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Big spur drive for bowls

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Hello, I turn, among other things, large bowls having a good supply of 8-22 inch logs. So fa I have been using faceplates to rough out the first outside before coring but now I would like to try a spur drive in order to fine tuning the center of the bowl. I believe two spurs have an advantage over four for this purpose but your input is welcome.
I tried the big oneway, but I cannot center it with precision on the Vicmarc chucks I have. Besides, it is really just a big slab of iron.
I saw the big Texas drive from Best Wood Tools seem well don but is 1 1/2 inch sufficient?
Any opinions and experience out there?
Thanks.
 

Bill Boehme

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Before using a spur drive, I balance the wood using a dead center in the headstock and a live center in the tailstock. By starting off with the piece in reasonably good balance, it will greatly reduce lateral forces that want to pull the wood loose from the lathe and also reduces the need for an over-sized spur drive. I have seen the big slab of steel that you mentioned, but I don't have one. I prefer the four pronged Oneway spur drives once I have determined the balance point that I like. I usually don't trust a spur without at least drilling a shallow hole with a Forstner bit to capture the spur and the live center nose. I have started off as slow as my lathe will run to knock the corners off the wood and turn a tenon for the chuck. I have used faceplates mostly because they will hold till the cows come home, but I recently got a set of #4 dovetail jaws for my Stronghold and a Vicmarc 120 with 195 mm dovetail jaws. Either of those chucks will hold all but the heaviest pieces of wood. If I were going to turn a really tall vase then I might consider going back to a faceplate. Right now, I am turning a 17 inch tall canopic jar and the stronghold is doing just fine. The log was about 60 pounds and fairly crooked in the beginning, but by balancing it, I didn't have any problems doing most of the rough shaping between centers before turning a tenon.
 

Bill Boehme

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Before using a spur drive, I balance the wood using a dead center in the headstock and a live center in the tailstock. By starting off with the piece in reasonably good balance, it will greatly reduce lateral forces that want to pull the wood loose from the lathe and also reduces the need for an over-sized spur drive. I have seen the big slab of steel that you mentioned, but I don't have one. I prefer the four pronged Oneway spur drives once I have determined the balance point that I like. I usually don't trust a spur without at least drilling a shallow hole with a Forstner bit to capture the spur and the live center nose. I have started off as slow as my lathe will run to knock the corners off the wood and turn a tenon for the chuck. I have used faceplates mostly because they will hold till the cows come home, but I recently got a set of #4 dovetail jaws for my Stronghold and a Vicmarc 120 with 195 mm dovetail jaws. Either of those chucks will hold all but the heaviest pieces of wood. If I were going to turn a really tall vase then I might consider going back to a faceplate. Right now, I am turning a 17 inch tall canopic jar and the stronghold is doing just fine. The log was about 60 pounds and fairly crooked in the beginning, but by balancing it, I didn't have any problems doing most of the rough shaping between centers before turning a tenon.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but my problem is not holding a piece. I have four Vicmarc chucks with all he jaws except the 7 inch and if the tenon and you do not over tighten the chuck, the holding is perfect. By the way, with the exception of the first I got the other three have a direct thread, no insert. Much, much better.
I need to be able to fine tune the center to center in order to achieve a good symmetry of the piece. For this neither the chuck, not the face plate are very good. If one turns the first rough out in between centesr it is then possible to move only the tailstock point and keep turning on a more pleasing axis.
 
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1.5" sounds a bit small for work much over 12" diameter.

Stubby tools has (or at least had) a drive that was 2". It was convertible in that could be either a two spur or 4 spur center.

I prefer 2 spurs for most cross grain work.

Al Stirt did a demo for our club and showed a large drive spur that was easy to make.

I hopefully have attached Al's instructions. If not, do a search for Al Stirt and look his site over.

I made several of the drives from Al's instructions and modified it by grinding the bolts to resemble spurs instead of points.

I have a metal lathe and eventually made one about 2.5" from metal and use it for just about every cross grain item.
 

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hockenbery

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I use a 4 prong 1" spur drive for bowls and hollow forms up to about 16" diameter I have a 2" spur drive I use for pieces 16- 22" and I don't do pieces that big often.

The al Stirt drive allows you manipulate the grain on one axis and is a really nice method to quickly mount bowls.
A bowl lined up in the end grain tends to look balanced.

On hollow forms and bowls I want to balance the grain end-grain to end-grain And Side grain to side grain.
With the two axis rotation of the blank I much prefer the spur center to the two prong drives.
For natural edge bowls this is an absolute must for me as I want to control the relative heights of the rim high spots and low spots.
I also like to control the sapwood on hollow forms.

When I first mount a large blank I balance it for weight. One side is going to be heavy and fall to the bottom. I shift the tail center toward that edge until the blank does not drop rapidly when I let go of it. It is never perfect but there is a point where it is close to balance weight wise. As the blank is roughed to round I will shift the center to align the grain.

Al
 
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Hi Sergio,

I went through the same thing not too long ago. I wanted a spur drive for turning large bowls and was worried about having enough of a bite on a big piece to safely and reliably turn it. I ended up with an axminster #3MT that's 1.5" in diameter and I've turned a handful of large pecan pieces (20 x 4 platters and 16 x 6 bowls) without any slipping. I also looked at the Texas drive, but ended up not going that route many due to the cost. Just my opinion.
 
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Take a look at the Oneway 'Big Bite'. I use mine a great deal for initial work on large and irregular blanks. Almost anyone I know who has used one feels there is no better value for money.
 

Mark Hepburn

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Sergio,

For what it's worth, here's my .02.

I just came back this morning from David Ellsworth's class this weekend. He has a huge spur drive that he put on one of his (very nice) Robust lathes for me because I kept tearing out the wood using the spur drive that was attached.

This one - photo below - is from Stubby Lathes, it's $100, and it has a 1 1/4" x 8tpi thread so it screws on rather than using a Morse taper. I can tell you it made all the difference. We were roughing bowls at the max swing of the lathe (in my case about 16" across by 8" thick).

Hope this helps.

DriveCenter_s.jpg

By the way, the class was indescribably valuable to a new turner like me. Highly enjoyable, informative, and David and Wendy are very nice people too.
 

Bill Boehme

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Hello, I turn, among other things, large bowls having a good supply of 8-22 inch logs. So fa I have been using faceplates to rough out the first outside before coring but now I would like to try a spur drive in order to fine tuning the center of the bowl. I believe two spurs have an advantage over four for this purpose but your input is welcome.
I tried the big oneway, but I cannot center it with precision on the Vicmarc chucks I have. Besides, it is really just a big slab of iron.
I saw the big Texas drive from Best Wood Tools seem well don but is 1 1/2 inch sufficient?
Any opinions and experience out there?
Thanks.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but my problem is not holding a piece. I have four Vicmarc chucks with all he jaws except the 7 inch and if the tenon and you do not over tighten the chuck, the holding is perfect. By the way, with the exception of the first I got the other three have a direct thread, no insert. Much, much better.
I need to be able to fine tune the center to center in order to achieve a good symmetry of the piece. For this neither the chuck, not the face plate are very good. If one turns the first rough out in between centers it is then possible to move only the tailstock point and keep turning on a more pleasing axis.

I have seen the Best Wood Tools spur drive and it is really good. I don't know much about the Oneway flat piece of steel, but I am wondering if you could slightly loosen the chuck jaws and then tap the piece of metal one way or the other to make a small adjustment in its position so that the wood is oriented more to your liking. It sounds like you are more interested in getting a certain orientation than you are in getting a perfect balance.

Is this closer to what you were asking about?
 
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Take a look at the Oneway 'Big Bite'. I use mine a great deal for initial work on large and irregular blanks. Almost anyone I know who has used one feels there is no better value for money.

That is the big chunk of iron I was referring in my first post. It gets centered only on Oneway chucks. Mine are Vicmarc. Thanks.
 
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I have seen the Best Wood Tools spur drive and it is really good. I don't know much about the Oneway flat piece of steel, but I am wondering if you could slightly loosen the chuck jaws and then tap the piece of metal one way or the other to make a small adjustment in its position so that the wood is oriented more to your liking. It sounds like you are more interested in getting a certain orientation than you are in getting a perfect balance.

Is this closer to what you were asking about?

Yes, I want to orient the grain in a symmetrical way. The oneway big steak is good only for oneway chucks. In other it cannot be centered. I have one and is as crude as a piece of iron can be.
 

hockenbery

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Sergio, For what it's worth, here's my .02. I just came back this morning from David Ellsworth's class this weekend. He has a huge spur drive that he put on one of his (very nice) Robust lathes for me because I kept tearing out the wood using the spur drive that was attached. This one - photo below - is from Stubby Lathes, it's $100, and it has a 1 1/4" x 8tpi thread so it screws on rather than using a Morse taper. I can tell you it made all the difference. We were roughing bowls at the max swing of the lathe (in my case about 16" across by 8" thick). Hope this helps. <img src="http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7465"/> By the way, the class was indescribably valuable to a new turner like me. Highly enjoyable, informative, and David and Wendy are very nice people too.

David is fantastic.

I should have mentioned that you must tighten the tailstock as you turn between centers.
The spur and tail center work their way deeper into the wood during the roughing.
So tightening the tailstock every few cuts in the beginning an less often later on soon becomes second nature.

If you don't tighten the tailstock the spur drive gets a little loose and becomes a 4 bladed spade drill bit.

You also need to sharpen the blades on the spur drive.

Al
 

hockenbery

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Yes, I want to orient the grain in a symmetrical way. The oneway big steak is good only for oneway chucks. In other it cannot be centered. I have one and is as crude as a piece of iron can be.

Start with a 1" spur drive. Learn orienting the grain with small pieces 10 -12" in diameter
Keep the tightening the tailstock

Use a spur that has 1/2 long sharp teeth. Set it with a mallet with the teeth 45 degrees to the grain so they bite evenly.
Avoid the cheap spurs that have teeth barely a 1/4" long

You can do a 20" diameter piece on a 1" spur.
I would rather have a 2" for a big block.

Al
 

Mark Hepburn

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David is fantastic.

I should have mentioned that you must tighten the tailstock as you turn between centers.
The spur and tail center work their way deeper into the wood during the roughing.
So tightening the tailstock every few cuts in the beginning an less often later on soon becomes second nature.

If you don't tighten the tailstock the spur drive gets a little loose and becomes a 4 bladed spade drill bit.

You also need to sharpen the blades on the spur drive.

Al

Hi Al.

Yes, I finally learned the hard way :D David took pity on me and came around once in a while, tightened the tailstock, made a little joke and I finally got it to be 2nd nature. Mostly. :D
 
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Thank all. I was well aware of the 2 inch Stubby drive but being aluminum i was afraid it could not keep up with the stress given that the spindle is hardened steel.
I do tighten the quill often like I do tighten the chuck on the tenon or on the inset mainly when using greenwood. Common sense I should say. But don't over tighten it, another common mistake.
Thank you all.
 
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Bill Boehme

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Sergio, it looks like you might be forced to buy a Stronghold chuck. There are very few situations where the Oneway four blade spur drive won't work (it also fits in Vicmarc chucks). The two problem situations would be setting the spurs in extremely hard wood like cocobolo or very soft wet wood where the problem is that the spur becomes an auger.
 
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Oneway "Big Bite"

That is the big chunk of iron I was referring in my first post. It gets centered only on Oneway chucks. Mine are Vicmarc. Thanks.


Sergio -- FYI

A club member recently made me a nice gift of the Oneway Big Bite, but I have Vicmarc chucks too. And, as you mentioned, it did not quite fit the center hole of my Vicmarc VM100 (small) chuck. Darn! I mentioned to a few club members the incompatibility issue with a Vicmarc chuck and was promptly referred to "Ken" in our club, who is an accomplished metal guy as well as a great woodturner. Ken, happy to help, measured the slight oversize difference on the Big Bite with his micrometer, took it back to his shop and machined ever so little for a perfect fit. The Big Bite now centers perfectly in the Vicmarc VM 100. I can also use the Oneway Big Bite on my larger Vicmarc VM 120 (large) chuck by centering it first with the tail stock center before tightening it into the chuck. Just another example of the many benefits of belonging to an AAW chapter club, where there are many more "smarter" heads close at hand that will generously help you solve what seems to be a "no-go" problem. I now like using the Oneway Big Bite for starting out on really large, heavy bowl blanks.

Lee Tourtelotte
Minnesota Woodturners Association
www.mnwoodturners.com
 

john lucas

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Question. Why does the big bite have to center? If it grabs the wood isn't that all that's necessary. After all you might just shift the wood after turning a few minutes so it wouldn't matter if there is a center spur on the bit, or if it's centered in the chuck for that matter. I use a 3 point drive center that I built using a 1 1/4 inch nut. Drilled 3 holes and then turned 3 pins to fit the holes and sharpened the pins. I think I made the pins a little too long. If I do it again I'll consider making them screw adjustable for height.
 

hockenbery

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Thank all. I was well aware of the 2 inch Stubby drive but being aluminum i was afraid it could not keep up with the stress given that the spindle is hardened steel. I do tighten the quill often like I do tighten the chuck on the tenon or on the inset mainly when using greenwood. Common sense I should say. But don't over tighten it, another common mistake. Thank you all.

You need to tighten the tailstock often when turning between centers.
I turn a lot of green wood.
Generally I never have to tighten a chuck grip on a tenon there isn't any force that causes the tenon to move in the chuck.
I never have to tighten screws in a faceplate

Between centers I tighten the tailstock often at first and then less often during the roughing process. The drive centers will work themselves deeper into the wood and become a little loose. Once this happens the spur can become a drill and the spur rotates and the work does not.

I don't think you can over tighten with just your hands the tailstock on a quality lathe and quality tail center on bowl or hollow form blank.
Some would disagree but that is the purpose of the machine.

Turning a thin stemmed goblet and you can't tighten at all.

Al
 
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Question. Why does the big bite have to center? If it grabs the wood isn't that all that's necessary. After all you might just shift the wood after turning a few minutes so it wouldn't matter if there is a center spur on the bit, or if it's centered in the chuck for that matter. I use a 3 point drive center that I built using a 1 1/4 inch nut. Drilled 3 holes and then turned 3 pins to fit the holes and sharpened the pins. I think I made the pins a little too long. If I do it again I'll consider making them screw adjustable for height.

Thank you for your trime.
I believe that there are situations in which you must pivot on the center of the drive and move the point of the tailstock in order to reach symmetry. I post a photo in which I had to wedge the face plate in order to reach this.
 

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You need to tighten the tailstock often when turning between centers.
I turn a lot of green wood.
Generally I never have to tighten a chuck grip on a tenon there isn't any force that causes the tenon to move in the chuck.
I never have to tighten screws in a faceplate

Turning a thin stemmed goblet and you can't tighten at all.

Al

Thank you.
I do not tighten the chuck jaws too much. I found that this prevents ruining the tenon or the inset but occasionally i check the jaws and give them a little turn till I fell is OK. The only times I had a problem with holding a big blank was due to over tightening the jaws. Big, common, mistake.

Here are some pictures of thin stem goblets made with a 1/2 gouge. 17 inch the highest at 1/8 inch stem. No problems with over tightening the quill.
 

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