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MODIFICATION: Outboard turning attachment....

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SO...I bought the American Beauty at the Raleigh AAW couple of months ago. And - in conversation with Brent English, I asked what was different about his outboard turning attachment vs the Vicmarc. I had seen the Vicmarc, but not the Robust. He replied: Nothing! We just knocked it off! and we chuckled a bit....I asked other than color - is yours better steel, or any other differences? ...Nope! was the reply. With a substantial price difference favoring the Vicmarc....I went to Woodworker's Emporium and bought the Vicmarc.

It arrived recently - and well....let's just say that I took Brent literal. That was clearly not his intent. No rant here - just a mis-understanding. What I am hoping is that I can simply add some 2'x4" rectangular steel tubing to the "feet" of the Vicmarc - and mount it as the robust is mounted. Not a good pic on the Robust site - but, if you expand them a bit, maybe you can see what I am looking to do. I DO have the swing away on my Robust - so I need to get the main pivot point further away from the lathe legs...which is what I believe the Robust unit is doing with the rectangular tubing. Would appreciate any insight and input you have-

Links to pictures:

Robust - http://www.turnrobust.com/?s=outboard+turning+attachment

Vicmarc - https://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Vicmarc_V00861/

Thanks!
T
 
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It does John...but - it also puts the pivot point further out from the leg of the lathe, to accommodate the added distance occupied by the swing away. At least...that is my interpretation. If you look at the Vicmarc - you will see that it lacks the rectangular tubing in favor of a lower profile ( thinner) attachment/base.
 

Bill Boehme

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I have the Robust outboard turning attachment and really like it. I bought it a couple years after getting my Robust AB and installed it myself which was straightforward since the holes are already on the rear leg apron. It is really heavy duty and operates very smoothly. I made one minor modification ... I added some thrust bearings at the shoulder joint and lubed them with a bit of moly grease. I also put a bit of moly grease at the elbow even though cast iron is supposed to be self lubricating. In addition to outboard turning the outboard rest is useful for holding the boring bar trap on my Steve Sinner deep hollowing rig.

I know absolutely nothing about the Vicmarc outboard attachment, but from the picture it appears to be lighter.
 

Bill Boehme

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Here are some pictures of my outboard rig. I didn't install the post for these pictures since it is really heavy to be lugging across the garage. The purpose of the two 1½" X 2½" rectangular tubing pieces is to hold the 1½" D X 9" L steel cylinder for the shoulder joint. It's not needed as a spacer although it does add a couple inches.

The first picture is a close up that shows the lower thrust bearings.

image.jpeg

And here is a wider view that shows the whole shoulder joint. Originally I thought about adding thrust bearings at the upper end of the shoulder joint, but there really isn't a need to do it.

image.jpeg


A view from the other side with everything all neatly folded up.

image.jpeg


A view with the arm slightly unfolded.

image.jpeg


The elbow can articulate either way.

image.jpeg

Another view with everything folded up.

image.jpeg
 
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THANK YOU for those pictures Bill. It really helps me to see how those rectangular tubes are located. I may be able to return this Vicmarc and pay the difference in an exchange for the Robust....will call and plead with Christian @ Woodworkers Emporium tomorrow. But - if does not work out - it looks like I should be able to get some rectangular tubing...and even weld these bases to the tubing - and mount it just as the Robust unit mounts. But - Where do you get the thrust bearings? What was required to install those?
Thanks agin!
T
 
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You could likely get by with black pipe spacers, or even wood instead of steel tube. Wood is plenty strong in compression. Could even glue up a slab of plywood to the thickness needed. But maybe you have plenty of steel working equipment.
 

Bill Boehme

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I got them at the local Ace Hardware. They basically look like large flat washers except they are plain bearings that are precisely machined from flat stock as opposed to being stamped out like a washer. There are also rolling element type thrust bearings, but for something like this that would be overkill to the max.

I just put three of the thrust bearings on the post before putting the arm on. If you wind up getting the Robust outboard rig here is a tip that you might find useful. The 1½" holes in the 1½" X 2½" rectangular tubes were a bit too tight to insert the 1½" D X 9" L steel cylinder, but that problem is easy to solve. Just stick a small screwdriver into the end of the slot and with a few hammer taps it will open up the hole just enough to easily insert the cylinder. Then tighten the bolt to clinch the cylinder.

The main loads at the shoulder joint are bending moments so if you do use wood use something very hard. Also, when stowed, the articulated arm partially stows just below the upper tubing. Another constraint is to make sure that it doesn't interfere with the tilt away mechanism.
 
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You could likely get by with black pipe spacers, or even wood instead of steel tube. Wood is plenty strong in compression. Could even glue up a slab of plywood to the thickness needed. But maybe you have plenty of steel working equipment.

I could see using the pipe - oriented 90 degrees tot he lathe stand....wood? well...maybe for a pattern, but I can fabricate this with metal, and would just feel better about the permanence of it.
Thanks for your input!
T
 
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I got them at the local Ace Hardware. They basically look like large flat washers except they are plain bearings that are precisely machined from flat stock as opposed to being stamped out like a washer. There are also rolling element type thrust bearings, but for something like this that would be overkill to the max.

I just put three of the thrust bearings on the post before putting the arm on. If you wind up getting the Robust outboard rig here is a tip that you might find useful. The 1½" holes in the 1½" X 2½" rectangular tubes were a bit too tight to insert the 1½" D X 9" L steel cylinder, but that problem is easy to solve. Just stick a small screwdriver into the end of the slot and with a few hammer taps it will open up the hole just enough to easily insert the cylinder. Then tighten the bolt to clinch the cylinder.

The main loads at the shoulder joint are bending moments so if you do use wood use something very hard. Also, when stowed, the articulated arm partially stows just below the upper tubing. Another constraint is to make sure that it doesn't interfere with the tilt away mechanism.


Thanks Bill! - I thought I knew what you meant by "thrust bearings" - but wanted to be sure. Nice tip on the fitment of the 9" cylinder too. I will be using steel, but do see the merit of making a prototype with wood to test fit and function. I am now curious about the use of the 2"x4" vs the 1-1/2"x2-1/2" rectangular tubing....while that creates a longer potential lever - by increasing the distance from the mounting base/machine interface....is there any benefit? It should not increase diameter of potential turning...but should increase the distance from the headstock another 1-1/2"... Absolutely frivolous to think that is needed.....I know. Just thinking thru the dynamics of altering The Vicmarc outboard attachment.
Now...preemptive apologies...if I can be a real pain....could you tell me the length of those rectangular pieces on the Robust, as well as the long of the 2 articulating cast iron pieces that act as the ""knuckles"? Not the main pivot that runs thru the 2 rectangular tubes...the ones that create the hinging parts that connect to the tall steel post which terminates as the tool rest? I am trying to be certain that the only differences in the Robust vs Vicmarc are the color of paint and the attachment bases. Again - I apologize for the inconvenience Bill.
Thanks
T
 

Bill Boehme

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A thrust bearing is simply a bearing designed for axial loads. A plain thrust bearing is just a flat disk that in this case is steel, but in a rotating machine might be phosphor bronze.

The length of the upper rectangular "bracket" is 20" and the lower one is 12". The bolt hole on the right end of the upper bracket is 2½" from the end (the angle of the picture makes it look like it's less, but it isn't).

image.jpeg

If you want to know how far the brackets extend out, the picture below gives you a good idea. A straightedge across the ends of the two brackets hits the foot pad right at the bolt hole (this depends on the lathe height adjustment ... I'm 5' 11").

image.jpeg

The length of the two hinged arm pieces are 13" each total length, but the distance between pivot points on each arm is 10". Looking at the picture of the Vicmarc rig, you could probably use 1½" square tubing to get approximately the same standoff as the Robust rig.
 
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Many thanks for those great pictures Bill.I have had another conversation with Christian@Woodworkers Emporium. He has graciously extended the return policy to accommodate me - after hearing the full explanation. And - as he is a Robust dealer...I will apply the return credit to the Robust unit. This was not really an intimidating mod/adaptation...but it does make sense for some freight and a little extra money to keep all of the components on this lathe from the same manufacturer.

I great appreciate your help Bill - and FWIW...the measurement of the cast arms appears to be the same.:). SO Brent was correct in saying that he copied the Vicmarc unit....with the unnamed caveat of the mounting.....:D
 

Bill Boehme

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When you get the Robust outboard attachment you will be able to give us a full report on the similarities and differences. I noticed that the Vicmarc 40 mm post is about 1/16" larger than the 1½" Robust post. Either one is more weight than I like to carry around after having three back surgeries and possibly a fourth on the horizon. I store the post on the other side of the garage and really need to make a set of wheels to move it around.

If you ever decide that you want a steady rest (and don't currently own one) I heartily recommend the Robust. It is very heavy and solid.
 
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Bill, what is going on with the hydraulic jack under your lathe???? Is that your mobility kit????

robo hippy
 

Bill Boehme

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Bill, what is going on with the hydraulic jack under your lathe???? Is that your mobility kit????

I took the hook thing off of the Robust screw jack and put it on a Harbor Freight trolley jack. Makes jacking the lathe up to install / remove the wheels much faster.

Here are a few pictures. The first one shows the hook mounted on the trolley jack. The bolt goes through a bronze bearing that is just slightly longer than the hook so that the hook can swivel freely.

image.jpeg


The picture below shows the trolley jack with the hook engaging the lifting point on the apron at the tailstock end of the lathe. The remnants of the old screw jack can be seen in the upper right.

image.jpeg


The final picture is a close up showing the hook engaging the apron.

image.jpeg


Thank you kindly for that Bill...... when you sayer the Vicmarc 400mm post is larger....I am assuming you mean longer?

No, I said 40 mm diameter (not 400) which is about 1/16 inch larger diameter than the 1½ inch Robust post. A 400 mm long post would be really short … about 15¾ inches. :)
 
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A question - does the outboard attachment allow comfortable turning off the end of the bed? When not being used does it add to space requirement (does it stick out beyond the tilt-away?). I do find myself taking full advantage of the sliding head and turning off the end of the bed. Hollowing bowls and coring are two things where I find I stand right about there and don’t find the tilt-away an issue, but if the OB attachment adds significantly more length (more than a couple of inches) I don’t think its going to be installed permanently.
Is it feasible to install only when needed?
 

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The outboard turning attachment does not stick out as far as the tilt-away. I would describe it as being tucked beneath the tilt-away and at the "elbow" (my definition for the joint between the two arms), which is the widest point it is still by my eyeball estimation more than an inch shy of sticking out as far as the tilt-away.

My apologies to @Brent@TurnRobust for butchering the nomenclature of the various parts that I have attempted to describe.
 
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Interesting concept. I am trying to figure out some thing better than that screw jack that comes with the lathe. It does work, but I find it awkward. Maybe because I can't bend over so far any more. Need to figure out one for my Vic as well.....

robo hippy
 

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Interesting concept. I am trying to figure out some thing better than that screw jack that comes with the lathe. It does work, but I find it awkward. Maybe because I can't bend over so far any more. Need to figure out one for my Vic as well.....

robo hippy

Trailer wheel jacks work well on some lathes. You can get them with top or side cranks.
Several clubs in central Florida are using these. Jack stand on one end and wheels that flip into place when the that end is lifted with a lever lift similar to Oneways with wheels ad the fulcrum
 

Bill Boehme

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Reed, you're welcome to steal my idea and I'll even help you. When I bought the trolley jack a few years ago it was $29 and it only weighs 20 pounds. The only other things that you need are:
  • 3½" L X ½" D grade 5 hex head bolt
  • Flat washer -- ½" ID X 1" OD
  • 3 bronze bushings -- ½" ID X ¾" OD X 1" L (one of them will be cut to slightly less than ⅝" L)
  • ½" nylon insert low profile stop nut
One of the bronze bushings will be trimmed to about ⅝" long. The exact length is determined by trial and error ... when the bolt is tightened the hook should be able to rotate freely with minimal axial play.

View showing low profile stop nut. There isn't enough clearance for a regular height nut when the jack is in the stowed position.

image.jpeg


View of the modification.

image.jpeg
 
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Bill, it doesn't look too difficult. I keep thinking about a hydraulic system that raises and lowers the wheels rather than a unit that you wheel under and then crank. The inventor in me never stops....

robo hippy
 
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Robot

I use pneumatic cylinders to open and close the blast gates on my vacuum system whenever the individual tools are powered on. I'm sure you could lift your lathe with a simple pneumatic cylinder.
 
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How does the vertical tool post move across the floor when you change the arm position? Looks like it either slides or you have to raise it in the bracket.
 

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How does the vertical tool post move across the floor when you change the arm position? Looks like it either slides or you have to raise it in the bracket.

I haven't weighed the tool post, but it feels like it is it could be 75 pounds. If your floor is perfectly flat and you don't mind scuffing it up then you could slide the post.

Since there's no such thing as a perfectly flat floor, the result of "sliding" the post would be either the post isn't sitting solidly on the floor or it's trying to lift the end of the lathe.

My preference is to raise the post up a bit .
 
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Thanks, I'm in the process of building one. My post is 2" diameter and while I'm doing the machine work on it I was thinking about cutting a recess on the base for a HDPE insert so it would slide easier.
 

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Thanks, I'm in the process of building one. My post is 2" diameter and while I'm doing the machine work on it I was thinking about cutting a recess on the base for a HDPE insert so it would slide easier.

Your tool rest needs to be rock solid. I would be concerned that a soft material like HDPE could compromise the stiffness.
 
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