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Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by Jim Selby, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. Jim Selby

    Jim Selby

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    Location (City & State):
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    Went to the doctor today with swelling around the eye and inflammation of the eye. Talked with her about what had caused it and figured it started when I was working on my board on board fence made out of cedar. I know that turning walnut has an effect on my throat so I wear a respirator and full face shield a turning jacket. I guess that I have to add another wood that causes a reaction when I work with it. Right now I am doing flat work with black mesquite and started wearing nitrile gloves and trying to remember to not wipe my face with any sanding dust on my hands.It is bad when your favorite hobby causes you health problems. I have found that using ca for finish really bothers my eyes and throat, have mad sure lately that I use forced air to dissipate the fumes.
    Becareful out there and have a Merry Christmas.
     
    Emiliano Achaval and Paul Lajoie like this.
  2. Dan Stromberg

    Dan Stromberg

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    Yup. A lot of dangers lurking around every corner. Thanks for sharing -- be safe.
     
  3. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Cedar and mahogany bother me.
    Not severely but I get stuffed up when I turn it and I don’t turn I for a long time.

    respirator and fans probably keep it at bay.
     
  4. Mark Wollschlager

    Mark Wollschlager

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    Silky Oak, which looks a lot like Lacewood ruined a christmas season for me.
    I turned a pen blank into a finial.
    I was wearing a respirator and long sleeves, but I did not wear barrier cream on my hands.
    Like poison ivy, but it came on more quickly. Avoid.
    It looks pretty, but not worth the effort.
    The barrier cream I use is called pr 88. Goes on moist and drys quickly. It washes off with water.
    It protects from oils and sap, finishes and alcohol dyes and CA glue.
    Kind of hard to find in stores but is available on line. A little goes a long way.
    They also have a pr 99 which is water proof, but it wears off after several hours.
     
    Emiliano Achaval and Tim Connell like this.
  5. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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  6. Tim Connell

    Tim Connell

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    Mark, thanks for mentioning the barrier cream, never heard of it before. Got some in my cart for my next order. Lots of places I'll be using this besides turning.
     
  7. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Location (City & State):
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    We never know how we are going to be affected by wood or adhesives. It is not uncommon to be neutral to a substance and Poof! We have a reaction to it. I was never sensitive to bee stings but reacted about 16 years ago. Tests showed white face hornet (which might have caused the reaction) and wasps (never reacted with them when a kid). Took shots for a while and then Poof! 2-1/2 years ago, reacted to the shots, passed out and totaled my new car.
     
  8. Mark Corkern

    Mark Corkern

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    Location (City & State):
    Franklinton, LA
    Spanish Cedar for me, looking at the list, I feel lucky to be alive.
     
  9. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

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    Jim,

    Contact Mark Sillay about getting some Parfix (3408) (edit: wrongly listed 3406 which has a quicker set time) Thin CA Glue which doesn't have issues with fumes like many other CA glues. It's the best CA Glue I've ever used for not burning my eyes.

    http://www.marksillay.com/index.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
    Tim Tucker likes this.
  10. Dave Bunge

    Dave Bunge

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    Starbond also sells an odorless CA glue. I've had good luck with it. I've never used the Parfix 3406 so can't say how they compare.

    It's called N/O Starbond Infiltrant Odorless Thin CA Glue. Link here: https://www.starbond.com/catalog/pr...hin-ca-glue-3d-infiltrant-no-05/category/164/
     
  11. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

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    Correction. Actually Prefer Parfix 3408 has a 40 Second open time (vice 12 seconds for 3406).

    Dave,
    Starbond seems to jump from a 2oz size ($13.50) to 16oz size ($85.00). In my opinion, the Parfix 3408 comes in a more convenient 8oz bottle and competes on a $/oz basis with a Starbond 16oz bottle. Parson Adhesives only sales CA glue by the case which is why I suggest contacting Mark Sillay since he's willing to break open a case for us.

    -Karl
     
  12. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    The 16 oz bottles are actually for refilling the 2 oz bottles. If you buy a 16 oz bottle, you get several 2 oz empty bottles.
     
    Tim Tucker likes this.
  13. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

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    About 6 months ago I bought a partially used 8oz bottle of PARFIX 3408 from a friend that was sitting in his shop for a couple of years, and to my surprise it was still good to use. I'm just about done with the bottle now so this particular type of CA glue doesn't need to be transferred to smaller bottles to keep it fresh. Nothing against Starbond though, but if you don't need the extra bottles then the Starbond does cost a little more per oz. Also, 16oz bottle might be too large for some people.

    Btw, I only mention Mark Sillay because the individual PARFIX bottles are hard to find, and I susect he isn't making a profit on the individual 8oz bottles (currently $35) after seeing the case price from Parson Adhesives. Just giving out another good option.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  14. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I believe that there is a misunderstanding about the longevity of Starbond in the 16 oz container vs the 2 oz container. My experience based on more than ten years using Starbond CA is that it has a longer shelf life in the large container than it does in the small containers. I generally fill the small bottles as needed.

    The shelf life is greatly extended if refrigerated. I have had some CA in the garage fridge that was more than six years old and still good. I can't say how long the 2 oz bottles last in the fridge because they get used up before going bad. I occasionally buy black and brown Starbond in 2 oz bottles and have found that they have a shorter shelf life in the fridge than the regular CA in 2 oz bottles. The black is good for a year or so before it starts getting thick. The brown CA lasts a couple years before it begins to get thick.

    I learned the hard way not to store CA in a hot garage.
     
    Gerald Lawrence likes this.
  15. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

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    Thanks Bill. I learned something new about larger bottles lasting longer than smaller bottles.

    Btw, do you know what the open time (time before glue sets up) is for the odorless Starbond N/O-05 glues? Starbond's website (https://www.starbond.com/odorless-thin-ca-glue-3d-infiltrant-no-05.html) says it's instant cure. A long open time is important when applying the CA glue to large turnings so there's enough time to wipe it on, let it soak in below the surface, and then wipe off excess like Mark demonstrates. For comparison the Parfix 3408 has a 40 second open time so if Starbond N/O-05 is similar then it's nice having another choice available (just in case it goes on sale).
     
  16. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    My only experience is with the regular CA glue. The open time for the thin varies considerably depending on the moisture in the wood. For dry wood I usually use the accelerator because it might otherwise take several minutes to cure.
     
  17. Dave Bunge

    Dave Bunge

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    I use the odorless Starbond N/O-05 occasionally. The open time seems pretty similar to other thin CA glues I've used, maybe a bit longer, but not much.

    The pen makers I know use "normal cure rate" thin CA glue for finishing. I think the N/O-05 would work fine for them. But I'm not sure how well it would work for finishing larger surfaces like Mark Sillay shows in his YouTube videos. It might cure too fast.

    Starbond redid their website and pricing a couple of years ago. I haven't seen them offer any sales since. But they do have free shipping for all order sizes for what that's worth.

    Dave
     
  18. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

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    I'm unable to find a YouTube video showing how Starbond N/O-05 works. It'd be nice if someone with the Starbond N/)-05 could make a comparison to Mark's video below?

     
  19. Karl Loeblein

    Karl Loeblein

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    Jim,

    Here's what my research turned up so far regarding with low odor and low bloom CA glues which help to eliminate the need for ventilation (low odor) and reduce frosted residues (low bloom). These glues are made with 'Alkoxy - Ethyl', and made/sold by several companies like Parsons Adhesives, Starbond, Infinity Bond,Bob Smith Industries to name a few.

    Here are two other important characteristics to consider when purchasing low odor glues:
    1. Open Time - tells how quick the CA glue wants to set up. A longer open time give you more time to apply the glue to a larger area. An accelerant can be used to speed up drying time, but it's normally not needed.
    2. Viscosity measured in CPS (centipoise) - tells if CA glue is wicking grade, thin, medium, or thick.
    For example, below are a few low odor glues from Starbond & Parson Adhesives to consider:
    • Starbond N/O-05 Infiltrant - Wicking grade (5 CPS). (Company email said Instant Set under 30 seconds).
    • PARFIX 3408 - Wicking grade (5 CPS). Set Delay 40 sec.
    • PARFIX 3460 - Thin/Medium (45 CPS). Set Delay 50 sec.
    • PARFIX 3403 - Medium/Thick (1,000 CPS). Set Delay 40 sec.
    Side note: Two common CA accelerants to help speed up drying use either Acetone or Heptane as carriers. It's my understanding the acetone based accelerants are more likely to cause blooming and bubbling issues (possibly because acetone also dissolves CA glue). Thus, I recently purchased Heptane based spray from Mark since it wasn't anymore expensive than the acetone varieties that I've been using.

    Lastly, watch out for companies that greatly mark up the price on low odor varieties. I suspect companies are counting on the willingness of people with CA sensitivities or in the cosmetic industry to pay a lot more for the low odor varieties. I say this because the low odor CA glues from Parfix and Starbond are reasonably priced per ounce especially at larger bottle sizes.
     
  20. Tim Tucker

    Tim Tucker

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    Refrigeration is good.....but if you have a freezer nearby - put your CA in the freezer. It will not alter the viscosity when at freezer temperatures - and it will remain useable longer. I know this sounds particularly "geeky"...but I have run this experiment for 11 years now. Same bottle of CA in my freezer - remove and use as needed..( usually cut repair...:D ) and put it back. The one I put in the fridge at the same time lasted for about 6 years if I remember correctly....
     
    Bill Boehme likes this.

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