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Convenience of Head-Top vs Fanny-Pack PAPR

Dave Landers

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I'm going to (finally) buy a PAPR, and am trying to weigh a head-top unit vs a "fanny-pack". Today, I'm between the Powercap and the Cleanair from Peke.

I've read most of the other reviews here, etc. I don't have any questions about specific units or specs or any of that. I know the fanny-pack units will generally have better performance with respect to ratings and etc. That's not my question.

My main concern is based on "know thyself": doesn't matter how good the unit is if I won't wear it consistently. It needs to be convenient enough (initially) that I will develop a habit of using it. This is a serious consideration for me, and one that's hard to evaluate without a "test drive" (which just isn't going to happen).

On the positive side for the head-top unit is that putting it on is basically the same as putting on my face shield. That habit is reasonably well developed for me, so not a big change.

For the fanny-pack models, are there any convenience-related positives or negatives?
Seems like it would takes two hands to buckle it, so what do you do with the helmet while putting it on?
Anyone find the hose getting in the way?
Does it interfere with wearing a smock? Has to go on the outside, I expect, so can't use the smock's back pockets?

Anything else to consider (in the habit-formation department)?
 
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I was in the same position 6 months ago. After talking extensively with the owner of Peke I decided on the CleanAir. I’m very happy with it, and have developed the habit of always putting it on before I start the lathe.

The unit sits in a cabinet by my shop door. If I’m going to work on the lathe I first put on my smock, then my qc30 earbuds (recent purchase that I’ve also come to love), followed by the CleanAir face guard (leave hinged up for air, although doesn’t really matter) and then pull the filter/motor from it’s shoulder-high shelf and turn it on and then buckle it around my waist.

Without the earbuds the CleanAir is pretty quiet and I can carry on a normal conversation with my wife while wearing the CleanAir. The earbuds do a great job of blocking dust collector noise etc and I get to listen to music...but I can’t hear my wife if she wants me; sometimes good :), but I’m thinking about putting a mirror up so I know if she comes in the shop.

Also the CleanAir pivots up easily allowing me to take a drink without taking it off.

I haven’t had any problem with the hose, but do bump the unit on other tools in my shop if I don’t think about it because my shop is crowded and it hangs 4-5” off my backside, not a big deal but I try to keep that in mind.

Good luck with your decision, and congratulations on deciding to take care of your lungs !
 
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I've been a Trend Airshield Pro user for 7+ years. I got the Sundstrom SR-500 unit a couple weeks ago, and have about 8 hours with 3 different turning sessions. Ingrained on the helmet type PAPR...yep that's me. I am extremely happy going to the waist worn unit with the hose going up the back to the helmet. How I do it, is put the helmet on with the faceshield flipped up with one hand, and then use two hands to put the filtration unit around my waist, and inserting the clips into the buckle. Takes about 10 seconds. The superior filtration quality and the comfort level are worth the cost. I can't see the hesitation about whether one would use a fanny pack style vs. a strictly helmet style, but that may just be me.....

However, I offer this caveat...I have no experience with the units you mention, so their particular issues may be different from the SR-500 with the 570 helmet. Good luck with your choice.
 
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Ron, can you tell me if the polycarbonate screen of your CleanAir is identical to the one used on the Uvex/Honeywell Bionic shield?
I have that one and will go for a CleanAir system if I can use my spare screens from the Bionic.
TIA, Lars
 
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I have the 3M Airstream with the filter and fan in the helmet and the battery on a cord in my back smock pocket. Surprising and disappointing is that I realize I'm not wearing it as often as I should, and have decided it's because it makes my neck and upper back sore after a couple hours. The Trend is supposed to do that, not the Airstream. Then I made a video of me turning a bowl for my videographer nephew and discovered that when I'm turning, my head is roughly horizontal from my shoulders. With a 10 pound weight hanging out in space (2# helmet, 8# solid bone head), no wonder I get sore.

Before deciding you might have someone take a picture of you turning. If you have bad ergonomics like me, put everything possible on your waist.

There are prior threads on the forum that address holding up the waist pack and issues with gas emanations from yesterday's bean burrito.

Now where did I put the adjustable feet for this stupid lathe....
 
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Lars, looking at the headgear for the CleanAir I think it actually is a Uvex Bionics with some added things. Since I don’t have a Bionics I can’t verify that but am waiting for Jason Ramey to update on another thread as he has a Bionics and just ordered a CleanAir. I’m hoping that’s the case as I’ve already put an $8 replacement polycarbonate shield in my Amazon cart for a spare...
 

Dave Landers

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The unit sits in a cabinet by my shop door. If I’m going to work on the lathe I first put on my smock, then my qc30 earbuds (recent purchase that I’ve also come to love), followed by the CleanAir face guard (leave hinged up for air, although doesn’t really matter) and then pull the filter/motor from it’s shoulder-high shelf and turn it on and then buckle it around my waist.

How I do it, is put the helmet on with the faceshield flipped up with one hand, and then use two hands to put the filtration unit around my waist, and inserting the clips into the buckle.

Thanks. And "duh!" - put the headgear on your head first. That's just the sort of thing I was looking for.

I can't see the hesitation about whether one would use a fanny pack style vs. a strictly helmet style, but that may just be me.....

Yeah, maybe I'm over-self-analyzing things. But if I'm going to spend 5 to 10 gouges on something, I gotta get some entertainment out of it :)
 
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I have owned the previous version of the Trend Airshield - that was the current one as of 2 years ago. TOO top-heavy design. I own t of the JSP Powercaps. love them for what they are. I use them at the bandsaw and tables, even tho I have good dust collection on both machines.But when turning and sanding - I only use my RPB Safety helmet/waist pack PAPR. It is the most comfortable and balance of any I tried. The RPB unit is in the same price range as the Sundstrom, and 3M units. Really a matter of what you like in terms of features. The "chin light" on my RPB is incredibly bright and aimed wherever I look - it lights up the path. And - if I want to use my RPB for welding - a quick swap of the face shield is all I need. Stuff like that. If you have a Fastenal near you - they sell them.
 
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There are prior threads on the forum that address holding up the waist pack and issues with gas emanations from yesterday's bean burrito.

Thanks i always wondered if bad gas would cause issues with the ones mounted around the waist. You would think they would have come out with a carbon pad to add to the filter by now.
 

Dave Landers

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Yeah, while watching the symposium this summer, by myself :) , I had a bunch of bananas on my head to evaluate if the PowerCap weight for hours would bother me :)
Ha! I walked around the shop yesterday with my chainsaw helmet on, after taping a bag of bolts to the inside, to meet about the weight of the Trend. The Powercap is about the weight of that helmet by itself.

I didn't use it too much, because the chip-screen is not an impact face shield... and the big walnut bowl made me nervous. But I did discover that my posture at the lathe is maybe not conducive to head-weight. I can wear that helmet all day in the field without noticing it, but looking down at the lathe didn't feel great. Part of it could have been that I was thinking about it, you never know.
 

Roger Wiegand

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I've used the very old Airstream AirMate 3 unit with the fanny pack and yellow hard hat helmet for decades. I can't imagine wanting more weight on my head. I'd get another fanny pack unit without giving it a second thought.

On mine the hose easily plugs in and out of the helmet, so I put the fanny pack on first, then smock, then the helmet, then plug the hose in. I would love to have a better buckle than is on mine, I'd really hope they picked up a better design in 40 years. Of course if it bothered me enough to do something about it I'd have long since gotten a better belt. Might just do that now that I'm thinking about it.

I like to keep my hone and a burnisher in the back pockets of my smock. the belt seals those pockets if it's over the smock, so that's an irritation. I've not yet resolved it. Pulling the smock out so it's on top of the blower in the back kind of works.

Once it's on I've never had the hose get in the way of anything. The blower on this old model is big and boxy, so I do hit things with it from time to time when away from the lathe. Newer ones I've seen protrude much less.

I bought this unit used at least 25 years ago, it was 5-10 years old when I got it. I can still get all the spare parts I need for it, just recently got more Tyvek chin seals and a new spare face shield. There aren't many other products in my shop that have that kind of support. I'd go with the industry standard again any time, despite the high initial cost.
 
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I have the old 3M Airmate 3 (formerly Racal) yellow hat with belt mounted fan and filter. I don't think I would want more weight on my head, or the fan noise there. The belt unit occasionally bumps into something, but rarely, and I don't seem to snag the hose. I like the fact that it provides some protection for my entire head rather than just my face.

I put it on a waist height surface like my tablesaw, back up to it and fasten the belt clip. Reverse to take it off.

As Roger says, parts are available, though expensive. I have found some deals on Ebay but it's nice to know that 3M and Airware America still support the unit.
 
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My Sundstrom fanny pack sits on the outfeed table with the helmut next to it. I back up to the fanny pack, grab the two straps and fasten it to my waist. Next I reach to my left pick up the helmut and put it on. Reverse order to remove.

Remember to turn on the fans before you pull the visor down. Without airflow there's about 1 1/2 good breaths in there.
 

Tom Gall

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I have the old 3M Airmate 3 (formerly Racal) yellow hat with belt mounted fan and filter. I don't think I would want more weight on my head, or the fan noise there. The belt unit occasionally bumps into something, but rarely, and I don't seem to snag the hose. I like the fact that it provides some protection for my entire head rather than just my face.

I put it on a waist height surface like my tablesaw, back up to it and fasten the belt clip. Reverse to take it off.
I have the same unit....haven't used it in a while though. I always disconnect the hose from the helmet - strap on the the filter pack on my waist - grab the hose and connect it to the helmet. As I recall there is an "L" shaped locking connector on the helmet.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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@Bill Boehme and I have a 3M Vest that holds the Breathe Easy unit and the battery. The fanny pack was cumbersome. I bought a brand new :Racal: or Airstream. It took me just a few weeks to decide it was too top heavy and sold it. We paid pennies on the dollar for our 3M Versaflow.
 
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I have had the Trend Airshield Pro for many years. The first day I wore it I knew I had worn it but since that first day I have never had a problem. The first system I bought had the hose and fanny pack thing and I detested it from day 1 and it never saw day 3.
 
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As my picture shows I have a vest and use a Breathe Easy turbo unit with a Versaflo face shield. The Breathe Easy turbo and vest were new surplus and the face shield was new. To me its is kind of a PITA to put it on, but I really don’t mind it after it is on. I could make it a fanny pack system, but I believe that would be more trouble putting on. As Roger said, it really depends on the system how easy/comfortable a system is.
 
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Faced with the same purchasing decision, i wanted to protect both my face and lungs. With a back condition, I also did not need any additional weight from the batteries or fanny pack. I found this additional weight reduced my lathe time during the course of a day.
Inspired by @Emiliano Achaval 's post a while back, I also found a used Versaflo 300 Helmet. I added a custom remote supplied air system in place of the filtration, fan and batteries. This removed the weight, the fan noise and the reduced the over all cost. Im not a first responder so I compromised on the unrestricted mobility that a belted battery pack and fan provide. In my shop, the lathe, tools and workbench and grinders all within my reach. The supply hose is suspended from the ceiling. My solution may not work for many of you but Its perfect for my situation.
 
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Thanks i always wondered if bad gas would cause issues with the ones mounted around the waist. You would think they would have come out with a carbon pad to add to the filter by now.

Dont know about some of the other mfrs, but for the 3M Versaflow I have, I have both the particulate filter and the organic vapor filter for spraying. Gas is no problem with the organic filter.

I would not want a heavy helmet. Thats why I chose a belted system. I also wanted the organic vapor filtration for spraying - should be included in someone’s evaluation of systems.

As for remembering to use the system - that’s different for each person. I usually don't forget but sometimes work without it. When I start sneezing a realize I’ve been at the lathe longer than I thought. There have been times I have made a cut or 2 and realized I didnt have a face shield on and needed it. You cant wear the 3M helmet without the blower - the lower seal works well and will have you remembering to put the belt on.

The helmet is comfortable, no problem wearing it, or the belt all day. At times I need to do something across the shop. I turn the blower off and flip the shield up. I then proceed to bump the flipped up helmet into things. The battery pack bumps into things sometimes as well. The hose is no issue. Sometimes I turn the unit on, grab a tool, lathe on, flip the shield down, ready to make a cut, and its too stuffy - forgot to connect the hose. The bumping is worth it vs a all in the helmet style from my perspective.

I dont know how the 3M compares to some of the newer systems capability vs $ as they were not around a few years ago when I put mine together. For me organic vapor filtration was a must as I do a lot of finishing with nasty voc’s. I wear mine when cutting wet wood - its the only faceshield I keep near the lathe and the blower is needed with the shield.
 
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Dave, I’ve been using the PowerCap for about 3 years. Does what it says. IMHO I like that it’s light weight and easy to put on, etc. One down side - the face seal lining does deteriorate. I’ve ordered new ones and hope they are designed better.
 

odie

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I have had the Trend Airshield Pro for many years. The first day I wore it I knew I had worn it but since that first day I have never had a problem. The first system I bought had the hose and fanny pack thing and I detested it from day 1 and it never saw day 3.

I agree with Bill Blasic.......no more belt for me......easy on and off would be my priority.
Image057.JPG
I've had the 3M/Airware America Airstream for 30 years now. It's a good unit, but I don't wear it much anymore. Several years ago, I purchased a new motor, batteries, and smart charger. Runs like new. If I were in the market for a new powered respirator, I think I'd go with the Trend Airshield because of the convenience factor. I hated taking off helmet and belt over and over again during a turning session.
Respo-b_150x@2x.jpg

I now use the resp-o-rator mostly. It filters the air as well as any of the powered units. I think it's no longer being manufactured. I guess too many people hated scuba diving! I guess I can't blame them, but using it seems very normal to me now. At first, I had the one major problem everyone seemed to have with drooling. I don't have that problem anymore, and I can't explain why.......I guess your body adapts in mysterious ways! One thing about it, though......you just can't beat the resp-o-rator for convenience. Not only does it fit perfectly under the Uvex Bionic shield, it's also really lightweight, and pops on and off in about 2 seconds.

-----odie-----
 

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I agree with Bill Blasic.......no more belt for me......easy on and off would be my priority.
View attachment 36352
I've had the 3M/Airware America Airstream for 30 years now. It's a good unit, but I don't wear it much anymore. Several years ago, I purchased a new motor, batteries, and smart charger. Runs like new. If I were in the market for a new powered respirator, I think I'd go with the Trend Airshield because of the convenience factor. I hated taking off helmet and belt over and over again during a turning session.

I now use the resp-o-rator mostly. It filters the air as well as any of the powered units. I think it's no longer being manufactured. I guess too many people hated scuba diving! I guess I can't blame them, but using it seems very normal to me now. At first, I had the one major problem everyone seemed to have with drooling. I don't have that problem anymore, and I can't explain why.......I guess your body adapts in mysterious ways! One thing about it, though......you just can't beat the resp-o-rator for convenience. Not only does it fit perfectly under the Uvex Bionic shield, it's also really lightweight, and pops on and off in about 2 seconds.

-----odie-----

Fwiw, Woodworker.com says the Resp-o-raptor should be back in stock around 2/24/2021.
 
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@Bill Boehme and I have a 3M Vest that holds the Breathe Easy unit and the battery. The fanny pack was cumbersome. I bought a brand new :Racal: or Airstream. It took me just a few weeks to decide it was too top heavy and sold it. We paid pennies on the dollar for our 3M Versaflow.

Do you know the model for the vest? I can find suspenders and a back pack, but haven't been able to find the 3M Vest.
 
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I use the Resp-O-Rator when sanding. Jim Duxbury the inventor of the Resp-O-Rator got some good news about the parts needed to get it back in supply. So hopefully it will be available soon.
 
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If AW hasn't yet done a side-by-side comparison of these units, they should. Sounds like we've all got loads of questions about them and they're too expensive to buy just to try out. I've got a Trend helmet that cost a bundle but turned out to be completely unworkable for me. Too heavy, and the faceplate always mashed my nose. I'm interested in the belt or vest-pack systems but don't want to have to spend days combing the online sites for information.
 

Mark Hepburn

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If AW hasn't yet done a side-by-side comparison of these units, they should. Sounds like we've all got loads of questions about them and they're too expensive to buy just to try out. I've got a Trend helmet that cost a bundle but turned out to be completely unworkable for me. Too heavy, and the faceplate always mashed my nose. I'm interested in the belt or vest-pack systems but don't want to have to spend days combing the online sites for information.

That's a good idea. I'd like to see one of those myself. I've had a Trend Airshield for about 5 years and like it, but the PowerCap appeals to me. If I recall correctly, it was first the Axminster Evolution. I tried to get one but nobody in the UK would ship it. As far as I can recall from the specs, it's lighter. And looks like it will balance a little bit better than the Airshield.
 

Mark Hepburn

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I have only a little experience from a long time ago with the fanny pack style of devices (for confined space entry drills), but I didn't much care for them. I like the self-contained units. I will say that the Airshield batteries are a bit of a hassle to swap in and out, and if you get one you might want to get a couple extra batteries. And an extra charger. I think that when I got mine the charger base was extra. But that depends on how long you're in the shop and so you may not need that anyway.
 
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I’m with Bill and Mark - the Trend unit has been working very well for me for several years. - its only used while sanding and the weight hasn’t been a problem. Did the battery rebuild myself about 6 years ago, no problems since, but if they do go south, Batteries Plus will rebuild them resonably.
 
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I wonder if a lightweight fisherman's vest could be modified for this purpose? The ones I am thinking of are similar this one in that they have a large "creel pocket" on the back:
If you're going that direction, a bird hunting vest would also have a large back pocket, and not so many little bitty pockets up front in the shaving stream. They come in regular, mesh, and 'strap' which are basically just pockets on shoulder straps. You can get a basic model for $30.
shopping
upload_2020-12-15_19-34-7.jpeg
 
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I used to work in small-scale pharmaceutical manufacturing and a PAPR was required. We had soft Haz-mat suit type head coverings and the battery and filter were belt mounted. This kept the weight off your head and also usually placed the filter just above your posterior, which helped keep the filter away from most of the powder encountered. There were occasionally issues if you had a large lunch of Mexican food, since this put the fan intake in a dangerous location for other "fumes".
 

odie

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I use the Resp-O-Rator when sanding. Jim Duxbury the inventor of the Resp-O-Rator got some good news about the parts needed to get it back in supply. So hopefully it will be available soon.

I ordered a replacement resp-o-rator this afternoon. The direct price is $60, which includes the shipping. This new unit has the N95 filters.

-----odie-----
 
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I used to work in small-scale pharmaceutical manufacturing and a PAPR was required. We had soft Haz-mat suit type head coverings and the battery and filter were belt mounted. This kept the weight off your head and also usually placed the filter just above your posterior, which helped keep the filter away from most of the powder encountered. There were occasionally issues if you had a large lunch of Mexican food, since this put the fan intake in a dangerous location for other "fumes".

My wife applauded this "design feature" on my PAPR - as it gave her a feeling of revenge for all of the years she has endured been married to me....:D
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Do you know the model for the vest? I can find suspenders and a back pack, but haven't been able to find the 3M Vest.
Found mine on Ebay. I believe it was made for the "Breathe Easy" system. A quick Google search gave me some results. I'll attach a screen shot.
 

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odie

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Didn’t the original have HEPA filters? Seems like a step down to use N95 filters.

Hi William.......I have replacement HEPA filters on hand.
Here are a couple statements from Jim Duxbury:

Back Orders
We wish we could help you. We have hundreds and hundreds of Resp-O-Rators and replacement filters on back order.
Right now all the filter media is being used by the medical industry. They use the N-95 media, 95% efficient, and that is all that is being made. Day and night.
We use the N-100 media, which is the best and harder to make. We have not been able to get N-100 filter media since the first of March. As of October first it looks like it is a ways off before they will be making our filter media again.
Wish we had better news --- we will have Resp-O-Rators someday.
These are troubled times,
Sincerely,
James N. Duxbury"

The body of our device is the exact Resp-O-Rator however we have temporarily substituted a cartridge with replaceable N-95 equivalent disk media. Our regular N-100 equivalent filters will be available and included on our Resp-O-Rator as soon as the filter media becomes available. As we had previously explained, the filter media has been reserved for Covid-19 medical health professionals only. These filters all use the same socket design and are interchangeable.

Please Note
Temporary Substitution
Due to Covoid-19 Virus our HEPA
filter discs, 99.97 % at 0.3 microns are
not available.
Filters are cartridges with replaceable
disc media 95% at 0.3 microns
for nuisance type particulate not
containing oil.

-----odie-----
 
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