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Hook & loop paper coming off

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by Raif Harik, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. Raif Harik

    Raif Harik

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2020
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Hi, I have these Velcro pads from woodturners wonders, and I have the blue sanding disks everyone likes. And I have a crappy angle drill like everyone.
    So I find that, well, something happens and the paper always comes of after 5 or so seconds. It's like the felt on the paper has gotten spun around and will no longer grip. I can put the drill in reverse and the pad stays but the pad spins off the mandrel.
    It essentially renders this process worthless. Does this happen to anyone/everyone else? Is there any solution? I'm fixin to just start using glue.
    Thanks,
    Raif
     
  2. Kent Jaffrey

    Kent Jaffrey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Warrenton, Virginia
    If they are used pads the hooks might be worn. You can get replacement hook pads to repair the holders from wood turners wonders. Often if the pad gets too hot you can melt the hooks so they don’t grab as much anymore.

    if they are new pads then I have no idea.
     
    Tim Tucker and odie like this.
  3. Dwight R Rutherford

    Dwight R Rutherford

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Sacramnto, CA
    Some causes;
    Lathe speed too fast. Heat build up breaks the H&L pad and paper down. Try about 300 rpm
    Drill speed too fast. (See above)
    Too much pressure being exerted, pushing against the piece too hard. (See above)
     
    Tim Tucker and odie like this.
  4. Tim Connell

    Tim Connell

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    Jan 22, 2018
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    121
    Location:
    Cameron, Illinois
    Ive not had the problems you've had with the same setup, but can think of possibilities. Like Kent said worn hooks, dirty pads, or too much pressure.

    One other thought, does the rigidity of the disks combined with the stiffness of the pads prevent a good mating of the two? I usually use the 1/2" black soft pads on top of the roloc pad. You might consider trying those if you havent.
     
  5. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    I always use the foam pads on top of the rubber disc, between it and the paper and get good life out of them. My experience with the hooks wearing out on the pads is heat - from pressure and speed. They're plastic and it's surprising how much heat you generate while sanding, especially with 80/120. Do some heavy sanding for a while and feel the pad or the other side of the bowl. It will be more than warm.
     
  6. Richard Coers

    Richard Coers

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    959
    Location:
    Peoria, Illinois
    The blue discs are mylar film right? Not sure about your paper comment. Hooks can actually be melted from too much pressure. I did have discs from Woodcraft, something like 10-15 years old. The loop material actually flies off. A little spritz of 3M 90 spray adhesive on the paper and back of the loops and it sticks it right back on.
     
  7. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    Randy is right, heat build up would melt the hook and loop. You can replace it yourself, I think I saw a video on YT about that.
     
  8. Dave Bunge

    Dave Bunge

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
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    Location:
    Midland, MI
    Others have explained why the velcro stops sticking. As far as the pad spinning off of the mandrel when you run the drill in reverse, that's just the way it goes with the Roc-Loc style of mandrel. I don't use them for that reason. I like to use both forward and reverse on my drill when sanding. Woodturners Wonders and other suppliers sell mandrels that have fixed pads that can be run in reverse.
     
  9. robo hippy

    robo hippy

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    The hooks do wear out over time. This is why you want to get a couple of good mandrills, and several 'interface' pads. The pads are cheap, the mandrills are more expensive. Like others have said, too much pressure, too fast of speed on the lathe and the drill are the main reasons the hooks wear. Slower sanding speeds on both drill and lathe actually let the abrasives dig in and cut. If you are going high speed, rather than cut better, they tend to skip and never really get the traction needed for cutting. I use firm interface pads for grits up to 180 to 220. I use medium pads after that, and if I go above 400, then I switch to soft pads. The firm pads, love the round edge ones from Vince, cut much better and are better for leveling. 180 grit on a firm pad cuts better than 120 on a soft pad.

    Oh, I have had cheap discs before where they had cheap adhesives to hold on the loop backing on the disc. I quit using that stuff after several discs separated from the loop backing...

    robo hippy
     
  10. Raif Harik

    Raif Harik

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2020
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    67
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ok! Well lots of good information.
    I do find the pads getting pretty hot. They are not very old though. Im down in Texas so the pads start out hot. Not much room from there. Can you visually tell if the loops are melted?
    I can easily control lathe speed and me speed. But the crappy angle drills go wicked fast. I know it's trigger controlled var speed but it's not that easy. I wonder if anyone has hooked up a limiter of some sort. Maybe even just a physical block on the trigger.
     
  11. Dwight R Rutherford

    Dwight R Rutherford

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    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Sacramnto, CA
    Controlling the speed on my HF right angle drill was a problem so I bought a HF router speed control that I use it to slow the drill down. Works well.
     
  12. Raif Harik

    Raif Harik

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2020
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Nice!
    Also just went out, looked like a lot of the "hooks" were standing straight up, like in a cartoon when they stick their finger in an outlet. Not sure why they didn't work (sarcasm).
    So it turned out I had some of the replacement hook stuff from when I first bought the kit. It didn't say how to do it so I decided to just try and sand it off, down to the yellow. Well first this was harder than I thought an I ended up with a quarter size circle of the black in the center. I then applied the adhesive backed hook material. On the one side it grabbed the papper like there was no tommorow. But in the other side it did not seem to grab the yellow very well.
    Idk maybe I was only supposed to sand the black down a bit and not down to the yellow. Maybe I pooched this pad. We'll see.
    And lastly, with hind site, I realize I was going WAY to fast before. I finished off my bowl (disappointment812020) much more slowly and the pad didn't get hot and, as Robo said, it really seemed to be more effective. Fun!
    Thanks all!
     
    Tim Connell likes this.
  13. Dennis J Gooding

    Dennis J Gooding

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    Location:
    Grants Pass Oregon
    A couple of comments. First, If the disk comes off while sanding fast, the hooks the will immediately suffer from abrasion and heat and sometimes the loss of the disk will not be noticed immediately. Second, velcro (both the hook stuff and the fuzzy stuff) are sold at any sewing supplies store, probably much more cheaply than buying ready-made disks.
     
  14. Timothy Hoyt

    Timothy Hoyt

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    Dec 21, 2018
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    Location:
    Clyde, North Carolina
    I once had a batch of discs that simply wouldn't "stick". Just one grit. Threw them out and life was back to good.
     
  15. bbergst

    bbergst

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    Jan 18, 2008
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    Location:
    Chicago Heights, Illinois
    The male hooks on the mandrel are easy to replace. Warm the surface with a lighter or heat gun. Careful, the glue is hot and will stick the worn out Velcro to your fingers. Cut some new Velcro and peal the back off and stick it on the mandrel.
     

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