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Dust collector died...

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by John Walls, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. John Walls

    John Walls

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    So I am looking for a new one. Looking at 115v, don't want to mess with 220 wiring again. I have searched for info on here about the Grizzly G0860, only found one thread with little info. I would like a cyclone collector but open to other styles. I almost pulled the trigger on 220v Oneida but backed off for now. Looked at Jet, seriously turned off because it's made in socialist land, Powermatic (the one I like is on backorder) and finally Grizzly. In the end, IF I have to run another 220v line, so be it (really don't want to... LOL).
     
  2. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    Grizzly jet and Powermatic are all made innthe same country I think. May be wrong its. Been a while since I looked. I have a 2 bagger grizzly and like it. I had a 1 ag Powermatic that was OK but the Griz is bigger and twice as powerful. It did take 220. I prefer 220.but I can understand it can be expensive if you have to pay someone to install it.
     
  3. John Walls

    John Walls

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    I can run the 220v if I need to. Looking at a Laguna C/Flux:1 also. Is Oneida the only one made in the USA? If I end up running 220, it will be an Oneida I think but would really like to be able to use the 120v/20amp outlets I have.
     
  4. Dennis J Gooding

    Dennis J Gooding

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    In my opinion, a cyclone separator is a must if you use the unit in any serious way. A good cyclone will collect 99+ percent of the chips and dust and dump it into a canister that is easy to carry and dump and that requires no cleaning. Cloth filter bags are a PINTA to dump and clean which will be frequent if you do not have a cyclone.
     
  5. RichColvin

    RichColvin

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    Any feedback on the Laguna vs. the Jet?
     
  6. Ron Solfest

    Ron Solfest

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    My first was a 2hp Grizzly, after a couple years I made a home made cyclone for it and dumped the bags - much better. Used another 6-7yrs with cyclone.

    Moved houses and bought the biggest Jet cyclone. It was better than my previous. Used that for a dozen years.

    4yrs ago moved again. Installed a 3hp Oneida V. LOVE IT. Oneida costs more, but I’d recommend buying your last one first :) Go with the Oneida if you can afford it.
     
  7. Paul M. Kaplowitz

    Paul M. Kaplowitz

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    I have the Onieda Mini Gorilla 110v, and like it a lot. It is made in New York which is not, as far as I know a socialist land.
     
  8. John Walls

    John Walls

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    If I decide to put in 220, I will get the Oneida Supercell 55 gallon. After some reading, if I don't put in 220, I will get the Laguna Tools 1.5hp C/Flex:1. Looks like there is a long wait on either one so I have more time to read/compare.
     
  9. Tim Tucker

    Tim Tucker

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    I find that we tend to plan our needs for dust collectors a bit too "optimistic". We undersize based on our needs. Bearing in mind that the ratings on them are under perfect, lab conditions...that NEVER occur in the real world shop environment. Oversizing a dust collector results in no harm. Undersizing will leave you frustrated, and not getting the results you had hoped for - chiefly, keeping the air cleaner for your health and keeping your shop space cleaner. Duct design is incredibly important. Bill Pentz has a website that has a HUGE amount of information on it. Truly head-spin worthy if you try to speed read thru it. But really worth looking over. It even includes free plans and drawings for making your own 2 stage cyclone dust collector.
     
  10. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Not sure about the other systems, but I have a 3 hp Oneida, which can handle 2 machines at once. They will design your duct systems for you. They have some that are very small foot prints, and have flow ratings that you can trust. Other than them, I know of Clear View, and they got a lot of good reviews.

    I still don't trust Grizzly. Had a friend who got one maybe 10 years ago. He had to drill out most of the holes on the frame because they didn't fit or line up. The impellor blade was so out of balance that a local machine shop wouldn't even touch it to try to repair it, and he had to get it totally replaces. Major pain...

    Oh, you want the pleated paper filters, and not the cloth bags. You get far more surface area to vent through in a much smaller space. You don't need a 55 gallon waste barrel, I have the smaller, maybe 30 gallon ones. Only problem is if I 'forget' to check levels and the filter fills up.... I do take the filter out to clean it once in a while, and hosed the inside off. No problems with it.

    robo hippy
     
  11. John Walls

    John Walls

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    I was leaning towards the Grizzly until I started reading more about them. Many people have the complaint about the impeller being very out of balance so I threw that one out the window.
    My current collector is an older Delta. It had the cloth bag but the unit did not get used alot until I got my lathe. I just bought the canister filter for it, maybe 2 hours use and the motor problems started. I'm tired of messing with it so for sure I will get one with a canister. As far as the barrel size, I see most are within a couple dollars of each other on the Oneida so I figured the 55 would work. I'm sure the 30 would work fine too. When I order one, I'll flip a coin. :) I will be running, not at once, but a table saw, thickness planer, joiner, etc as I do a lot of flat-work also. That is.... when my better half allows me to park her car outside while I.... play....

    Love the advice I've received, thank-you everyone!
     
  12. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Here's my comment on the bin size, when it comes time to lug it to the curb I'd rather tote 30 gallons of sawdust that 55 gallons, even if I have to tote twice as often. In fact, 15 or 20 gallons is a bit to haul.
     
  13. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

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    I agree! ....especially when your shop is in the basement ....and you're an old guy .... and - - - - :(
     
  14. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

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    Curious, John.....what died? There are only two moving parts on a DC - the motor shaft and impeller. Did the motor burn out or just stop working? Did you check all the usual suspects - switch, outlet, circuit breaker, capacitor? I know....you just want a new shiny one! :rolleyes: All woodturners are the same!
     
  15. Ron Solfest

    Ron Solfest

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    Regarding canister size. Like Robo I have the 30gal because I have height limitations where I mounted it. 30gal is great plenty for lathe (only use for dust), tablesaw, bandsaw, mitersaw and even router table (not used for long periods). I often leave 2-4 gates open at the same time with the Oneida 3hp and it works great.

    When using the planer much it fills up FAST - I just hauled 3bags out from two days of shop work that included planing down 100-200 ft from rough. I’d love to have the larger barrel, but then would probably complain about the weight :)

    Don’t make the mistake of letting it overfill, I’ve done that a couple times and spent a long time cleaning out all the pathways through the cyclone, including a stuffed canister filter.
     
  16. Rob Fridenberg

    Rob Fridenberg

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    I think you really need to have a HEPA rated filter (especially if your shop is in your house), and then a properly designed cyclone to extend the life of the expensive HEPA filter. I know the DC will not collect all of the superfine dust at the tool, but the more you can keep out of your lungs the better. I know this is not a popular opinion among woodworkers.

    Purchasing a proper DC is expensive, but you pay now or you pay later. It doesn't take much to end up with $3k medical bills.....
     
    Ron Solfest likes this.
  17. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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  18. John Walls

    John Walls

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    Shiny/new is fun!! Seriously, even though I can afford it, it is coming out of my new camper fund. I'd rather have the new camper but with covid... not going to happen this year.

    Motor at first would run up about half speed then pop the push button breaker on the motor controll. It started working good after a cleaning. Worked good that day and now, it just does that electrical grunt/groan and pops the breaker on the motor control box. It is plugged into a 20amp circuit that I put in bout 6 months back. I can spin the impeller freely, no catches, no lags, it will spin quite a while showing no resistance at all. I have toyed with replacing the capacitors in the box but frankly afraid to mess with capacitors, from my old'n days of working on airplanes, those things from what I remember can pack a heart stopping wallup. The older I get, the more and more I just don't want to mess with 'lectric anything. I've also toyed with just purchasing a new 'lectric motor. Yea, new/shiny is calling me but....... tomorrow is a new day.
     
  19. Paul Grenier

    Paul Grenier

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    I had the large Delta dust collector for a lot of years when I did almost all flat work utilizing a table saw, 15" planer, 8" jointer, etc. etc. and I got tired of the amount of dust in the air and issues with the cloth bags so I switched to a 3 hp Oneida V system. What an amazing difference in dust capture as well as planer, jointer and router table debris. It is also quieter - and my wife will happily attest to that.
     
  20. Randy Anderson

    Randy Anderson

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    I've probably gone through more iterations on DC setups than anything else in my shop. Started too small with dumb design and over time have something now that works. Will echo some of the same things - go bigger than you think you need, 30 gal trash can with separator on top is great, scoop up what you can with a shovel first then suck up the rest, use 4"+ hose wherever you can, filter bags are a real pain. I would get more stuff on me cleaning the bag than turning a bowl. Like others said - since the trash can gets the finer particles and packs it down it will be VERY heavy when it gets full.

    I'm also considering and upgrade/change. My current system vents to the outside - a great solution if you can do it. Anything not trapped by the separator goes outside - no filters. The downside is it creates neg air pressure in the shop so makes it a challenge to keep it cool in the heat of the summer since I use a portable AC that creates its own neg pressure. Friend of mine recently got the Jet 650CK and really likes it.
     
  21. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

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    Any motor repair shops nearby?..... they aren't afraid. :D Use the Yellow Pages (do we still have those?) - or the technology version. :)
     
  22. John Walls

    John Walls

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    Repair shop is 30ish miles from my place. I called and talked to them, they said sounds like starter cap. They said we don't have that one in stock but for $5 they will order it for me. I figured, what do I have to loose, so I went for it. I looked at it, decided I can due 2 screws without shorting myself out so we will see if that fixes it. Hope it does but for $5, gotta try. If it does fix it, I'm still going to modify mine. I'll get a cyclone adapter and give it a shot. It has a new canister/filter, sure would be nice to not spend 2-3k for a new set-up. Especially since my log splitter took a dump, ordered a new one today.... it's always something..... LOL

    I took the motor out of my DC, put it on my workbench and plugged it in. Hit the switch, does the motor strain/grunt then pops the breaker. I reset the breaker, hit start then gave the shaft a spin, it takes right off every time. As long as the shaft is turning, it spins right up. Yup, I thunk da start cap is the cause.
     
  23. Joe Kaufman

    Joe Kaufman

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    You might verify that the centrifugal switch contacts are closed for starting. If there is no centrifugal switch (unlikely) then it could be a current sensing relay and you would probably need help. If the contracts don't open as the motor comes up to speed then you get the condition you described as "Motor at first would run up about half speed then pop the push button breaker". Careful, don't smoke the motor windings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  24. John Walls

    John Walls

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    Thanks for the info. If the cap does not fix it, I will drop it off at the repair shop for their help, it would be over my head/experience. I was trained in aircraft electronics, not elec. motors and it has been a looooooong time. If they say it takes alot to fix it or needs replaced, I will again look at a new cyclone.
     
  25. Tom Gall

    Tom Gall

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    I think that will save you more than a few bucks $$$$$. :)
     
  26. GRJensen

    GRJensen

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    Capacitor(s) may be okay ... could also be the centrifugal switch. I have had 2 Laguna motors where the centrifugal switches failed, resulting in the same issue you are seeing.
     
  27. John Walls

    John Walls

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    Picked up the starter capacitor this morning. Got to it after lunch, changed out and plugged it in. Spun like she was new. Put collector back together, fired 'er up and she went to town, sucking up a storm. Well, as good as a `20 yr old tool. So far, so good. Guy at electric shop said it is what he calls a throw-away motor, not if but when it dies, better off replacing the whole unit. So, I guess next time it dies, I'll have my oneida fund built up. For now, she's alive! Back to making shavings! Well, maybe after I fix hydraulics on one tractor, leak on another, then rewire a friends tractor, mow 3 acres covered in leaves, til those leaves/grass under in garden, butcher bout a dozen roosters, cut another load of firewood... man... it never ends. I want to turn-baby-turn!
     
  28. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Umm, maybe if the motor dies again, get a good motor to replace it. Sounds like every thing else on the DC is good. That would be a cheaper solution. I hate throw away tools....

    robo hippy
     
  29. John Walls

    John Walls

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    Motor shop quoted me $600 out the door for a replacement motor. I'm sure I could find one for less, but that replacement cost is much more than I originally paid for this tool. I try to keep repair cost of any unit to 75% or less than original cost, any more and tool gets replaced. We will see what happens when the time comes but I hope this repair last a while. I do like inexpensive repairs but when it can be replaced for a couple more $$s, it's time.

    Thanks for all the replies, as always, y'all are great!
     
  30. Donna Banfield

    Donna Banfield

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    I think you left out a digit. $30,000 There, I fixed it for you.
     
    Greg Norman and Rob Fridenberg like this.

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