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Powermatic 2014 vs Jet 1640 EVS

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by James Slack, Jan 7, 2021.

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Powermatic 2014 vs Jet 1640 EVS vs something else

  1. Powermatic 2014

    60.0%
  2. Jet 1640 EVS

    40.0%
  1. James Slack

    James Slack

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    I am upgrading from the Harbor Freight 34706. My top priority is safety, with power being a close second. In my first two years, I have never needed the extra bed length, but It has been nice being able to leave the tailstock on the bed while not in use (which I think might be frustrating with a 20" bed on the powermatic). I would be all about the powermatic if it had the same 1-1/2 hp as the jet, but it has only 1hp. I do like the magnetic control box on the powermatic. I'm stuck guys, please let your experience guide me to the right decision. If you can think of a more appropriate option, please feel free to make suggestions. Thank you for your time and consideration.
     
  2. Timothy White

    Timothy White

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    Are those your only choices? If so, get the Jet.
     
  3. James Slack

    James Slack

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    No, but they are both in the 2k price range and seem to be (from my research) two of the better options in that range. I am certainly open to suggestions. Would you mind elaborating on why you would choose the Jet of the PM?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  4. Timothy White

    Timothy White

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    1 1/2 horse motor and 16” swing.
    I own the Nova DVR which is an older version of the Saturn it isn’t in the same class as the Powermatic 3520C or the Robust American Beauty but for $1999.00 and free shipping it would be in your best interest to research this lathe before you pull the trigger on something of lesser value. The Saturn has available bed extensions (20”) increments wireless remote and a swing away hinge. You can select the RPM you want before starting the lathe. The motor will sense a catch or a dangerous vibration and shut down before you can even think about hitting a panic button. This lathe has 1.7 HP on 120v 2HP on 240v. Go to the Nova teknatool sight and read the operators manual.I’ll hush now.
    Check out the link
    https://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-55241.html
     
  5. Paul Lajoie

    Paul Lajoie

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    Jet 1840. You’ll want the extra length for when hollow forms peak your interest.
     
  6. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    I suggest you consider the jet 1840. It has the 2hp motor and is 220v.
    This is a really nice machine.

    gives the capacity to turn 16” bowls easily.
     
  7. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    Grizzly model G0766 is a 3 hp motor, 22" swing, and 42" between centers, and has a more advanced inverter than the Jet lathes, and is a fine lathe. It uses an index pin for locking the spindle that you insert into holes around the spindle, but myself and many others have experienced really good service from that unit. Grizzly also has an 18" swing unit with 47" between centers with a 2 hp motor. model G0733....both are fine lathes and the best value on the market for a large lathe. Grizzly.com
     
  8. James Slack

    James Slack

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    In this instance, the 220v input lathe is not an option...unfortunately. My panel is full-up with no room for another 220v service. I do think I'd love the capacity of the bigger jet lathe. I just can't help but be drawn to the yellow...is Powermatic still considered to be better quality than Jet?
     
  9. Gary Beasley

    Gary Beasley

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    As far as the power box is concerned you can have an electrician run a pony box off your main box so you can have 220. I had that done, had my shop wired and hot tub wiring for a reasonable price.
     
  10. Kevin Jesequel

    Kevin Jesequel

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    This may not apply to you, but for anyone looking at this thread in the future, most residential panels allow for twin/tandem breakers to be installed to make room in the panel. If you already have a dedicated 120v circuit to your lathe location (which you should for a 1.5hp motor), it is an easy conversion to 240v. I recommend you take a photo of the breakers in your panel to an electrical supply house (not a big box store) and ask them if this is possible. If you would be hiring out this work, you could also call a reputable electrical contractor that offers free estimates in your area. If the breakers can be "twinned" and the wiring is in place to make the conversion, it shouldn't be more than their minimum hourly rate and $30-$40 in parts.
     

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  11. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    Went through the next lathe selection process ~ 3 years ago. I was also upgrading from the HF 34706. I chose the Nova Galaxi, the longer heavier older brother of the Saturn. Main reason I chose it is the rotating headstock and bolt on outboard tool rest. While the 16 and 18” jets used to have rotating headstocks, the did not have a great outboard tool rest solution. Jet discontinued the rotating headstock a couple of years ago. Perhaps someday when I have enough room a bigger lathe with a sliding HS and swing away tail might be in my future, but until then pivot HS is by far the best option for me. I like being able to get in front of a bowl for the id finish pass, and being able to swing a project out to the side to sand and apply finish is far superior to doing that over the bed.

    A sliding HS can accomplish most of the same, except the TS must be removed and then the lower bed extension is still down there in the way, and making the lathe longer. Anyway, A pivot HS fits my preferred way to work.

    The DVR motor is a very nice luxury included with the lathe. One caveat - the slowest speed is 100 rpm. Its a bit too fast for sanding oval 1 turn bowls, wish it went down to 30 or so. I always get the the speed up to at least 300 rpm to cut anything. Surface speeds are just too slow below that, and speed and torque control are excellent. Its very nice to have the 8 speed presets and no belt to wear or change.

    The length of the Galaxi gives plenty of room for a hollowing system and weight for out of balance work vs the Saturn. I prefer the sliding HS of the Galaxi/Saturn vs the fixed position of the Orion. I can push the headstock down the bed a few inches to make room for deep bowls using the outboard rest - cant do that with the the Orion. Been extremely happy with the choice.
     
    Timothy White likes this.
  12. James Slack

    James Slack

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    I haven't heard of a feature like this on any lathe! This sounds fantastic...might lose a hand, but at least I'd still be around to miss it. Is this feature specific to the NOVA? Or is this on the Jet and Powermatic as well?
     
  13. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    They are two lines from the same company that share many design features.
    IMHO the jet 1840 is equal quality to the powermatic 3520. A much better bang for the buck

    If you are stuck on 110 give the Nova DVR a look. The massive headstock gives it surprising stability.
    Our club uses one for a demo lathe.
    The controls are a lot better than they used to be but are still subpar for ease of use
     
  14. James Slack

    James Slack

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    With my top priority being safety, that nova dvr with the "chisel dig in and excess vibration auto stop" is looking like a really good option. I swear, I haven't ever heard of that functionality, but this seems like a feature that ALL rotating machines should have.
     
  15. Dan Moerman

    Dan Moerman

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    The Nova line is terrific. I have an xp from some years back, and it runs like the wind, slowing when necessary.
     
  16. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Never heard of "twinning." Worked in Lowe's electrical for about a year along with an experienced electrician. If I was running 240V, I would use a double breaker. I still have several spaces in my breaker box. Thinking of installing a 240V heater that has the appropriate NEMA plug.
     
  17. Kevin Jesequel

    Kevin Jesequel

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    I've been an electrician for 20 years. I've worked in Arizona and in Oregon. There are many terms we use that I have found to be regional, I guess thats one of them. A picture is worth a thousand words, so hopefully the one I attached to my previous post explains the twin or tandem breaker better than my description. You may also notice that I did use a regular 2-pole 240v breaker for my lathe, although they do make a quad breaker that could accommodate that circuit as well as another 2-pole or two single pole circuits in the space of two standard breakers.
     

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  18. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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  19. Timothy White

    Timothy White

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    The vibration/dig in shutdown feature is programmable as far as sensibility is concerned. The Saturn headstock rotates but doesn’t slide the Galaxy does both. The Orion just rotates it has the same DVR (digital variable reluctance) motor as the other two lathes + 18” swing.https://www.teknatool.com/wp-conten...ual-FINAL-Version-115-0917-011-02.12.2020.pdf
    Above link gets you the Saturn manual. The DVR motor parameters and specs are much the same between the three lathes. The link below gets you to the lathe page of teknatool.com
    https://www.teknatool.com/product-category/lathes/
    I am a mentor for my club when a student comes to my shop to turn I set the dig in/vibration setting to the most sensitive setting. I hear banging and swearing and complaining about having to restart the lathe but so far no ejected turnings and no bruises or blood.
    If you want to talk about any of this PM your phone number and I’ll call you.
     
  20. Steve Chu

    Steve Chu

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    I’m in the same boat — my breaker panel is full up and maxed out so they told me they can’t just add a pony breaker panel to add on. Still wouldn’t be prohibitive in cost but I’ve been looking at 120v lathes.

    The powermatic 2014 has its own fancy inverter and “delivers 1HP, 230V, 3PH performance.” It’s the only lathe I’ve seen that has said that. It is totally marketed towards 120v constrained turners. Does it really mean it has the toughest motor? I have no idea. Robust sweet 16 says it does 1.5hp with VFD on 115v. Nova Saturn has a VFD that claims 1.75hp on 115v.

    The jet 1640 appears to be 230v. The 1440 is 120v but the motor seems to be the same type as the harbor freight (reeves?) so I’ve ruled out the Jet models as they don’t a motor that can go super slow and go in reverse, for 120v. I still need to look at the Novas.

    Powermatic 2014: 238lb with stand, $2.2k
    Nova Saturn: 313lb with stand $2.2k
    Robust sweet16: 460lb with stand, $7k
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  21. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    The Jet 1640 is 110 only. It also has reverse. Slowest speed is 40rpm.

    you misread something - they do list 230 under the motor but not under the input.
    The Jet 1640 is 110 and the Jet 1840 is 220.
    When Jet came out with the new models a few years ago they dropped the 220 option from the 1640mbecause they had the 1840.


    This is from the Jet website.

    E98AA31F-271C-4049-86D5-FAD74D4CF5ED.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  22. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    For the Nova DVR motor - while it does have this feature I dont use it. I tried it numerous times at different settings and just found it to be overly sensitive on the least sensitive setting. For students its probably a good thing, but even light interrupted cuts on a bowl, especially with some imbalance, will cause shut down - not even close to any “danger zone”. I think its a great idea not well executed. They just need to broaden the acceleration that is allowed, by quite a bit.
     
  23. Steve Chu

    Steve Chu

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    Oh I was wrong! The jet 1640 is 115v and 1.5hp. I could only find a listed weight of 440lb from the Home Depot website which may be incorrect. $2.1k. So the Jet becomes very viable now.
     
  24. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    If you use a tandem breaker in your electrical service panel, you should double up on some circuits that don't carry much current, and install a full size 2-pole breaker for a motor load circuit that may draw higher currents for longer periods of time. Many of your lighting and convenience outlets will normally carry minimal current on the circuit and a tandem breaker will operate correctly for many years with a light load. If you have another 220V outlet you could possibly daisy chain the circuit to another outlet to run your lathe. For a 1-person shop you are usually only using (1) piece of equipment at a time, so you could have several outlets on one circuit and never overload the breaker.
     
    Timothy Allen likes this.
  25. Dennis J Gooding

    Dennis J Gooding

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    I haven't seen any mention of the fact that the Powermatic has 3 speed ranges and the Jet has only two. The extra speed range will go a long way toward compensating for the smaller HP of the Powermatic. I would be more explicit, but I can't find data on the torque/speed characteristics of the VFD motors used in these lathes.
     
  26. James Slack

    James Slack

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    I was afraid that the sensitivity on the Nova DVR would be a pain in the ass. I really do think the 2014 is the perfect design for me, but I'm concerned the 1hp will be too anemic. I normally like to maximize my cut, and I can see myself being incredibly dissappointed stalling out my new $2.2k toy.
     
  27. Gary Beasley

    Gary Beasley

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    Only time my DVR gives me any of that problem is when Im coring. Its just able to handle it but will kick off if I come too close to stalling it out.
     
  28. James Slack

    James Slack

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    What if you already had the stand for the powermatic and could buy just the lathe for $2k? Would that change your opinion? I actually pulled the trigger on the powermatic from Amazon and only the stand got delivered. Amazon issued a refund, but didn't make me return the stand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  29. GRJensen

    GRJensen

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    FWIW, I had a Nova DVR 2024 for a couple of years. I weighted it down with a couple hundred pounds of sand and performance was pretty good, but static electricity can raise cane with the electronics. I was buffing a piece with the Beall system one day and forgot to discharge the electrostatic buildup (I would often wear an ESD Anti-Static Wrist Strap) before I touched the button to shut the motor off. POW ... fried something on the circuit board. Teknatool's CS made good and sent a replacement, but that incident told me I should probably look for a replacement. Sold it for half what I paid for it and bought a Powermatic 3520C.
     
  30. Steve Chu

    Steve Chu

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    Laguna Revo 18/36 is 110v 1.5hp $2.75k
    Laguna revo 15/25 is 110v 1.5hp $2k.
     
  31. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    Its not a pita, it just isnt useful to me and it stays turned off.


    I havent stalled mine coring (Woodcut Bowlsaver) but I have stalled it with a very heavy cut, much more than normal for me, with a 5/8” gouge.
     
  32. Dennis J Gooding

    Dennis J Gooding

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    What I can show though is that the Powermatic with its 1 HP motor will provide much more torque than the 1.5 HP Jet for spindle speeds below 400 RPM if both lathes are run in their lowest speed range. Usually the need for high torque arises when roughing out or coring at these low speeds.
     
    hockenbery likes this.
  33. James Slack

    James Slack

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    Wow. If that's the case, I'd prefer powermatic all day. The only time I ever overload my cheap harbor freight is when roughing out.. and it's constantly overloaded during that process. I just roughed out a bowl and I felt like I was waiting on the lathe the entire time, even with 1mm cuts.
     
  34. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    I would like to see motor torque vs rpm graphs for lathes. I have to see the dyno chart , hp and tq vs rpm, for any motorcycle I buy, why not the same for lathes. I would be very interested in how the Nova DVR stackes up against other technologies. I know this - I have to take a very large cut with a 5/8” Ellsworth grind bowl gouge, probably 3/4 of the wing, to stall it out.
     
  35. Dennis J Gooding

    Dennis J Gooding

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    The issue here is not so much the the torque characteristics of the motors as it is the number of "gears" provided and the choice of gear ratios.
     
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  36. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Torque is certainly important but also important for ease of use is the sensitivity of the speed control for each speed range.
    That is how many rpm for each degree you turn the dial.

    when I’m trying to get a good speed for an out of balance blank the lower pulleys give so much more control in finding the right speed.
    Here is a chart showing what I mean. The speed ranges are obvious. The sensitivity is the rom range of the speed rand divided by 350. I assumed the pots under the speed dial turn 350:degrees. I rounded to a whole number. What many of you know is the top and bottom speed ranges are quite similar in 2 and 3 pulley systems.
    What you get with the 3 pulleys is the added mid range. The mid range on my ONEWAY is about the same as the that on the 2014 and I use the middle range most for finish turning hollow-forms and bowls. I often rough on the midrange if the blank is not overly out of balance.


    3F21F931-999C-4542-8C62-5E436A3C9F4F.jpeg
     
  37. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    Actually it is torque vs rpm of the motor, coupled with the gearing to then know spindle rpm and torque available. It all starts with motor performance characteristics and the mfr chosen gearing, then its a matter of some calculations and graphing it out, enabling objective evaluation vs the subjective we are forced to do.

    Sensitivity on the DVR is nonlinear. At higher speeds each degree provides more rpm. The dial has detents, I think ~ 20/rev of the dial. Fine speed adj is 5 rpm/detent below 1000 rpm, 10 rpm/detent 1k-3k rpm, then 20 rpm/detent 3k to 5k rpm. Then there is the “push dial” function which provides coarse speed adj, where it multiplies the sensitivity variably according to rpm. < 200 rpm, 20 per / 200-500, 50 per / 500-1000, 100 per / 1k-3k, 200 per / 3k-5k 500 per. Have to be careful using it at lower speeds. The 8 speed presets (user defined) make it very easy to get to higher speeds. The fine speed adj makes it easy to find the sweet spot with unbalanced work. It sounds more complicated than it is, and probably irritating at first to those accustomed to the more typical dial, but I have come to really like it.
     
    Mark Jundanian likes this.
  38. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    I was sure like you that owners knew this stuff. But they don’t need to once the have some presets they like.
    Buttons are Irritating plus. The DVR performs well when I can get it on a usable speed.

    Did a demo on a DVR a couple years ago on a DVR with the old controls. Speed change is slower than watching paint dry when pushing the up and down buttons.

    Asked two DVR owners if they could pre-set a couple of speeds for me. Both assured me they could do it. After 15 minutes they gave up and said they had set theirs years ago, never changed the presets, had no idea how the did it, but assured me it was easy.

    Demo took a few minutes longer.....
     
  39. James Slack

    James Slack

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    Well I think we have stumbled onto a whole new topic...Which $2k lathe has the most torque for roughing out bowls? I'll order it tonight if we can figure that out!
     
  40. Timothy White

    Timothy White

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    @ tools-plus.com they have both of the lathes you originally asked about.
    Here’s the breakdown:
    Powermatic 14 “ swing 1 hp/120v motor $2,399.99 + free shipping
    Jet 16” swing 1.5 hp/120v motor $2,299.99 + free shipping
    The Jet wins this battle hands down.
    The nova Saturn 16” swing has a direct drive (no belts) 1,75 hp/120v $1,999.99 + free shipping
    Nova Galaxy 16” swing same motor $2,499.99
    Nova Orion 18” swing same motor $2,799.99
    The Nova’s have the most torque and hp.
    Thanks for listening
     

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