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Lost Thread

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Mark Jundanian, Jul 13, 2020.

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  1. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Conspicuous by it's sudden, unexplained and frankly inexplicable absence is the thread regarding the recent episodes at the AAW Board principally regarding Gregory Schramek, Jimmy Clewes and Ken Ledeen.
     
    Steve Fairbairn and Glenn Lefley like this.
  2. Doug Rasmussen

    Doug Rasmussen

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    Yeah, good question, where is the thread?

    Logged in just now to get the latest episode in the soap opera and it's gone.
     
    Glenn Lefley likes this.
  3. Tim Connell

    Tim Connell

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    Sure hope it reappears, without significant editing.

    Still a lot of unanswered questions that the board needs to address.
     
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  4. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    They closed it and hide from public view.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    I think it was closed because of the “no politics” rule.
    Emiliano would know for sure.

    The board let it have a long run.

    Al
     
    Charles Cadenhead likes this.
  6. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Al, this was not a political discussion by any reasonable definition. And as I said earlier there is no more appropriate place for people to have this discussion. In fact there actually isn't any other place.

    @Emiliano Achaval may have something to add, but at this point I am led to believe that the Board acted directly or indirectly to supress this speech, which if true would tend to add credence to the allegations made by Clewes and Ledeen.
     
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  7. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    I now believe the referenced thread was absolutely a political discussion.
    I missed two key elements in the preceding days.

    1. The discussion of the elected leadership was political
    2. personal attacks are forbidden on any member of the forum or AAW.

    Free speech is not a guarantee for the forum since there are rules limiting it.
    The forum is meant to support woodturning education and the exchange of information among member toward that end.

    I do believe it is worthwhile for members to know what actions their board is taking.
    That may have clouded my thinking when I first saw this post.
    You may not agree with the two points above - but it is what I believe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  8. Paul Grenier

    Paul Grenier

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    I guess that no one on the board wanted anyone asking too many questions about exactly what happened and why. It's NOT politics, but members asking the board that WE ELECTED to answer to us, the membership.

    This smells of censorship.

    I guess that they will censor this as well.
     
    Tim Connell and Steve Fairbairn like this.
  9. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    The AAW board is preparing a statement about this whole situation. As a Junior administrator recently brought on board to help Bill, I can say that I have been trying my best and something like this was not on the job description. Bill has been a bit under the weather but he’ll be back soon. Bill and I run the forum for the AAW with their guidance.
     
  10. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    I’m glad the board is preparing a statement. Rereading the forum I don’t think anyone was personally attacking anyone that posted in the thread. We were all asking questions and pointing out information that was freely found on the internet concerning the board.i realize Jimmy and Ken were attacking the board but we as voting members, want to know why? Was it justified, was it mishandled by all sides, are apologized owed, did a person get fired for personal reasons or was it justified. I like a lot of other people, over 3,500 views on the thread we’re looking for the other side of the story. There is always two sides to a story! I believe when you vote for people and also vote for amendments giving the board more power and then a situation arises like this you want answers. I know I was not attacking anyone, just pointing out information and wanting to know what is going on with the board that is leading the ship of all our beloved woodturning magazine and forum.
     
  11. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    I agree with Glenn Lefley. I do not agree that removing the thread was necessary.

    I, too, look forward to hearing from the Board. But I have to wonder what the membership is supposed to do with its legitamate questions?
     
  12. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    your spelling is a little better than mine!:)

    You can always call or email a board member, or comittee member, AAW staff, or your chapter leadership.

    on the AAW web site there is a LEARN menu. Under that are links to Board, staff, committees.

    When I was on the board I got calls from members about once a month.
     
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  13. Steve Fairbairn

    Steve Fairbairn

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    You are correct about that. This was not a political discussion unless discussing the management of the club is considered political. There were no personal attacks on anyone and, if there was a perceived attack, the individual post should have been removed, not the entire discussion. The removal of the thread is extremely disappointing and smells really bad regardless of which side of the fence you sit on. :(:mad:
     
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  14. Kim Rymer

    Kim Rymer Communications & Marketing Director Staff Member

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    For many years the AAW Members’ Forum has effectively served our woodturning community as a source for positive member engagement about woodturning ideas, problem solving, and inspiration, which are all essential to AAW’s nonprofit educational mission. The community we serve, including those who are expressly dedicated to supporting AAW’s nonprofit mission, deserve an experience consistent with those ideals and should not be subjected to personal attacks and innuendo, whether directly or by embedded references to other social media sources. The discussion posts in question were in violation of the AAW Forum’s longstanding policy forbidding uncivil behavior and have been removed for that reason.

    AAW Board of Directors
    Phil McDonald, AAW Executive Director
     
  15. Steve Fairbairn

    Steve Fairbairn

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    Thanks for the update, Emiliano. As a former moderator on an extremely large and active forum, I can certainly appreciate and sympathize with the awkward position this matter has put you in. I believe the term, "Being the meat in a @#$% sandwich" accurately describes the position you've been placed in. In my opinion you've handled it very well.

    Is this the statement that you are referring to that was posted on July 7th in the Upcoming Board Meetings page or is there another statement forthcoming?

    https://www.woodturner.org/common/Uploaded files/About/BoardDocuments/20200707AAWBoardResponseClewesB.pdf

    Edit: Posted simultaneously as the post from Kim Rymer/Phil McDonald
     
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  16. Russ Braun

    Russ Braun

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    Jimmy Clewes issue resolved! Post goes away to nip other arising questions in the bud! Problem solved.......???
     
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  17. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Maybe we should post this in it’s own thread.Start a new one, and leave this one here too.
     
  18. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you. When I asked Bill about my “job” description, we definitely did not talk about something like this, LOL
     
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  19. Glenn Lefley

    Glenn Lefley

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    Makes sense to me Mark. We the people have legitimate questions and concerns about what two people have said the board has done to them. The board steps in and says our conversation is uncivil and shuts down the talk. Problem solved.

    Now we just move on , no sarcasm intended.
    Let’s all just enjoy turning.
     
    Larry Parker likes this.
  20. Steve Fairbairn

    Steve Fairbairn

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    Since civilly and candidly discussing issues that are critical of the running of the AAW and/or the actions of the board or individual board members has demonstrably been deemed inappropriate for these forums, is there another forum where members can freely and candidly discuss these issues among themselves? Can we get a clarification as to whether or not being critical of the actions of the board or any of its members is considered to be uncivil and/or a personal attack and therefor a violation of the AAW Forum's terms of use?
     
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  21. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    The AAW board had a special meeting today. You can read their statement posted by Kim Reymer on post #14. Some will like it, those that asked me here and sent me private messages and emails to please put a stop to it. Some will not like it and will try to continue to talk about it here. I felt I needed the guidance of Bill, but he was not available. I'm just a volunteer here. Whether I like it or not is beside the point. I have been involved with other organizations before, one thing I learned is that you can't please everyone. Contact your board member as suggested by Al Hockenberry, email them and call them. Better yet, get involved some of you are now motivated, be on the lookout, submit your name to be considered to run for the board. If you haven't yet, read the AAW statement. I might close this thread to further comment if we continue asking the same things over. Let's move forward, guys at least here on our Forum.
     
  22. Larry Parker

    Larry Parker

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    I saw nothin uncivil in thread, like someone else said if there was that particular post should have been deleted, not the entire thread.
     
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  23. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    several posts were deleted. if you consider the first post- it directed readers to a YouTube which had many emails in it some of which were political and others were derogatory toward individuals.
     
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  24. Paul Grenier

    Paul Grenier

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    So, any questions regarding decisions by the Board are now considered to be "uncivil behavior"?
     
  25. Larry Parker

    Larry Parker

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    But they were not in the thread, only linked to the video.
     
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