Reeves on Delta 46-450

[Dan C.]

Hello all,

I've been looking at a few older lathes recently to purchase for my first lathe. There are a couple other threads about the lathes in particular. Well I had a chance to inspect the Delta 46-450 today and have a few questions. I don't have experience with the reeves drive, so I guess I'm not sure what to expect, I want to make sure there isn't something really wrong.

First, the lever that changes the RPM's won't fully lock, so it doesn't hold a constant speed, is seems to slip back to what I assume is the neutral point between the pulleys. I'm assuming this won't be too hard of a fix, but any pointers?

Secondly, that same lever seems to have a lot of "play", as in it seems to rattle a bit, and you can feel the movement of the belts on the pulleys through the lever. Is this normal?

Finally, when increasing the rpm's it seemed to take a second or two for the actual speed to catch up, like it had to rev up to the rpm's I settled on. Is this ok, or is it a sign of an issue somewhere?

Obviously, I don't have any experience with this system, so any input or advice is very much appreciated!

Other than those questions, and possibly a new bearing, the lathe really is in nice shape. Not QUITE as nice as a Delta/Milwaukee 1460 I looked at as well, but the 4-speed concerns me that I won't have enough variation in speeds. but that discussion will be on a different post!

Thanks!!

Dan

 

[fred holsclaw]

stay away from reeves drive
they will break and you will repair more than you will turn


had a 1442 jet two years old and had to rebuild it 4 times

 

[steelguy]

Reeves are fine

Reeves drives have been around for many decades. They are made for fractional hp up to to several 100 hp applications. Properly sized to the job, they work well. I have had experience with two different ones and no issues. VFDs have been in existence a much shorter time - they are great when the work, but when they don't they cause nightmares. I would not be afraid of any lathe just because it has a Reeves drive.

To answer the original questions - if it won't hold speed, something is out of adjustment. Yes, it is normal for it to take a few seconds to adjust to a new rpm setting - up or down in speed.

Jerry

 

[Richard Coers]

That is similar to the first lathe I owned. You can adjust the center shaft of the handle to increase the "hold", unless the steel is worn on back of the handle base. They do take a lot of maintenance. It would have to be really cheap for me to be interested.

 

[Bill Boehme]

In principle, Reeves drives are good, but the way that many woodturning lathes are built using Reeves drives leaves much to be desired. While many variable speed riding mowers use Reeve drives without a problem, the drive components on lathes all seem to be maintenance headaches because of using cheap materials like die-cast zinc rather than machined cast iron or steel. Unless you like working on machines more than turning wood, stay away from them. The voice of experience.

 

[MichaelMouse]

A split. Would not be if the detractors had ever worked with a real Reeves, as you have in the 46-450 rather than the current pieces of tin. The one on the Delta was built for the ages, but operators who keep trying to adjust speed without having the lathe on can chew up some shafts resulting in the drop you mention. There's a caution there - don't mount a heavy and then check the speed. It leads you to try to do the wrong thing(s) out of laziness.

Can't troubleshoot from a distance, but any reputable seller would surely allow you the adjustment and evaluation time to see if you have all the adjustment necessary to get things back into shape. Ask.

Do not fear the Reeves. It's honest, mechanical and striaightforward, not a magic box full of electrons. You can fix it rather than trash and replace.

 

[Joe Greiner]

Lubrication

The pulleys on a Reeves drive consist of two flanges for each pulley, one flange fixed and the other movable. The movable flanges must be free to slide along their shafts. If they're not, bad news. I'm currently overhauling one in which one of the "movable" flanges was seized on the shaft. I had to shatter the flange, and destroy its hub, to allow replacement of the pulleys (for other reasons). Luckily, it's only pot metal. And also luckily, I have a spare copy to use in the meantime.

The seizing seems to have arisen from rust in the shaft's keyway, which pushed the key deeper into the keyway on the pulley flange. Proper lubrication could have prevented that, or reduced its effect. To quote Don Garlits, "Oil is the cheapest thing we've got. Use plenty of it."

I can't address the question of inability to hold speed. Mine are 10-speed, and have detents to lock the speed handle. YMMV.

 

[Dave Moore]

The reeves drive on this model is not near as chintzy as on some others, as MM says, but they do have to be maintained, and especially lubricated and cleaned routinely.
I certainly would not avoid a lathe simply because it has a reeves drive, but I would avoid one with a crappy reeves drive, or one where the drive was totally worn out from neglect and for which parts are no longer available.
I'm not sure what parts would be available for this model. You might check to see. And certainly be forthright with the seller about needing time to evaluate its condition in the event you decide you want this lathe.
That would really require complete disassembly and examination to be sure of what you've got. Not so tough really unless something is galled onto a shaft or whatever, which would not be unusual in a neglected unit.
Tricky, isn't it?

 

[Bill Boehme]

The reeves drive on this model is not near as chintzy as on some others, as MM says, but they do have to be maintained, and especially lubricated and cleaned routinely.
I certainly would not avoid a lathe simply because it has a reeves drive, but I would avoid one with a crappy reeves drive, or one where the drive was totally worn out from neglect and for which parts are no longer available.
I'm not sure what parts would be available for this model. You might check to see. And certainly be forthright with the seller about needing time to evaluate its condition in the event you decide you want this lathe.
That would really require complete disassembly and examination to be sure of what you've got. Not so tough really unless something is galled onto a shaft or whatever, which would not be unusual in a neglected unit.
Tricky, isn't it?

I am glad to hear that Delta made a lathe with a decent Reeves drive. You and MM are right that a well built Reeves drive is a great piece of machinery and there is one significant advantage that Reeves drives have over electronic speed control: the available power at the spindle does not decrease as the speed is decreased. I was forever tuning up and replacing sheaves on my 46-715, but when it worked, it worked well (for a while).

Getting replacement parts is a big question, especially now that Delta is a part of B&D. I have a Delta stationary planar that is only about ten years old, but out-of-stock parts are no longer available because they declared the machine obsolete. Apparently, the new philosophy is out-of-production = obsolete.

 

[Roger Chandler]

Delta now owned by Stanley toolworks

I am glad to hear that Delta made a lathe with a decent Reeves drive. You and MM are right that a well built Reeves drive is a great piece of machinery and there is one significant advantage that Reeves drives have over electronic speed control: the available power at the spindle does not decrease as the speed is decreased. I was forever tuning up and replacing sheaves on my 46-715, but when it worked, it worked well (for a while).

Getting replacement parts is a big question, especially now that Delta is a part of B&D. I have a Delta stationary planar that is only about ten years old, but out-of-stock parts are no longer available because they declared the machine obsolete. Apparently, the new philosophy is out-of-production = obsolete.

Delta and Porter Cable were bought out recently by Stanley Toolworks of New Britain Conneticut. There is a lot of uncertainty now about how all the different divisions are going to shake out. I know that what used to be the "Firestorm" line of B&D is now the newer Porter Cable lineup of tools.

The PC now is basically homeowner stuff, {except the routers, which will remain as they are] and the contractor grade is Dewalt. Slimming down overhead and competing lines of tools is what they are doing, and the DELTA line up seems to be getting reduced some. This info came from a dealer who I do business with.

Also, Bosch has merged with Freud, and they will continue most of the manufacturing lines as they are with some minor changes. Freud will now make all Bosch blades and bits.

Additional: these developments may indeed have a bearing on the availability of replacement parts

 

[Robert Manning]

I was forever tuning up and replacing sheaves on my 46-715, but when it worked, it worked well (for a while).

Bill, I have a 46-715 which I purchased from a San Diego club woodturner who was upgrading to a Vicmarc. I have given this lathe a lot of action in the last two and a half years, and it hasn't missed a beat, except for last night when the belt was slipping at the high speeds. After removing the cover, I discovered that the two set screws on the fixed side of the motor sheave were loose and this was causing the sheave halves to hang up, so I removed all the parts from the motor shaft and serviced them. Now it works smoother than ever. This lathe is not up against a wall, which makes servicing easy.

The motor is only 3/4 hp, but the head swivels, which is great for hollow forms. I have also turned some pieces up to 27" diameter with no problem. When starting large or heavy pieces, with the lathe set at its lowest speed, I spin the mass with my hand as I power it up, just to baby the motor and drive. This lathe has a lot of life left in it, and the Reeves drive seems reliable and convenient.

If a Reeves drive became worn or damaged, it could be troublesome, but if properly designed and maintained, it could last a lifetime.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Robert, I have a box full of worn out pulleys from this lathe. There also was some other defective parts that was causing the pulleys to fail. I incorporated a number of design improvements in mine and machined some custom parts to get a better fit and smoother operation. I also have had set screws come loose. If you check more closely you might find some stress cracks radiating out from the set screws in the hub of the fixed half of the motor pulley. Since the metal is soft, do not over tighten -- use Loctite instead. I found that heavy silicone grease on the sliding half of the motor pulley works better than the standard bearing grease with moly or lithium grease. I also designed a viscous damper for the spring on the motor pulley to greatly reduce chattering and polished oversized keystock to reduce some of the clattering from the pulley and get smoother motion. The original keystock on my lathe was heavily caked with deep pitted rust from the day that I got my lathe. The spindle on my lathe was also crooked so they sent me a new one along with bearings and pulleys -- essentially everything except the casting and motor. By the time that I was through, it was a far better machine, but with the soft die cast zinc pulleys, that was as far as I could reasonably progress. Also, the original yoke mechanism was defective and the follower rod was loose and the mating hole in the casting was way over sized -- meaning that, in essence, there was no follower rod. I machined new components to fix that, too. Now all of that stuff is removed and I am part way through a slow process of modifying it for an electronic variable speed drive.

 

[Robert Manning]

Wow Bill, I'm sorry you have had so much trouble with your machine. Perhaps they are of a different vintage. I think mine is from around 2004. It came with a new set of spindle sheaves, but I have not needed them. The motor shaft has a spiral grove in it which carries lube for the sheave. Does yours have that? It also has two circumferential grooves on the end; one for the two set screws and one on the very end for a circlip in case the set screws come loose, I guess. I checked the spindle shortly after I set it up with a dial indicator and it was dead on.

The previous owner was heavy handed with the tool rest locking handles and snapped some off and so he provided me with some spares. The tailstock was very difficult to turn when I got the lathe and this was exasperating when drilling. I finally figured out that the locking handle had been swapped out on the tailstock with the wrong type. The correct one was in the tool box, so I simply installed it after cleaning up some of the burrs and now I can spin it and it coasts for a couple revs and operates smooth as glass. I guess I got lucky.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Wow, that is heavy handed to break off a metal locking lever.

Delta customer service was always very nice and gave me any parts that I said that I needed without charge. They also said that any time before the two year warranty expired, I could return it for a full refund if I wanted to.

 

[rjones]

sounds like this the first lathe that you have looked at, The way you are describing things I would not get in a hurry on this lathe shop around a little you should be able to find one that is in better shape. If there is a lot of miles on the reves drive and it has not been matained it can be problems and if you are not good at fixing things, It could not be fun. Finding parts can be a problem also. Good luck