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Nova Titan woodworm - what am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Lou Jacobs, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    I just received my new Nova Titan III, and it seems to be a beautiful piece of work. I’m looking forward to using it, but I’m stymied by one thing. The woodworm screw that came with it seems to be too short to protrude the 3/4” beyond the end of the PowerGrip jaws, as described in the literature. When it is mounted as instructed, with the head (boss section) up against the bottom of the jaws, there is only about 1/4” of the screw exposed beyond the lip of the jaws. Did they send the wrong screw? Am I missing something? If anyone has this chuck and screw, I’d love to hear your experience before I contact them to ask if I was sent the wrong screw.
    (I’ve laid it on top of the jaws just to illustrate the size side-by-side. Please don’t tell me it goes INSIDE the chuck!) 1C5E910A-05D7-4091-8006-7CF3C726E472.jpeg
     
  2. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    looks like you have some extended jaws on that chuck. The screw was probably designed for normal size jaws.
     
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  3. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    Yeah I think the Titan comes with taller supergrip jaws. Nova lists 2 sku’s for the screw but no descriptive difference. Contact Nova to see if a longer one is available. I never use any of mine - everything gets started between centers so I can tweak the center points as needed.
     
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  4. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Thanks John and Doug. I’ve just written to Teknatool to see if this was packaged with the wrong screw. I’ll let you know how they respond.
     
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  5. Russell Nugent

    Russell Nugent

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    With the woodworm screw with the nova titan I close the inside of the jaws on base of the woodwork screw where the flats are. I just assumed the instructions are probably not updated for this version. I only do this with tailstock support as anything I'm using my titan for I wouldn't trust just on the screw. I've only used it a few times, I start just about everything between centers.
     
  6. John Hicks

    John Hicks

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    It looks like they packed it with the shorter screw.
     
  7. GRJensen

    GRJensen

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    Got the same worm screw with my Nova Titan. I'm partial to faceplates for large pieces, so the screw just sits in the drawer.
     
  8. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    As Gerald said, that is not the standard Nova wood screw and looks just like the one that came with my Titan and power jaws. Mine is 2 3/4" long.

    The jaws, however, are different. In your picture, the closed diameter of the jaws looks like it's just smaller than the chuck, while my power jaws are significantly smaller than the chuck. My jaws are 1 1/2" long. If your screw is 1/4" shorter than the jaws are long, that would make the jaws about 2 1/2" long. My screw has most of the threads outward from the jaws.

    Has Nova changed the power jaws they ship with the Titan since I bought mine? If so, they may have sent you the screw for the older, 100 mm diameter power jaws.

    (It also looks like I shouldn't be keeping the screw in the line of wet from turning green wood as it's rusting)
     

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  9. Bill Blasic

    Bill Blasic

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    That is the standard screw for the Titan with the 5" Power Grip Jaws. When I use it (which is not very often) I tighten it on the head on the 4 flat spots, not optimal but have had no problem. I have never used it on a really big piece. I feel much safer using the Super Nova II and that screw (the standard 2" double ring screw) which has no chance of pulling out for any size wood I have turned. Most of the time I cannot unscrew the piece on the lathe as it gets so tight, I usually open the chuck and unscrew it with water pump pliers. My original Titan and the Titan III both came with 5" Power Grip Jaws which are the same size. The Titan II came with the 4" Power Grip Jaws as the slides only had 2 holes like all the rest of the Novas. I feel the Titan II was the biggest mistake Teknatool ever made (should have returned it immediately). I've tried to get new slides with three holes but they say it won't work which I think is BS.
     
  10. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Dean, the screw sounds like it’s the same as yours. This is 2 3/4” long in total. The head is 1/2” thick. My jaws are 2” deep. Bill, I thought of mounting it the way you do, but certainly would not inspire confidence. Curiously, the company has responded to my question with this oblique message:

    Me: “So is there a longer screw should have been included with this chuck? I often use the screw on my current (smaller) Nova chuck, and would like to be able to with this one as well.”

    Nova support: “That is right. But normally if you are using a TITAN with its size and bigger jaws are made to hold on to huge pieces and have a better grip. You wouldn't be using a woodworm screw in that case.”

    1A83A3F3-7BBC-4E10-919C-7CC5B4C2EB2E.jpeg 0C3A6A65-2BCB-4497-891A-8981CAD7D415.jpeg I’m waiting to hear if they have a longer screw, but am not optimistic. I think they just have not double checked their literature after they changed the size of the jaws.
     
  11. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Afterthought: if there is no longer screw, I suppose I could look for someone with a metal lathe to turn 3/8” of the head down to the shank diameter, which would leave me with a thinner head, but at least the potential to have 5/8” of exposed screw, and a 1/8” head behind the jaws. Not great, but something.
     
  12. Kevin Jesequel

    Kevin Jesequel

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    Based on their response and the part of the manual I circled below, it sounds like they assume that if you are using those jaws, you are exceeding the capacity of the wood worm screw and shouldn't be using it.
     

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  13. GRJensen

    GRJensen

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    Sounds like they would rather sell you a new chuck!
     
  14. John Hicks

    John Hicks

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    In other words; pick a confusing answer and go with that.
     
  15. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    I think you summed it up John!
    Here’s my latest response from Nova:
    “There is not. [another screw] That is the proper screw”
     
  16. John Hicks

    John Hicks

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    I am surprised you got them to answer! The jaws that came on the titan II, and the jaws that come on the titan III; are different. The screw is the same one. I have both, but the jaws on the titan III are a bit deeper.
     
  17. Russell Nugent

    Russell Nugent

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    I've always gotten answers from nova tech support.
     
  18. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    Lou I think you have the longer screw. I checked the screw that came with my G3 chuck, it is 2” overall length. It appears there are 2 choices - turn down the base as you described, or a different set of shorter jaws. I think the 2 hole nova jaws will fit the Titan chuck. Changing jaws kind of defeats the purpose of the screw in the 1st place. Nova recommends only going to 10” dia with the screw. I would think you would use the Titan chuck on much larger work.
     
  19. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Yes Doug, using it on larger work, including coring was the point of my getting this one. I will try to find someone with a metal lathe who will turn it down for me. That feels like my best solution at the moment.
     
  20. Gary Beasley

    Gary Beasley

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    For my part I would use a faceplate to start anything big enough to want a chuck that size.
     
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  21. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    In usual cases I’m comfortable using a woodworm screw and tailstock support to true up large blanks and make a tenon. I don’t feel like I’m taking an unnecessary risk. Not with this screw with only 1/4” of penetration, but if I can get it trimmed so I can have 3/4”, then I’m willing to work with it.
     
  22. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    I would NOT turn the base smaller. If you do that, you will be grabbing less of the base and are more likely to have the screw pull out of the chuck, which could be dangerous with a big blank. Since there's no need for long jaws with the worm screw, I'd suggest using regular bowl jaws and the standard worm screw. All the jaws are supposed to fit the titan chuck. (Interesting info on the different versions of the Titan, Bill. I did not know)

    (EDIT: John Hicks has some 100mm jaws listed for sale in the Marketplace)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  23. Bill Blasic

    Bill Blasic

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    There are two new jaw sets for the Titan III. Very good jaw sets! I now use these jaw sets for the Original Titan and the Titan III. They are 5 3/4" and 6 1/2" and those jaws would be better for using the screw with. I have not even tried the screw with these jaws. Will check later and give results.
     
  24. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Dean, I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding, or if I’m not being clear with my proposal. I’m suggesting turning off a portion of the screw’s head so that it will have a longer shank, but still have a head which will be secured behind the jaws. I don’t think it will be able to pull out, (although I understand that in the event of catastrophe, Nova would have a good defense that I had modified the part.). See my picture. the whole reason I bought this chuck was to be able to avoid switching jaws when going from rough turning large bowl on a screw to reversing them and putting in jaws. Isn’t that the reason most people own multiple chucks? To avoid having to repeatedly switch out jaws?
    Bill, I am curious about other jaws for this chuck. I do have a set of large (130mm?) Nova jaws which I guess would be good to mount on this chuck. I’ll check that out.
    I also wonder if any other manufacturer makes a longer woodworm screw that would accomplish my goal of being able to use it with this Power Grip jaws.
    image.jpg
     
  25. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    Your picture illustrates exactly why I would recommend against doing this. You will be squeezing on a very short length of metal and the screw will have a tendency to tilt out of alignment. It's your face, so do it if you want, but I wouldn't risk it.
     
  26. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Dean, I don't own any Nova chucks so my understanding might be all wrong. The way that I interpreted the way it works is that the jaws grab the shank of the woodworm screw and the head would be behind the jaws so there is no way that it could pull out nor is anything weakened by removing part of the head.

    My thought is to use shorter jaws, but then I don't know what Nova offers in jaws.
     
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  27. Sandy Jarrell

    Sandy Jarrell

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    Bill, you got it. The jaw slides match up to the flats on the screw head and the jaws fit around the screw shank. The screw is inserted with the head behind the jaws and the flats oriented to the slides. The jaws are tightened slightly and the screw is pulled forward by hand until the head is tight against the bottom of the jaws, then the jaws are tightened fully.
     
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  28. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Exactly! This is why I tried to show this part of the literature in my previous post.

    67CAB222-3D28-45A5-83A4-12364327EDB5.jpeg
     
  29. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    I have 3 SN-2 chucks and multiple jaws, but I've never used the Titan or those jaws. I don't know that I clearly understand Nova's thinking in offering a jaw set that is so deep? I wouldn't think a person would make a 1 inch tall tenon (or recess) especially when the dovetail is at the top of the chuck. But they did make the jaws and it does appear from what I've read above that Nova does not intend for those jaws to be used with the wood worm screws. I think the screw was included because you get one with every chuck.

    Lou, it's your call. You could modify that screw to give you some bite with those jaws. I think you will have reduced the holding power of the screw for a limited gain in convenience. But if it were me I would obtain a set of jaws that work with the wood worm screw. That's me, but I have no aversion to changing jaws (in fact I never leave the jaws on a chuck when not in use).
     
  30. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    The Nova power grip jaws are similar in design to Oneway tower jaws - a dovetail at the top for a short tenon for bowls/platters, and serrated further down for gripping long tenons for deep hollow forms and/or endgrain.

    I have not deciphered all of the dimensions, but if reducing the head thickness gets the bottom of the screw thread to the top of the jaws, and leaves 1/8” thickness below the jaws, then I would not be afraid to use it. Depends on the cost of getting it machined vs cost of different jaws, but different jaws means 2 extra jaw changes going from one piece to another, defeating the purpose of the screw.

    I prefer a point location, like a drive center, to locate on, allowing moving the center on both sides of the work to allow for grain or rim or whatever adjustments. You might consider a drive center that is long enough to extend past those deep jaws. There are a lot of drive center options available.
     
  31. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    Maybe I've overestimating the potential for trouble, but my Nova chucks grab the wide part at the base, rather than the shaft of the screw. At least that's how I interpret the burnishing of the fat base, suggesting that's where the pressure is. I see no evidence of marking or contact from the jaws. Certainly, the jaws are extremely close and I could be mistaken.

    It seems to me that grabbing 1/4" of length with a lever 2 1/2" long and 10 pounds of wood at the end, doesn't turn out well. (Dennis, I expect precise calculations of the physics)

    If the Nova is holding the screw at the fat base and the jaws are just a loose fit "stop", would that change your opinion?
     
  32. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Dean, you may be right about what part of the screw is held. And yes, if it is in fact the head and not the jaws, I’d be less comfortable with turning down the head. I’ll examine that more closely tomorrow. Thanks everyone for thinking this through with/for me!
     
  33. Leo Van Der Loo

    Leo Van Der Loo

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    I have no Nova chuck, but looking at the chuck picture and the woodworm screw, I see that the base jaws tighten against the lower flat parts of the screw's head and the higher parts sit behind the jaws, so the jaws do tighten against the round screw shaft and the higher parts do sit behind the jaws so they can not slide forward.

    Machining the shaft longer will still have the head sit behind the jaws, would seem pretty safe to me 1thumb.gif

    I'm glad I have and use the Oneway chucks and after 25 plus years of use I would never change, best chucks there are IMO
     
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  34. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I went to the Technatool site to read the instruction sheet for myself. What we have been calling the "head" of the screw is actually a "boss" according to Technatool. And, the instructions were unambiguous and exactly as Leo and Sandy described the way that the screw should be installed.

    If you are seeing burnishing on the boss then you might not be installing it correctly. The new version of the woodworm screw has dimples on the boss and the dimples need to align with the base jaws (also known as lower jaws on some brands). The old version of the woodworm screw has flats rather than dimples.

    The blank is not cantilevered out on the end of the woodworm screw. When the blank is screwed onto the chuck it is tightened until it is pulled tight against the top of the upper jaws. This means that the blank is not only being held by the woodworm screw but also by the considerable friction of the upper jaws.

    Even if you're doing it the "wrong" way when the blank is pulled tight against the upper jaws, the top side of the boss will be pulled tight against the bottom side of the upper jaws and that will result in a rigid connection.

    Technatool also gives some common sense admonitions:
    • Use tailstock support as long as possible.
    • Only use defect free sound wood. Punky wood should not be held with a wormwood screw.
    • Don't use the woodworm screw to hold bowl blanks larger than about 8 inches diameter ... experienced turners can go a bit larger. Platters can be larger because they are thinner.

    Here is a picture of the Nova Safe Lock Woodworm Screw just to verify that everybody is talking about the same screw.

    woodworm-screw.jpg


    Mike Peace has a couple of videos that describe the right way to install the woodworm screw.



    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI-utYAfXJI




    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEpgHu22mps
     
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  35. Bill Blasic

    Bill Blasic

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    That is not the screw that initiated this thread. The screw is shown at the top of the thread and has no flange. The flanged screw is about 2" in length where the one that comes with the Titan is 2 3/4" long and has no flange. Like I said I've used it by closing the bottom of the jaws on the 4 flats of the boss which will work but not as trustworthy as the smaller one that is impossible to pull out. Holding the 4 flats will not allow it to spin but still possible that it could pull out. Much better to use a set of the new jaws for the Titan or like I said use the SN2. As far as Oneway I have 2 chucks and both of the screws that came with these two chucks broke. The screws for the Vicmarc have always looked to thin and I never even tried them. I don't care for the screw system for the Axminster chucks and the Bulldogs screws look like the screw from Vicmarc so I don't use them either. I'll bet I have over 20 of the Nova safe lock in a drawer but have been using the first one I got that came with my DVR almost 20 years ago. I start 95% of my pieces on a screw big and small. Teknatool should either make the screw for the Titan safe or not ship a screw with it unless they are shipping it with a set of the new jaws. I told them that the screw is not right for the Titan years ago years ago.
     
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  36. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    I’ve sent a link to this thread to the Teknatool rep and asked him to clarify for me once and for all if this screw is intended to be used with these jaws in this chuck. I’ll let you know what, if anything, I hear. And Bill, like you, I start most of my pieces with a screw, initially shape and turn a tenon, then reverse into the jaws. That’s exactly why I wanted this screw to work with these jaws, so I could save the bother of either changing chucks or changing out jaws. Sigh...
     
  37. Leo Van Der Loo

    Leo Van Der Loo

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    I guess I should have added the picture of the woodworm screw from the OP, and describe how this woodworm screw is held in by the chuck's jaws.

    As I said before the woodworms boss has 4 lower flats that are grabbed by the base jaws, while the round shaft is held by the jaws, the higher parts of the boss sit behind the jaws, and they prevent the woodworm screw from being pulled out.

    Nova chuck woodworm screw.jpeg
     
  38. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    If there is any remaining confusion as to how the woodworm screw mounts on the SN2 I am poating some pictures with one jaw removed.

    Here is the screw chuck installed with a piece of wood mounted.
    20210118_102127.jpg
    Here is a better view of the mounting. Note that I am using my 70mm jaws. Nothing says you have to use only the 50mm jaws. I choose the jaws that are large enough to support the work piece, but not so large as to get in the way.
    20210118_102352_Burst01.jpg
    The boss is restrained from being pulled from the chuck by the spindle side of the jaws. The screw is restrained from rotating in the chuck by the jaw slides which engage the flats on the boss.

    The Titan screw is longer and lacks the flange between the boss and threads, but as you can see the flange has little purpose.
     
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  39. R Henrickson

    R Henrickson

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    As MJ remarked, I've used the Nova screw in 50, 70, 100, 130 mm jaws on a SN2 depending on the diameter of the blank I'm working with. I want a wider resting surface for larger diameters (up to 16+" with the 130 jaws). It should be noted that ALL of the jaws I mentioned are relatively 'shallow' as in the photo of the 70 mm jaws. NONE are nearly as deep as those in the original post on the Titan chuck
     
  40. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

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    Unfortunately the shaft of the screw floats free of the jaws. Maybe an 1/8” gap. I think this makes my question about turning down the head to the shaft diameter moot. I suppose it could be turned down just enough to make good contact with the jaws, but I’ll just go with the suggestion of using the regular height 130 mm jaws with the standard screw. Thanks Mark for stimulating me to take a closer look! Thanks all for the feedback and advice! DBA158A7-153A-43BE-8D6E-EE01E08C5CA6.jpeg
     
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