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Buying a vicmarc 100

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by James Humphries, May 6, 2020.

  1. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    VM or TALON?
    Where can I find a good deal on a vicmarc 100? thanks.
     
  2. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    Not sure that you will find good deals on the Vicmarc chucks other than through estate sales. I got mine from Craft Supplies USA, and the Woodworker's Emporium, who also carry the Vicmarc lathes. Lee Valley has them, I think, and probably Packard. Don't know if Woodcraft Carries them or not.

    robo hippy
     
  3. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Thank you Robo hippy, yea I only found 3 websites and was wondering if there was anyone else out there selling them.
    Do you have any opinions about which one, VM 100 or the talon for bowl turning. I'm just looking at equipment now as I am new at turning, I took some classes and now I'm ready to take the plunge. I live in Bogota Colombia so I have problem shipping. I was looking for a used 12in lathe in the USA but most are local pickup so I'm thinking of bringing over a Penn state. Over here there is not much for sale and the ones that are are old, I'm looking for a variable speed.
     
  4. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    both will serve you well.
    I like dove tail jaws for gripping bowl tenons. The dovetail jaws come standard with the vicmarc.
    Dovetail jaws are an option or an extra with the talon depending on where you buy it.

    the Talon is my favorite chuck for turning ornaments. The ONEWAY jaws grip square stock much better and more square than the dove tail jaws. I’ve used it for lots of small bowls.

    I like the hex key on the vicmarc a whole lot better than the toothed key for the talon. But that is a personal preference. Some folks like the other.

    I bought my vicmarc 120 from woodworkers emporium. They are nice folks to work with and carry an extensive line of vicmarc products. Christian often answers the phone.
    I have also bought lots of stuff from Brad Packard and Craft supplies.
    Each of those companies know woodturners and their needs.

    the vicmarc has a feature few turners use of even know its there. The back has index indents
    That you can us3 for layouts.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  5. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Not all dovetails are the same.
    The Vicmarc dove tail is 14 degrees. The ONEWAY dove tail is 7 degrees.

    I would say there’s is no effective difference between the two.
    The 7 degree is probably easier to turn but my spindle gouge is good at getting either.
    7 degrees probably a little better tenon for bowls.

    I use my vicmarc for most of my bowls.
    But either work fine. My wife prefers the ONEWAY dovetails for bowls and platters.
     
  6. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Much appreciated guys, thank yoiu.
     
  7. robo hippy

    robo hippy

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    When I got my first chuck from Craft Supplies, I told the tech that I wanted a super Nova. He told me that if I had the money, to get the Vicmarc since they were a better chuck. They are all I have used, so I really can't compare them. One friend who turned for 40 or so years said the only reason he had the Nova chucks was because a friend was selling his stuff cheap, other wise, he would have gotten the Vicmarc. All the major names are pretty good.

    Interesting about the dove tail angles. I always thought my Vics had 7 degree angles. So, I actually was able to find my brass dove tail template for hand cutting dovetail joints. One is '1 to 8' ratio, and the other is '1 to 5' ratio. No clue as to what those ratios measure out to in degrees, but my Vic jaws are right in between those measures.

    No clue to the shipping in South America. My daughter used to ship car parts, and she said pretty much anything that went to South America disappeared. Not sure if you can have friends pick things up for you or if you travel up here, it might work easier, though hard to transport a lathe on the airplane....

    robo hippy
     
  8. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Yea, i have had small packages disappear from Amazon so now I use a shipper from Miami who is very good however they only ship by air which I'm pretty sure will cost a lot, I'm waiting for a reply. So I'm checking out freight companies to go by sea but as you say things do go missing. Maybe one of the lathe companies will ship, I asked Grizzly and they said no, Penn State no, so maybe i check Jet and Laguna. I thought for the price Penn looked good but if the freight is over the top maybe the more expensive lathes will be compensated by cheaper shipping rates. If I really enjoy and stick with the turning then in a year or 2 I'm dreaming of a 20 or 24 swing.
     
  9. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I have about six Talon chucks and one Vicmarc 100 (in addition to a couple Stronghold chucks and a couple Vicmarc 120 chucks). They are all excellent chucks. For precision and repeatability I would give a slight edge to Vicmarc, but for everything else I prefer the Talon and Stronghold chucks. I think that the Oneway tapered spindle adapter is a much better design than the Vicmarc screw-in adapter. For most things that I turn I strongly prefer the Oneway premium profiled jaws over the Vicmarc dovetail jaws. Either one will last a lifetime or three if you take care of them.
     
    Tom Gall and hockenbery like this.
  10. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    So I ended up buying the Talon I found it to be around $30 cheaper than the VM100. In the instruction manual it states, "when gripping the outside of a foot the minimum diameter is 2 inches", but I see that it can be less than that, is there a reason for it? I had a catch and a 4 inch block of hard wood flew off and twice I had wood shift within the jaws, am I not tightening it enough?
     
  11. Dean Center

    Dean Center

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    Sometimes that just happens with a catch, but one common reason is that you have a less than perfect tenon.

    You need to make sure that the corner where the tenon meets the base of the piece is clean and sharp, and the bottom of the piece should be flat and square so that it can make proper contact with the face of the jaws. If the tenon is too long or there is a large nub so that the tenon bottoms out in the base of the chuck, the mounting will also be unstable, but that seems unlikely in this case. Lastly, the sides of the tenon need to be angled, or not, to match the jaws on your particular chuck.
    (yes, forum members, I know that you experienced folks may do things differently and get away with it, but the point is for a new turner to be safe and have a reliable mounting)
     
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  12. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    What @Dean Center said.

    the tenon has to have a diameter to give a good closing grip 2-2.5” works well
    Must be less than .5” long so that it dose not touch the inside bottom of the jaws.
    flat at the edge of the tenon that rests on the top of the jaws greatly reduces vibration and keeps the tenon walking out of the jaws.

    a crude picture
    7F174E40-641F-46FE-A309-1D3450149207.jpeg
     
    Bill Boehme likes this.
  13. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Yep, got all that. Thanks guys.
     
  14. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Yep got all that, well as far as I can tell, I will be more attentive next time, maybe more pressure.
     
  15. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    When I started I always checked my tenons for square with the corner of a ruler or a tri-square.
    I pay special attention to the corner. Any rounding in the corner or fuzz from a scraper will cause the tenon to push out slightly as the jaws close.
    That said a really good tenon can Lose its hold with a bad catch. Depending on the type of wood and the severity of the catch the tenon can shift in the jaws, pull out completely, crack, or break off.

    continue to double check your tenons.
    Then concentrate on avoiding catches.
    ABC Anchor, Bevel, Cut
    A tool on the tool rest, B bevel on the wood not cutting, C start the cut by moving the handle while keeping the bevel on the wood until the cut begins. The let the tool cut while guiding the depth with the handle.

    keep the flute between 2 and 3 o’clock or between 10 and 9 o’clock.
     
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  16. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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  17. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't think that more pressure is the answer. Too much pressure can crush wood fibers and make matters worse. You already have a very large mechanical advantage with the Oneway Talon chuck and using firm one-handed torque should be quite sufficient. If the instructions didn't mention it, you need to tighten the scroll at both keyholes. Then repeat just to insure that the jaws are snugged up tight.

    As others have said, a good tenon is critical. It absolutely must not bottom out in the chuck and the inside corner between the tenon and shoulder must be sharp. A lot of people say that the tenon should be straight, but I prefer to give it a very slight dovetail (just one or two degrees).

    Use tailstock support until you can't. Getting catches is a fact of technique that all beginners progress through. Practice and learning from your mistakes are the keys to catch-free turning.
     
  18. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    I didn't know that I had to tighten at both key holes, I thought that both were the same action and that it didn't matter, I didn't see it in the instructions, thanks for that.

    When gripping the outside foot it states in the manual between 2" and 3 1/2", is it better going towards larger or smaller diameter or does it matter?

    Yea I'm using the tailstock support. I got a couple of catches the other day and the tenon didn't shift, so thanks for that. I have been much more attentive to the inside corner between the tenon and shoulder.
     
  19. Timothy Allen

    Timothy Allen

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    Generally, you want the jaws to be closer to the fully closed position than the fully open position, so that there is more jaw-to-wood contact.
     
  20. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Yea thats what I thought, I saw a guy on like who said the opposite.
     
  21. Dave Landers

    Dave Landers

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    The only reason to use all the chuck key positions is just in case there's any gear lash. Goes for any chuck (my dad taught me to always use 2 or 3 of the holes on a jacobs chuck). Tightening with both holes just makes sure the pressure is evened out around all the jaws.
    In my experience, for a well-made chuck, it doesn't really matter in most cases. But if you're looking for every little improvement, it's an easy step.
     
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  22. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    depends on what you are doing.
    If you are turning a bowl for drying use a 2.5” tenon. Then the warped tenon can be trued to 2”.
    The perfect circle give the strongest grip. However any decent chuck’s standard jaws will hold a 2.5” tenon securely enough to turn a bowl unless you get a bog catch.

    I think the Jaws on my talon are bit larger than those on the Vic100.

    The vicmarc owners manual lists perfect circle for the Vic 100 standard jaws as 37mm (1.45”). Max close is 3mm less. This is the strongest grip for a those jaws. It is also a grip that does not mark hardwoods. So you can grip a small piece in a groove that diameter.
    My vic120 standard jaws have 48mm(1.89”) perfect circle close



    4FE62BB0-BA8E-42E4-A23F-A21765E91745.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  23. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    As Dave said there is some lash in the pinion/scroll plate plus there is friction. The same rule applies if you are tightening a Jacobs drill chuck ... use all the holes when tightening.
     
  24. James Humphries

    James Humphries

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    Thanks Guys, with your advice and my extra diligence I haven't had any more problems.
     

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