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Quick release adapter

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by Ira Davis, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Ira Davis

    Ira Davis

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    New member. I would like to construct a quick release handle to accommodate a variety of shank sizes. Sizes not shapes. Removing the gouge from the handle seems like a better way to sharpen the tool than with the handle still attached.I was thinking of using an ER32 collet system since they can be found in a wide variety of sizes and are fairly inexpensive. Just need a new collet to fit the shank of the tool. The trick is finding a collet holder that doesn't weight between 2 and 5 pounds and is small enough (outside diameter) to fit into a reasonably sized tool handle. So, does anyone know of a collet holder that might work? Or is there a good quick release system that meets my criteria?
    Just starting out so I have only two of Doug Thompson's bowl gouges at the moment (both needing a handle). I thought about using the QR units from Jimmy Clewes but those are specific to Doug's tools and while they might fit other tools, as Jimmy says, 'I can't guarantee they will'. I'd like to have the freedom to use gouges from other manufacturers without having to buy adapters that may not even exist. ER-32 collets can be found that will fit almost any diameter and they are relatively cheap ($5 or so for good old Chinese stuff). I'm not a machinist so making my own collet holder an't gonna happen.
    So what do you guys/gals think? Am I way off base or is there something out there I don't yet know about that will work?
     
  2. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome to the AAW forum, Ira. You might want to consider that one size handle doesn't work well for all size and types of tools. As you know there already exists various handles with collets such as the one that Johannes Michelsen sells that fits ½" shanks and comes with a sleeve for ⅜" shanks. As you mentioned, Jimmy Clewes sells handles with collets or just the collets so that you can make your own handle.

    Even if you do go with having this type of arrangement (which I think is a good idea for bowl gouges), a bowl gouge handle will be too long for most spindle gouges. There are many other tools that are made from flat bar stock.

    From my own experience of sharpening turning tools, bowl gouges are the only ones where I would like to remove the tool from the handle ... and that is only for certain grinds with long wings such as Irish, Ellsworth, and Michelsen. FWIW, two set screws holds a tool quite well and is quicker than changing inserts in a collet chuck. I took a class with Michael Hosaluk on Friday and used his tool handles which have two set screws ... maybe not as elegant as a collet, but does the job.
     
  3. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    First, gouge shanks come in a limited number of sizes. 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 are the ones I'm aware of. You don't need something with an infinite range of sizing. Most of us use just 3/8, 1/2, 5/8.
    Second, one approach to this issue is to use sleeves rather than a collet. I believe Trent Bosch offers a system that can accommodate multiple sizes. Most of the sleeve systems are designed to adapt to the next size down only, as far as I'm aware, but this may be enough.
    Third, there are a couple of handles that have one size in one end and a different size in the other, which would allow you to deal with 2 gouge sizes. (Hosaluk, Oneway, for example)
    As Bill points out, you will likely want a longer handle for a 5/8 bowl gouge than you will want for a 3/8 spindle gouge. Having more than one handle is likely if you're as much of a tool junkie as the rest of us.
    Finally, Woodcut, SB tools (Woodworkers Emporium) and Robust make collet turning tool handles in a tolerable size. Robust also sells the collets to fit in whatever handle you want to make.
     
  4. Clifton C

    Clifton C

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    Um... Bill ? You cannot have that kind of fun and not share...

    IRT
     
  5. Clifton C

    Clifton C

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    Ira, welcome. I use set screws but probably because that's what I started with. Some I bought, some I made. I like the heft of the big Oneway handles for roughing bowls and such and the lightness of the Trent Bosch handles for more finesse and detail work. Some I like cause they look like a branch... I would guess most tools can be gripped either or, set screws or collets, so, take the plunge, as Dean said, you will probably end up with more then one handle. Other then being easier to sharpen without a handle, some other things to think about when making your own handles. Being able to shorten the tool by sliding it into the handle can help with smaller more detailed work, also, being able to reverse the tool for travel is another bonus. I know the tool shank is hardened steel but I don't want to mung it up with a set screw, so I grind the end sort of flat just to be sure...
    Set screw handles 5.JPG
     
    hockenbery likes this.
  6. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Ira, well, the AAW Symposium is coming up in Raleigh, which is at least in the same state. Best place to check out the variations is in the vendor area, which is free admittance... Maybe I shouldn't tell you about that..... I don't have a tool buying problem, it is all for research....

    robo hippy
     
  7. William Rogers

    William Rogers

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    Welcome Ira. I only have removal tool handles for my bowl gouges and one spindle gouge. Removal only for sharpening. Every tool I have has its own handle. I just started making my own collects using set screws, but that may be down the road for you.

    IMG_2227.JPG
     
    Gerald Lawrence and Clifton C like this.
  8. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    This was the first time that I have done any turning since my back surgery in December and while it was interesting and "fun", it was rather fast paced and I was thoroughly whipped by the end of the day. The "fun" part was when the Grizzly mini lathe that I was using suddenly became engulfed in flames (I'm talking "towering inferno" class flames) when I flipped the switch on. Of course that ignited all of the nearby shavings. Fortunately, I was able to shut the power off and we stomped out the burning shavings before things got out of control. My best guess is that the power switch which isn't environmentally sealed was full of wood dust and the inside of the headstock was also full of wood dust and chips. The initial flash caught the plastic housing of the speed control on fire. The lathe was partially disassembled to do a postmortem, but the electrical innards were basically burnt toast. The headstock was damaged, but salvageable and the motor appeared to be OK. Does that count as fun?
     
    Mark Jundanian and hockenbery like this.
  9. Clifton C

    Clifton C

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    Fun ? Well, maybe not today... But think, you will be able to look back on this and laugh and laugh...:):);)
    Hope everyone is ok.
     
    hockenbery likes this.
  10. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    No
    but when I have one of those days I take solace in that if it weren’t for bad luck some days I’d wouldn't have any luck at all.

    Since this was a class did Michael size upon it as teaching moment?

    Summer of 68 I worked for Wackenhut as Senator Hruska’s GOP convention driver.
    They provided new Chrysler whose engine caught fire just as I was pulling into the Eden Roc hotel with the senator’s chief of staff. Apparently this was frequent occurrence as the bell captain and valets popped the hood and put it out within seconds. Then the fire department searched in vain for more fire, a new car was delivered, on nomination night the Senator gave me a pass to the convention and got to eat a hot dog with Mike Wallace - luck changed to good. Just as you were about think this has nothing to do with woodturning, years later
    I met Roman, the senators son, at an AAW Symposium.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    Emiliano Achaval likes this.
  11. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    And, Hruska is the surname of my mother's side of the family ... of course about half of the population of Czechoslovakia were Hruska's.
     
    hockenbery likes this.
  12. William Rogers

    William Rogers

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    I've researched thousands of $$ of tools there.

    So are you saying that you forgot how to properly turn on a lathe since you hadn't turned since December.
     
  13. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I must have gotten it confused with my Wolf & Grizzly outdoor grill. I guess that I didn't really need the charcoal lighter fluid to get 'er fired up. :D
     
  14. Stan Semeniuk

    Stan Semeniuk

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    Hi Ira,
    Here are a couple I made with Michael's collets. I find they work very well and are a good project for learning. handles.jpg
     
  15. Zach LaPerriere

    Zach LaPerriere

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    I too like the collet tool handles and set-screws, but for lots of sharpening, I wanted something faster. The fastest change in the West are D-Way's quick change knobs:

    http://d-waytools.com/handles/quick-change-knobs/

    It only takes one knob per handle, not two set screws for bowl gouges.

    Dave's handles come in two sizes for shank diameter: 1/2" and 5/8", which work for his tools from 3/8" right up to 3/4". I just roughly ground down my old Thomsen gouges to fit Dave's handles, it was only a 1/64" or something like that. And I superglue one of Dave's 3/8" to 1/2" bushing adapters right to the 1/2" gouge shank so it can interchange with the 1/2" gouges in the same handle in the blink of an eye.
     
  16. Grant Wilkinson

    Grant Wilkinson

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    I made two handles using R8 collets. They are inexpensive and come in a full range of sizes.

    I don't use a chuck at all. I bought aluminum tubing with an ID of 1". The collets fit perfectly into that tubing. The collets that I have are threaded to take a 7/16" fine thread draw bar, so I bought threaded rod, turned a knob from aluminum to put on the end, and use that to snug the collet into the tubing. I wrap the tube with tennis racket wrap and I have a not-bad handle for low cost.

    If this does not make sense, Ira, let me know and I'll try to get pics.
     
    Dennis Weiner likes this.
  17. Hy Tran

    Hy Tran

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    The two Doug Thompson bowl gouges that I own have a slightly reduced diameter shank. I use Trent Bosch's tool handles, which work with any 3/8 and 1/2 (flute) bowl gouges (1/2 and 5/8 shank diameters) They use set screws, so they handle a good variety of tools (I'm sure they will work with mm-sized tools, for example). You'll see that some of the other unhandled tools don't turn down the shank. I don't have my tools in front of me, so I can't tell you how far Doug turned the shanks down.

    You can certainly make an ER-32 collet based system; check out what Robust sells for tool handles. The adjustability for an ER-32 collet is about 1 mm (a bit more than 1/32" of an inch, if you prefer US customary units). I'm pretty sure that a 1/2-inch ER-32 collet will squeeze tight enough to hold a 3/8" Thompson bowl gouge (3/8 flute, 1/2 shank), and if you should buy an un-handled Carter bowl gouge of the same size (or Oneway, or other brand), that you will be able to fit those in that 1/2-inch ER-32 collet.
     
  18. Dennis Weiner

    Dennis Weiner

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    image.jpg Ira, add portability and storage for additional conveniences of a separate tool and handle system.

    I own set screw and cam qr handles. When turning, I like the speed of changing the tools that the cam quick release handle provides. I own one handle with a 3/4” quick release mechanism. I mount a 3/4 adapter sleeve permanently on each tool. This concept works not only for round tools, such as gouges, but for tools that have tangs such as skews, parting tools etc. I also use it for my Andre Martel 3/4 hook tools and my Dennis Stuart 3/4 boring bar as well.
    You can either buy the adapters or make them yourself out of 3/4 inexpensive rod steel or aluminum obtainable from your local hardware store. The problem that you may face is finding a qr cam handle 3/4”. Mine was manufactured by serious tools who is no longer in business. Jimmy Clewes sells the hardware for the cam qr but only up to 5/8”. To have an all inclusive tool qr handle using insert sleeves I think that 5/8 would be too small. I have been searching myself for this cam-lock 3/4 mechanism, but have come up empty. If anybody knows of a source, please let us know. I want to construct a 12 inch cam handle.
    I will probably purchase the robust er32 hardware equipped with ONE 3/4” collet. I would not want to change out collets for different tools. It’s too slow for me.


    —————————————————————————————

    Above photo is a 3/4 cam quick release handle 18” long with an optional extension along with various Woodturning tools. The tools without the sleeves are 3/4 inch in diameter. Btw, The roughing gouge is 3” Across LOL.
    The 40/40 gouge front and center has a sleeve that I custom bored 3/8” on my woodlathe and tapped a pair of long set screws to secure the gouge to the sleeve and act as a stop collar. An item on My Woodturning bucket list is to replace all my wood handles with 3/4 sleeves.
     
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  19. Ira Davis

    Ira Davis

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    Thanks to everyone for the great info. I've been tied up at work and almost forgot about posting the question. My main purpose is to facilitate sharpening. If the tool removal is easy, I'm more likely to keep the tool sharp rather than trying to get a "little bit more" out of it.
     
    Dennis Weiner likes this.
  20. Russell Karkheck

    Russell Karkheck

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    FWIW, I really dislike having to use set screws for changing out gouges. I find them too "fiddly" and time consuming. As Dean Center mentioned, there is the Stuart Batty design (SB Tools) for collets that quickly screw in and out of his handles with just a couple of twists. The design is elegant - a 3/4" opening for which you purchase inexpensive inserts and epoxy both the insert and the gouge in. When you need to replace a worn out gouge, you just hit it with a torch to melt the epoxy, and put your new gouge into the works. There is even a custom-made insert that you can buy that will accommodate rectangular tangs. Check Woodworkers Emporium for pictures and prices. The carbon fiber handles that the collets go into are a little pricey, but are very nice. Just another option for you to consider.
     
    Ira Davis likes this.
  21. Ira Davis

    Ira Davis

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    I thought Stuart was no longer in the tools business. I like the way his handles work and I only need a couple so that may be the best option. Thanks.
     
  22. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I have a out 6 or 7 SB collects and handles. They are great. Woodworkers Emporium in Las Vegas sell them.
     
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  23. Ira Davis

    Ira Davis

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    I don't know how I missed this but Woodworkers Emporium carries ER32 collect handles. I ordered on a couple of week as a set (the 22" handle and 4 collets 3/4, 5/8, 1/2, and 3/8). Exactly what I was looking for. The handle looks to be carbon fiber and feels good. Not used it yet but looking forward to some shop time.
     

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