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New Shop started

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Damon McLaughlin, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    The contractor came by to put in posts for the doors today so we talked a little bit about concrete. I thought the slab would have been last but he's going to have it poured early next week then they'll to the girts, trusses and purlins, then the walls and roof. I won't wet the concrete while they are working but will keep it wet while they are gone.

    The nice thing about the concrete pad is I hopefully won't have to deal with skunks. I have one living under the wood floor of my shed. He comes and goes, puts out a very slight stink if I'm making too much of a ruckus. He's there four or five months out of the year, does a great job at keeping the mice and moles away.

    More than likely I'll put in a wood floor. In my shed I did OSB with cheap laminate on top but in the new shop I doubt I can afford laminate, even cheap laminate. I might do OSB boards but not sure how to finish them, don't want to look at OSB. But that's next year, or the year after.

    Costco has a great price on a MrCool 18k btu mini split system so that is on its way.

    I think concrete is coming for the posts tomorrow but other than that I don't think there will be any further work until next week. Its supposed to get into the 100s for the next few days and I can't blame them for not wanting to work in that kind of heat.
     
  2. Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    252
    I used burlap to cover the concrete and kept it wet for a week. Expansion joints are not used inside of buildings. As the name implies, concrete doesn't expand when the temp. does not vary greatly.
     
  3. Ron Solfest

    Ron Solfest

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    TN
    Planning a new shop is fun. I live in an RV community with BIG garages (mine is 18x92 +15x26 on the side for a car, back 25ft of 18 width is my shop - and my garage isn't close to one of the larger ones in the community). Lots of concrete goes down here every month. All of the concrete is machine troweled smooth, and then sealer applied the same day it's laid. The surface is a nice smooth concrete surface that's easy to sweep. Some have epoxy put on, but while that looks great it's frankly very slippery if it gets the least bit wet.

    If you have the ceiling height, I'd lay sleepers down and put a hardwood floor over that. Standing on wood would be preferable to concrete and rubber matts, I have a love/hate relationship with the rubber matts everytime I sweep...lathes generate a LOT of stuff to be swept up.

    Last comment on electrical, I'd recommend running electrical within the walls and make sure you have plenty of outlets like you're planning. In my 18x25 I have a couple dozen 120v outlets and about 10 240v. Run outlets in the floor for equipment in the center along with 6" PVC tubing under the floor from center drop (tablesaw and planer in my case) to the dust collector location. I ran dust collector pipe along the top of the walls around for items against walls, but you don't want to have a dust collector drop to the tablesaw; it's much better to come up from the floor. The dust collector piping does gather dust (ironic huh :) ) so it would be nice to have it run down throught the floor or up through the ceiling if you plan well enough in advance. For the same reason (besides looks) I'd run the electrical in the wall as exposed conduit will just be a dust collector.

    Have fun dreaming, and good luck organizing and setting up. You'll be enjoying it before you know it :)
     
    Damon McLaughlin likes this.
  4. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Damon, I wonder if I can ask you Costco's price on the mini split system? I went to their site to look, but I’ve got to be a member to see the price. I’ve been considering one for my shop and would love to know if it is worth joining. Thanks!
     
  5. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    The 18k btu DIY MrCool system was $1299, free shipping plus tax. That is about $350 less than anyone else. The 12k btu 115 volt system is $1099. For the price savings I would have paid for the $60 membership had I not already had one.
     
  6. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Wow! Those are terrific prices! Thank you! Yes, I’ve been finding $1,629 for the 18,000 BTU system.
     
  7. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
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    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    The site says shipping "five to nine business days". I assume mine should arrive late next week or early the week after. Its a great deal for either size.

    I should add. Anyone that is not a member can call Costco's 800 number and they will be happy to tell you the cost of any item if you provide the item number. They'll even sign you up and process your order during the same call if you so desire.
     
  8. stu senator

    stu senator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Delray Beach, FL
    Sherman Williams sells an additive to add to paint to provide some non slip to a floor paint. I used it in an epoxy paint (2 part) for my shop floor. It works. I put it down at least twice the recommended amount. Did it a few years ago so forgot its name, but it was under $10.00 for enough for a good size floor.

    Never put the recommended clear top coat on as that would cover the non slip surface.

    Stu
     
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  9. Lou Jacobs

    Lou Jacobs

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Damon, thanks for that information about Costco. I’ll keep that information stored away, and if I choose to go that route, will give them a call. Good luck with your shop. It sounds like it will be awesome.
     
    Damon McLaughlin likes this.
  10. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    I have a question for the couple of concrete guys here.

    When my contractor was prepping the site with gravel I heard him tell the guys that he forgot he was laying 2" foam board insulation boards. No problem, he sent one of the guys to go fetch them from the local lumber store. The contractor finished prepping site with gravel, got it all compacted and laid the foam insulation boards. Here is my concern. There is only 3" from the top of the foam insulation boards to the top of the surrounding boards. That means I'm getting a 3" foundation, there is no way to do a 4" as per the contract. I'm wondering if this is an issue or a non-issue. Is a 3" foundation thick enough for a wood working shop? There is only 2" at the door thresholds. Or should I contact the contractor and tell him that I need the 4" as stated in the contract? Concrete truck and crew is due here at 0600 on Monday. I've never built a shop before so this is all new to me, not sure if this is normally the way it goes.
     
  11. Curtis Fuller

    Curtis Fuller

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    North Ogden, Utah
    In different climates and regions they have different ways of doing things, different building codes. I'm not sure why they're putting 2" of foam insulation under the slab. it's common if they're installing radiant heat in the floor. I've seen it in refrigerated buildings too. But I've delivered concrete to hundreds of these pole barns like you're building and can't remember ever seeing foam under the slab. But my advice is don't be bashful. In fact, make sure he knows you're aware that slab isn't going to be 4" and you want a 4" thick slab minimum. Myself, I'd pull the 2" foam out and go for a 5" thick floor slab.
     
  12. Peter White

    Peter White

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Most definitely 4" slab worked in building 50 years 3" not good enough.
     
  13. Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    252
    First of all foam board is unnecessary. The ground under the slab will stay at 55 degrees. Since there is no heat source under the slab, what are you insulating? I have followed your posts on this job. I would have fired this guy the minute he changed one spec. You contracted for a 4" slab which is the standard, 3" is to weak. Make sure the concrete is at least 2500psi. Ask to see the ticket from the cement truck driver. Your experience has prompted me to contact the AAW to see if they wanted an article on building a shop from how to plan it to hiring a contractor to completion. I was a general contractor for 45 years and built 342 houses as well as commercial and industrial buildings.
     
  14. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    Invermere, British Columbia
    There are lots of epoxy floor finishes for garage floors. You first make sure new concretes cures, then Muratic is acid the floor. Then follow directions of your two part epoxy. They work awesome if prep And application is meticulous. The are no5 that much money. Can get at most big box stores. But you want the two par5 ones.
     
  15. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    395
    Location:
    Invermere, British Columbia
    You are so right. I saw these post and would have fired him before he started. Good contractors don’t work that way!
     
  16. Rob Fridenberg

    Rob Fridenberg

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
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    57
    Location:
    Novi, Michigan
    Agree - sounds like a fishy contractor. You need to have a meeting with him and discuss why he has and continues to deviate from the contract.

    When we had our house built, I was out inspecting it every few days and provided a list of things that didn't look right as it is easier to fix in progress vs. a bandaid approach later on. We didn't get along well at first, but then after a short discussion, we came to an understanding as to how we were going to proceed. I did not get to choose the builder as he owned the lot that we wanted. His reputation was well known in our subdivision so that was why I was on him all of the time. We ended up with a well built house (21 years old now).

    The builder said he didn't like building houses for engineers or lawyers (I'm an engineer)!! I laughed! Sometimes being an engineer is a curse - I am envious of my neighbors who don't have a clue about things (ignorance is bliss??!)!
     
  17. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

    Joined:
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    298
    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    I agree that the contractor should be fired but hesitate to do so as he has a significant deposit and its impossible to find a contractor to build a small shop. It took 18 months to find someone to build a 24x24. Contractors here are so busy and booked so far out that they won't do small jobs, not even in the winter. If I fire him now I'll be stuck with posts in the ground and supplies on my driveway with no way to finish. I know none of this is a good reason to keep a shoddy contractor.

    I heard back from an acquaintance who is a retired contractor. He said here in this area a 4" slab translates to a 3.5" finished slab. He equated it to a 2x4. Its possible that as the concrete is poured the foam will settle more to get that other 1/2". At the end of the day this may not be an issue, and no final check will be written until I'm satisfied as per the contract.

    As for the foam boards, I have really bad neuropathy in my feet, a couple of degrees can make a world of difference so I asked for the foam boards and a vapor barrier during the design process.
     
  18. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

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    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    Well that was quick, the contractor replied to my email and said he would be out before Monday's pour to make sure the thickness of the slab will be correct. He echoed what my acquaintance said in that a 4" slab is 3.5" finished, which is standard for 30x40 and smaller.

    Electricians here are equally as busy and difficult to find for a small job but this week has been really good, I was able to get three out here in the past two days. One even said he could run more amps from the house fairly easily. The mini split from Costco arrived yesterday as well. Its coming together, so long as I don't take my eye off the contractor I'm sure it'll end up to be a fine shop.
     
  19. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    2,721
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    Hmmm, sounds kind of fishy... and not the good kind of fish. First of all, if the building will ever be 'finished' for a living space, the slab needs a vapor barrier under it. Second, I would never pour directly on top of the foam. It will float up. Also, I never liked the way concrete sets when poured directly on a vapor barrier rather than having the barrier under the rock. Note here, the barrier can get some holes in it when compacting over it and it is usually done with a couple of layers, or in your case, the vapor barrier and then the foam. When I did slabs, if it was supposed to be 4 inches, we would be at 4 inches. some times on city sidewalks, we would go 3 1/2 inch because they aren't structural. For your shop floor, you want full 4 inches. I am not sure if the foam is necessary or not. If I was going to have heating in the floor, either under the gravel, or in the slab, then yes as the slab and gravel makes a great thermal mass. It could also be used as a cooling mass as well. I did one house that used their slab for both heating and cooling with tubing, and a built to size pond.

    I would be worried about this contractor. Did he come recommended?

    robo hippy
     
  20. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

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    Location:
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    The contractor came highly recommended and before I signed the contract I verified his license, insurance and bond. He has no complaints with the state, county or BBB. Reviews are good.

    The contractor showed up about 15 minutes ago with a helper. We had a good discussion, he was receptive to my concerns and explained what they were going to do today. They are lifting the foam boards, checking again for level and will make sure I have 4-1/4" throughout. The patio and lean to will be 3-3/4" tapering to 3-1/2 to ensure drainage. The concrete guys will come back the day after the pour to cut in the expansion joints. The contractor said to easy my mind that he will guarantee in writing that if I have any issues with the slab over the next five years he will fix it at no cost. That gives me some peace of mind.

    Now, if I ever build a second shop I'll be better prepared and more informed. Eventually, hopefully next year, I'll be able to lay a laminate or wood floor.
     
  21. Curtis Fuller

    Curtis Fuller

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    North Ogden, Utah
    I think your shop will be fine and you'll enjoy working in it. I know a couple contractors around where I live that do nothing but these pole barns, from small ones like yours to huge ones used as indoor riding arenas. They make a nice, durable, and maintenance free building that will serve your needs just fine. And because they are considered agricultural buildings they aren't subject to many of the codes that residential buildings are subject to. Keeps the price down and serves the purpose. Very easy to customize also. Looking forward to seeing it all finished.
     
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  22. Damon McLaughlin

    Damon McLaughlin

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    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    I agree with you Curtis, it'll be a great shop and I'll enjoy it once its done. I think my little bit of anxiety is due to communication issues with the contractor and myself.

    I was in need of another desk where I can do my embellishing and found one at the metal recycling center online today. Just came back with it. A really nice 1950's metal desk, heavy! It was a great deal at $5. A friend came over yesterday to see the progress. He's a retired navy seabee, offered to build me stairs off the center of the porch in exchange for an evening watching the sunset with a couple beers. Hard to refuse that.

    Post frames here increase the property tax value minimally, stick built shops though increase it significantly more.
     
  23. Chris Lawrence

    Chris Lawrence

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2020
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    Location:
    Jackson, NJ
    Keep an eye out on groupon and living social they periodically run deals for memberships to all the warehouse clubs. It used to be an almost free membership for new members but now its just a $20 to $25 gift card with the deal.
     
  24. Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
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    I guess I wasn't clear about the foam boards. With no heat source the slab ( and foam boards ) will go to ground temperature. That is about 55 degrees. Your slab will not be warmer by even 1 degree. Second, expansion joints are not used inside buildings. As the name implies they are used to allow concrete to expand and contract without buckling. This happens when the temperature varies greatly outside. Inside you do not have that variation.
     
  25. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    The cut joints are more properly called 'crack control joints'. They are supposed to make the concrete crack where you want it to, rather than random cracking. I have done a number of warehouses and large slabs for lumber mills. They all have crack control joints. They seldom do the tarred felt expansion joints in side walks or in residential construction any more. They went cheap with the tar, and the joints rot out in a couple of years.

    robo hippy
     

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