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Rolling Blackouts and 3520B VSD

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Paul Gilbert, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. John Hammonds

    John Hammonds

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    Location (City & State):
    Bogart, GA
    I don't see a downside either. But I'm in no position to recommend something contrary to your owner's manual ... am sure you understand. No, that's not an extension cord. That's just a regular ole power cord from the outlet to the equipment. Personally, I want to be able to unplug the machine before I reach in to change the belt on the pulleys or any thing like that. I try to develop and maintain safe work practices for myself in the shop and that's one of them ... Just like I would unplug the bandsaw or table saw before getting my hands in them. And, as far as electrical protection for the VFD is concerned, see other posts in the thread regarding the need to unplug. I don't understand why Powermatic takes the position they do ... but I was just being the messenger. No need to reply. Take Care. Be safe. Over & Out.
     
  2. GRJensen

    GRJensen

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    FWIW, I put a plug on my 3520C. For me, it is easier to pull the plug than open up the breaker panel ... I'm a simple man.
     
  3. John Hammonds

    John Hammonds

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    Paul, the post Richard refers to is where I went to get the parameters for VFD changeout a couple of year ago. When I follow that link now, the embedded pdf wouldn't open. However, I still had it saved so I've attached it should you need it. Note that the old thread was focused on reprogramming the VFD to allow the lathe to run at slower speeds. I wasn't interested in that ... just needed the factory settings which the writer (one Scott Crumpton, I think) also includes. I did not have the writer's computer skills and did not try to program the new drive with a computer. I simply stepped through the menu on the VFD and plugged in the settings. It's not rocket science.

    By the way, I checked GALCO Industrial's site (where I bought my replacement) and they show that Delta inverter is now obsolete. They recommend a replacement model but I don't know how that would work. They do seem to have good technical support though.

    I did find what appears to be an OEM replacement for Delta VFD015S21U (my original VFD on my 3520B) at https://spwindustrial.com/delta-ac-inverter-drive-2hp-230v-vfd015s21u-new/. They seem to know they've got a hot item as the price is $656.

    So, If your VFD is indeed fried and Powermatic won't help, one of the above options might work.
    Hope that helps. Went through it myself & know it stinks.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Steve Tiedman

    Steve Tiedman

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    I'd agree regarding the power cord debate. If Powermatic says attach permanently (literally? why?) to a 20 amp, 220 volt circuit... if the circuit from the breaker is all 12ga cable, and you have a receptacle rated for 20 amp, and the plug and cord are rated for 20 amp (12ga type SJ cord, which is not just black extension cord), I think you are square with the electrical requirements. If there is fear of the plug coming loose from the outlet, there are styles that keep the plug secured in place. And type SJ cord comes in long lengths as well. I just used a 15' long section for my new drill press, bought in the electrical aisle of my local home imp. store. Didn't need to be that long but I figured, why not?

    Any electricians out there with access to the current NEC to reference a code article/section that would require a permanent connection of the machine to the circuit breaker, vs. a cord and receptacle?
     
    John Hammonds likes this.
  5. Paul Gilbert

    Paul Gilbert

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    Location (City & State):
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    I called Powermatic and talked to a tec. rep. He said that it is generally a capacitor that is the problem. On the premise that the drive is busted and, if I further muck it up nothing is really lost, So I opened her up. There are 7 capacitors on the main board. 270 microfarad 400 VDC. All appear to be in pristine condition. I guess that I could desoulder them, but then how do I test them? The only instrument that I have is a multimeter from the big box store.

    I went looking for a Delta S1 inverter and found several on Ebay, but they are VFD015S21D models. Mine is an A version and you are referring to a model U version. I'll call Delta Monday and see if there is any difference. I have Doc Green's programing instructions.
     
  6. Chris Lawrence

    Chris Lawrence

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    Do you have any old school electronic repair shops near you? I know there a dying industry but if you have one that can fix amps and stereo equipment they might be able to diagnose a capacitor problem.
     
  7. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    See my Post #31 earlier in this thread. I didn't have any problem opening the PDF, but I posted a direct link to the document anyway. Maybe the connection was slow when you clicked the link. I had to wait several seconds and there was no indication that anything was happening.

    I like to use Google maps to see what a business really looks like before actually buying online. Some of these entrepreneurs have fancy websites and leave the impression that they are a Fortune 500 behemoth, but a street view from the Googlemobile shows that they are actually a hole-in-the-wall in a strip center. Since we know what all of the parameter values for the motor are it isn't a big deal to find a different VFD to replace the Delta S-1. The Delta S-1 is very old technology and newer designs have better performance and the better ones can auto-tune to optimize performance with the motor.

    It's been a very long time since I took my master electricians course, but I believe that somebody grossly misinterpreted the NEC. It appears to me that they were misapplying the requirements for fixed appliances ... for example built-in kitchen appliances such as ovens, range tops, and dishwashers. Things that aren't permanently built-in such as kitchen stoves, clothes dryers, washing machines, and refrigerators do have cords with plugs that connect to wall receptacles.

    Electrolytic capacitors are pretty reliable and tolerant of voltage surges, but semiconductor devices (transistors, diodes, integrated circuits) will blow like a fast-acting fuse at the slightest provocation.
     
  8. Bruce Miller

    Bruce Miller

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    Location (City & State):
    Glen Spey, New York
    I'm just going to take all of your bad experiences from not unplugging and count them as my own so I don't have to go through all this.
    You can count me in as an unplugger NOW as well.
     
  9. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
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    177
    Location (City & State):
    Millington, TN
    Good choice. Turning off a lathe by switching it off or flipping a circuit breaker will not protect your electronic equipment if a lightning strike comes on the neutral or ground wires because those are not disconnected. A plug is the cheapest and easiest way to do disconnect all electrical paths. You’ll sleep much better during a storm assuming you make unplugging a habit.
     
  10. Paul Gilbert

    Paul Gilbert

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
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    Location (City & State):
    Allen, TX
    Update on VFD.
    The replacement drive arrived from China in packaging that would make a fine crystal goblet manufacturer proud. I have never seen this level of packaging.
    I ordered the D version of this drive. Mine was the A version. The only discernible difference between the drives is the new one has a small 2" muffin fan in a plastic shroud blowing over the finned heat sink. The heat sink on the A version was completely exposed with no fan. The braking resistor is stuck, with what appears to be some special type of two sided tape, onto a fin on the original. No braking resistor on the D model as I am sure it is a PM part.

    Question #1. For those of you that have a later model 3520b with a D version FVD - VFD015S21D - where did PM put the braking resistor?
    Question #2. I am reasonably sure that the tape that is holding the braking resistor is some type of heat conductive tape. What is it called, and where can I buy it?
    Question #3. The existing mastic sticking the resistor to the heat sink is thick - ~/16" - and pliable. It is going to take a long thin sharp knife to part this off. If I get it off why can't I just take an angle grinder, peel of some paint and stick it on the headstock?
     
  11. Joe Kaufman

    Joe Kaufman

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    70
    I have a 3520B with a VFD015S21U. It was a warranty replacement 3-4 years ago. The breaking resistor heat sink is mounted vertically inside the the headstock on the side opposite the belt changing door. it it secured to the cast iron surface with 2 screws. I can't tell if there is heat conductive tape under it. It is just to the left of the belt in the high speed position and just above the wiring access hole into the headstock. If you are going to drill and tap the holes you might remove the inverter and do it from the outside. Maybe the holes are already there. My resistor / heat sink is approximately 1 3/8" X 4 1/2".
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021

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