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CBN Wheels.

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Oct 8, 2017
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Binghamton, NY
I am planning to go to CBN wheels for my sharpening. I have a slow speed Rikon 8 in grinder. I recently read an article in the June issue of the "American Woodturner" by Tom Wirsing about steels and grinders. He recommends, for a one grinder set up, using a 180 and 600 grit CBN, steel, electroplated wheels. The 180 grit wheels are readily available, but I have not been able to find a 600 grit wheel. Craft Supplies has the Raptor series in 180 and 320. I am getting quite a bit of torn end grain, and hoping that sharper tools will help.Should I keep looking for a 600, or will the 320 do the job. Can anyone shed some light on this for me.
 
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I am planning to go to CBN wheels for my sharpening. I have a slow speed Rikon 8 in grinder. I recently read an article in the June issue of the "American Woodturner" by Tom Wirsing about steels and grinders. He recommends, for a one grinder set up, using a 180 and 600 grit CBN, steel, electroplated wheels. The 180 grit wheels are readily available, but I have not been able to find a 600 grit wheel. Craft Supplies has the Raptor series in 180 and 320. I am getting quite a bit of torn end grain, and hoping that sharper tools will help.Should I keep looking for a 600, or will the 320 do the job. Can anyone shed some light on this for me.
Hello Samuel, I just recently switched to CBN wheels for sharpening. I also have the Rikon 8" slow speed grinder. After a lot of research I decided on 180 and 300 grit. I couldn't be happier. I guaranty you will love CBN wheels.
 

john lucas

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I've been using a 180 for several years now and just changed to a 350. I like it. 600 would be good for an experienced turner who has good sharpening skills. I think it might be a little fine for newer turners so you have to decide what you think your skills are. for new turners I think 80 and 180 would be a good choice. I purchased the last one from Ken Rizza at woodturnerswonders. He is a good guy and gets things to you quickly although he is heading to the AAW symposium right now and orders might take a little longer.
 
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I have one square edge180 that i have had for several years. I did just buy a new radius edge one from Ken. My original 180 seem much finer due to use then the new one. Has anyone ever determined how much these wheels change over time? I have both on my grinder and put a white wheel on if I am re-shaping.
 

john lucas

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They do change after the initial break in period but tend to stay at that second lever for a long time. I recently ground a carbide tool in half to be able to photograph the cutting edge and greatly changed how my older 180 sharpened. It still worked even after that abuse but probably cuts closer to 350. The new 350 is not broken in yet and cuts about as fast as the older 180. I expect it to cut cleaner and not as fast in the next 6 months.
 
Joined
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For wheels, one suggestion I make is to get the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. I have never run off the edge of them with my gouges, even when I still used gouge jigs, which was a long time ago.

Another, for grits, if you only get one, then get the 180 grit. When they first came out, it was pretty much 80 and 180 grits, but that has changed a lot over the last few years. The 180 grit will do fine for about 80% of what you will ever turn. It also leaves a healthy burr for heavy roughing cuts with scrapers, and a nice burr for shear scraping. I have never played with a 300 to 400 grit wheel. I do have a 600 and 1000 grit wheel. The edge from the 600 grit wheel is excellent for fine finish cuts, but doesn't hold up well for heavy roughing cuts. This differs from Tom Wirsing's article. He is in the school of thought that the fine teeth from a 600 grit wheel wear longer than the coarser teeth. If I have to reshape a tool, as in rough shaping, I use a 36 grit belt sander, then take it to the 80 grit wheel to refine it a bit, then don't go back to the 80 grit at all.

I have all of my CBN wheels on 2 Baldor grinders, and one of the 1 hp Rikon grinders. The 1/2 hp Rikon seems to be able to handle the lighter aluminum wheels from Ken Rizza, but struggle under the load of the steel wheels from D Way. I do prefer things more heavy duty than needed. I really don't know if there is any real difference in the quality of the wheels.

How long do they last??? Well, Glenn Lucas, an Irish production turner, who turns more bowls in a year than I used to do in 3 years, and he does a lot of classes too, he 'finds good homes' for his wheels after a year. I had one set for 8 or so years and retired them. They left a more polished surface than my 600 or 1000 grit wheels. Not quite ready to retire the current set of wheels, at least for another year or three... They break in to a point and then seem to stay there for a long time. It is one of those 'it depends' answers.

robo hippy
 
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I've been using a 180 for several years now and just changed to a 350. I like it. 600 would be good for an experienced turner who has good sharpening skills. I think it might be a little fine for newer turners so you have to decide what you think your skills are. for new turners I think 80 and 180 would be a good choice. I purchased the last one from Ken Rizza at woodturnerswonders. He is a good guy and gets things to you quickly although he is heading to the AAW symposium right now and orders might take a little longer.
John I couldn't agree more. I also bought my wheels from Ken and I got an email from him to see if I was satisfied with the wheels. Great merchant to do business with.
 

Bill Boehme

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I have had some of the plating flake off my aluminum wheel after about a year of use. Of course, the difference in my case is that I am using on a Tormek where very heavy pressure is being applied at 90 RPM compared to the feather light pressure at 1750 RPM. Based on that very limited experience I am thinking that a steel wheel might be more durable.
 
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This is a really good time for this thread for me. I'm just building a rolling sharping station with a Rikon 1 hp grinder. I ordered an 80 grit and a 180 grit set of CBN wheels. Do you need any kind of spacer or bushing on the arbor to mount them ? Thanks for any help or suggestions.
 
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With the 1 hp Rikon, first thing I did was take the lamp off. Worthless.... Next, took the rubber feet off because I wanted it bolted firmly to a wood base. I had to grind 1/16 inch off of 2 of the feet (1/8 inch total) to get it to sit flat on the plywood. The wheel cover on the left side was fine, other then the flange for the screws. I think I have a short spacer there so the wheel would not rub on the flanges. On the right side, I had to rotate the wheel cover about 5 to 10 minutes clockwise as I face that wheel from the end. Mostly just reamed out the bolt holes. This allowed me to slide my robo rest up to the proper position/close enough to the wheel. I had to make about 5/8 inch thick shims to put the Wolverine bases on to get them up to height, compared to having to put the shims under the grinders, which was normal. With my Baldor grinders, I had to get a bushing machined to space the wheel out about 5/8 inch away from the grinder. Just stacking sheet stock washers left a lot of wobble in the wheel.

robo hippy
 

Bill Boehme

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This is a really good time for this thread for me. I'm just building a rolling sharping station with a Rikon 1 hp grinder. I ordered an 80 grit and a 180 grit set of CBN wheels. Do you need any kind of spacer or bushing on the arbor to mount them ? Thanks for any help or suggestions.

It depends on who you buy them from. Some have a 1" bore and others have a ⅝" or ½" bore. Some have slightly oversized bores and can benefit from spherical washers. On some grinders the cupped washers are non-precision stamped parts, but most likely you won't need them anyway.
 
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Jun 2, 2018
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Snoqualmie, Washington
image.jpg I’d been using a tormec to sharpen a few of my blades but never really got into turning. Now that I’m trying to learn to turn and want to quickly sharpen my tools I went with the Rikon CBN wheels at 80 and 180. I got the Rikon stand for it and then built the rig to hold it up for the Wolverine system. You can see the unused OEM wheels in the storage area. Though I still haven’t figured out which grind to put on which wheel, the sharpening is super quick! Got the CBN wheels from a local WA guy called D-Way.

http://d-waytools.com/
 
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Robb,

You have a good setup for sharpening your lathe tools, using these will speed up the sharpening process and your tools will last a life time of turning as you remove very little metal each time you sharpen the tool at the same angle. A sharp tool is your turning friend, a dull tool is no fun at all.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2017
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OKC, OK
I have the Rikon slow speed and have been very frustrated by it. It seems to take forever to get up to speed. In warm weather, I only have to wait less than a minute for it to achieve operating speed. In winter's cold, it might take five minutes. I emailed Rikon customer support to see if this was normal, but they didn't seem to take a position on it. I'm not sure if this is common or not.
 
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John, the smaller Rikon is a 1/2 hp grinder. I got the 1 hp one. If you have the aluminum wheels from Ken Rizza, they will work better on the smaller Rikon. The steel hubbed ones from D Way are considerably heavier and might be too much for the smaller grinder. Taking that long to come up to speed doesn't seem right...

robo hippy
 

Bill Boehme

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I have the Rikon slow speed and have been very frustrated by it. It seems to take forever to get up to speed. In warm weather, I only have to wait less than a minute for it to achieve operating speed. In winter's cold, it might take five minutes. I emailed Rikon customer support to see if this was normal, but they didn't seem to take a position on it. I'm not sure if this is common or not.

My guess is that the start capacitor is on its way out. If the grinder is in warranty I would ask for a replacement capacitor. If it's out of warranty, replacement capacitors are pretty cheap at Grainger and McMaster-Carr. I've heard that the smaller Rikon grinder is sort of wimpy when it comes to accelerating CBN wheels up to speed, but what you describe is way beyond normal wimpy. The capacitor is located in the base of the grinder. It should have the capacitance (in microfarads) and working voltage marked on it. You will need to determine whether the capacitor is a start type or a start/run type. The easiest way to tell is if you hear a distinct click as the motor is coasting to a stop then it has a centrifugal switch and the capacitor is the start type. Some motors don't have a centrifugal switch and the capacitor remains connected while the motor is running. In that case a start/run capacitor is needed.
 
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replacement capacitors are pretty cheap at Grainger and McMaster-Carr.

Good idea on looking at the start cap. I may replace that and see what happens. (And to clarify, I've got aluminum oxide wheels on it and not the CBN wheels from the thread's topic.)
 
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Good idea on looking at the start cap. I may replace that and see what happens. (And to clarify, I've got aluminum oxide wheels on it and not the CBN wheels from the thread's topic.)
Then you definitely have a problem . I have the 1/2 horsepower with one cbn and one aluminum oxide. Comes up to speed in seconds. Albeit a little slower than when I had no cbn on it.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
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Englishtown, NJ
Allow me to join into this fine thread on fine wheels, and I'll disagree with nobody (for once <g>).

I have D-Way CBN wheels and am very happy with them. I bought my 180 grit beveled (rounded) edge from David Ellsworth's web site at a time some years ago when he and Dave Schweitzer had cooperated on the round edge wheel (for David's hollowing cutters). About a year later I bought Dave's 80 grit square edge wheel (with grit on the edge). My best guess is that I've had the 80 grit for about 3 years and the 180 a bit over 4 years. It could be longer on both, my aging mind loses track of time. I have seen no degradation in the wheels.

As to the grinders, my slow speed died about 2 years ago and I needed a new one quickly. Slow speeds cost an arm and a leg for good ones so I went to my local Loewe's and bought a Delta variable speed that was supposed to be 1800 rpm at the low end. I got nervous when I put a tach on it and found that it ran a bit above 2000 rpm with the CBN wheels on it. Turned out to be no problem, there was no significant heating from the extra speed and the face of the tool bevels is lovely. A plus came in when I realized that I could do heavy tool reshaping on the 80 grit wheel at top speed (@ 3400 rpm) without overheating.

Arbors and wheel widths were discussed. My Delta is designed for a 1" x 8" wheel with a 5/8" arbor, my D-Ways are 1 1/2" x 8" x 1" arbor. Dave provides bushings for the different arbor diameters, and also "shoulder drilled" bushings for grinders with short axles, but those are things you can make yourself if you choose to (and have the equipment).

One great advantage of the CBN wheel might be considered by some to be a disadvantage. I can finish grinding a tool, then hone it, then go to the kitchen and grab a beer, then sit back on my stool by the lathe and consider the piece I'm working on and where to cut next, and then get up and start the cut - and the grinder is still spinning down. And that even happened when I had only one wheel on the grinder (I was soaking my 80 grit as it had some buildup of junk from shaping the wrong metal).

Which leads me to the matter of questioning some opinions (I lied, but only gently - I'm questioning, not disagreeing). I've seen the paeans to the finer grits of CBN, and not only in this thread. Our good Robo Hippy has an excellent list of the grits, and has several grinders. My shop, as you can see in my avatar, is in my bedroom. My grinding station is behind my upper body, between the doorway and the tool box behind my right shoulder. Were I to offer advice on the grits I'd stick with the 180 (with rounded edge, for cutters) and the 80 for reshaping.

Let me modify that. I am a habitual honer. I love my Lacer 600 grit diamond slipstone, although it isn't cheap. I prefer a burr I raise myself with a hand burnisher. Perhaps there is an advantage to a very fine CBN wheel that leaves no burr, but I find that having jigs that exactly reproduce a bevel shape (be it using the Wolverine for a gouge or the direct angle of a skew or bedan or roughing gouge) allows one to use a light touch on the grinder for a fine edge with the 180 grit. One last thing - it helps to strop after honing (unless you want a burr) and a nice cowhide apron makes a nice strop that is always there <g>.

The CBNs are worth the price, but not all vendors make them the same way. I can vouch for D-Way, but can't fault any others as I haven't tried them. There are several ways to embed an abrasive (be it diamond or CBN) into a basic metal - and not all are equally consistent in life or consistency.

The ability to perfectly duplicate a grind because the wheel diameter (and shape) doesn't change saves a lot of tool steel as the "regrind" is really a "touch up" on the wheel. One loses some of the advantages of the CBN wheel if one doesn't use jigs that duplicate the grind. I'm a fan of my Geiger vertical solution set-up, but he doesn't sell it anymore. Most rigs allow for horizontal distance from the V socket, the GVS allows one to adjust both horizontal and vertical. BTW, no need to adjust both - but it is more convenient to have both settings.

Best, Jon
 
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From what I have read since I am interested in going CBN on my 1/2 HP Rikon, I have realized that all should have a 180 grit. Some say if one wants both they should be 80/180 and others 180/600. Hmm I am wondering if I start with just the 180 should it be rounded? Also, many suggest a 1 1/2" width. Seems like many like Ken Rizzo of WoodTurning wonders. I want to order something from somewhere. I am slightly above a novice. Any help
 

john lucas

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I'm a fan of the 180 although I just switched to 350. I have a 120 aluminum oxide on the other side for reshaping and sharpening carbon steel tools. The 180 CBN will remove steel as fast as my 120 AO.which is why I say 180 is a good all around grit. KEN is a great guy and will take care of you.
 
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I bought a 220x (1inch) wheel from Ken a few months ago and for me, I don't see a need to go lower. I've also kept the AO wheel on the other side of the grinder, although it rarely gets used. When I've saved enough, I'll probably buy a 600x to go on the other side of the grinder.

I've been turning a year and a half, and am now comfortable with the grinds I have and don't see the need to regrind anything I'm using. In the future, if I need to re-grind anything, I can always put the AO wheel back on if the CBN isn't fast enough.
 

Roger Wiegand

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After waiting decades for my Craftsman 6" grinder to die a natural death I gave up and bough the 1hp Rikon. Very happy with it so far.

I bought two of the WoodTurners Wonders mega square wheels at 180 grit, setting up one with a Robo Rest and the other with the Wolverine jig for bowl gouges. Having a finer grit might occasionally be nice but having a dedicated setup for the bowl gouge and the roborest for everything else works really well for me, saving a lot of time futzing with setups. Honing skews with a diamond plate is fast enough off the 180 wheel, for everything else that grit seems sufficient.
 
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