Hoping to pick my last lathe

[Roger Chandler]

I just put a piece red maple on my Grizzly G0800 that weighed approx. 125 lbs. and did a roughout that is almost 16" diameter. The tree is from my next door neighbors yard, and got damaged during a storm last week. The blank had some rot in the heart wood, but has nice burl eyes in it, and has sentimental value to my neighbor, so I am making them a keepsake from the tree.

My G0800 has 3 hp output, not input like my G0766 lathe, which states 3 hp input. It also uses a Delta E series inverter which is described this way by Delta Electronics:

Delta VFD022E21A/21C- FEATURES Sensorless Vector AC Micro Drive. The VFD-E series represent Delta Electronics low horsepower, constant torque, IP20 rated Drive.

In turning this blank of wood, and a number of other large blanks, I have had to begin at 100 rpm's or less. Even at that I have never stalled my G0800, and when taking corners off the blank with the gouge on an unbalanced blank, I have never had the belt to slip....not once!
The belt used on my G0800 is skinny compared to most lathes, but in research I did on the part number, I found that that belt is used especially in high torque applications, and the specs from Harvey Industries state "exceptional torque at low speeds" which I think is due to the combination of the inverter, motor power, and belt type.

All I can say is that the difficulty described by Don with his Revo 2436, it makes me wonder if Laguna played with the cost vs. performance issue to get the pendant feature. I know the build is not near as heavy as the G0800, and sounds like the older inverter type and perhaps the motor are less capable in performance. I briefly considered the Revo 2436, but after diving deep into the build and schematics, I knew I wanted the G0800.

So far, with the performance of my G0800, I am more than pleased, I am actually impressed with power, performance, ergonomics, high grade machining, and its ability to power thru cuts that would normally stall out most other lathes. Now, I think that I could stall it if I tried, but so far even with the heavy roughing I have done, no stalls have occurred and no belt slippage whatsoever.

I am at a quandry to understand the Laguna situation that Don is experiencing......I hope Laguna can resolve it for him. He should not have to go through this, and I hope they will make it right.

 

[robo hippy]

The cone itself is not flexing. What it does is put the piece you are turning much farther away from the base of the headstock. So, mount a 4 inch block on your chuck, and then on your lathe, if you are on a Vicmarc or my old PM, the blank is about 4 inches away from the vertical point above the base of the headstock. If you have a 4 inch cone, and then your chuck, and then your blank, you are now 7 or more inches away. Cantilevered out is a term I think of. Perhaps think of the difference between turning a 8 inch long hollow form and a 12 inch long hollow form without the tailstock. It just adds to the overall wiggle factor.

Oh, for electronic read outs, never had one on any of my lathes, and having learned that way, I never had a need for one...

robo hippy

 

[William Rogers]

Reed. Not to argue, but what you are saying is not really the same. What you describe is moving the work farther from the bearing. You are the same distance from the bearing cone or no cone. If the bearing does not move it makes no difference what is behind it. The bearing is the pivot point. You have the same lever from the bearing regardless of headstock. I have just not experienced any noticeable difference in vibration with my lathe. Once everything is trued up it is no different from my PM 90.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I've narrowed down my choices to the Robust AB, the Oneway 2436 3HP version and the Serious Toolworks 2542. I like the Robust because the spindles and spindle tapers match what I have for chucks etc. and I don't have to use an adapter. The Oneway I've got to use an adapter from 3MT to 2MT on the headstock, and same issue for the Serious,at both ends---plus it's a 1 1/2 x 8 thread which is meaning a large accessory swap out--something I don't want to do at all. So I'm looking for input/advice, especially from folks who have worked on these lathes. The Oneway is the lowest cost by probably by around 2K.

Any advice/input is appreciated-Don

Hi Don,
I own a 2hp 2436 since 2000. I absolutely love it. The question that I ask myself, what would I do differently if I could do it all over again.
Kevin Clay strongly recommended the 2hp over the 3hp back then. I would reorder with the 1w 2hp today. It handled up to 22”x28” logs at low belt settings without issues. Yes, I could stall the lathe and even force a reset.

I may consider stainless steel beds. I accidentally left some green yellowwood on the bed for a period and the tannin rusted and pitted the bed.

Digitial tach not needed with the 1w speed control has a scale. I always know the speed the lathe is traveling. Nevertheless I would want one. It’s not a deal breaker.

I would not buy the swing away tailstock support. When I do deep hollowing I often stand on the far side of the lathe bed right where the swing away is positioned. The $1000 Robust thingy would be less of an impingement. I would not be attracted to this expensive optional device. I built a portable wooden tailstock table for about 40 bucks to handle the oneway massive tailstock. So that is not an issue.
I would not rebuy, the Vacuum Chuck. Most of my turnings these days are longer than wide. I jam chuck most of my work with tailstock support.

I originally bought the outfeed table. After 18 years of non-use, I moved the lathe 18 inches forward and extended the bed. Yes, I would rebuy the wheels set. (I did have to replace one of the inner wheel tubes due to dry rot). For me, the sliding headstock adds little benefit to my turning style.

The Morse taper solutions have being mentioned.

Perhaps suggesting a custom spindle just like Robust offers m33 as well as their standard to Kevin at one way may be a solution.

 

[Owen Lowe]

The type of inverter is also important.

I think that’s a good point to compare between the manufacturers: what brand (i.e., quality) of inverter do they use?

I think that I might have the last Robust with three pulleys. Even though moving the belt is quick and easy, I do 99.99% of my turning in the low speed range.

I leave my Oneway’s belt on the middle pulley for almost all turning I do. The only time I move it is when coring.

 

[Don C Davis]

Folks, I really appreciate the feedback, I"m playing phone tag with Laguna right now--so we shall see--but I have a question for those knowledgeable about the VicMarc's banjo--is it just the simple tool post lock has a screw that runs into your tool rest post style--it looks like that. I have a Oneway banjo for my NOVA, but I don't know if even with a longer tool rest post if that would work for the Vic VL-300.....Hoping to continue learning as I try to make this decision!

 

[odie]

The most likely reason for a lathe stalling is due to having the belt in the high speed position while running at low speed. Also, as I mentioned previously, don't believe for one minute that the motor is really 3 HP.

A tool that isn't as sharp as it could be, will also create drag. It is my opinion that many turners, even those who mentor and instruct woodturning, do not have tools as sharp as they could be. Something that adds to the problem, are tool steels that dull at a slower pace than standard ol' M2 steel. It's easy to have tools lingering in the zone of "sharp, but could be sharper", when the tool dulls at a slower pace......and, this works against the objective. Human nature is to want to work longer without sharpening......but, that's exactly what precipitates the problem. The solution, is to use steels that don't last as long before needing to be sharpened......and, resolving oneself to sharpen more often. My experience is, by using standard M2 steel and sharpening 3-4 times as often, I stay out of that dreaded "sharp, but could be sharper zone" a larger portion of the time than using the "advanced" steels.

-----odie-----

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Well, a few things here. I was chatting with Bill Grumbine a few years back and he commented that he could stall a VB36. After playing around a bit on a few other lathes, I found out it isn't difficult at all. The larger the diameter, the less cutting pressure it takes to stall any lathe. Speed and pulley range also figure in here. With my 3520A, I was continually tripping the breaker when coring. I eventually figured out that if I cored in the low speed range, that was not a problem at all. I think we also adjusted the breaking feature to 8 seconds from 4 as it would trip with bigger pieces. If there was a 100 hp motor, perhaps I wouldn't be able to stall it on a 12 inch bowl. I would probably be in orbit before I could stall it... I am not as big as Bill, but I could be on the Brute Squad....

Now, 2 vs 3 speed. With my AB, it is a 10 year old one, and has the 3 speed ranges. The low speed range did not go fast enough for bowl turning, only about 900 rpm. Fine for big heavy pieces, but not for smaller pieces. The mid range only went up to 1500. Again, this is too slow for a lot of the smaller bowls I turn. The high speed range I would only use for spindles, and I can't remember if I ever cored in the high speed range, but given my experience with the PM, I would expect the same thing, not enough muscle for coring and heavy roughing. I called Brent, and asked about adjusting the speed ranges because I knew it was possible. When done, the minimum speed was about 10 rpm in the low range, which I use for sanding (3520B and a number of other lathes would turn off at 50rpm which is not suitable for sanding warped bowls). The mid range went up to 2200 rpm and had plenty of torque for coring and heavy roughing, though some times I would like the lower range for heavy roughing because you just can't turn the rpm up for unbalanced pieces on any lathe. The problem with the 2 pulley system, no matter the lathe, is that the high end is too high for heavy roughing and coring, and the low range is too slow for finish cuts on smaller bowls. The motor makes little difference if it is a good quality motor like Leeson, Baldor, or the Nova which really surprised me with the amount of torque it has. To get the best of both speed ranges, some one needs to invent an automatic belt transmission/gear/wheel change set up so it takes a second or two, and not having to shut off your lathe to open a hatch, adjust a screw lever, and flip the belt, and tighten up again, and then start it up again........

I may add a Vicmarc to my arsenal. Only real way to give it a heavy duty test drive. At the Symposiums, they run the event centers on 208 volt current rather than the 220 or 240 that we have in house. I asked the electrician in Portland this year about that, and he said it was geared for the 3 phase machines that come in for big events. This leads to just about any 2 and 3 hp lathe on the floor being under powered. Main reason for the Vicmarc choice is that the head stock spindle mount comes directly off the tower, and not off a cone (Laguna, and others I think) that extends it farther away from the headstock. This feature adds to vibration issues. Basic leverage, the farther it sticks out away from the headstock, like hollow forms, the more vibration issues there will be. You can get rid of most of the vibration issues by keeping the tailstock engaged. Take it off to core, or to finish cut, and you get a lot more vibration. The reason for this cone, and other similar variations, is for 'easier access to the bottom of the bowl for twice turned bowls when you are finish turning them. This doesn't seem to be an issue with the Vicmarc, or maybe more specifically for those who use the Vicmarc. I think it has a narrower headstock profile, which would make that easier. You can also use extended jaws on your chuck. You could also pretty much finish turn the first inch or two of the bottom of a bowl when it is reversed and you are turning a new tenon. Haven't tried that one. The Vicmarc is the only lathe with a pivoting headstock that I would buy. Rock solid on a big post. You get exact location by pulling the pin, moving to next position and replacing the pin. Never have to fine adjust it. I will need a floor mount accessory banjo set up....

robo hippy

Very interesting observation... And I should add they are big blanks I’m roughing, and I can stall it on the outside, makes sense now and I’m happy is not just me stalling a big lathe!

 

[robo hippy]

Reed. Not to argue, but what you are saying is not really the same. What you describe is moving the work farther from the bearing. You are the same distance from the bearing cone or no cone. If the bearing does not move it makes no difference what is behind it. The bearing is the pivot point. You have the same lever from the bearing regardless of headstock. I have just not experienced any noticeable difference in vibration with my lathe. Once everything is trued up it is no different from my PM 90.

The bearing is one leverage point, the base of the headstock is another. It does make a difference. I am guessing this is one reason turners like Mike Mahoney and Stuart Batty always comment on less vibration with the Vic than with sliding headstock lathes. Need some serious time on the Vic to confirm....

robo hippy

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Well folks, I am running the Laguna on the low speed range with 'supposedly' higher torque. I am wondering if there is something going on with it---the digital readout sucks, it won't give you steady speed readouts at speeds lower than around 250, this when the pulleys are set to the low speed range--it's way worse when you put it on the high range--no stable readings til it's above 500 rpm's. I've turned on a PN 3520B, A Robust AB, and my NOVA DVR and none of these lathes stalled on me---on top of this issue with the 24-36, the quill for the first 3" has rusted severely--I don't feel a quill should rest this way regardless of how it's treated, and mine has been treated with kid gloves-still retarded rusting. Long story short, I've only been turning on this lathe for a month--have owned it for 5-6 and just got my shop expansion to where I could turn on it, and it's not giving me good vibes at all. I think I'm still narrowed down to selling the Laguna and buying either the Robust AB or the Oneway 2436---However a mate of mine just told me to seriously consider the VicMarc VL-300, he said that will be the only lathe he considers when he steps up....
I am not turning larger pieces on the Laguna-yet-and that concerns me even more, my intention is to turn more stuff in the 18-22 inch range, and I want a lathe that will turn as I'm accustomed to, steadily--not wish I had my benchtop NOVA out where my 24-36 is like I do currently.

I’ve heard the castings in the new vicmarcs are nothing like the old lathes. I heard that from a good turner from the country where there made. He owned an older model. Would not buy a newer model. But I’ve never turned on one. Just second hand information.

 

[William Rogers]

The bearing is one leverage point, the base of the headstock is another. It does make a difference. I am guessing this is one reason turners like Mike Mahoney and Stuart Batty always comment on less vibration with the Vic than with sliding headstock lathes. Need some serious time on the Vic to confirm....

robo hippy

Reed, like I say not to argue, but I really do not believe the cone is causing any measurable difference in vibration. If the bearing is fixed it does not matter if the headstock is in the next state. The headstock will see more load, however it is also fixed and will have minimal effect on vibration. In your previous post you indicated the work would be extended out from the bearing and that would lead to more vibration. However the headstock is extended, the work is the same distance from the chuck and bearing as any lathe. There are a number of these lathes with a cone design in use. I have not seen any post indicating the cone design contributes to vibration other than yours. Based on my experience and use there is no noticeable difference between my old PM 90 and the Laguna 18-36.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I've had 3 lathes with a straight headstock design. One of mine, the G0766 is basically built like the stubby headstock with a rectangle headstock design and straight sides with just the spindle protruding a little off the inboard side.

My G0800 has the cone shaped headstock, and has 3 massive premium bearings on the spindle, one being at the end of the cone. The headstock casting is beefy for sure, and I have not noticed any vibration from the design. It is smooth. I did take the time to measure the total width of the headstock on both my large lathes, and they are the same width overall, from the spindle tip to the other end of the headstock where the handwheel is located.

Overhang might not be the issue, as the overall width is the same, just that the cone casting comes off the straight wall at a different position than the Stubby, PM etc. designed lathes. The headstock lock down on the ways of my G0766 is good, and I've had no vibration issues when it is tight, but the G0800 locks down even more solidly. If that one is locked down tight, I doubt any amount of weight could make it move [as normal wood blanks go] and that was one of the first observations I noticed about the G0800, that it locks down so firmly on the headstock, banjo and tailstock. The pure mass of those requires both hands, and a little heave-ho to move them!

 

[Don C Davis]

Roger th G0800 should probably be on my to be considered list also, but I have an acquaintance that had hideous experience with his and with Grizzly.
Glenn, I appreciate that info, it's worth considering everything one can when making a purchase like this IMO--so thanks! I have a contact at Woodworkers Emporium, and he is a huge fan of the VicMarc stuff and especially the VL-300, he says he would definitely go with it over the Robust--mainly I think because Stuart Batty said so I like the blue color on the Vic too!

Edited to add: I just heard from my technical service advisor from Laguna, he himself has an 18-36, and he says no way should I be having this issue with a 24-36, after lengthy discussion he has 'learned' me that Laguna has had some issues with the 'voltage jumper' on the VFD from 110-220, so he has told me I need to pop the cover off of the VFD and look and see what pins they have the jumper placed on, he told me that their internal engineers opinion differs from his interpretation of the VFD schematic on how the jumper needs to be placed on these contacts. So...I am going to do what he has told me on the VFD and then try some cuts on a bowl I actually have chucked up on the lathe right now---all this being said, and I'm thinking I want to go to a new lathe, so the search is ongoing!

 

[Roger Chandler]

Don, good luck with your Laguna 2436. I agree that something is likely amiss with it, and if you can get it traced down, then you likely might not feel the need for anything else, as most units have good reports.
Not sure what your friend had wrong with his G0800. I could not ask for anything more. I don't know your friends circumstances or experience, but sometimes do it yourself'ers get themselves into trouble, and sometimes it is operator error that causes issues. I have seen numerous threads over the years that complained about a machine, and it turned out to be user error, etc.

 

[robo hippy]

Reed. Not to argue, but what you are saying is not really the same. What you describe is moving the work farther from the bearing. You are the same distance from the bearing cone or no cone. If the bearing does not move it makes no difference what is behind it. The bearing is the pivot point. You have the same lever from the bearing regardless of headstock. I have just not experienced any noticeable difference in vibration with my lathe. Once everything is trued up it is no different from my PM 90.

The difference is pretty much not noticeable with smaller bowls, in the 10 or less diameter range. In the 12 to 16 inch diameter range, it is significant. Yes, the quality and types of bearings make a difference, as do how far off the headstock base you are cantilevering.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

It is always best to work with a manufacturer and not approach issues from an adversarial point of view. Most lathe manufacturers are seriously interested in having a good product and good customer relations. Asking for a diagnosis online is often a crapshoot, but as a last resort it depends on how much helpful details are provided and how good a BS filter one has.

As far as the top end lathes are concerned there is a reason why Robust, Oneway, Vicmarc and Stubby are the top of the heap. Choosing between them is a very personal choice. One thing that wasn't in my original bucket list when I bought my Robust was accessibility to support. I was extremely pleased to find that they have customer service that far exceeded my expectations of any lathe manufacturer.

 

[William Rogers]

The difference is pretty much not noticeable with smaller bowls, in the 10 or less diameter range. In the 12 to 16 inch diameter range, it is significant. Yes, the quality and types of bearings make a difference, as do how far off the headstock base you are cantilevering.

robo hippy

Reed I turn 12 to 16 bowls, no different in vibration. What is meant by significant? Yes, bearing, mass and other things affect vibration. I have made my point and disagree with you and will leave it at that. The only way to prove this is by having lathes set up with accelerometers and take measurements. I just have my experience usung my lathes and my engineering background that includes vibration testing. I don’t know what proof you have or if it is just an opinion, but it differs from me. This thread has been hi-jacked enough and I’m done posting about this. Sorry Don.

 

[robo hippy]

No offence, and I think we will agree to disagree. This is a difference I have noted from lathe to lathe, using the exact same methods, woods, chucks, and mounting methods. While not an engineer, I do tinker a lot and have the engineer's syndrome, which is 'if it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway.'

robo hippy

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

All this topic about vibration got me to thinking that the nickel test is not definitive although I have heard it a great deal in relation to stationary equipment. Is there a definitive (not too expensive ) Measuring device for vibration? Or is all vibrations we could afford to measure only relative to our experience?

 

[William Rogers]

All this topic about vibration got me to thinking that the nickel test is not definitive although I have heard it a great deal in relation to stationary equipment. Is there a definitive (not too expensive ) Measuring device for vibration? Or is all vibrations we could afford to measure only relative to our experience?

Gerald, the nickle is about all we can afford and I don't think we need more. I retired from aircraft engine manufacturing. There is a lot necessary for accurate vibration measurement. It takes some very fast equipment to measure and record the signal. Placement of the accelerometers is also a factor. For rotating vibration a slip ring or telemetry would be needed. There may be meters, but if they were any good we would have used them. I can only speculate Powermatic and the other mfgs did some type of testing before releasing changes to their products. We tested each engine, but speculating the lathe mfg probably just power up and maybe maybe some pass/fail criteria.

 

[John Tisdale]

I can share 13-yrs experience on the Oneway. I've turned perhaps 200-logs weighing 200-lbs upwards to 400-lbs and one 1000-pounder. After removing perhaps 20% of the weight shaping the profile, I put on a 6" faceplate and cantilevered off the headstock (no steadyrest except on the "talls" and Planet Mesquite). Headstock bearings are still original and still using the same live-center. I always start out on a spur-drive which means huge axial force between headstock and live-center - Planet Mesquite (pictured) was also on a spur drive - I'm a bit surprised the 4" H-beams didn't bow with the horrific between-center pressures.
Kevin Clay was a great source of advice with Planet Mesquite - he designed and supplied the risers for the 17" extension and the plate for mounting the H-Beams to the lathe - he only called me an idiot twice which showed a mastery of understatement.
Don't know about the other machines but I do know you can't go wrong with the Oneway. You get a great machine and great engineering support.

 

[Roger Chandler]

Wow! Truly impressive setup, John! Alignment of the tailstock and headstock........did you accomplish it with a laser or just take really careful measurements?

 

[Don C Davis]

OMG, I've been wanting to turn some larger pieces, but I didn't even know you could get a piece of Mesquite that big!! Truly impressive. I feel like others have said, I'd be fine with a Oneway, a Robust or a Vicmarc, I just gotta pick a factor to push me over the edge. Turning outboard on a Oneway is something I need to investigate further, right now I am thinking a sliding headstock would make it easier to eliminate bending over the lathe bed to hollow a bowl out than doing an outboard setup--but I'm not sure.
John, thanks a lot for the input and those pics you shared--is there a link to what that 'Planet Mesquite' turned into?

 

[Bill Boehme]

All this topic about vibration got me to thinking that the nickel test is not definitive although I have heard it a great deal in relation to stationary equipment. Is there a definitive (not too expensive ) Measuring device for vibration? Or is all vibrations we could afford to measure only relative to our experience?

I agree that the nickel test is a nice demonstration, but it doesn't really do anything more than that.

Accelerometers are used to measure vibration. They're not very expensive, but the equipment that is connected to the accelerometers isn't cheap. I worked for an aerospace prime contractor which meant that everything that we developed for a military or NASA contract had to pass environmental qualification testing that covered everything imaginable .... Arizona road sand and dust, tropical humidity, fungus, salt water, wind tunnel tests, altitude, arctic cold, blazing hot desert, EMI, EMP, and ..... vibration.

There are all sorts of vibration tests ... random vibration, sinusoidal vibration, drop tests, acceleration/deceleration, and I've forgotten what else. We could stick accelerometers all over a lathe, but how would we interpret the results even if we could come up with a meaningful test scenario. Does motor hum and V-belt flutter mean anything beyond an emotional reaction? Then what's the importance of looking at shaking caused by out of balance wood. Out of balance wood is really an operator judgement issue rather than a lathe performance issue.

At work, the goal of environmental testing of military and NASA contracts was to demonstrate that the hardware could survive worst case conditions and still work. With woodturning lathes, however, there aren't any clear performance requirements. It wouldn't make sense to create arbitrary requirements. Additionally, customers probably wouldn't be very interested in a sizeable price increase to pay for this additional NRE (non-recurring engineering) where the cost of testing is very high and the expected market is small plus questionable benefit.

 

[Bill Boehme]

John, thanks a lot for the input and those pics you shared--is there a link to what that 'Planet Mesquite' turned into?

I believe that It's still a work in progress.

From personal experience I think you might become increasingly uncertain about making the "right" decision. Given the finalists that you are looking at there is no wrong decision. They're all excellent choices. My wife picks a car based on color. Maybe in the grand scheme of things that's as good as any way to do it. Anyway, she liked the silver and black of my lathe which makes me happy.

 

[Roger Chandler]

Don, I would encourage you to do a deep dive into the schematic drawings of each model you are considering. That is what I did, and I found that the Oneway 2436 [great lathe] has 3 bearings on the spindle, [2 -6008 series, and one 3209 series, according to the spindle assembly schematic drawing on the Oneway website] but also that they are considerably smaller than what is on the Powermatics/Grizzly's/Lagunas.

The three bearings on my G0800 are larger than a baseball in diameter, and about the same size as on the Robust AB, which uses a 6300 series bearing and the G0800 uses 6209 series which is 85mm OD, has a dynamic load rating of 7436 lbs and a static load rating of 4580 lbs each bearing, and one 6208 series which is 80mm OD. A baseball is 74mm diameter.

I'm not sure exactly which 6300 series the Robust uses, but there are charts available that give you all the stats on the size/load capability of them.

My point in this comparison is that if you plan to do a lot of heavy wood on your unit, build certainly does matter, no matter which brand you choose. I have found that no particular brand will give a turner every conceivable desired attribute, and that is why I made the choice I did, as well as getting the Robust would have meant at least another year, maybe two to get enough saved to purchase, and I had cash on hand to get the 0800, which after looking deeply at it, felt it would do anything any other premium lathe would do, and perhaps better than some on the market.....but that was my own opinion, based on my own assessment of what I saw in the build. You won't go wrong on any that you are considering in my opinion!

 

[William Rogers]

I agree that the nickel test is a nice demonstration, but it doesn't really do anything more than that.

Accelerometers are used to measure vibration. They're not very expensive, but the equipment that is connected to the accelerometers isn't cheap. I worked for an aerospace prime contractor which meant that everything that we developed for a military or NASA contract had to pass environmental qualification testing that covered everything imaginable .... Arizona road sand and dust, tropical humidity, fungus, salt water, wind tunnel tests, altitude, arctic cold, blazing hot desert, EMI, EMP, and ..... vibration.

There are all sorts of vibration tests ... random vibration, sinusoidal vibration, drop tests, acceleration/deceleration, and I've forgotten what else. We could stick acceler ometers all over a lathe, but how would we interpret the results even if we could come up with a meaningful test scenario. Does motor hum and V-belt flutter mean anything beyond an emotional reaction? Then what's the importance of looking at shaking caused by out of balance wood. Out of balance wood is really an operator judgement issue rather than a lathe performance issue.

At work, the goal of environmental testing of military and NASA contracts was to demonstrate that the hardware could survive worst case conditions and still work. With woodturning lathes, however, there aren't any clear performance requirements. It wouldn't make sense to create arbitrary requirements. Additionally, customers probably wouldn't be very interested in a sizeable price increase to pay for this additional NRE (non-recurring engineering) where the cost of testing is very high and the expected market is small plus questionable benefit.

Forums

Bill, I retired from the aircraft engine industry both commercial and military. I had forgotten have of the testing you listed. Also for me there was acceleration, frequency, siren, strain, and a bunch other and then the reports and FEMECA's. Glad to be away from all that.

 

[hockenbery]

Turning outboard on a Oneway is something I need to investigate further, right now I am thinking a sliding headstock would make it easier to eliminate bending over the lathe bed to hollow a bowl out then doing an outboard setup--but I'm not sure.

Using the outboard is a lot quicker. If you are roughing several bowls you can leave the chuck mounted on the outboard. Here is quick comparison of using the outboard and sliding headstock.

On both lathes You rough turn between centers. Balance the grain, Turn the outside and make the tenon.

With the 17” bed in the outboard side you have a short bed lathe you can stand in front of.
Put the chuck on the outboard side. Swing the switch pedestal to the outboard side, you Move to the other side of the headstock, Mount the bowl in the chuck, Flip the switch to reverse, Turn out the inside of the bowl standing in front.

With the sliding headstock you have the remove the tailstock, Walk to the other side of the lathe, unlock the headstock, slide the headstock half the length of the bed, lock the headstock, move the switch to the end, walk to the end, Mount the chuck, Mount the bowl in the chuck, turn out the inside.

It takes about twice as long to start hollowing on a the sliding headstock

One terrific option is the oneway 2416 with the 17” outboard. With this lathe you have the shortbed bowl lathe.
And you can hollow on either end. This works really well if you turn long things only a few times a year because it takes about 10 minutes to move the 17” bed from outboard to bed extension to give you 33” between centers.
This is not something you want to do every day.
If you turn mostly bowls and hollow forms the 2416 is terrific and you can still set it up to turn a set of table legs if you decide to do some spindles.

 

[Bill Boehme]

With the sliding headstock you have the remove the tailstock, Walk to the other side of the lathe, unlock the headstock, slide the headstock half the length of the bed, lock the headstock, move the switch to the end, walk to the end, Mount the chuck, Mount the bowl in the chuck, turn out the inside.

It takes about twice as long to start hollowing on a the sliding headstock

What lathe are you talking about?

With the Robust you unlock the headstock from where you are standing ... no moving required ... just a flip of a lever. There's no removing the tailstock ... just slide it down to the end ... lock it ... flip the lever on the swing away (actually down and back)lock the lever. There's a gas assist strut (I think it might be a Toyota part) ... makes swinging the tailstock down effortless.
Finally, lock the banjo and headstock down ............ and .....
TURN!
No walking any further than the Oneway ,,, maybe even less ...... although walking is good cardiovascular exercise. I don't do enough walking.

I also have the outboard turning rig on my lathe so theoretically I could turn something that is seven feet in diameter. NOT!

 

[hockenbery]

the Robust you unlock the headstock from where you are standing ... no moving required ... just a flip of a lever. There's no removing the tailstock ... just slide it down to the end ... lock it ... flip the lever on the swing away (actually down and back)lock the lever. There's a gas assist strut (I think it might be a Toyota part) ... makes swinging the tailstock down effortless.

The Robust is beauty, precision, and a pleasure to use. However it still requires more actions and moving around to slide a headstock than to walk around the left leg of a lathe to use an outboard. Removing the tailstock from the lathe bed is required. swingers and the magical Robust Shock assisted swing away allow quick removal of the tailstock while leaving it connected to the lathe.

Steps to move the sliding AB head stock
(1) unlock and move the tailstock onto the swing away
(2) lock down the tailstock,
(3)unlock the swing away,
(4) swing the tailstock away
(5) lock the swing away,
(6) move the the banjo
(7) unlock the headstock
(8) push the head stock into position.
( 9) lock the headstock.
(10) move the switch.
(Could do it without moving my feet but I would Be uncomfortable)

Steps to use an outboard equipped lathe
(1) move the switch
(2) flip the reverse switch

Sliding headstocks are not all that convenient. Somehow the mythology has grown to where people think sliding headstocks are the only way to get the shortbed turn in front.
Not so.

For stubby fans
(1) Unlock the bed
(2) swing the bed
(3) Lock the bed

 

[Mike Johnson]

They do make triaxial accelerometers that simplify the data collection and magnetic mounts make it easy to move a sensor from point to point
to collect the data. The triaxial sensor will provide a horizontal, vertical and axial data values from the sensor while it is mounted in one location.
These types of sensors require a precision recording device that samples the wave form readings for several seconds which allows a person trained in vibration analysis to determine the type of vibration and narrow the source of the vibration to the components of the machine. Different wave forms and patterns will usually point towards common problems associated with rotating equipment. (belt wear, pulley wear, bearing issue, out of balance load) If the belt and pulleys are in good shape the main cause of vibration for most turners will be the out of balance load mounted on the spindle. Changing the speed of the lathe, adding weight or stiffening/bracing/securing the lathe to the floor will reduce the level of noticeable vibrations. Depending on how out of balance a large wood billet is and the makeup of the mass of wood, some of these pieces can never be turned "true" as the piece rotates the out of balance wood billet and centrifugal forces are constantly working against the machine and the wood turners tools. Bigger machines usually provide the mass needed to overcome the forces when turning large out of balance wood billets. Bigger is better when it comes to turning large wood.

 

[Wayne Omura]

I feel that the American Beauty, Oneway, and Stubby are all very nicely made machines that will serve you well. The one to choose really is based on the little features and amenities that set each one apart. I have the AB and recently got a Powermatic 4224 from a friend. I really like the 4224 and I find it a very soild and a well made machine. Maybe you should take a look at one. I kind of feel that the 4224 is a heavy hitter and it comes with a 3hp motor. I hope I did not confuse you though the 4224 is a great lathe too.

 

[Don C Davis]

Well, I have spent the last week or so fooling around with the electrical 'jumper' on my Laguna 23-36, long story short I didn't find any combination that improved the performance, This and the tailstock spindle has rusted ridiculously--this and the bed has begun to rust in several spots that will not come off easily.--All these issues have me wanting a different lathe again. I am liking Vicmarc more and more as I study between the Oneway, Robust and the Vicmarc.

I think the Laguna is a nicely designed lathe, they just cheaped out on some things, like the alloy of the iron pieces and the quality of the VFD they use. I am going to be trying to sell the Laguna soon as it only has 3 hours or less on it at this time.
Thanks for all the input folks--Don

 

[odie]

I'm surprised we haven't had some interest/discussion of the Powermatic 3520C in this thread. Although I've never seen one in person, they do seem well designed, and the reputation of Powermatic for quality is well known.......

-----odie-----

 

[Bill Boehme]

When the B model came out they had a great introductory price of about $2400 which generated a lot of buying interest. While the C model is nice the price tag seems rather stiff for a lathe made in China. And it looks like import tariffs might raise the price even higher.

 

[hockenbery]

I'm surprised we haven't had some interest/discussion of the Powermatic 3520C in this thread. Although I've never seen one in person, they do seem well designed, and the reputation of Powermatic for quality is well known.......

-----odie-----

It’s a 20” machine.
The Powermatic 4224b is the 24” model. Runs around $8.
It is a heavy duty machine.
Haven’t used the new model. Have quite a few hours on the original 4224.
I found the Banjo and tailstock too cumbersome neither easy to move.

For me I would rather have a ONEWAY and second choice would be a Vicmarc or Robust.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Robust and Oneway both have outstanding customer support straight from the source. I have no information about Vicmarc customer support, but it is a top notch machine. I turned on one once. Very solid. I don't like the spindle design that constrains you to using only their chucks if you want to turn in reverse and keep the chuck from unwinding.

 

[Don C Davis]

Bill, that's new to me on having to use only their chucks--something I would definitely have to check into. I am in a mode of trying to sell my Laguna right now.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

When the B model came out they had a great introductory price of about $2400 which generated a lot of buying interest. While the C model is nice the price tag seems rather stiff for a lathe made in China. And it looks like import tariffs might raise the price even higher.

Tariffs.....looks like they may be implemented.....congress has not protected American interests

 

[JeffSmith]

Don - you can get a lot of opinions on which of these high end lathes is best,but the only one who can decide between them on what best fits your turning style and what you want to turn is you. Buying a premium lathe is, (at least it was for me) a major decision. Call the manufacturers or distributors and get a list of owners reasonably near you. Arrange to get some turning time on each. This was going to be the last lathe I’d buy - a retirement gift to myself.

Going through schematics and specs only gets you so far. Faced with the same decision I took a lot of time to search out opportunities to meet a few owners who graciously let me bring my tools, chucks and a few chunks of wood to make a mess of their shops. If the manufacturer or distributor balks at helping, you might be forwarned of potential customer service issues once you’ve plopped you cash down.The experience quickly narrowed down the list to one serious competitor. Ergonomics plays a bigger role then we think, finding a lathe that really fits is important - at least it was for me.

My advice - listen to all the voices, read all the literature, but trust your own experience.