1. Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Piercing?

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Mark Jundanian, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    If I were wanting to do some piercing how thick should the wood (maple) be? I think I've heard 1/8", but would 1/4" or 3/16" be too thick?
     
  2. William Rogers

    William Rogers

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    639
    Location (City & State):
    Haubstadt, Indiana
    Short answer is over 1/8” is too much. While it can be pierced, it takes way too long to do. 3/32 is a more ideal thickness, but at 1/16 may be fragile.
     
    Mark Jundanian likes this.
  3. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    So my wall thickness is varying between .08 and .16 inches. Do you think this is workable?
     
  4. egsiegel

    egsiegel

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    180
    Location (City & State):
    Baldwinsville, NY
    Home Page:
    I keep my pierced pieces to about 1/16"
     
    Bill Boehme likes this.
  5. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    7,487
    Location (City & State):
    Cookeville TN USA
    When I learned from Binh Pho the first piece i made to pierce had a varying wall thickness down toward the bottom. So I got to see first hand how hard it is to do anything thicker than 1/16". I have since done some with 1/8" wall thickness and it is definitely much slower and harder to cut through it. I've done thicker walls and used my dremel or foredom and man is that hard. Takes tremendous patience. The High speed grinder and a wall thickness of 1/16 is like cutting through butter and easy to control.
     
    Bill Boehme likes this.
  6. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Location (City & State):
    Hillsborough, NJ
    Depends on several things. Tool(s)? - air turbine (40-50k rpm) - only for very thin, delicate piercing. Dremel type (slower rpm) will work on thicker, larger, more open piercing - but, harder to control and usually a PITA to control. See John Lucas' post.
     
  7. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    Thanks for the responses. Not the reality I was lookng for, but there you have it. I'm between 3/32 and 5/32 so that's on the thick side.
     
  8. William Rogers

    William Rogers

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    639
    Location (City & State):
    Haubstadt, Indiana
    Tom brings up a good point. What are you using for piercing? I use a dentist handpiece and dentist drills. The dentist handpiece turns at 400K. If you use something 50,000 or less the tool tends to follow the grain, where it is not a problem with a dentist drill. As far as thickness that is a preference. I like 3/32 and feel 1/16 makes the piece a bit fragile if a large area is pierced.
     
  9. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    I was thinking I might buy the micromoter, but right now all I have is a Fordam. I wouldn't get to piercing this before January so there's some time to sort that out. I started thinking about piercing only because I've never been this thin before.
     
  10. William Rogers

    William Rogers

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    639
    Location (City & State):
    Haubstadt, Indiana
    Mark, I have a micro motor. I use it for many things, but not for piercing. I don’t think I have ever tried using the micro motor for piercing as I think it might be too slow.
     
    Mark Jundanian likes this.
  11. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    OK, then if I proceed I should look for a pneumatic set up.
     
  12. Donna Banfield

    Donna Banfield

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Location (City & State):
    Derry, NH
    Yes.
     
  13. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Location (City & State):
    Hillsborough, NJ
    Unless you buy an extremely high end / high torque unit the majority of the micromoters on the market don't have enough torque and will stall (depending on wood thickness) and most likely shut off frequently. Your Foredom probably has a 1/3 or 1/4hp motor and would be better, but its lower speed will want to follow the grain and be harder to control and the shaft is not flexible enough for comfortable and controllable cuts. My 2¢. ;)
     
  14. William Rogers

    William Rogers

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    639
    Location (City & State):
    Haubstadt, Indiana
    Mark Jundanian likes this.
  15. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    Follow up question. How do you handle finishes when piercing?

    Do you apply the finish coatings before or after the piercing? (I assume after). If you pierce first and then finish how do you coat the edges of the pierced areas? Spray? Wipe on?
     
  16. William Rogers

    William Rogers

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    639
    Location (City & State):
    Haubstadt, Indiana
    Mark I don’t do a lot of piercings, but usually use a spray for finish either poly or lacquer.
     
  17. Donna Banfield

    Donna Banfield

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Location (City & State):
    Derry, NH
    Piercing will leave the edges of the wood burned, whether or not there is a finish prior to piercing. So putting a finish on in advance doesn't give you any advantage. You'll have burned through that finish. I spray lacquer on the entire piece when it's completed.
     
  18. Lawrence Duckworth

    Lawrence Duckworth

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Location (City & State):
    Clermont, Georgia
    Ms. Donna, I'm new so....would I be out of line to ask you how you're texturing. I've viewed your work with kind of a dumbness/headshake.....
     
  19. Donna Banfield

    Donna Banfield

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Location (City & State):
    Derry, NH
    No, you're not out of line. It depends on the body of work you're looking at. I use a variety of tools to achieve textures; in my Soul Series texture is created with tiny dental burrs held in the same handpiece I use to do the piercing/cutting to create negative space. In some of the Soul Series pieces, I am using several different tips in woodburning handpieces to create those textures. Some of those tips are also the ones used to create the pieces in my Illusions in Wood series.
     
  20. Lawrence Duckworth

    Lawrence Duckworth

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Location (City & State):
    Clermont, Georgia
    After watching the Glynn Cox video the dental tools were my first suspects for texturing your "It Satisfied My Soul No. 19."
    Ive done some of the pyro type textures but they leave a burn, obviously:D....the dental tools look interesting!
    Thank You!
     
  21. Breck Whitworth

    Breck Whitworth Sharp Dressed Woodturner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Location (City & State):
    Gulfport, MS
    Home Page:
    I've done quite a bit of piercing over the years especially on my free will series. The Lord blessed I was able to buy the NSK to learn piercing with. Unfortunately, it was like having the perfect tool for wood surgery but no ability to turn thin enough yet to make piercing easier. I burned out my turbo cartridge trying to pierce wood too thick. I learned an expensive lesson that your ability to pierce well is directly proportional to your ability to turn wood thin enough to pierce. 1/16 to 3/32 is optimal piercing with the NSK that Binh Pho used. Like many have already said 1/8 is really too thick for easy piercing but it can be done using different rotary systems. I have found my favorite piercing bits from Tree-line USA. Once you realize that the very high-speed bits will burn the inside of your piercing holes, you can use that knowledge to give your piercings a uniform clean look. It's like most every new aspect of woodturning is knowledge, practice and experience will make your skills improve. Good luck and have fun learning.
     
  22. Lawrence Duckworth

    Lawrence Duckworth

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Location (City & State):
    Clermont, Georgia
    What kind of wood would you folks recommend for turning 1/16" thick?
    What's the best wood for piercing?

    My Son and I loaded about half a pickup of this today. He said his cows licked the tree to death about a year ago...:eek:
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    594
    Location (City & State):
    Invermere, British Columbia
    Looks like juniper to me!
     
    Charles Cadenhead likes this.
  24. Donna Banfield

    Donna Banfield

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Location (City & State):
    Derry, NH
    Green, always, and turn once to final thickness. If you try to twice turn, your success rate diminishes significantly. As you turn down the walls to that thinness, you will experience a lot of wall vibration, resulting in shattered pieces. When turning green, once to final thickness, you work from the edge of the blank, down about a 1/2" at a time. When you get to the wall thickness you desire, only then do you continue down the next 1/2". Never go back to clean up an edge; the wall is too thin, and has already begun to warp - remember, it's green wood, that has already begun to dry. As you continue down the wall, only remove enough wood from the center mass of the blank to allow your gouge to get down into the blank. The mass of wood in the center helps keep the walls from stretching outward. If you've ever tried to turn a thin walled bowl, and cut right through the wall at about 2/3rd's down, you have experienced the outward stretching of those walls.

    Straight grain, closed pore is preferable to the open grain. open pore like oak, ash, mulberry, walnut, etc. While it is possible to turn these species green to final thickness and pierce, the closed pore is easier. Woods like cherry, maple, birch, poplar, pear or apple are woods I like to turn thin and pierce.
     
  25. Lawrence Duckworth

    Lawrence Duckworth

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Location (City & State):
    Clermont, Georgia
    Thanks again for your help Donna. Me thinks the hook is about to be set:D
     
  26. Charles Cadenhead

    Charles Cadenhead

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Messages:
    119
    Location (City & State):
    Tallahassee, FL
    I think it's salt cedar.
     
  27. Russ Braun

    Russ Braun

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    70
    Location (City & State):
    Torrance, CA
    Every piece I’ve pierced has been a touch too thick! It is really a tough process if you don’t get it thin. I’m using the NSK air tool; a must IMO! Get ready for some smoke, use a fan to suck it away from yourself. Definitely mask up!!
     
  28. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    I see that my current project is too thick walled to consider piercing. But this is very good information for future reference.
     
  29. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    240
    Location (City & State):
    Eads, TN
    Home Page:
    OK, I confess I didn't even know what this topic was about when I opened it. After reading and seeing some of Donna's work I'm interested. I'm not nearly as artistic as she is or as many of you are but, I think I could try some simple designs to see if I can but - another tool more $ so will do some research and see what I can do with a basic setup.
     
  30. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    754
    Location (City & State):
    La Grange, IL
    I suggest the video that William Rogers mentioned earlier. Not a Hollywood production, but worth the time to watch.
     
  31. John Torchick

    John Torchick

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,811
    Location (City & State):
    Cleveland, Tennessee
    I don't have the patience for that. The latest issue of AAW has an article about Donna.
    Edit- Love NH.
     
  32. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Location (City & State):
    Hillsborough, NJ
    Looks like Eastern Red Cedar to me. I still have at least a half dozen logs in my shed that look just like those you showed. Here is an anniversary gift made in 2014 from ERC.....and it has piercing on the sapwood. :)


    [​IMG]
     
  33. Lawrence Duckworth

    Lawrence Duckworth

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Location (City & State):
    Clermont, Georgia
    Thank you for this thread Mark J. ...Very informative.

    Tom that's beautiful!

    I did a little test today to see what this stuff looks like. I was wondering if the red turns brown like purple heart? ...we'll see
     

    Attached Files:

  34. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,677
    Location (City & State):
    Lakeland, Florida
    Home Page:
    Eastern cedar does turn brown.
    Just like @Tom Gall pierced vase above.
     
    Lawrence Duckworth likes this.
  35. Breck Whitworth

    Breck Whitworth Sharp Dressed Woodturner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Location (City & State):
    Gulfport, MS
    Home Page:
    I have used soft maple and sapele for piercing, Here are a couple maple shadow dancers I call them and a sapele and ebony piece. I prefer kiln dried wood turned to 1/16 or 3/32
     

    Attached Files:

  36. Dave Hulett

    Dave Hulett

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2015
    Messages:
    125
    Location (City & State):
    Hot Springs, AR
    So glad I found this thread. I've been turning for 7 years and like to try everything and piercing is next on my list. I may reach out soo with questions! Thanks everyone!
     
    Mark Jundanian likes this.
  37. Lawrence Duckworth

    Lawrence Duckworth

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Location (City & State):
    Clermont, Georgia
    Dave, My hands couldn't take much more than 10 minutes or so of texturing with the Foredom or Dremel flex type tool, so I clamped the tool in a vise, and it worked quite well....enough to finish the project. Holding the workpiece with both hands also helped me with the grain control thing.

    btw, your Zipper Series are a scream...I love 'em!
     
    Dave Hulett likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice