"fast and easy" finishes, let's think about it

[Steve Tiedman]

I, like a lot of people here, have been slopping stuff from a can onto wood surfaces for a long time, and over time we've come to respect this notion: Finishing the woodworking project is just as integral, and just as important, as any other step in the entire process of making the project.

I'll offer up this notion to every person who is new to woodworking- finishing is just as important as every other step in your project. Fast and easy have no part in this process. Prep work is the make-or-break point. Do not rush the finishing process, finishing takes time. Do not buy too-good-to-be-true snake oils. Do not make promises you cannot deliver upon (like starting a project today and delivering it, coated in properly applied finishes, in less than a week).

You only get out what you put into a project. Rush the finishing process and you will regret it. If the can says one coat every 2, or 8, or 24 hours, then respect that process and follow those directions. With time finishing will not be a chore and you'll respect it more when you see how much better it is when performed properly.

Change your thinking about finishing. You'll learn and understand, and your end result will benefit from your efforts, and you'll come to enjoy the process.

 

[hockenbery]

Well said

“It takes as long as it takes” is some of the best advice I got starting out.
Another is “finish the finish”

When I do things like instant gallery critiques at regional symposiums or judging woodturning competitions at the Florida State fair. There are often really well tuned pieces that catch my eye that have all sorts of streaks in the finish. Did the maker just run out of time or not have lights ?

 

[Bruce Miller]

I honestly do not like finishing, actually hate it.
But what I do not like even more is the poor finish that I just applied to a piece I have worked on tirelessly, whether flat work or round, just because I didn't take enough time/have enough patience to sand through the grits correctly, and I admit I have done this multiple times just to have to go back and sand off the finish, tool marks and or streaks that "I didn't have enough time for" in the first place.
I've gotten better of late but still not as deliberate and patient as I hope to be.

 

[Owen Lowe]

Every finish has its pros and cons. That which applies easily, generally speaking, doesn't look good in the long term and is hard to repair. Materials that take effort with multiple applications tend to continue to look good years down the road and are relatively easy to repair.

Then there's that element of personal preference. What I prefer in the appearance and characteristics in my finished (pun intended) work is different than what others may prefer. Also, what I want to tolerate as to vapors and personal precautions also plays a role. In order to find the finish material that fits my criteria took time and effort.

Every new turner needs to go through the process of exploration to find the process that works to their preferences.

 

[Clifton C]

Steve, couldn't agree more, sometimes a reminder of "fast is slow... slow is fast...." is in order. Or, how come there is never enough time to do it right but always enough time to do it over? Or even; Fast, good, cheap, pick two.
Two things that helped me was using quality sandpaper (film) (I use Vince's Blue flex), and then learning how to finish the finish.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Folks, I really hate it when I have to play mediator. Let's not forget the number one rule here at the Forum: be nice. Do not add fuel to the fire or respond to an obvious post that is breaking the rules. Next time just let Admin know someone forgot the rules.

 

[Tim Connell]

Steve, thanks for starting this thread and voicing your comments which I completely agree with. I've been a flat woodworker for much longer than a turner, and when I bought a lathe and started looking at what was being sold as finishes, I was shocked. Snake oil is an apt description for many.

Bob Flexner's book(s) should be a must read for every turner. Too often, problems arise from people not understanding the chemistry involved, and retailers taking advantage of that ignorance.

Every craftsman should have a sign (or more than one)in their workshop to remind themselves what Clifton posted above:

"Fast, Good, Cheap - Pick Two"

"Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over."

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Thank you, Tim (and Hock, Bruce, Owen, Clifton, Emiliano, and James, too), I appreciate your thoughts and input.

Thinking about Tim's words, it does seem, well, I don't want to say strange... how flat board wood finishing and finishing for turnings seem to be almost in two different arenas. We apply finishes to protect the wood surface from dirt and stains, and moisture, and to accentuate the grain and color patterns. But cabinetmakers, whether they like to or not, will take painstaking time and effort with finish to "get it right", yet over the years I've seen turners, and suppliers marketing to turners, push in the direction of instant gratification. Whether the flat work or turning is decorative, ornamental, or hard-core utilitarian, thought, care and effort need to be put forth to the finishing process to make the project what you really want it to be.

Don't let me mislead anyone that I'm some sort of master of these things, but I do strive toward getting it right, and I hope to get other to see it that way, too. If it's worth doing, we may as well do it right.

 

[Doug Freeman]

flat board wood finishing and finishing for turnings seem to be almost in two different arenas.

I agree, and to an extent they can be. I know many folks get into turning with the expectation of doing a complete project in a day or less (I read enough of their comments on forums). Many have been flat ww’s and try turning due to this perception. There’s an entire market space for those turners after “instant gratification”. Other than these quick hitters, turning and flatwork finishing have a lot in common.

Far too many ww’s, flat or round, dont consider finishing a skill just like the other skills they have worked at to perfect. WW’s spend tremendous time learning about and perfecting use of equipment, tools, and methods. Finishing has equipments, tools, and methods that require the same kind of attention to develop. There are no shortcuts.

 

[John Walls]

I'm a rookie turner so I'll mention what I do for a finish, 8 outa 10 times. After going through the sanding process, I use shellac. First coat is shellac conditioner. If the wood is soft/punky, I hit it with conditioner mixed 50/50 DNA/shellac conditioner. Let that dry, usually about 10 minutes it's completely dry. Then I hit it with a couple light coats of shellac, use the white pad to buff/remove the dust/nibs, etc then a couple more coats of shellac. I find the coats go on and dry pretty fast and buffing out the last coat makes it fairly glossy. I use clear shellac. If I'm patient and let each coat dry before the next, I'm usually done in a couple hours. I put it on a shelf and let it do it's final drying for a couple days. To me, that's fast and easy. The nice thing about shellac, if I eff it up along the way, it's quick to sand off. It's also easy to fix a drip/run by rubbing that area with fresh/wet shellac as it blends easily. Yup, I'm a rookie and still learning, probably faster/easier(?) ways to finish. I have used EEE for a real quick finish but don't know about the longevity of it. IMHO

 

[Dean Center]

This is a very interesting thread and one that hopefully can be educational without being upsetting.

To that end, I'm gonna stand up and drop my drawers. I've been woodworking casually for 50 years and turning for about 10, and I struggle with finishing. There are lots of reasons why, but I've had a very difficult time improving. Analyzing and solving turning problems is reasonably straightforward and getting help with an issue from a local turner or here on the forum is quite easy. With finishing, I've read books and watched videos and asked my club members and read the threads here, and I still can't figure out whether a finish truly looks good, where I may have erred, or how to improve. A few years ago, I got frustrated enough to search for a class on finishing, and could find only one and that was far, far away and impractical.

My best resource has been taking a finished piece to my good friend who turns and he is able to see things I never saw at home. He's quite nearsighted and seems to have microscopic eyes compared to me. I've had an undiagnosed astigmatism my whole life and had laser treatment for a near miss retinal detachment a few years ago, so maybe it's my vision. But I spend endless hours removing dust nibs that don't have to be seen to be identified, and have yet to find a way to do so on the inside of a bowl without adding new scratches. When I get rid of the dust nibs, then more finish goes on, with more dust nibs or drips or other flaws showing up. And how do you know when you've got enough finish on????

Yes, I use oil finishes and generally can get an acceptable result. But how confining is that? To only make utility pieces. Many decorative pieces need a shiny surface to look right and please the recipient. Those of you who sell your work have seen customers gravitate to or be more likely to purchase shinier work. They're not thinking about maintaining or repairing the finish over time, they just know they like how it looks.

Thanks for allowing me to vent my long standing frustrations. Am I the only one, or have others also had trouble making progress with their finishing?

 

[Ric Williams]

No Dean, trust me, you're not the only one. I've only been at this a couple of years, and lately I've noticed a change in my sanding and finishing results. The problem is, the change has been for the worse. I'm sure I'm the problem, but I haven't figured out why yet. I suspect that I mainly need to force my self to be more diligent and patient. Patience is not one of my strong points. I just ordered the new edition of Bob Flexnor's book, so I expect to be finishing like a pro by the end of the week.

 

[Timothy Allen]

With the dust nibs, isn't the problem the dust? I suspect that to get a truly magnificent finish one probably needs a separate isolated and sealed room, climate controlled, with excellent lighting, and a very-well filtered air supply to go with lots of exhaust ventilation. In some industries, these spaces are known as "Clean Labs" or "Paint Booths"

 

[Owen Lowe]

But I spend endless hours removing dust nibs that don't have to be seen to be identified, and have yet to find a way to do so on the inside of a bowl without adding new scratches. When I get rid of the dust nibs, then more finish goes on, with more dust nibs or drips or other flaws showing up.

Some methods to minimize dust as much as possible:

• accept the fact that dust nibs will happen, you are trying to minimize them;
• vacuum or use compressed air to blow off the surface, in the grain, in the details, etc.;
  
• do your finishing in an area away from surface and airborne dust;
• use a tack cloth prior to finish application;
• strain your finish if you suspect it isn't free of impurities;
  
• use a lint-free applicator (dedicated brush, cheap paper towels, airbrush/sprayer);
• allow the applied finish to cure in a location away from air vents, foot traffic, activities that may kick up dust;
  
• between coats use a light abrasive on the entire surface to smooth and remove nibs;
• repeat.

 

[Tim Connell]

I'll add a very simple trick to Owen's list, put a clean box over the top of your project after finish is applied.

Also, be careful if you buy and use a "tack" cloth, some of them have added substances that could leave residue on the project. I use cotton shop towels with whatever solvent you have on hand to remove sanding dust (mineral spirits, alcohol, naphtha.

 

[Russell Nugent]

I don't have much choice but to finish in my small shop so generally I just end up using danish oil or tung oil. I can't really spray in my shop, sometimes I can do laquer outside. Maybe after the kids are gone I can build myself a nice shop with a good fan and ventilation.

 

[Dean Center]

I'll add a very simple trick to Owen's list, put a clean box over the top of your project after finish is applied.

I've considered this, but in no time at all, boxes sitting around the house have dust on them. I apply finish in a separate room from where I work, but it's a 109 year old house with decades of coal dust and other people's dandruff wafting all over the place. I may build a finish 'booth' in box form and vacuum the outside from time to time.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I think I remember an article in Am. Woodturner where a guy built a finishing booth/chamber that doubled as a photo booth.

 

[William J Smith]

Maybe after the kids are gone I can build myself a nice shop with a good fan and ventilation.

Russ:
I chuckled when I read your post. I'm 71, the kids moved out 10 years ago, and I'm still in the tiny garage-based workshop. I keep telling my wife I'm going to have a bigger shop ... someday. It's fun to dream

 

[Lou Jacobs]

other people's dandruff wafting all over the place

Dean, you’re sure it’s only other people’s?

 

[Tom Gall]

I've considered this, but in no time at all, boxes sitting around the house have dust on them. I apply finish in a separate room from where I work, but it's a 109 year old house with decades of coal dust and other people's dandruff wafting all over the place. I may build a finish 'booth' in box form and vacuum the outside from time to time.

If you store the boxes upside down you would avoid the dust in the interior. Depending on the size of your pieces you can use a plastic pail (like the BigBox stores sell) .... you can stack a bunch of them upside down if need to.