but also useful objects made for daily use, spindles for forniture or small objects that can decorate a Christmas tree even without exotic icicles from Africa.
Obviously everybody chooses his/her own purpose in life but in my opinion more resources from the official organizations should be devoted to the simple turnings that are on the everyday tables. In my opinion Richard Raffan, with his simple and functional turnings has reached a level of craftmanship difficult to reach. Beauty, simplicity and usefulness are in my opinion the most difficult things to combine but are also the most rewarding.

 

[Raul McCai]

I'd like to be skilled enough for my work to be worthy of going to shows.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... in my opinion more resources from the official organizations should be devoted to the simple turnings that are on the everyday tables....

I can understand the spend more resources part. That is very easy to say, but vague enough to not go anywhere unless you are willing to flesh it out and pursue it. I have two questions about your statement:

• Most importantly, can you describe in specifics how those resources would be used?
• Where are those resources coming from (other areas, obviously, but we need more than wishful thinking)?

The political implications are obvious since nobody wants to have the funding cut for their "most important mission". Convincing the BoD of the importance of your proposition, as with anything that involves spending money, requires a compelling argument.

I think that it is great that turners participate in craft shows. I talked to a friend who is very much involved in this at the WNT club meeting night before last. He said that he still has six more shows to do with the biggest still to come, so the season is far from over in this part of the country. I was absolutely astounded when he told me how much income he had from sales so far this year. He does a high volume of sales and most things sell for $75 or less, but he has some really nice craft items that sell for much more and the craft show shoppers gladly pay it because he has what they are wanting. During the Fall season, his sales are primarily Christmas items.

 

[hockenbery]

I'd like to be skilled enough for my work to be worthy of going to shows.

If that is your goal take some quality classes and practice. You skills will grow rapidly.

Have fun and work safely

 

[odie]

At this point, it's my belief that classes may hinder one's natural ability, because it will necessarily cause your directions to be altered. That statement may not apply to everyone, or everyone equally......but, I do think it applies to my own woodturning journey in a good way.

The very most important thing is to believe in yourself, and put the "hands on" time in your shop. This alone will mean there will be more frustrations in the learning process, but the successes will be greater, because the insight as to the "why" is more acute.

I do think it's important to have some basic information, like that which is available in books and some commercial videos.....but, that just to get your boat in the water. After your floating, and not sinking, it's all up to you and your spirit to take over........

.....but, if you want to take the path of "the herd", there is nothing wrong with that. The problem with this, as I see it, is you will follow the path of the herd, and your individuality suffers as the result.

ooc

 

[Gretch Flo]

.....but, if you want to take the path of "the herd", there is nothing wrong with that. The problem with this, as I see it, is you will follow the path of the herd, and your individuality suffers as the result.

ooc

Odie-is your "herd" mentality style? or is it how to make the best possible cut into wood???

I have taken a few hands on day(Raffan, Cook, Jamieson ) classes with 5-6 other turners, , and can I say I learned alot??? No. In R Raffan/s class I was so intimidated to use the skew (still don't), it distracted me. Different chucking methods that I don't use-glue blacks, etc. Using a different machine from what I was used to was part of an issue. ( I have a Oneway 1640.).
Tried hollow forms using the Jamieson tools-Lyle's course- (I bought $350 worth and have never used them-hollow forms just don't "turn"-pun there I think-me on).
Did I learn from the demos?? yes. Would I learn from going to a monthly or more frequent=yes. Do I belong to any club=no. There is one a fair distance from me (hour?) that I have been invited to, but just never seemed to have the right timing. My bad. Learning from CD's=yes
Would belonging to a club make me do 3 axis turning=maybe. Taking a week long course would probably do me alot of good. One day isn't enough, just getting used to the different equipment I just don't have the gumption to do it. I still get alot of enjoyment out of doing some of the same things, but using different woods, and making them come "alive". Gretch

 

[odie]

Odie-is your "herd" mentality style? or is it how to make the best possible cut into wood???

I have taken a few hands on day(Raffan, Cook, Jamieson ) classes with 5-6 other turners, , and can I say I learned alot??? No. In R Raffan/s class I was so intimidated to use the skew (still don't), it distracted me. Different chucking methods that I don't use-glue blacks, etc. Using a different machine from what I was used to was part of an issue. ( I have a Oneway 1640.).
Tried hollow forms using the Jamieson tools-Lyle's course- (I bought $350 worth and have never used them-hollow forms just don't "turn"-pun there I think-me on).
Did I learn from the demos?? yes. Would I learn from going to a monthly or more frequent=yes. Do I belong to any club=no. There is one a fair distance from me (hour?) that I have been invited to, but just never seemed to have the right timing. My bad. Learning from CD's=yes
Would belonging to a club make me do 3 axis turning=maybe. Taking a week long course would probably do me alot of good. One day isn't enough, just getting used to the different equipment I just don't have the gumption to do it. I still get alot of enjoyment out of doing some of the same things, but using different woods, and making them come "alive". Gretch

Mornin' Gretch......

You know, of course, that whatever I say about turning philosophy is strictly my opinion, and I never have suggested that my opinion should be the same as anyone else. What works for me may not work for anybody else at all!

As to your question.....style, or best possible cut.......well, I think the answer is both! You see, it's my thinking that any input at all, if it comes from outside your "personal sphere", will alter the path you would have taken if left to your unfiltered natural abilities. It's likely that very few people will understand what I'm getting at here, but I'm betting one or two of those reading this might. Of course, in the beginning, it's necessary to get some basic knowledge from other experienced turners, but if one's plan is to develop his abilities to his own maximum "individual potential" (as opposed to a potential inspired by "the herd"), then he should keep all outside influence to a minimum and know just when to turn it off. At that point, he's in a great position to let his spirit take over. (IMHO, that is a very important point.)

There have been many times when I have been influenced by others on these forums......but, there is a difference. When I first logged onto this forum, I had been turning for 20+ years, and many of the major crossroads I've come to have already been passed and in the rear view mirror. I'm thankful that those years were in complete solitude. Sometimes, when I try to explain my methods, I get those who tell me how completely wrong I am......but, I have an advantage of knowing my refinements are the product of my experiences, rather than what is generally excepted to be unassailable truths....or "herd think". Regardless of any of that.....what I've always said is: "results are the ONLY thing that count".

ooc

 

[Tom Beatty]

never stop learning

My philosphy is different. Do not believe you shoud ever stop learning. Taking classes does not have to stymie your own creativity, it should just broaden your knowledge of techniques and show what other turners have learned. Also, belonging to a club has shown me new techniques, answered questions, and showed me the imagination that leads to some beautiful results. Life is far too short to learn everything from scratch

 

[Sergio Villa]

I can understand the spend more resources part. That is very easy to say, but vague enough to not go anywhere unless you are willing to flesh it out and pursue it. I have two questions about your statement:

• Most importantly, can you describe in specifics how those resources would be used?
• Where are those resources coming from (other areas, obviously, but we need more than wishful thinking)?

The political implications are obvious since nobody wants to have the funding cut for their "most important mission". Convincing the BoD of the importance of your proposition, as with anything that involves spending money, requires a compelling argument.

I think that it is great that turners participate in craft shows. I talked to a friend who is very much involved in this at the WNT club meeting night before last. He said that he still has six more shows to do with the biggest still to come, so the season is far from over in this part of the country. I was absolutely astounded when he told me how much income he had from sales so far this year. He does a high volume of sales and most things sell for $75 or less, but he has some really nice craft items that sell for much more and the craft show shoppers gladly pay it because he has what they are wanting. During the Fall season, his sales are primarily Christmas items.[/QUOTE

Bill, I really like good, "artistic" turnings. I always look at the gallery in this forum and everywhere I can.
Thus I totally support this kind of turning, although I believe that for the most part it is more craft than art. But this may be only semantics.

What I meant in my previous post is indeed simple and difficul at the same time. I believe that a good salad bowl or any other utilitarian objects must have both a visual and tactile feeling. In this I agree totally with R. Raffan. Holding something that fits nicely in the hands, does not feel too heavy or too light and has a beautiful, pleasing, perhaps relaxing curve is a nice sensation that is difficult to reach. Too many bowls have that impalpable feeling that comes from an overly thin wall not counterbalanced by a thicker bottom. You hold them in your hand and it is like holding a soap bubble ready to explode.

I like hearly american furniture and treenware. Turnings and simple colouring of wood was aften used and musterpieces of simplicity were created for dayly use.

My feeling is that this part of woodturning is a little neglected/overlooked by the turning organizations in favour of the "artistic" part of woodturning. How to do this? I do not know, perhaps encouraging discussions and postings in this field and/or reserving some space to the "craft" part of turning in the furums, symposiums etc.

I still have two indoor show to attend. They are Christmas oriented. I'm going to post in the gallery my latest turnings for these two shows. Nothing artistic of course but something simple and utilitarian for the occasion.
Regards.

 

[hockenbery]

Sergio, There is always a place for treen ware and well made salad bowls.

Balance? how much coverage?

There are about 150 articles under "bowls" in the journal index.
Searching on " bowls" will find more articles.

At every AAW Symposium there are 10-12 demonstrations on bowls.
Some cover the basics some are more advanced some cover one aspect such as coring.

AAW members can add to the coverage by writing an article for the journal, Writing an article for the fundamentals, .....

Al

 

[odie]

My philosphy is different. Do not believe you shoud ever stop learning. Taking classes does not have to stymie your own creativity, it should just broaden your knowledge of techniques and show what other turners have learned. Also, belonging to a club has shown me new techniques, answered questions, and showed me the imagination that leads to some beautiful results. Life is far too short to learn everything from scratch

We are in agreement, Tom.......never stop learning.

Where I think we differ, is the source of that learning process.......

I believe there is a big difference between discoveries made on your own, and that which is handed to you.......but, you are certainly welcome to disagree with me on that.

ooc

 

[hockenbery]

We are in agreement, Tom.......never stop learning. Where I think we differ, is the source of that learning process....... I believe there is a big difference between discoveries made on your own, and that which is handed to you.......but, you are certainly welcome to disagree with me on that. ooc

So you spent 20 years on your own. You acquired tools, lathe, and skills all on your own?
Never saw anyone turn, never talked to anyone about turning, never read anything about turning, never watched a video, never read a tool description.
That is amazing! You should write an article for the Journal on how you did it!

I know 4 turners in my extended community who became excellent turners( invited to demonstrate at the Florida symposium) in less than 5 years.
They all went the class route, got active in clubs, read a lot, watched videos, networked with other turners, three assisted at the craft schools, a couple asked me more questions than I can count. All have now demonstrated at the AAW, had pieces juried into the AAW shows,
All are doing original work well beyond anything they did in classes.

For someone starting out it seems there is a choice.

1. Dedicate 20 years to discovery. Take a jurors oath to avoid all contact with woodturning information

2. Take a couple of 3-5 day classes and reach the same level in a year or two.

A simple choice for anyone older than 50.

 

[robo hippy]

Show business is always a guessing game. We have an excellent Saturday Market and Farmer's Market which have strong draws from the local people and tourists. You have to have tourists for a show to be really good. I did the Saturday Market for 30 years. The first 15 were selling footbags (aka Hacky Sacks) and juggle balls. Then I got a wood shop. It was easy to add it in to the footbag business. Once I got the wood lathe, business really took off. I am now down to doing only one show, local, and called the Oregon Country Faire, known to locals as the Hippy Faire. Just outside town on 680 acres, you build your booth, and camp there. I will keep doing this show until I just can't turn any more. Most fun and most profitable. I sell as much to the vendors and work crew people as I do to the 50,000 people that come through. It draws from all over the country, both for work crews and customers, so they are all on vacation. I no longer do the Saturday Market or other shows. The strain on the old body is just too much for 1 day set up/take down, even with 2 new hips and a new knee. I had one or two other shows I liked, and it took years to figure out which ones would work for me. What sells best? By far and away, simple utility bowls, from personal size to family size, so from 6 to about 14 inch diameter. Probably 75% of my sales. My booth buddy sold 45 coffee mugs at the last Country Faire. Oh, there is almost no turn over in booths there. It is a very unique show.

robo hippy

 

[Sergio Villa]

ROBO I checked the internet site of the Oregon Country Fair. I do not know if those movies were from the sixties butt...never seen so many beautiful girls!

 

[robo hippy]

The movies are most likely current. Old hippies never die, they just move to Eugene, where Tie Die is the official cammo...... It is a show like no other. Lots of people come to be a hippy for the day... Good food, entertainment, and arts/crafts. Like I said, most fun show ever.

robo hippy

 

[odie]

So you spent 20 years on your own. You acquired tools, lathe, and skills all on your own?
Never saw anyone turn, never talked to anyone about turning, never read anything about turning, never watched a video, never read a tool description.
That is amazing! You should write an article for the Journal on how you did it!

I know 4 turners in my extended community who became excellent turners( invited to demonstrate at the Florida symposium) in less than 5 years.
They all went the class route, got active in clubs, read a lot, watched videos, networked with other turners, three assisted at the craft schools, a couple asked me more questions than I can count. All have now demonstrated at the AAW, had pieces juried into the AAW shows,
All are doing original work well beyond anything they did in classes.

For someone starting out it seems there is a choice.

1. Dedicate 20 years to discovery. Take a jurors oath to avoid all contact with woodturning information

2. Take a couple of 3-5 day classes and reach the same level in a year or two.

A simple choice for anyone older than 50.

Al......You've known me long enough to know my history, because this subject has come up over and over again between you and me.

"Juror's oath"......You know darn well I wanted to take classes back then. You also know that my perspective from the "rear view mirror" leads me to believe there is something special about learning by doing and discovering, rather than being taught.

No, I didn't learn completely on my own......I had several books and a few videos. My beginnings in woodturning was in 1982 on a Shopsmith, and my basic instruction came from books on the subject. I turned for about 5-6 years before I got my first VHS video.....Richard Raffan's first video, and this is after I had his book for a year, or so. I didn't just read those books and videos......I studied them......over and over again. I learned the basics of turning that way, and then I relied on self determination to progress from there.....what I call "spirit". As I told you in the past, I wanted to take some classes at CSUSA, but it didn't work out for me.....so, I became more-or-less self taught for anything more advanced than very basic turning knowledge. Years later, after seeing what and how other turners are influenced by "herd think", I've come to the conclusion that I wouldn't go back and trade the experiences which led me to the style and techniques that make me who I am. No, nott at all.....matter of fact, at this point, I'm thankful that I took the path I did, even though it wasn't the path I would have taken back then, if I had that choice.

I will have to agree with you on someone starting to turn later in life......they just don't have the time to develop on their own like I did. In 1982, I was 33 years old, and had plenty of time to take it to a natural conclusion. I must say that I didn't even think this would be a lifetime endeavor, until sometime in the 1990's. This, because I was so utterly frustrated with bowl turning, and my results were so unprofessional. This is another thing that leads to inner satisfaction......when you persevere and fail over and over again.....until you see the light at the end of the tunnel. Then, and only then is there meaning, right down to the depths of your soul.......and, I can't begin to explain just what that means to me.

Question:.......How do you think anyone learned to turn prior to the days of AAW and VHS videos? Well, unless he knew someone who turned, there was nothing but books......that's all there was. I don't have the statistics, but I'd venture to say there were many turners, and even seniors who learned that way. It was/is harder, more difficult for sure......but, if the determination was there, it could be done. If it took more individuality to find a way to succeed back then......then my guess is there was, just the same, more individuality to the results he had.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

...... Question:.......How do you think anyone learned to turn prior to the days of AAW and VHS videos? Well, unless he knew someone who turned, there was nothing but books......that's all there was. I don't have the statistics, but I'd venture to say there were many turners, and even seniors who learned that way. It was/is harder, more difficult for sure......but, if the determination was there, it could be done. If it took more individuality to find a way to succeed back then......then my guess is there was, just the same, more individuality to the results he had.

ooc

My 2¢:

In the Old World and in the early days here, the apprentice system was the way that craftsmen learned their skills. When I was in high school, various shop skills were still being taught. Also, lot of people were self taught, but the great thing is that they were willing to share what they learned the hard way. Sometimes the sharing was between others who had gone through the same ordeal of learning by trial and error. I have a hunch this mutual sharing of knowledge benefited everybody and not those just those who were beginners. Multiply the benefits of this process over and over and it has led to a very accelerated advance in tools and techniques in the last forty years or so.

 

[hockenbery]

Al........How do you think anyone learned to turn prior to the days of AAW and VHS videos? Well, unless he knew someone who turned, there was nothing but books......that's all there was. I don't have the statistics, but I'd venture to say there were many turners, and even seniors who learned that way. It was/is harder, more difficult for sure......but, if the determination was there, it could be done. If it took more individuality to find a way to succeed back then......then my guess is there was, just the same, more individuality to the results he had. ooc

After WWII and before the AAW and the craft schools, many people learned turning in high school shop classes. Some universities had turning. There were many production turning companies who either apprenticed or taught their employees. a few production turners still hire helpers today.

In 1973-1975 I took adult education shop at Annapolis high school to build furniture because I had no tools of my own. When I had finished my major project I asked the teacher, Barry Clark to show me how to use the lathe. Barry was a scraper guy. He taught me how to use and sharpen the spindle gouge, parting tool, square end scraper and round nose scraper. When the next semester started I had bought a Dale Nish book and started using tools to cut.

Lots of communities had evening shop classes for adults. I think the cost was $20 for a materials fee to cover things we used in the shop.

 

[odie]

My 2¢:

In the Old World and in the early days here, the apprentice system was the way that craftsmen learned their skills. When I was in high school, various shop skills were still being taught. Also, lot of people were self taught, but the great thing is that they were willing to share what they learned the hard way. Sometimes the sharing was between others who had gone through the same ordeal of learning by trial and error. I have a hunch this mutual sharing of knowledge benefited everybody and not those just those who were beginners. Multiply the benefits of this process over and over and it has led to a very accelerated advance in tools and techniques in the last forty years or so.

After WWII and before the AAW and the craft schools, many people learned turning in high school shop classes. Some universities had turning. There were many production turning companies who either apprenticed or taught their employees. a few production turners still hire helpers today.

In 1973-1975 I took adult education shop at Annapolis high school to build furniture because I had no tools of my own. When I had finished my major project I asked the teacher, Barry Clark to show me how to use the lathe. Barry was a scraper guy. He taught me how to use and sharpen the spindle gouge, parting tool, square end scraper and round nose scraper. When the next semester started I had bought a Dale Nish book and started using tools to cut.

Lots of communities had evening shop classes for adults. I think the cost was $20 for a materials fee to cover things we used in the shop.

Apprenticeship, high school, adult school.......yes, you guys are right about those things. However, apprenticeship here in the USA, in the times those of us here live in, is almost non-existent, and high school and adult classes aren't as available as you city boys would think......and, this is true even less so now than it was a half century ago. We did have a lathe in my high school industrial arts shop, but I don't recall anyone actually using it. Some might have, but we didn't have an instructor that knew how to turn.....and, in any case, I was more interested in other things, anyway.

I can only speak for myself, but when the interest in turning struck me, I was long past high school age, and living in a very rural setting. There wasn't the opportunity for me, and I'm betting the great majority of those who took up an interest back then, were still limited to books, or if they were fortunate, knew someone who turned. Times certainly have changed, and as Bill pointed out, there has been an ever-increasing number of people who can give some instruction in more recent times. Most everyone, these days, are being taught the techniques that have been generally accepted as "the given" way to turn......the "herd think". This leads to conditions that stifles individuality, simply because it closes the doors to possibilities that aren't within the limitations those methods are capable of.......but, of course, that is my opinion on it......and, that opinion is pretty much an abstract view which is left up to anyone else to decide it's validity as it applies to their own experiences.

Perhaps, at another time and place, things may have been different for me. As I look back on my journey, I don't see it as a disadvantaged course......I see myself as very lucky to have the circumstances that led to the turner I am right now, in this place and time.
ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think that around 25 to 30 years ago was when shop classes disappeared from high schools just about everywhere and I know one very fine teacher who lost his job when the school where my wife taught decided to eliminate all shop classes.

Our club brings in one big name instructor every year for about a week of classes. In some chases, the classes are to teach turning techniques and in other cases they are teaching some aspect of design. I generally try to enroll in one of the advanced classes because there is always something new and interesting to learn. One thing that I have noticed is that each of these instructors who teach turning techniques does things differently and each of them has their own preferred way of sharpening their tools. Because of these different approaches to turning I have learned to check what I know (or think that I know) at the door so that I can keep an open mind to what is being taught. Sometimes I will adopt some of the things being taught into my own techniques. Regarding your opinion about the "herd" mentality, the only possible credence that I might concede would be the openness to sharing of ideas for mutual benefit. And ..... by the way, it isn't a "herd", it's a "flock". Baaaaaah! Baaaaaaah!