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Remote Demo pro/con

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Betty Scarpino, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. AlanZ

    AlanZ Resident Techno Geek

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    Betty, no need to wait for problems to speed dial... let’s catch up. The screen share approach is a good one for several demonstrators, and there are some ways to get the most out of that approach.
     
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  2. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    While I loved Emiliano's story to the Straight Turners about messing up time-zones...
    Our club (OPCAAW) is talking about getting a demo with Glen Lucas.. Apparently he doesn't want to do a demo at 2AM his time ;)
    So we are talking about shifting our time to a morning (local) to closer match his schedule.

    Virtual "stuff"
    I'm one of the senior judges for the Washington State Science and Engineering Fair. One of the few spring STEM fairs that didn't cancel. Instead we had a virtual fair to judge entries for the Broadcom Masters and ISEF (the international STEM fair).
    This required me to have both a ZOOM meeting open and a Go-To-Meeting open, at the same time. It took two computers to do it right, but it still worked. The students joined the meeting, did their presentations, which we could see and hear. Interacted with the judges, then the student would leave and the judges scored the entry.
    We couldn't do a complete fair, none of the awards from any companies, people or colleges were given (including the full-ride scholarships), but we only had a couple weeks to get things setup. If we had a year.... (yes they are looking at what we need to do if we have to go virtual next year).

    I've had a number of (other) club meetings via Zoom these last few weeks.
    I've seen about a dozen (out of I think 30) live lectures on PNW geology, watched by hundreds, with a live Q&A at the end
    Heck I've even been taking virtual martial arts classes. Not as good as in-person. But at least I'm not back-sliding.
     
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  3. Mike Peace

    Mike Peace

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    Good points, Al
    Re: your comment "Don’t hear the cutting sound of the tools", not necessarily true. Depends on the demonstrator's audio and software setup. You will see this change as demonstrators get more experienced. It may be as simple as changing a default setting in Zoom.
     
  4. Mike Peace

    Mike Peace

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    Sounds more like watching a YouTube video or a DVD. Might be a good option for small clubs or as a backup to a demonstrator that was a no No Show for travel issues or whatever. That is not the same experience as an Interactive Live Remote Demo at all where anyone can ask and get their question answered and is much more like what they would see at a live demo except they can't shake hands.
     
  5. Mike Peace

    Mike Peace

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    "Indeed money for demonstrator expenses is saved. Should the demonstrator charge the same fee as for a demo where he/she is actually there?"

    I am sure there will be clubs thinking they should get a price break on an Interactive Remote Demo or a aVirtual Club Meeting Demo. What they may not understand is that most demonstrators doing remote demos via the internet incur some substantial hardware and software licensing costs to be able to do these. Besides the normal prep time for a demonstrator, many additional hours go into learning how to use the new technology. Sometimes there is additional time testing with clubs just starting to do these and perhaps helping clubs with a trial run for members to get up to speed connecting from home for these “Virtual Club Meetings”. Clubs save money on travel but should not expect discounted demo fees.
     
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  6. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I totally agree Mike. I have to start the day before, set up, clean shop, and test all cameras. On the day of the demo, I do not do any other work, just the demo, and the breakdown. I could be working on a $500 Koa Calabash... Then again, we are not doing the IRD's because we are going to make a million $ doing it, we do it for the love of woodturning. I have finally, maybe, covered my expenses these past few weeks. It all adds up, lap top, software, cameras, cables, monitor, on and on...
     
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  7. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

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    Thanks, Alan .... more screen time! I'll check in after Tuesday's session when I'm sure I'll have questions.
     
  8. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

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    All excellent questions to consider as the field moves more and more into IRDs and IRPs. In my admittedly limited research so far, the going rate is $300 per 2-3 hour session (which encompasses the interaction before and after the official demo. And for those demonstrators who sign up individuals directly, it appears as though it's $10 per person per session, signup happening on the demonstrators' websites.
     
  9. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

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    Wonderful to hear the judging happened!

    For my and my attempt not to back-slide, it's line-dance class. Just as I was feeling confident, the class is now remote and not nearly as much fun, but I keep trying.
     
  10. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Betty I cannot vouch for all but our club will be paying Mike Mahoney directly and we will collect from participants on our club website. I do not see anything on Mike's site to allow such payment. I am Treasurer and not Demo Coordinator so might not have that perfect.
     
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  11. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

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    Gerald, so far, I've been told there are two methods of payment: 1) the club paying the presenter; 2) the demonstrator collecting directly from individuals who sign up through a website, usually $10.
     
  12. Dave Landers

    Dave Landers

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    I am now curious how clubs handle demo fees for their members... From comments here (and on the lucidwoodturners.com forum) I am getting the impression that some clubs collect from their members for each demo/meeting?
    Or are they just doing things differently for IRDs?
    My club collects annual dues and the demonstrator fees come out of that.
    Sometimes, when we bring in an outside demonstrator, there will also be a hands-on class or something similar, and there are fees for that, but those are outside our normal meeting/demo time.

    Just trying to expand my understanding (aka satisfy curiosity).
     
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  13. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Dave it depends on the size of the club and attendance. We are now meeting at a State Museum which allows us to meet and pay no rent and store our equipment there. WE currently have 55 paid members and that is no where near enough to pay for the aprox 6 paid demos we have a year. If we have a live in house demo we usually charge 15. We are trying 10 for the IRD but with enough attendance that could easily go down.
    Another way to look at the money we have 55 X 35 = 1925
    for a club I know with 400 members 400 x 25 = 10,000
    Now we see that the larger club can have all those demos and charge no fee.

    @Betty Scarpino As to the IRD demonstrator getting the registration fees there will have to be a guarantee somewhere or he/she will not get a full fee if say only 10 people register. So this may be a conundrum unless the club collects fees (also less work for demonstrator) and then pays the demonstrator.
     
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  14. n7bsn

    n7bsn

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    Dave for both the local clubs (OPCAAW and Straight Turners) "2 hr" demos are funded out of dues.
    I'm fairly certain that is the case at most clubs.

    All day demo's are usually funded by dues and fees.
    Classes we -try- to fund by straight fees
     
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  15. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    it is usually a mix for most clubs.
    Larger clubs generally budget 1 or 2 nationally known turners a year from dues and other income. Basically the full demos schedule is covered in the club budgets.
    Clubs here will often invite surrounding club members to attend - sometimes asking for a donation of $5-$10 for non members. The clubs I belong to don’t pay members for demos.
    Pay local demonstrators $50-$150 for expenses. And pay the National demonstrators whatever is negotiated.

    About every year an opportunity to get an unexpected demonstrator who happens to be in the area comes up with no funds to pay for it. These will often be added for a per head price after a member or leadership vote. These are generally outside of the normal meeting.

    the stay at home has restricted demos to mostly nationally known turners as since few local turners have the set up for remote presentation. So many clubs are asking for a $5 donation per demo having done one or two with the club budget.

    also most of the clubs around here will not ask certain members in financial difficulty for money but offer them a clean up job and announce the cleanup crew gets in for free.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
  16. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    Betty I attended my first online demo last night. Craig Timmerman did an outstanding job. There were 60 people viewing. I thought I would have trouble staying awake because wood turning videos tend to put me to sleep but that was not the case. We did have one instance where we lost Craig but he got it back up in about a minute or less. He said Spectrum dropped it which doesn't surprise me. He had 3 cameras and we were able to ask questions verbally or could type in a message in the chatroom. The only thing missing was the fun I have talking to people before the meetings. And then of course I missed the hour and half drive back home at 9 oclock at night. NOT. The cameraderie, instand gallery, tool sales, and checking out what's in the library was all missing. The Demo itself was probably better due to good camera usage by Craig although the TAW has an excellent camera system and operator.
     
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  17. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

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    I'm finding it fascinating that my attention is alive during a (good) live, interactive, remote demo when that's not the case when I try to watch most CD demos and YouTube videos, even though there are many excellent ones. It's still not the same as meeting in person, but this is what we have for now, and it's working well for many of us.

    For my presentation on bowl and vessel design last evening with the Lancaster club, several members gave excellent feedback that I will use to improve the content of my PowerPoint presentation, such as setting the talk in a broader perspective and including more images of my work, as well as a few process images. The technical part went really well.
     
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  18. Bill Szydlo

    Bill Szydlo

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    I have been able to attend a couple online demos lately and generally have really enjoyed the experience. Obviously there were a few slight issues, the most prevalent being quality of the demonstrator's mic but there are always learning pains with any new endeavor. For me personally, I usually drive an hour each way to club meetings and usually sit toward the back. Basically I'm watching the demo on the video screens so it really is no different online. There has been mention of the lack of interaction and I believe that is a problem if you are accustomed to it at meetings. Since I basically go for the information, online actually saves me time and works better. This has me wondering if the AAW should offer an online approach with the annual symposium? Granted there are a lot of in person activities that one would miss but it would provide the opportunity to learn from the demos without all the associated expenses such as travel and lodging.
     
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  19. Betty Scarpino

    Betty Scarpino

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    Bill, it is my understanding that the AAW will be offering some form of online/live symposium, and perhaps in June.
     
  20. Peter Misiaszek

    Peter Misiaszek

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    I've attended three, one of them, twice. I really like the format. The camera work was very good, so I could see exactly what was being done. And, I could hear much better. The live demos I've attended, particularly at the FL Symposium, have been a problem for me. Good sight-line seating is at a premium, the camera work often isn't the best, and personal chats between attendees have often interfered with the demonstrator's dialogue.
     
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  21. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    I just attended a Cindy Drozda IRD. And Wow. Much better in my opinion then being at a demo in person. She is doing it right!
    I can see it being a problem for a beginner needing an instructors guiding hand. But any one with woodturning skills, the zoom demo gives you front row seating, ability to ask questions. Etc etc.
    And I could attend one of these every week for the price I paid!
     
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  22. Dave Hulett

    Dave Hulett

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    Sorry I missed this thread until now, but I enjoyed reading everyone's comments. How things have changed in the past two months.
     

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