I have a Rikon slow speed grinder and plan on getting CBN wheels for it. Have been debating whether to get the Wolverine Jig system or the Kodiak. Is Kodiak worth the extra money? Any other systems I should consider?
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Choice of sharpening systems
- Thread starter Don Armour
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I have the Wolverine system including the Vari Grind 1 on my Rikon 1hp slow speed grinder with 80 and 350 grit CBN wheels. Buying CBN again, I'd go with 180 and the 350. I replaced the Wolverine flat tool rest with on by Stuart Battey as I liked his better. So far so good, though I'm always on the lookout for better options.
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I would guess that 99% of all woodturners have the Wolverine fixture and the original Varigrind jig. I don't like the Varigrind 2 jig because it restricts the range of grinds that you can put on a bowl gouge. From the looks of the Kodiak system, the bowl gouge jig appears to function much the same as the Varigrind 2. The cost of the Kodiak system seems to be excessive. I prefer the bar locking mechanism on the Wolverine ... and, the locking levers can be configured to operate in the opposite direction if you wish.
A couple of other options:
1) Tru- Grind by Woodcut
2) Penn State Ind (PSI)
All 3 systems work similarly, but cant tell you about any detail differences, other than Lyle Jaimeson prefers the Trugrind jig over the varigrind because of the metal “flap” that contacts the just sharpened edge when the tool is pulled out. I use a different approach - I had a grizzly wet sharpener before I started turning, so I bought Tormek jigs to use with it. Great for resharpening, useless for shaping. I use an 8” bench grinder with Tormek tool bar, and a platform on the other side, for shaping. Only sharpen gouges on the Grizz, other tools done with the bench grinder. Starting from scratch a dry grinder and jigs is the way to go.
1) Tru- Grind by Woodcut
2) Penn State Ind (PSI)
All 3 systems work similarly, but cant tell you about any detail differences, other than Lyle Jaimeson prefers the Trugrind jig over the varigrind because of the metal “flap” that contacts the just sharpened edge when the tool is pulled out. I use a different approach - I had a grizzly wet sharpener before I started turning, so I bought Tormek jigs to use with it. Great for resharpening, useless for shaping. I use an 8” bench grinder with Tormek tool bar, and a platform on the other side, for shaping. Only sharpen gouges on the Grizz, other tools done with the bench grinder. Starting from scratch a dry grinder and jigs is the way to go.
My first sharpening system was the Sharp Fast system, which appears to be the same design as the Kodiak. I had a hard time maintaining the shape and evenness of the cutting edge on my gouges. I switched to the Wolverine with Vari grind 1 and immediately found it easier to get consistent and controllable results.
I have a mixture of Wolverine-esque systems (Ron Brown and Kodiak with a Oneway Varigrind 1), and on top of that I have Tormek jigs and Vector. Except for the Tormek they are all pretty interchangeable, so feel free to mix and match.
The motivation for me to buy the Kodiak base (by itself) was that the the 1 HP Rikon was a drop in fit, no fuss. Arguably a government approach to the problem (throw money at it). The Kodiak has swing up tabs meant to engage slots on their v arm and thus set the nose angle. I dont use these as I set the nose angle differently and I don't have the Kodiak v arm.
The motivation for me to buy the Kodiak base (by itself) was that the the 1 HP Rikon was a drop in fit, no fuss. Arguably a government approach to the problem (throw money at it). The Kodiak has swing up tabs meant to engage slots on their v arm and thus set the nose angle. I dont use these as I set the nose angle differently and I don't have the Kodiak v arm.
Agree with Bill, I have both varigrand 1 and varigrind 2 for Wolverine system and prefer varigrand 1. Also, I have had a home made system, a pen state system and the Wolverine and much prefer the Wolverine. All systems worked, but Wolverine has better finish and seems to be better made. There is also a relatively new system sold by Ken Rizzo( wood and wonders), but it only works for grinders with CBN wheels.
I've had my Wolverine system for four years now and have no complaints at all. I have a Rikon slow speed grinder and CBN wheels and I think all three components make for a good sharping set up. 
I have the Wolverine and VG2. Pleased with the setup.
Well, I do all of my sharpening on a platform rather than the jigs. Bill's comment about the Wolverine set up above, is no exaggeration, at least as near as I can tell. It has been around for a long time... For CBN wheels, if you get one, get the 180 grit. It will do 90% of the sharpening you will need and use, and the rest can be honed to a good edge. If you get 2, then I would suggest getting the 600 grit. Makes for an excellent edge for fine finishing cuts.
I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube, mostly geared to bowl turning, but it includes sharpening.
robo hippy
I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube, mostly geared to bowl turning, but it includes sharpening.
robo hippy
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
The Kodiak is an excellent system. It was designed specifically for CBN wheels to get the most advantage from.them. it makes grinds very repeatable so you grind away less metal. It is definitely worth the extra money.
I was not familiar with the Kodiak system prior to this thread. The gouge jig works the same as the Tormek gouge jig, though the arm only has 2 positions vs 6 for the Tormek.
Thanks Tom FYI I believe the system that Ken makes is the Kodiak system.
Thanks Robo - have seen a few of your u tube videos and have learned a lot.
ALL - thanks for the replies so far. Still machinating, which is unlike me. Please keep your thoughts coming.
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I hope that Lyle now knows that is ancient history. When I bought my Varigrind jig seventeen years ago it had the little spring steel flap that everybody hated. A few years later there was an aftermarket mod that did away with the annoying steel flap. I bought the kit to upgrade my Varigrind and loved the improvement. The upgrade proved to be so popular that Oneway adopted the improved design a couple of years later.
My vari-grind still has the little steel flap. Had to hold it up removing the tool otherwise you would drag you nice sharpened edge over the flap. I used the vari-grind for years and it is a good system. However I don’t use it any more. I now use the Hannes Vector jig and like it better than the Vari-grind. I also use the Robo Rest for platform sharpening.
Roger Wiegand
Beta Tester
My only issue with the Wolverine is that most of the platforms are not flat out of the box, having a slight bulge at the weld. Readily fixed in a few minutes with a big file. Other platforms I tried were too thin and flexed while sharpening.
odie
TOTW Team
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Neither was I, and just watched the video:
I was impressed with Ken Rizza's ingenuity.
Although, I used the vari-grind one system almost exclusively for about 15 years, I've abandoned that, and gone back to methods I learned back in the early 90's, the traditional grind using the V-arm for gouges. I only use the Wolverine platform, v-arm, and occasionally the skew jig attached to the v-arm. It's a very simple system, and I can produce a variety of gouge grinds that are (in my opinion) superior to anything done on a vari-grind one and similar. I'm still using Norton premium SG wheels, and I just don't see any need to change, even though they have fallen out of favor with the "woke" turners. Even with changing diameters, setup is done as quickly as any other gadget can do.......I match the current grind perfectly every time. All my gouges are honed by hand, and it's done in seconds.....that is, if you know what you're doing! Did you know you can re-hone a dozen times before going back to the grinder? That really does speed up your sharpening process, not having to go back to the grinder.....and, your tools last longer, to boot! (I can re-hone and be back at the lathe in less than 30 seconds!)
All this skips the plethora of gadgets woodturners are subjected to these days! It's hard not to be sucked into all that, when you're just learning how to turn.....then, you're stuck with a means of sharpening without ever knowing what turners knew a hundred years ago. I know, because I've been there and done that.......just like the rest of the current newbies going through that phase of learning. I've got a drawer full of gadgets and special tools that never lived up to their promise. Too bad, because (IMO) turners just starting out are victims of the great amount of gadgets they are subjected to......and, it all costs you money that is unnecessarily spent.....not to mention the time you've wasted by skipping the kind effort that brings the kind of knowledge your Great Grandpa knew!
It's not about buying that perfect jig, or learning that perfect grind........it's about simple concepts combined with time in the saddle, my friends!
-----odie-----
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Prior to Covid I was mentoring and teaching turning at the woodshop on Fairchild Air Force Base. They ordered two Kodiak systems for their Rikon grinders (w/cbn wheels). I was not a fan of the system, probably because I've been using the Wolverine system for several years and more use to that. The shop manager at Fairchild, after about a month, replaced the Kodiak with the Wolverine. I think the Kodiak is a slick setup and allows for quick setup changes but also felt it wasn't as versatile as Wolverine. Its only my experience and again, possibly biased because I am just used to the Wolverine.
I never looked at Ken's set up, at least not closely. Interesting set up. The robo rest could go onto it as well, but it would need a notch in the square tubing. Have to ponder this set up for a bit.
Ken does comment that a flat grind on the skew makes it less likely to catch. Don't think I agree with that one though...
I do need some of his slick stick stuff to see what it does to the CBN wheels.
robo hippy
Ken does comment that a flat grind on the skew makes it less likely to catch. Don't think I agree with that one though...
I do need some of his slick stick stuff to see what it does to the CBN wheels.
robo hippy
I'm very new to turning and this has been a question I've been wondering and researching too. Thanks for everyone sharing their systems and techniques. I started out with a 6 inch grinder with an upgraded platform and a work sharp 3000. I've been following this thread and a couple of days ago I found a great deal on a Wood Turners Wonders system on CL. I now have a Rikon slow speed 1 HP grinder with 2 of the 8 inch CBN 4 in 1 wheels, 2 of the Oneway base clamps, a V-Arm, a Robo Rest and a Vari-Grind 1 tool holder. I've been watching just about every YT video on sharpening and different grinds and platform sharpening (thanks Reed!). Now to go practice and learn how to use these tools. I like the jigs but I feel like the platform grinding techniques are going to be a huge part of my routine. I also am practicing honing between sharpening at the grinder (Thanks Odie!).
I got the whole set up for less than $400 so I just had to jump on it and it seems like a great decision so far.
Al in Texas
I got the whole set up for less than $400 so I just had to jump on it and it seems like a great decision so far.
Al in Texas
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That system should serve you very well. IMHO the progress we make in sharpening is key to the progress we make in turning.
There are many different recommended systems and several DVDs on how to set up the system and use it. The only one that is so confusing as to be a hindrance is the Oneway DVD. Otherwise, my recommendation is to pick one and follow it. Any one. And only one. Once you're comfortably getting the results you want by one method, you can experiment, but shopping around or trying to blend different methods when you're learning will only slow you down. At least that's my experience.
Bill, Have you tried using the VG2 with the v arm pocket instead of the VG2 base that limits the right to left movement?
Like many of you, I have a Wolverine sharpening system and an 8 inch slow speed grinder with CBN wheels. I am very satisfied with this setup. That said, a sharpening system needs to be used frequently to 'reap the benefit'. By this I mean that your sharpening system needs to be set up near the lathe and have your most-used sharpening attachments in place so that you can just turn around or take a few steps and put a finishing grind on your tools when you are turning. If you make it too much of a chore to sharpen, you probably will find yourself putting off the sharpening with the result that you will frequently be fighting the cuts because the tools are not sharp enough. I have my sharpening setup right behind where I work on the lathe so that I can just turn around and put a very quick finishing edge on the tool I am using whenever I need it.
Thanks again to all.
Brian -thank for confirming my set up . My grinder will be just to the left of my headstock so just a step away
Dean - that really helps. "Pick one and stick with it." I used the same philosophy when I chose my lathe. In addition since I am getting started later in life i dont have a whole lifetime to try different things.
Am going with the Kodiak. Yes - more money. But i like that its all there and appears easy to learn. Just wish i were as lucky as Al
Brian -thank for confirming my set up . My grinder will be just to the left of my headstock so just a step away
Dean - that really helps. "Pick one and stick with it." I used the same philosophy when I chose my lathe. In addition since I am getting started later in life i dont have a whole lifetime to try different things.
Am going with the Kodiak. Yes - more money. But i like that its all there and appears easy to learn. Just wish i were as lucky as Al
I'm in this same boat: which system to use? I orders a 1HP Rikon slow speed grinder and both 180 and 600 grit CBN wheels (mega square). I've mostly been torn between the Wolverine and Tru-Grind systems. Being brand new to woodturning I want both long term versatility and ease of use - and that means that there is a lot of information out there I can learn from. This is why the Wolverine + Varigrind 1 is how I've been leaning so far.
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a possible consideration.
The woulverine is just about everywhere I have been for the past 15 years or so.
If you plan on taking classes or doing demos you can carry your varigrind and reproduce your grind.
Few people plan on doing demos but if you get good at turning you will get invited to do demos.
I use the Ellsworth jig. I carry a little wooden block cut to fit the pocket of the Wolverine. I set the pocket position and I can get my Ellsworth grind on my gouges.
The woulverine is just about everywhere I have been for the past 15 years or so.
If you plan on taking classes or doing demos you can carry your varigrind and reproduce your grind.
Few people plan on doing demos but if you get good at turning you will get invited to do demos.
I use the Ellsworth jig. I carry a little wooden block cut to fit the pocket of the Wolverine. I set the pocket position and I can get my Ellsworth grind on my gouges.
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at first I thought you had somehow photographed mine.
Then I saw yours was nicely finished no glue showing - mine is much more rustic.
Mine is Purple Heart and hard maple. It is at least 22 years old and still working.
below i put it in the Geiger vertical solution- an add on to the woulverine that has a vertically adjustable pocket.
I use the vertical solution at home but carry the elegant block for demos etc.
It just goes to show.... great minds think alike (or is that like minds think they are great....)
That jig looks great. I'm going to have to research the angles so I can figure out the dimensions to make one for my set up.
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It’s pretty straight forward.
The pivot point for the Ellsworth jig is supposed to be 7” from the front of the wheel and 4” below the center of the wheel. The top of your block needs to be 4” below the center of your wheel.
Thanks Hockenbery!
The Kodiak system now uses a tightening knob for the arms instead of a handle / cam system. I found this to be a nice improvement. I have both Kodiak and Wolverine systems and find that the cam system will slightly move the arm and affect the grind angle if you're not careful. I also had issues on both with the cams wearing out or worse still, coming loose during sharpening and totally throwing off the grind angle. When I went from Wolverine to Kodiak I initially thought it was less versatile due to just 3 slotted positions but you can put the arms pretty much wherever you like for what every angle you like. I've made spacers to enable quickly duplicating those particular angles. Not a big deal but I also prefer the much shorter arms on the Kodiak than the Wolverine. Those long arms always seemed to be in the way. I'd be jazzed if I had the talent to simply hand sharpen and am inspired by those who can. I'm not at it daily, so when I am, I'd rather spend my time turning than sharpening. I want a system that will help me to quickly keep my tools sharp, duplicate the grinds I've finally figure out work for me, and take off as little material as possible on the more pricey tools I've moved to. I think it's good to explore different methods, but in the long run probably best to stick to one method and learn it. I switched to the Kodiak because I became very frustrated that regardless of settings or gouges, I always seemed to get asymmetric shapes on my gouges. I went to the Kodiak thinking that would be the cure. Well, guess what, it didn't. It was only after I got a better light and really paid attention, I discovered I was not rolling to both sides equally. I learned the hard way that the jigs and attachments of either system do not ultimately dictate the shape of the grind - they are only an aid and it's up to the operator to create the shapes desired.
I guess I can compare the platform sharpening to any turning that we do. Never very good to start, but we get better the more we do it. I don't think my grinds are symmetrical ever..... true, even when I used jigs. They still work fine though.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Allen-I too got something similar to this set-up, though I have an old Baldor 1/4hp, 1750 rpm grinder set up for 6-inch wheels. I too thought about getting the super-fine 500 CBN wheel to supplement my 180, but decided finally to get the 1.5" wide 80-grit for more ease of rough-shaping and getting a great burr edge (which now makes me wish I had the wide 180-grit CBN wheel instead of a narrower one, as the tool keeps wanting to slide off).
In any case, I have had great, repeatable results replicating the Lyle Jamieson swept-back grind just using the Wolverine and Vari-Grind jig following their written instructions to put the leg in the 5th slot down. Set the depth with my 2-inch walnut depth block, true it to the wheel with an even stripe through the marker, and grind away. I still wouldn't mind a 600-grit CBN wheel, though, especially for skews and such. I've got a number of grinder motors from when I bought out the shop of a deceased knifemaker for my youngest son, so it shouldn't be too hard to set up a 2nd one. But that said, I do a lot of hand-honing with the 600-grit diamond slip-stone and even Arkansas slip-stones sometimes.
I have quite a bit of experience on the various belts and wheels from restoring, rescaling and honing straight razors, so this tool grinding has actually been enjoyable and not too hard to learn as I was worried it would be. I guess that's what the jigs are for, though you still need a steady hand and a close eye, obviously.
A 2nd grinder is going to be a must at some point...
I really like the mega square wheels from Woodturners Wonders. I have a 220 and 600. I broke down and bought an Ellsworth jig and made a riser block to get the correct height/distance for that grind. It's given me consistent results. Now I can reserve the Varigrind 2 jig for spindle gouges, mostly.
What I still really need is a consistent way to set up the grinder platform. I get by by just matching tools to angle, but maybe the SB Angle Gauge(s)?I'd rather have a Robo-Rest
I'd also like to have a low grit wheel or two for tool shaping & making. The 220 works but does take time.
I really like the mega square wheels from Woodturners Wonders. I have a 220 and 600. I broke down and bought an Ellsworth jig and made a riser block to get the correct height/distance for that grind. It's given me consistent results. Now I can reserve the Varigrind 2 jig for spindle gouges, mostly.
What I still really need is a consistent way to set up the grinder platform. I get by by just matching tools to angle, but maybe the SB Angle Gauge(s)?I'd rather have a Robo-Rest
I'd also like to have a low grit wheel or two for tool shaping & making. The 220 works but does take time.
Yeah, I got their mega-square in 80-grit. I won't be buying anymore skinny wheels. There's always something to buy!
What I still really need is a consistent way to set up the grinder platform. I get by by just matching tools to angle, but maybe the SB Angle Gauge(s)?I'd rather have a Robo-Rest
Yes a Robo Rest would be nice. I see a few for sale on ebay time to time. Another possible source for an angle finder is Ron Brown’s Best. I made my own from ~1/8” plexi sheet from Lowes. Use a General Tools steel protractor to measure the tool bevel angle, and keep adj the platform till you get the desired angle. Use the grind wheel to cut the arc into a sized piece of plexi. Use a rotary cutter to relieve the arc, leaving proud areas at each end of the arc, mark the angle on the plexi. 1 piece can have a different angle at each end. Be aware regardless of what angle setter used, the measured bevel on the tool will vary with tool thickness, a degree or 2. Its fine, as the objective is repeatability not 0.1 degree accuracy. I can post a pic if needed.