Help with Jamieson hollowing with Hunter cutter

[Raif Harik]

Hi, I recently purchased a used Jamieson hollowing rig with the Hunter cutter. Bought if from here actually. And I really like it. It's the first time I've used a Hunter or any carbide cutter. I'm far more impressed by the Hunter than I expected to be.
That said, I'm having trouble understanding what I'm doing . More specifically, I'm having trouble understanding the positioning of the cutter. I understand that in some positions it can be used to "hog off" a lot of material, and in other positions it can be very fine.
I'm hoping someone can help me with this. Let's assume I'm doing a straight cylinder with flat bottom. I can extrapolate from there. If you are familiar with the Jamieson rig, essentially the cutter is on a short 3/16" bar. The bar is mounted on a circle and you can pivot the bar in 360 degrees. The cutter is mounted to the 3/16" bar at a "jaunty" angle.
So given all this, at what "time" (clock position) should I set it? Let me iterate the cases.
1) cutting perpendicular to the bed
a) aggressive
b) fine
2) pulling towards the tailstock, parallel to bed
a) aggressive
b) fine
3) create a center hole (say you didn't drill deep enough)
I think those are most or all the cuts I make.
I don't know if you have to have the J with the H cutter to know what I'm talking about but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
R

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I do not have the Jamieson but do use a Elbo hollowing rig and have several sizes of hunter cutters. Tim makes one that is mounted at and angle and regardless of what you do an angle is the best bet. That is both beginning a cut and cleaning up the cut.

Would not say you cannot get aggressive with these cutters but they do cut slower than a 1/8 inch straight which can get very aggressive.

I have found the pull cut to give me a better cleanup but has not a very good effect for hollowing. A very gentle pull cut will clean up a lot of mess in a hollowform.

Yes predrill for the depth you want and then you do not have to play with that little nib in the center of hollowforms. By the way there are several styles of holder for all bits and I think what you call a J cutter is one that adjusts toward a 45 degree angle.

 

[Richard Coers]

I suggest you go to the source for your help. Lyle has written extensively about his tools. He is quick to help anyone with his tools and even help those that make their own versions. https://lylejamieson.com/wp-content/uploads/press-carbide-cutters-HR.pdf

 

[Raif Harik]

Yea, I read that. I was hoping someone could dumb it down for me. That's why I was asking about a straight cylinder with flat bottom. I can under stand the position on the clock relative to the beds. But I just take what I'm getting from that doc with me to the lathe. It doesn't translate for some reason.
R

 

[john lucas]

I just used mine today. I'm on my phone and way too hard to type. I will.get on the computer in the morning and try to explain a few.things. I do need to know which cutter you have. Is the cutter mounted flat or at a tilt.

 

[Raif Harik]

Hi, yes typing on the phone does suck. Unless your twelve. In which case it seems to be innate.
So I think the Jamieson Hunter cutter only comes one way which is, it is attached to the little bar at an angle. A noticable angle, but I'm not sure what it is.
Thanks
R

 

[john lucas]

Well there are 2 styles of Hunter cutters for the Jamieson style hollowing rig. One has the cutter mounted at an angle facing back toward you. The other has the cutter mounted flat facing up. You can obviously rotate the cutter shaft around the clock face. With it straight out here is how I use it. For hollowing I do it 2 ways. One is to push the cutter into a pre drilled hole and then pull the cutter towards the outside taking a little bite. I do this just by squeezing my left hand which is about 1/2" or so cut. I move the cutter deeper and do this again. I do this about 5 or 6 times and then I go back where I started and do this again making the hole bigger. Then move down and make another step. This ends up being a series of steps and makes it easier to feel where to start the next series of cuts. The trick with that cutter is when you feeling for the step do it extremely lightly because the cutter will be a little grabby when pushed straight in.
The other method is to swivel the cutter to the left about 10 oclock. In this position the cutter should not be pushed straight in. It will be quite grabby. In this position it should be pulled to the outside or pulled back towards you. This position is incredibly good at cleaning up the inside of vases and things you can see into because it leaves a very clean cut. For hollowing I use the same technique as above but rather than pull the tool straight toward the wall I pull it from something like 2 oclock to 8 oclock. This cuts with the grain instead of across the grain and will chatter less especially when cutting deep.
I like the flat cutter thinning out the walls on hollow vessels. I angle it to the side at 3 oclock. I can feel the cutter better to it's easy to take just the lightest passes. My friend described passes like this as pulling your fingernail across the back of your hand and just barely feeling it. This is what I do when hollowing to thin a vessel for piercing. I prefer the flat up cutter when I want to push straight in. It feels more controllable.
Both cutters are excellent. The angle one is more versatile I think. Hope that helps. This video shows using the angled cutter on the side of a vessel.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v7-HMuCvvM&t=16s

 

[Dean Center]

John,
That's an excellent video for seeing what's going on. Thank you. (John has a series of similarly helpful videos on using the Hunter tools posted on youtube and the Hunter web site, in case you don't know.)

With the swan neck tool, it appears you are using the side of the cutter in a bevel riding cut. Are you doing the same with the Jamieson-style bit mounted straight tool or are you just cutting with the edge?

With the straight tool and a bit mounted cutter that is not angled back, when doing the side, do you use the bottom edge as a scraper, or are you also actually cutting?

Your description of how you do the bottom was very clear to me because I've made a lot of flat bottom boxes with a regular Hunter tool. I bet it would be easier for many folks to understand if there was also a short video selection, or a couple pictures of the tool orientation.

One thing Raif asked about was making a dimple in the bottom, as when you sometimes want to go a little deeper than the drilled hole. Could you describe how to start a cut at the bottom when there is no hole? That would be helpful to me.

 

[john lucas]

OK here goes, I'll try to answer them.

.... With the swan neck tool, it appears you are using the side of the cutter in a bevel riding cut. Are you doing the same with the Jamieson-style bit mounted straight tool or are you just cutting with the edge?

No, I just use the Hunter flat cutter as a scraper because most of the time I'm just hollowing or removing wood. Because the tool I have has a square shank I could tilt it 90 degrees and use it as a bevel rubbing tool across the bottom If the lip of the vessel was large enough to let me swing the support bar far enough.. You would be better off using the Hunter tool that has the cutter mounted at a tilt. It would not give quite as good a cut but would be soooo much safer.

....With the straight tool and a bit mounted cutter that is not angled back, when doing the side, do you use the bottom edge as a scraper, or are you also actually cutting?

No I just use it as a scraper. If I was doing an open necked vase I might rotate the cutter shaft so the cupped side of the cutter faces the wood and then shear scrape with the bottom lip. One trick I learned and this is going to be hard to describe. If your cutting with the bottom edge the wood is crossing the edge at 90 degrees and is a pure scrape. If you move the handle out away from the cutter the cut moves up the side of cutter and the wood is passing at a shear angle and it leaves a cleaner cut. To see this more easily take a round pan lid and hold it close to a board. You can see of you moved the board down it would rub across the bottom at 90 degrees. Now tilt the pan lid out a little. You will see how the cut moves from the 6 oclock position to maybe 7:30. This is a shear cut. This works fantastic with the Hunter #4 up the side of boxes.

....One thing Raif asked about was making a dimple in the bottom, as when you sometimes want to go a little deeper than the drilled hole. Could you describe how to start a cut at the bottom when there is no hole? That would be helpful to me.

To start the cut at the bottom you need to mount the cutter in the bar so it's straight out. Then you have to start the cut absolutely dead center. If you don't you get the dreaded cone in the bottom. Anyway you simply push in and then move the tool to left to enlarge the hole.

....Your description of how you do the bottom was very clear to me because I've made a lot of flat bottom boxes with a regular Hunter tool. I bet it would be easier for many folks to understand if there was also a short video selection, or a couple pictures of the tool orientation.

Here is my video of the Hunter #4 being used. About 6:22 I show how I use it to clean up the bottom and sides of a box.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfp2kvhH6Mo&t=346s

 

[robo hippy]

Maybe some day I should get the Hunter tools and cutters. I don't do many hollow forms, in part because I never developed the eye for their forms. Yes, practice would help. When turning boxes, I use scrapers to hollow, and NRSs to do any clean up. There was a technique that Dave Ellsworth used on hollow forms before all the laser systems came out. It was a free hand exercise rather than captures system. You would gently sweep from side to side, and up and down at the center to get rid of that nipple or cove. It does take some practice.

Side note, had any one tried Mike's tip for the Oneway bowl coring set up? He described it to me and it sounds interesting.

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

I haven't tried the new tips but Mike put a different shaped cutter on one of my McNaughton knives and man what a difference. I don't have it in front of me but I think it was simply a longer version of what is on the new tool.

 

[Raif Harik]

@john lucas Thank you for the very detailed answer. I have a couple follow up questions. Sorry I'm not quite getting it. So I have the hunter #1 cutter, that is mounted, not flat on the squarebar, but angled to the left. I think this is why I have trouble thinking about it, it becomes an ( even more ) compound angle in use.
So if I understand the first technique you describe correctly, you are saying, with one off these angle mounted cutters, in the 12:00 position, i.e. pointing in line with the bar, you push into the face of the material say 1/8" and then drag out to the outside edge of the vessel. Or in that direction if not all the way, and sort of clear out material in that way.
And the second technique is to position the cutter bar at around 9:00 to 10:00 and use it by pulling down the side of the vessel sort of parallel to the bed. So you'd insert the cutter inside the drilled out hole and basically make the whole wider and wider.
Then you kind of loose me by switching to the right side, (2:00 - 8:00) but if I try and reverse that in my brain, I'm thinking that you would make sort of scooping cuts which go in and slope towards you in a curve, removing material along the face of the curve.
First, am I anywhere close ?
Second, in the off chance that i am close, you say the 9:00-10:00 position is good for cleaning cuts, so I presume that would mean that the cutter is rubbing it's bevel in those cuts. If so does that just "magically" happen? or should I be looking up in there trying to make sure I've got the bevel rubbing ( baring in mind I'm in a captured bar system ).
I would also presume that that would not be the technique for just removing lots of material. Would the 12:00 position be what you use to get rid of the waste, and then the 9:00-10:00 position to clean up the mess?
Thanks for the help!
R

 

[john lucas]

Not sure where you saw the 2 oclock to 8 oclock position. I never use that. When you have the tilted cutter in the 10 oclock position or somewhere around there and pull it up the side it may or may not be truely riding the bevel but gives a cut that appears to be that clean. So it sort of funtions like a scraper as you pull it along but leaves a much cleaner cut. As far as removing a lot of material it will work in any position. I rotate the angle of the cutter to help me reach certain areas of the inside. 12 oclock for cleaning up the bottom and then maybe 10 oclock to clean up the area just above the bottom. 9 oclock or so for most of the rest of the vessel.