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face shield respirator

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by john lucas, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    I am in need of a good face shield respirator. I've been breathing wood dust for 35 years now. I do run a dust collector all the time but that only picks up part of it. I purchased a Trend Air/pro a few years ago and it sits in the box. I can't stand to wear it. I friend showed me a new JSP Active Powercap that he purchased to replace his Trend faceshield respirator. Looks nice but I didn't try it on. I did a brief search this morning after seeing the Air Pro face shield in the Klingspor catalog. It looks like you can get something for as little as $221 for the 3M-M100 up to $479 for the Powercap. Money is a pretty serious problem right now so it would be hard to spend $500 (after taxes and shipping I assume) so naturally looking at the lesser priced units. Anybody have one of the 3m-M100. I do have a 3m repirator that I wear when doing really dusty stuff but that doesn't have a face shield. I like it so it makes me think their M100 might be pretty good. The Trend is heavy and I just feel claustraphobic with it on.
     
  2. Michael Nathal

    Michael Nathal

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    The 3M M100 is just the helmet. You still need to buy the fan/filter unit that you wear on a belt. Perhaps you could wear a respirator underneath the helmet but there are lighter weight options. It is quite comfortable though.
     
  3. Ron Vasser

    Ron Vasser

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    I had eye surgery10 weeks back. They put a shunt in my eye and told me I had to stay out of the dust. I had just been turning a few months when this happened and want to get back in the shop but like JVD stated that's a lot of money to spend. I bought a Versaflo M-series and fabbed my airflow system with an old c-pap machine and hoses. It has a foam and HEPA filter and I found a video on how to increase the air output to the maximum. I mounted the c-pap overhead, stretched a wire over my work area, attached the hose to the wire in two places, and dropped the end down to a swivel coupling attached to the Versaflo. I can move all around my work area as the hose slides on the overhead wire. It works great with a cooling positive airflow over my face, no dust in, no batteries to charge, and no added weight to my waist. ( I have enough there as it is). Checking around I found the retired c-pap machines are not that hard to come by. I hope this may give someone an idea of how to have a safe workplace with money left over for TOOLS! The m-100 is lightweight and I covered the two openings in the top with duct tape. It works great.
     
  4. Bill T Tucker

    Bill T Tucker

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    John, we will be at the TAW turn-in, training for new turners, at the Baptist Children's Home shop this Sat morning. I'll be wearing my 3M respirator shield. If you are free and are up for the drive to Brentwood, you would be welcome to try it on to see if you like it. Maybe we can think of some aftermarket sources.
    bill
     
  5. egsiegel

    egsiegel

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    I have a Trend Air Pro that I am going to sell if you are interested...message me if you are.
     
  6. Hal Taylor

    Hal Taylor

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    John, I’ve been using the JSP unit for about a year. Love it. Lightweight, easy to use, easy to put on and off, less expensive.
     
  7. RichColvin

    RichColvin

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    I have used the Trend Airshield Pro for about 5 years now. It is heavier on the head than the 3M Versaflo, and that weight is why I understand that more women turners opt for the 3M Versaflow. You'll see Ashley Harwood using hers in almost all her videos.

    I find that as when wear the Trend Airshield during longer turning sessions, I forget I have it on. I do realize it when I go to scratch my nose and bonk my finger into the face shield or go to get a drink of water.

    As for the use of a powered respirator, I highly recommend one. Since I moved to using the Trend Airshield, I have found that I feel loads better after situations that cause a lot of dust (especially power sanding). I also have fewer and less severe sinus headaches.

    There have been many articles published about the health issues with sawdust, and there is now an OSHA safety standard for commercial woodworking shops. If I remember correctly, the maximum allowed airborne dust is 1 tablespoon per 8 hour shift in an environment the size of a 2-car garage.

    So, yes it is an investment. But healthcare costs are higher.

    As a side note, I also find that the Trend Airshield has saved the top of my head a number of times. The helmet helps buffer banging the old noggin on stuff that has hurt in the past.

    Kind regards,
    Rich
     
  8. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    Unless you are wearing a NASA space suit you will never exclude all dust particulate from reaching your lungs, besides dust particulates you also have a number of chemical fumes that you want to prevent breathing that can cause harm over time. If you don't have a face shield and respirator wearing a cheap N95 dust mask will help catch a good percentage of particulate until you get the proper P.P.E. for the work you are doing. Turn the lights off in your shop and shine a flash light in your work area and you will see the dust particulate you are breathing every day without equipment running. You would need to set your shop up as a ISO Class-3 (Class-1 Fed STD 209E) Clean Room to eliminate all dust particulate in the air. Take any sample of air you breathe in your house or outside and you will find a multitude of pollens, molds, fungi spores, bacteria etc. It is the accumulative effects of long term exposure to wood dust that harms most people over time, many people develop an allergic response to many wood types which can then affect your lungs and body tissues. Reduce your exposures and you reduce the accumulative effects over time, however a good heavy dose of wood dust you are allergic to can send you to the hospital if you are unaware of the sensitivity to that species of wood.
     
  9. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    I have owned and used the Trend Airshield and I have tried out the JSP Active Powercap at the AAW show. The Powercap is much lighter and more comfortable to wear, more like the weight of a hard hat than a piece of machinery. I thought the air flow was good and I was able to wear it comfortably for 10 minutes or so while I looked around the booth. However, I felt the visor was distorting my view and for that readon I passed on it. Also, I don't recall if the visor offers the impact resistance of a face shield. If you have the opportunity to try out the Powercap you should also look at these issues.

    I will say that between the two you're much more likely to wear the Powercap than the Airshield, and nothing does you any good in the box.

    In the end I bought the Sundstrum which I like very much (plenty of air flow for me), and Bill and Emiliano are very happy with the 3M systems they built, but all of these are more costly solutions.
     
  10. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    If your eyes are the main concern they do make safety glasses with foam seals around the rims that seal around your eyes if you can select the ones that will conform to your head, they also make goggles with foam seals that allow them to breath which is critical depending on how hard you are working. 3M makes a good selection of these products or you can look on WWGrainger for a large selection of these P.P.E. items. A work shop will always have a certain amount of dust in the work area which is difficult to control no matter how much dust control equipment you employ. When I wear a full face hood at work I wear safety glasses with foam seals that breath to prevent my eyes from drying out with the forced air ventilation under the hood. Each person will have their own requirements depending on their personal needs, many times you need to customize a solution for each person. Some people can wear a hood, some people can wear a full face mask, some people can wear a partial face mask.
     
  11. Roger Chandler

    Roger Chandler

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    John, I have just had about 3 months of going through respiratory issues. I've been to 3 doctors with the problem. It started with some type of repiratory bug that was going around our area, and to which the state of Virginia Health Department sent out advisories regarding it. My wife got the notice because she is a Registered Nurse. Really bad stuff. I have been using my Trend Airshield Pro for about 6 years now, and have two of them. I have always wondered how really effective they were. I got my answer yesterday from the Pulmonologist who did x-rays and a full blown series of Spirometry tests. X-rays show my lungs are healthy normal! The most important result of the spirometry tests is the one that tells you how much oxygen is being transferred from your lungs into the blood stream to go thru your body...normal for my age is about 85-88%.......mine measured 130%!

    Sinus is another issue.....my ENT specialist said I have some blockages in my sinus cavities that should not be there, verified by a CT Scan and scope proceedure......he said, caused by mold. Back in May, we had a pipe burst inside a wall, and for two days did not realize it until the carpet in the downstairs den was soaked......no matter how much water we extracted with the shop vac and carpet cleaner, mold set in when drying out...it was terrible! That allowed a fungal wall to be built inside my sinus cavities, and I am doing irrigation treatments with a specially compounded medicine that should take care of that over the next few weeks.

    Just wanted to say the Trend is an effective unit, if you use it. I would encourage you to do so. Some time in the future, I may spring for a 3m Versaflow system, but cost is indeed prohibitive. It's filtration is only a bit better because of the heppa filter unit, but with proper changing of the Trend filters, you can do very well. I also use an overhead air cleaner in my shop, and turn on the dust collector when sanding to catch all I can directly. My 1200 cfm DC has a pleated 1 micron cannister filter on it. I think I'm doing about as good as I can to protect myself from harmful dust.
     
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  12. Dwight R Rutherford

    Dwight R Rutherford

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    I have been using the Trend AirShield Pro for over 10 years. Four or five years ago I modified the unit by removing the battery and re-locating it to my belt. Very easy to do. Now it is much more comfortable.
     
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  13. Bill Blasic

    Bill Blasic

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    John look at the Resp-O-Rator it is super light, can easily be worn under a face mask, exhausts downward so no fogging, good to .3 microns and is reasonably priced. I wear my airshield pro when turning dry wood but when sanding I have found nothing that beats the Resp-O-Rator for protection and ease of use.
     
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  14. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    bill I looked at them when they first came out. I guess I'd feel like I was snorkling all the time. Not the thing for me. That's why I bought the 3m dust mask I use now. I would have to look up the number if anyone is interested. It's not bad for 15 minutes of sanding but would not want to wear it much longer than that.
     
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  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I've never had neck problems until a few months ago. Now, I can empathize with those who have problems wearing anything heavy on their head. I have both the Versaflo M407 and Airstream AS400 powered respirators. While I haven't had much time to compare one against the other yet, my current feeling is that the Airstream might be more comfortable.
     
  16. Doug Freeman

    Doug Freeman

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    I have had the 3M Versaflow for ~1 yr. Includes the fan, filters, belt, battery, charger, etc. Been very pleased with it. Comfortable to wear all day, plenty of flow for me on the low setting, absolutely no fogging. Also use it with a chemical filter when I spray. Much better than a non pressurized respirator in terms of comfort and fogging.

    The downside is cost. Thru specials etc I pieced the system together for ~ $800 vs $1300 retail. There are cheaper ways to supply correctly filtered air to the helmet. If you have a large air compressor valving is available to use it. You would need to use an organic filter for oil mist.
     
  17. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I've wondered about using one of my old CPAP machines to supply the air. It seems like they should be able to supply plenty of air.
     
  18. Ron Vasser

    Ron Vasser

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    Working in the paper, electrical generating, and Nuclear industry I've worn all types of air supplied suits and headgear. Some were very heavy and uncomfortable. The 3M Versaflo is really light and fits well. This was done really cheap with plenty of airflow. The air supply is mounted overhead with the hose attached to a zipline in several places and allows me to move anywhere in my work area.

    P1015518.jpg
     
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  19. AlanZ

    AlanZ Resident Techno Geek

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    Note that there are a few head top series in the VersaFlo line. The M100/M200 is the lightest, the M300 is the mid weight and hard hat rated, the M400 is the heaviest and helmet rated.
     
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  20. Dennis Weiner

    Dennis Weiner

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    Mine does! I have tested my Resmed Air Sense 10. The CPAP supply hose fits directly into my Versaflo M300 headgear. Another Convenience is that the CPAP hose will also mate into 3/4 PVC pipe.

    First, You have to adjust the settings on your CPAP to maximum air flow and switch off any settings that defeat continuous airflow. You should probably test how long a hose you can use with your unit before you have air velocity loss. I started with the standard 6 foot hose then connected a 9 foot hose(via a small piece of pvc as an interface) to make a 15 foot distance between the m300 and the CPAP. There was a small velocity loss but it was more that sufficient and comfortable. I then added another 6 foot hose and I noticed a slight loss. I I proceeded to add an 8 foot PVC pipe giving a total of 29 feet from the CPAP. At this distance, there was no longer sufficient output.
    My original idea was to have the Cpap unit in another room that is a dust proof environment and feed the air supply line though my shop wall. This method was not going to work for my situation. I did not want the Cpap in the same dusty and dirty environment clogging its air intake filter. I also use this equipment at night.
    I will solve this problem by building a dust proof box to contain the CPAP. The box will have a vent hose receiving fresh air from outside the shop and this will keep the air supply hose down to 15-18 feet well within the range that I tested.
    cpap300.jpg

    The advantages for me was obviously cost. Like Emiliano, I found the m300 on EBay or Craig’s list about 6 months after he posted about his find. Thank you @Emiliano Achaval for sharing.
    Additionally, I’m breathing in fresh air/keeping cool and safe for a under 225 dollars total cost. Another advantage is I don’t have a noisy fan blowing in my ear and I am not wearing a battery that will impact my bad back.
    The minor drawbacks: I have to carry the CPAP upstairs and reset the configuration for sleep every time I turn. The Online Cpap reporting can not distinguish my sleep vs my Versaflo usage and over reports Sleep apnea events. I have not figured out how to stop Cpap transmission while I’m using the unit for woodturning. Another annoyance is that you have to remember that you are connected to a helmet and a hose when you are moving about in the shop.
    All in all, I’m thrilled with it.

    Also like to shoutout a thanks to @AlanZ for all his helpfully advice. As a fellow local club member, I am very fortunate to have access to him and his very talented wife, Lauren.

    Before I go, I thought I would mention that I spoke with my anesthesiologist Friend regarding the safety of using an untested air supply. He suggested that I sit in a chair for a while take my pulse and take it again a few minutes after. If I’m not getting the right amount of oxygen, my pulse rate will elevate. He also reiterated to make sure i sterilize/clean the hoses and masks regularly just as I do with Cpap equipment. A point well taken and should be considered for all PAPR systems.

    To test, I sat in my easy chair and turned the tv on with Cpap Versaflo combo running for awhile. Ironically, I tuned in on the movie Outbreak with Rene Russo wearing the full bio suit with external air supply.
    I watched the remainder of the movie with the Versaflo and Cpap running!
     
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  21. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I have several old CPAP units that go back to twenty years ago. The only reporting on the oldest one was verbal. The way to deal with loss of pressure is to use large diameter pipe or hose in the long run between the machine and the final six feet of ¾" hose that connects to the helmet. You could even use shop vac or dust collector hose as long as it is new hose. :D

    If there is too much back pressure the machine will interpret that as the user exhaling and automatically drop the output pressure so you not only have the pressure loss of the small diameter hose, but also reduced output from the machine.

    CPAP devices have air flowing both directions which is the reason for needing sterilization. A PAPR device should be purely one way through the hose although it would be a good idea to keep the inside of the helmet clean.

    FWIW, the air output from my CPAP is far less than it is from my BreatheEasy turbo unit ... I would estimate somewhere between a fourth and half the air volume.

    My BreatheEasy isn't quite In the same category as a leaf blower, but it's definitely a stiff breeze. :D :rolleyes:
     
  22. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    I would add one thing to what Bill has said about CPAP cleanliness. The water that collects in the hose is an ideal place for certain bad bacteria to grow. With a CPAP, a lot of the moisture comes from exhaling. You won't have that particular issue with PAPR, but you are still likely get some moisture in the tube. If so, drain it and make sure the tube dries out in between uses, and sterilize periodically.
     
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  23. Dennis Weiner

    Dennis Weiner

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    I’ll add to Dean's clarification that some units come with a humidifier adding additional moisture. I top mine with distilled water nightly before use.
    I don’t know the engineering evolutionary history of all CPAP machines, but my machine is not a two way system, the air flows in one direction to provide CPAP by definition: Continuous Positive Airway Pressure. There are sensors and sophisticated microprocessors in the unit that detect changes in pressure in the line and either rev up/down the pressure and volume of air flow to keep the pressure constant. There are vents with valves in my CPAP mask that accommodate exhaled air. Granted, not all Cpap machines are made the same.
    When I looked up maximum flow rate for Versaflo it was in CFM, the Cpap was expressed in pressure.
    Apples and oranges. So it’s was all about experimentation to get my CPAP unit to work as a PAPR.

    I guess, @Bill Boehme , you’ll have to test your each of your Cpap units. I’d be curious if your Breathe-easy with a 15-20 foot hose would provide sufficient airflow at your helmet.
     
  24. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I can assure that some of your exhaled air does go back down the hose ... hopefully not a lot if your mask is well designed, but the vent holes in the mask are not capable of handling the full volume of exhaled air all at once. Besides that, within the mask itself fresh and exhaled air get mixed together because there isn't any way to keep them separate. My current CPAP is a Phillips System One with cellular and Bluetooth, sauna, heated hose and maybe even GPS and backup camera. Roadside assistance and Sirius XM are optional. :D

    We need to look at the sum of all pressures in order to determine flow direction not just pressure from the CPAP. When you exhale, sensors in the machine detect that and immediately drop the pressure 2 to 4 cm-H₂O. Obviously, in order for you to be able to exhale the pressure from your lungs has to be greater that the pressure from the CPAP ... so which direction will the air be moving? (towards the CPAP ... doesn't matter what model you have).
     
  25. Dennis Weiner

    Dennis Weiner

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    Roflmao
    I think you need the air conditioning option for turning outdoors.
     
  26. Matthew Ferriter

    Matthew Ferriter

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    Did Rene affect your heart rate?
     
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  27. Richard Stiers

    Richard Stiers

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    I use a Cleanspace2 respirator. A bit combersome, needed to take half of my face shield off, but I have clean air.
     
  28. odie

    odie

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    I've had the Airstream AGH-1 for over 25 years now.....plus the Resp-o-rator for about 10 years. They both do excellent job of filtering the air you breathe. (The resp-0-rator is so cheap that everyone ought to have one for a back up.)

    A couple years ago, I upgraded the Airstream with a new motor, batteries, and smart charge unit. It was an upgrade that proved to be very welcome......but, still......it's a PITA to take on and off, especially if you're using a belt to hold the battery. That's the real disadvantage to all the powered respirators.......just too much stuff to deal with over and over again during a turning session. Still, I'm glad I have it, and I still use it.......

    I find myself using the ROR much more than the Airstream lately.....it's light as a feather, fits under the faceshield, doesn't ever fog and filters as well as all of the powered units. Just drop it from your mouth and it dangles under your chin......simplicity like that is very welcome when you start and stop often. Like John mentioned, the resp-o-rator is similar to snorkeling, and not everyone will get used to that. One thing I hated about the ROR, is the darn need to use a nose plug. (I only use noseplug while sanding, and find it's not necessary for lathe tool work, as the shavings are not airborne.) Hate, hate, hate the original ROR nose plug.....I tried other types of nose plugs with no improvement. None of them worked well, or comfortable, or stays put, or easy on and off......until I finally made my own about a year ago. (I'm writing myself a note to take a pic of it tomorrow.) It looks stupid and ugly as sin.....but it stays put, comfortable, and easy on and off.....it just works!

    -----odie-----
     
  29. odie

    odie

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    The noseplug is made from a small clamp cut down. The rubber tubing extensions give it some flexibility, and the "O" rings give it a little more grip at the base of the nose to keep it in place. See.....I told you it was ugly! It does work very well, though. :D

    -----odie-----
    IMG_5210 (2).JPG IMG_5211 (2).JPG IMG_5212 (2).JPG IMG_5214 (2).JPG
     
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  30. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    I'm sorry but I just find the respirator kind of rediculous. If I wanted to go scuba diving I would. That's why I'm looking for a better system that doesnt make me uncomfortable wearing it.
     
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  31. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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  32. odie

    odie

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    Howdy John......I kinda figured you wouldn't be interested, given your earlier post. My post was generally intended for anyone else who might be open to using the Resp-o-rator.......:D

    Hello Gerald.......you know......I did try ear plugs in the nose, but the concept didn't work out for me. They kept slipping out, and were a pain to take out and reinstall frequently.......:rolleyes:

    If the new nose plug were any wider they might interfere with vision, but I find they do not interfere with mine while doing lathe work........you can see that they're there, but it's sort of like a getting used to wearing a football helmet w/faceguard.....:)

    -----odie-----
     
  33. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the smile while lying here in the hospital feeling kind of glum. I'll return the favor by showing you my ugly mug.

    image.jpeg
     
  34. odie

    odie

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    I hadn't realized you were laid up, Bill.......whatever it is, hope you are up and running very soon! :D

    -----odie-----
     
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  35. Dennis Weiner

    Dennis Weiner

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    @Bill Boehme wishing you a speedy recovery: get well soon!
     
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  36. Stan Semeniuk

    Stan Semeniuk

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    Get well soon Bill!
     
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  37. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    Bill I guess you are getting mended as I see the beginning of a smile. Best for a quick recovery.
     
  38. Matthew Ferriter

    Matthew Ferriter

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    I've worked in respiratory disease research for the last 29 years. Those brown plastic tubes (that presumably started out clear) you're breathing through are making me twitch. Just a gentle suggestion that you might want to break it all down and run it through the dishwasher, or a good soak in very dilute bleach followed by lots of rinsing with clean water. Then let it dry thoroughly be reassembling.

    Personally, I can't imagine keeping the snorkel mouthpiece in my mouth for prolonged periods of time.
     
  39. Rob Fridenberg

    Rob Fridenberg

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    Location (City & State):
    Novi, Michigan

    I was thinking the same thing regarding the appearance, but I also love the spirit of invention/modifications from the folks on this site!!
     
  40. Tom Beatty

    Tom Beatty

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Location (City & State):
    Kennedale Texas
    Bill sorry to hear you are in hospital, get well soon
     

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