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dancing grinder

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I finally got a grinder; I didn't really need it but thought it might be somewhat useful. I bought a Rikon 1hp slow speed grinder from craft supplies. It literally dances across the bench. I know that I still need to mount it to a platform, but the wheels are so out of balance that I don't think I can even use it. I tried the recommended fitting the wheels by spinning the washer plates in increments, to no avail. It runs like silk (Chinese made silk anyway), without the wheels. Not to mention the platforms are useless. Anyway; does anyone have any recommendations for balancing these wheels? I'm about to send this anchor back!
 
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Do the center holes in the stones have slop between them and the shaft? Theres special centering washers for that problem, mostly bought when putting cbn wheels on. If theres no slop maybe a dressing tool to grind the wheel true will work. Otherwise I would toss them and buy some quality stones to put on the machine.
 
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Do the center holes in the stones have slop between them and the shaft? Theres special centering washers for that problem, mostly bought when putting cbn wheels on. If theres no slop maybe a dressing tool to grind the wheel true will work. Otherwise I would toss them and buy some quality stones to put on the machine.

yes, there is slop in the bushings of both wheels. There is a metal bushing inside each wheel that is very poorly fit to the shaft.
 

hockenbery

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Two things that will get rid of the wobble

1. get the side of the wheel parallel to the rotation
2 True the circumference of the wheel into a circle rotating about the shaft.

1. to align the face of the wheel.
Follow Don Geiger’s instructions
https://www.woodworkersjournal.com/tuning-up-a-bench-grinder/

What you are doing is putting shims at the edge of the washer to push the wheel into alignment. Only need to do this when you change wheels.

dressing the wheel. Don Geiger sells a great wheel dresser, ONEWAY sells one.

The tee diamond dressers work great but you need to develop skills to make them great.

SKill number 1 adjust the rest so that the center of the diamond face touches the wheel. If the wheel touches the top or bottom edge of the dresser the metal behind the diamond gets ground away.

skill number 2 don’t let the dresser bounce over the untrue surface. Easiest approach is to hold the dresser face at 45 degrees to the wheel and push lightly on the corner of the wheel. This will true the corner. Now about 10 repeated passes for the true corner across the face. Each pass change the angle a little and move from the smoothie to the rough. Each pass extends the true area and puts it close to square with the side of the wheel.
The last pass gets it true with no bounce. Don’t push hard on the wheel let the tool do the work.
 
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I have 2 of the 1 hp Rikon grinders, purchased maybe 2 years apart. The first one, the wheels were so out of balance that I wouldn't have given them to some one I didn't like. Very cheap plastic bushings, which added to the problem. They had about 1/8 inch (+/- 1/16 inch) of side ways wobble in them. The second one I got, if I didn't have CBN wheels, the wheels that came with it were far more true, and it would have been possible to have trued them up.

You can true your wheels with one of the T wheel dressers. You need a good platform. Then, you ease the dresser into the wheel just until you can feel it contacting the wheel, but with very light pressure. What you are attempting to do is nibble off the high spots. Wheels generally need dressing on both sides and the face. I true up the sides first, and then move to the face. With the first set of wheels on my first grinder, they were so bad, it would not have been worth the effort. With the second set, i could have done it. You could save yourself the work of ever having to do that again by buying CBN wheels. I consider them to be like variable speed on lathes. Once you try them, you never go back...

Spin your wheels by hand to see just how bad they are. If your grinder is dancing around on your bench, some thing is way off....

robo hippy
 
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I fought my 1/2 hp Rikon for three days basically using Hockenbery's method. The main problem I had is there is no way to hold the shaft from turning when loosening or tightening the nut. Something always moved making it near impossible to adjust the washers with any repeatability.
There was at least 1/8" side to side wobble in both wheels.

I also contacted Rikon and they agreed to send new wheels and washers. However the fine wheel was on B/O so I got the coarse one and the washers. When they finally sent the B/O'd wheel it was also the coarse one.

I'd had enough so I ordered CBN wheels along with the self-aligning washers from WoodTurners Wonders before the replacement wheels arrived. So glad I did.

I think WoodTurners Wonders has an option to order the grinder without all the stuff you are going to take off anyway and throw in a drawer.
 
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As far as having the nuts on the grinder actually being tight, it is not a good idea. While it doesn't hurt the CBN wheels which have metal bushings or fittings, on the old matrix type wheels, if it was possible to really tighten them down, you can crack the wheel, which, of course you would discover when you turn on the grinder. This is one of the things that makes the CBN wheels so much safer than standard grinding wheels. Also if you were able to really tighten them down, you would need a spindle lock to get them off. If you have them on for years, they can get kind of stuck on. I have had to put a wood wedge under the wheel some times to get them off. I think it is possible that the fine metal dust can work its way down into the threads between nut and shaft...

robo hippy
 
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All of the aluminum oxide style wheels are cast. To remove from the mold, the center bore is cast with angular draft. So very little of the bore actually contacts the shaft. All stock wheels from wherever you get them are like that. Norton wheels are better quality, but can require tuning. Just a fact of life. $220 for a grinder is dead cheap still. Buy a Baldor if you want better quality. But that will cost you $850. https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tool...WGrrtzqC1e4Juwopg-U9jGATV59s7DzRoC7lAQAvD_BwE
 

hockenbery

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Thanks Al, have read this before and then lost the link
Don Geiger article should be compulsory reading for all new turners, Is it in the Tips and Hints section of this forum?
Don is one of our local treasures. We live about 2 hours apart. In non-COVID times I get to see him every other month or so He is an expert on sharpening and a fine turner too.
I don’t think this article is in the tips section.
 
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All of the aluminum oxide style wheels are cast. To remove from the mold, the center bore is cast with angular draft. So very little of the bore actually contacts the shaft. All stock wheels from wherever you get them are like that. Norton wheels are better quality, but can require tuning. Just a fact of life. $220 for a grinder is dead cheap still. Buy a Baldor if you want better quality. But that will cost you $850. https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tool...WGrrtzqC1e4Juwopg-U9jGATV59s7DzRoC7lAQAvD_BwE

I was going to applaud this particular Baldor recommendation because if the great price. But alas, it is a 3600rpm machine, hence the price. The slow speed 8" Baldor will have you in the 4-digit price range. The slow speed 7" I own will have you somewhere in the $800 range, but it's not sold at Acme.
 
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Don is one of our local treasures. We live about 2 hours apart. In non-COVID times I get to see him every other month or so He is an expert on sharpening and a fine turner too.
I don’t think this article is in the tips section.

I see you are from Lakeland Fl. went there once on my way to Auburndale Fl to see Fred Bear and family who hosted my sister who was an exchange student there in the '70 , nice bit of countryside.
 

Roger Wiegand

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I was going to applaud this particular Baldor recommendation because if the great price. But alas, it is a 3600rpm machine, hence the price. The slow speed 8" Baldor will have you in the 4-digit price range. The slow speed 7" I own will have you somewhere in the $800 range, but it's not sold at Acme.

With modern HSS tools there's no reason not to use a 3450 or 3600 rpm grinder. That's a holdover from the days of concern about overheating carbon steel tools.
 
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How tight you get your wheels is (1) dependent upon the manufacturer or, failing that, (2) ANSI B7.1 states that the mounting nut must be tightened just enough to prevent the wheel from slipping during use.

I have a Baldor and I use this.
 
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I did find a 'bargain' price on a Baldor grinder once. Turned out that the price didn't include shipping, which made it comparable to what I could buy it for if I ordered it through a local source. If you can swing by one of those stores and pick it up, it would be worth the savings. My 2 Baldors are by far my favorite grinders... I remember when the Pro Edge first came out and I just didn't like the look of it. I guess the biggest pro/con arguments would be if a flat bevel compared to a concave one really makes any real difference...

robo hippy
 
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I'm still thinking the proedge with a ceramic belt does a better job on my gouges

The Proedge is around $500 to $600 so would that compare in cost to a Rikon 1hp grinder with CBN wheels. Makes me wonder how the grind with decent CBN compares to the Proedge grind. Mind if I ask how long your belts last, and what made you want to try the grinder?
 
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The Proedge is around $500 to $600 so would that compare in cost to a Rikon 1hp grinder with CBN wheels. Makes me wonder how the grind with decent CBN compares to the Proedge grind. Mind if I ask how long your belts last, and what made you want to try the grinder?

I was looking something to sharpen my hollowing bits and saw several videos of folks using a grinder with the white wheels to do it rather quickly. However, I found a pretty simple solution to use my pro-edge and do the same thing with a 220 belt.
I only use ceramic belts, so I've yet to wear one out. I use the 120 for sharpening.
I only paid 455 for my pro-edge, including the jigs for turning tools. It goes on sale every now and then; plus craft supplies gives pretty good points for buying from them.
The "bad day at the factory", Rikon, is going back this week. I'll keep my eyes open for a used baldor.
 
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$800? Wow. The price has gone up!
I bought the same Baldor 7" slow speed 25-30 years ago, IIRC for less than $500. The only thing I don't like about it is that 7" wheels aren't as easy to find as 6" or 8".
 
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It seems to be human nature to buy on price when participating in a new activity. When you become more knowledgeable in that activity you buy on quality. At least that's been my experience. The Rikon grinder and its low quality wheels are a perfect example.

I bet the Rikon people are laughing all the way to the bank. They're getting away with selling junk. Then we have this video telling how to fix the wheel problem making people think shimming wheels is the norm. It's far from the norm and is considered a bad practice in the abrasives industry (Norton's literature for instance mentions the faces of the flange washers should be flat and burr free and clean of any paper debris left from a previous wheel's paper washer).
 
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